Poltergust
Member
Is it bad to say that I'm surprised that they know how to use a computer like that?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Extremist Militia Occupies Federal Building In Oregon
- Thread starter jmood88
- Start date
- Status
Is it bad to say that I'm surprised that they know how to use a computer like that?
eu pfhor ia
Neo Member
Oh, and at least 6 Republican legislators have visited the site
Anyone want to take bets on who the first Repub. candidate to start promoting them will be? 2016 is gonna be fun, I can feel it!
Anyone want to take bets on who the first Repub. candidate to start promoting them will be? 2016 is gonna be fun, I can feel it!
but what if somebody gets hurt ;_;
Chie Satonaka
Member
I'm not sure how much more disgusted I can be at this point.
Washington would've whiskey rebellioned their asses.Did he drive up in his challenger?
Tallshortman
Member
What's wrong with a Waco response? Waco had women and children, it's all occupiers as far as I've read. If these militants want to die, then let them.
So now people already with large amounts of land should get more free land?
So now people already with large amounts of land should get more free land?
Well they are anti government. They just get payed by the government.
Uhhhhh naw man. Cmon.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Isn't needed. Cut these people completely off. No more media, no more utilities, no more supplies in and out. No more 5 mile joy rides in Government vehicles. Actually wait them out.
Tallshortman
Member
The government keeps backing down, militias will continue to do this. Is there anything approaching a red line at this point?
I mean if they actually siege them then yeah fine, I'm not saying the only option is to storm it. At this point they're doing jack shit. They can continue indefinitely.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Quite amazed they just let these folks do what they want..quite amazed.
Black Republican
Member
metalslimer
Member
I wish I was amazed.
EatinOlives
Member
Now they're destroying stuff, and using the Fish and WIldlife's own equipment to do it.
http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/oregon_standoff_bundy_militant.html
This has officially gone past "subdued, measured handling of the situation" straight into "officials have given up, they can do whatever they want, it's theirs and they've won".
Amazing what being white gives you. Literally government representatives visit you and shake your hand for breaking the law. They go out of their way to let you restock. They give you free electricity.
Meanwhile, if you're black and dare point out that killing an unarmed man in your neighborhood prepare to have tear gas thrown at your kids and tanks in your neighborhood's streets within the day.
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
It's disgusting they are being allowed to get away with this for so long. What a disgrace.
Waco only increased the amount of domestic terrorist and anti-government militias in the US. A Waco response would be met with a more armed resistance that would only justify and give rise to more anti-government groups.
Well stated its amazing what you can get away with being white in America.
Glycemic Beg
Banned
If they were anything but white they'd already be dead. What. The. Fuck.
Chie Satonaka
Member
I watched this shit happen. I wasn't there, but I watched it live. I saw people in their own yards getting choked out with tear gas. I saw people getting snatched out of crowds by police officers. I saw guns pointed at non violent protesters. I felt sick to my stomach.
And then the realization came to me, just as it has many times before, just as it has to people I know, and people in generations past:
Watching it in real time is even more disgusting, but there's no reason for anyone to be surprised at what's happening here.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
So the whole "they're only getting away with this because they're white" narrative is still going strong, huh. No matter how many people point out that abuses against minorities are largely committed by local police departments, and that federal law enforcement agencies have strict regulations for dealing with situations like this in order to prevent Waco/Ruby Ridge-type scenarios (a fact important enough to have been included in my introductory sociology textbook in college), the narrative keeps plugging along. What is done to minorities in this country is truly appalling, on every level, but it doesn't really apply in this case, folks.
not a bug, is feature. wontfix
EatinOlives
Member
Sorry, calling a spade a spade.
The situation has been deferred to local authorities, who have proceeded to do nothing. Hell, they've done more than just nothing, they leave electricity on, move out of the way to let them restock, and invite media and onlookers to have a merry gander at the new attraction. Even just going by your arbitrary standards the response of local authorities is absolutely nowhere near the response of local authorities of Ferguson, Baltimore, or NYC.
There is simply no denying the reality of white privilege. You're cosplaying an ostrich if you genuinely believe race has no effect on this.
Probably because it's true.
The FBI isn't even fucking there. You're naive to think a minority group pulling the same exact shit wouldn't get a more drastic response
This is ....partially true but largely lol and dismissive.
Yeah, no one (I'm not talking about people, I'm talking about actual response dep, etc) wants another Waco. Awesome. Everyone acknowledges that.
