CollectedDust
Member
As others have said and / or alluded to, I'm not sure GameStop can be considered an unbiased source for this type of information.
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PS VR has the strongest games lineup according to GameStop CEO
- Thread starter Get_craycray
- Start date
Clockwork5
Member
That statement coming from the CEO of GameStop makes my grin a bit.
But... I can't say I disagree. Rigs, Rez, GT, Giant Robot Golf (or whatever it's called) and Ace Combat get me excited for VR in a way that nothing on the other platforms have.
But... I can't say I disagree. Rigs, Rez, GT, Giant Robot Golf (or whatever it's called) and Ace Combat get me excited for VR in a way that nothing on the other platforms have.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
Care to explain?
The PS VR solution is arguably far more efficient in that rendering pipeline, for architectural reasons, than say OR.
As an example, the PC VR solutions need significantly larger render targets for the same IQ. or PSVR can better utilise re-projection, keeping its own fps down, because of the breakout box. and the sub-pixel superiority of the PSVR is important because the screen is so close to the eye.
That's not trying to say there is no difference between an ultra PC VR solution in terms of the quality of the final projected scene, but PS4 really is pushing hard against that minimum spec PC VR solution. And the HMD itself is very close in capability to OR and Vive.
BernardoOne, you were alluding that PSVR HMD is significantly weaker than OR or Vive and that that's why PS4 can render similar scenes.
This is only partially true. PC VR renders more pixels but displays them on screens with lower sub-pixel resolutions, so a reasonable proportion of that extra fill rate is to make up for a sub-par display.
PSVR can more easily get away with lower FPS, targeting 60, because of the hardware involved in the re-projection. It works well for orientation, not so well for positional, but is good enough. PC doesn't need this it has raw grunt, so targets 90 FPS instead.
PSVR has other tricks as well, such as using a hidden area mesh stencil equivalent.
Add up all the pixels PSVR is saving, and that's how it was able to render Unreal Showdown at "equivalent" quality (so Durante's comments in the other thread are right; and wrong, quarter the fill rate for almost the same quality)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8bREFpp2o8&feature=youtu.be&t=26m10s
The bottom line is that while I agree resolution and fps and fov are all very important, the PSVR HMD does a really good job on all of them, because of how Sony engineered it to the strngths of their platform, such that the final projection quality is up there with OR and Vive, an 8 instead of a 9 say, but in the same ball park.
And that's the point I was making, though as Durante point out, mangled my words a bit.
Hope this all makes sense
This is only partially true. PC VR renders more pixels but displays them on screens with lower sub-pixel resolutions, so a reasonable proportion of that extra fill rate is to make up for a sub-par display.
PSVR can more easily get away with lower FPS, targeting 60, because of the hardware involved in the re-projection. It works well for orientation, not so well for positional, but is good enough. PC doesn't need this it has raw grunt, so targets 90 FPS instead.
PSVR has other tricks as well, such as using a hidden area mesh stencil equivalent.
Add up all the pixels PSVR is saving, and that's how it was able to render Unreal Showdown at "equivalent" quality (so Durante's comments in the other thread are right; and wrong, quarter the fill rate for almost the same quality)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8bREFpp2o8&feature=youtu.be&t=26m10s
The bottom line is that while I agree resolution and fps and fov are all very important, the PSVR HMD does a really good job on all of them, because of how Sony engineered it to the strngths of their platform, such that the final projection quality is up there with OR and Vive, an 8 instead of a 9 say, but in the same ball park.
And that's the point I was making, though as Durante point out, mangled my words a bit.
Hope this all makes sense
crazysapertonight
Member
It is strange. Number of titles for PS VR seems not so big as for Oculus Rift, especially if talk about big games.
I've seen a few of you posts now, and suspect that you don't understand the full context of the stuff you copy paste. Some of it just doesn't do what you think it does. And when you even manage to call the Rift displays for "sub-par", and on top of that think the sub pixel configuration in the PSVR, and that Reprojection is some kind of silver bullet...it's.. well.. It's all kinds of odd really.
(With that said, PSVR is fine, Sony is doing all the right things that they should do from the circumstances they are in)
Why are you calling specific technical detail for "PCVR" anyway, Oculus, HTC and Sony are just three of the players in the market. What about the $299 1080p OSVR from Razer which targets lower end computers, and it's just one of many others.
This.
demigod
Member
Link to it being in retail in April? My Best Buy is pretty big and they don't even stock high end video cards. And the last time i had to rebuy a broken monitor, their top one was $299(i bought a $599 at exact store before this). If you're going to believe Luckey about not profiting at $599, do you honestly think retail will sell it at that exact same price?
Gear VR is cheap and mobile is now more popular than desktop at Best Buy.
Do you! that's quite a thing to say, and to back that up?
You can read my mind now? Again, examples; if you want to diss me, the courtesy of some attempt at proof would be appreciated.
This is nit-picking, you know full well what I mean. OR and Vive (presumably) will go for pentile displays, this is perfectly understandable, and its also reasonable to criticise the quality of the display, particularly because it is so close to the eye. It doesn't make the PSVR better overall, but it does alleviate to some extent the lower resolution.
They are not silver bullets. They are engineering choices made to to enhance the hmd based on the strengths and weaknesses of the platform. Which is exactly what Oculus and HTC have done as well. Re-projection and what they are doing with the breakout box was a really good choice for Sony; would it have been a good idea for HTC and OR, no, does it make PSVR at 60 FPS the same as Vive at 90 FPS, no, but it does help make up for it.
I think you have done me a disservice, I'm not unknowingly cutting and pasting. I'm trying to make the point, that in terms of what the PSVR is projecting, its within touching distance of OR and Vive, because of good engineering choices, in contradiction to what BernardoOne was stating.
Yes, so where is the argument? why diss me?
itchyass86
Member
I need to ask though - does Gamestop also open the PC game cases and store the actual disc at the front desk counter like the employees do for the console games?
blame space
Banned
source?BernardoOne said:
After using DK2 for a year this sounds kind of gross. I'm sure the PSVR wouldn't fall into DK2 territory but this writer has used both and I have only used DK2. If true though then I guess I can understand, I wasn't expecting miracles. Still on board though. Can't wait to have PSVR and a CV1/Vive in home to do a good comparison myself.
Shhh! The PC guys don't want to hear any of that nonsense!
Saucycarpdog
Member
GameStop CEO gives praise for the only VR that will be sold at GameStop.
News at 11.
News at 11.
blame space
Banned
you know you can buy an Alienware steam machine there right guys
Memorabilia
Member
Hehe Have to say I agree. Luckey was doing his best to channel Adam Orth and Don Mattrick during the launch...and the defense force was here with bells on.
Steam cards at retail? Lol that can't possibly be compared to what they make off of physical sales for consoles, especially the used game market. And I'm a "video game" guy, I dig my PC and my consoles.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Yes. They've dedicated a good 18" to