But at the same time, you don't get that "no one wants another _____" when it comes to SWAT teams hitting the wrong house and killing people in their beds when it comes to police action. You can say its federal, state, or city level - the division and double standard is present at each.
Soooooo yeah, the narrative is gonna stay the course.
Premium Quality
Member
This is beyond disgusting at this point (speaking as a minority).
I'm calling out shenanigans. SHENANIGANS! SHENANIGANS!!
I'm calling out shenanigans. SHENANIGANS! SHENANIGANS!!
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
I don't deny the reality of white privilege. I deny that it's a particularly operant part of this news story, however, because A) cutting off their electricity and/or food in the middle of winter would essentially be besieging them, which I believe is illegal under international humanitarian law, B) denying the media access would only feed into these peoples' anti-government narrative, C) doing anything that would create any kind of violent conflict is pretty strictly against the government's policy for dealing with people like this specifically because nobody wants to see a bunch of people die, and D) letting this shit wither into obscurity and then arresting the perpetrators when they inevitably do give up due to public apathy to their cause is pretty clearly the best option.
Now, it's perfectly fair to argue that the media narrative would likely be drastically different, but counterfactually leaning on race as heavily as the left is in this case is just myopia, plain and simple, and will only play into the right-wing narrative of the left being outright anti-white, rather than pro-minority.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
how is doing nothing a tactic?
Captin Quacker
Member
As of now the biggest authoritative push back this occupation has seen is Sumed up in this picture
A) breh really? they pay rent in that motherfucker? stop it
B) no it wouldnt. it'd addressing the situation for what it is. hell, much smaller crimes still require law enforcement to cordon/keep media out. they're downright accommodating
C) no, its not. but i'm starting to see the trend of talking out your ass lol... do you even know why waco was shitty? its not because they were too slow to acquiesce in every way ... wtf
D)
....
the hell? lmao
what the fuck do these guys get paid to do if not stop federal buildings from being taken over?
they're literally not doing their job. at the very least they could pretend like they are.
EatinOlives
Member
That's the thing, though, they're actually not letting this wither into obscurity. Officials can't say with a straight face that they're trying to let it fade into obscurity if they're letting the media march in and out whenever they please, because giving a group media attention is literally the opposite of "fading into obscurity" by definition. The media will keep with this story the longer it goes on, because the longer it goes on the more batshit insane it gets. Doing nothing simply isn't a solution, and they know that. Now with all the hoopla there's literal Republican representatives giving them a visit. How exactly is this tactic working out in favor of letting them fade into obscurity? Just because barely anyone agrees with what they're doing doesn't mean they're not getting any attention.
You seem mistaken as to what is happening here. The Sheriff is enjoying media attention and is essentially getting praised from both sides of the spectrum. He looks good because he's not being "cruel" toward the guys, he looks good because he's being "a pacifist", the media like him for letting them trample all over the site like they own the place, and he doesn't have to worry himself with making any tough decisions, tossing the ball back at the higher levels of law enforcement. Said higher levels don't give a fuck. Once again, this isn't a "tactic". There's no plan here, long or short-term.
Hellwarden
Member
Law enforcement should wake local hibernating bears in the area, and unleash them on the Militia.
That'll take care of the problem.
That'll take care of the problem.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
A bunch of dummies occupying a nothing building in the middle of nowhere in the middle of winter do not merit a stern response. If I'm the feds, I let the toddlers have their tantrum for a few weeks, and see if the whole thing burns out in the face of public apathy and/or scorn. In all reality, they haven't been there THAT long, and while they are getting supplies and shit for now, I doubt those supply lines run particularly deep. If not, I reassess and consider a different strategy, but considering the smallness of the stakes, feeding into these peoples' persecution complex is the last thing I would want to do.
There is being cautious and then there is doing nothing. They are doing nothing.
They let them travel 5 miles with government property to destroy more government property. FIVE MILES.
These guys are doing what they want and getting treated with kids gloves.
Cut the power. Cut off access so more people and supplies can't get through. Keep this group contained to one place. They are leaving the door open for more idiot militia to come.
They let them travel 5 miles with government property to destroy more government property. FIVE MILES.
These guys are doing what they want and getting treated with kids gloves.
Cut the power. Cut off access so more people and supplies can't get through. Keep this group contained to one place. They are leaving the door open for more idiot militia to come.
Hellwarden
Member
Don't they still have kids and women there? And are heavily armed?
I'm sure they probably would have nuked the building from orbit if minorities did this, but still, I'd rather no one die.
EatinOlives
Member
And this doesn't send a message that more armed extremist militia can squat in unoccupied government facilities because...?
It's an alternative to a situation like Waco which is fuel a for a lot of whackos who say they need to overthrow the government. Eventually they'll wither give up or do something dumb enough to provoke a response.
They are not letting them occupy a building. They are letting them roam freely. They can come and go as they want. It is a joke.
Its not an either/or situation at all lol
do nothing ...... WACO MASSACRE
no. that doesn't even make sense.
they'd "wither up" a lot faster if guys were proactive about that as a goal. its not though, because they aren't doing shit at all
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
If they get nothing of what they want in terms of concessions, are roundly scorned by everybody but the extreme far right/libertarian bubble media, and the ringleaders end up in jail whenever this shit does fizzle out, why would anybody replicate their failure? And even if they do, is having far-right domestic extremists blow their criminal wad on low-stakes bullshit all that bad, considering how much of a threat the FBI says they are and how much worse it could be? These people caught the country by surprise and are playing up their 15 minutes as much as they can, but the media will move on to something else, soon enough, as they always do, leaving them sitting in a building with nothing to do and nowhere to go. It's not hard for me to see why the feds might see that as a better option than choosing to play their game and feed into the delusion that spawned this in the first place.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
doing nothing emboldens these militias, criminals which is what they are, to act in the future if they feel any perceived slights from the government. Tea party rose because people dared to vote a black man into office. it is absolute bullshit to say that you don't want to attack them because it might create future militants when half a world away we are doing the very same thing with foreign people.
Captin Quacker
Member
and who exactly is scorning them?
They're getting away with trashing and occupying some public/government property in the middle of nowhere. Occupy Wall Street got away with it for 3 months, so a week doesn't seem particularly disgusting
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
Who in the media or in politics have actually voiced support for this action? A few no-name Republicans have sniffed around to see if they can get some press from this and play to the wing-nut base, a few centrist writers have said that there is maybe some truth to the idea that government bureaucracy has fucked with ranchers more than is tolerable, etc., but largely, the response to this action has been that it is bullshit and that these guys are clowns, at best, and violent terrorists who the government should commit Waco-like actions against, at worst.
Edit: And yes, they have been there for a week. Is it possible the government wants to wait and see if this thing actually has any legs before committing a bunch of resources and manpower to stopping something that is currently inconveniencing only a few FWS workers while building a strong legal case against anti-government extremists who are publicly committing crimes with reckless abandon?
So... when do we hand over Air Force One so they can travel to D.C. to have a sit down with the president? I mean if they can travel wherever they please in gov't property, why not?
Pretty sure at this point they won't go to jail unless they decide to occupy one; in which case we'd hand them the keys and let them run the place.
Pretty sure at this point they won't go to jail unless they decide to occupy one; in which case we'd hand them the keys and let them run the place.
EatinOlives
Member
I mean, they're delusional. Delusion is what drove them to go on this entirely pointless crusade thinking they're making a difference. They're going to claim victory no matter what. It's no secret that right-wing extremists live in a bubble, all they need is the approval of this small minority for them to feel vindicated (and they do). Anyone who tries to emulate isn't going to be looking to win over the opinion of the country either. I don't know why you think this is such a key part of their plan when it clearly isn't.
Right now the only message any authority is sending them and anyone who thinks like them is that if they genuinely believe they have a right to unused government land and if they take up arms against the tyrannical government, that they are exercising their right to re-appropriate the land as they see fit. That government will see they are in the right and will step out of the way. They didn't do this to gain attention and widespread support across the country. Hell, the people they CLAIMED they were representing already denounced this occupation.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
And if the government cuts them off, cuts their power, etc. they will have "proof" of Big Brother squashing righteous patriots fighting for their freedom, perhaps emboldening future extremists to go even further because obviously this wasn't enough. These people have a narrative in their head that they contort things that happen to fit. There's no 'good' outcome because literally the sheer fact of having done this was a victory unto itself for these people, no matter what happened next, so they might as well let these people make jackasses of themselves letting guys in George Washington costumes do photo ops and see if the whole thing fizzles out when the media eventually moves on from it. If not, then obviously a new strategy will be warranted, but as a taxpayer, I'd rather see fewer resources committed to low-stakes bullshit like this until it's clear that that is necessary and proper.
Captin Quacker
Member
and that's all it takes to galvanizing them
the Hammonds have already come out and said they were against this at this point they're just going to keep doing whatever they want until someone steps in
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked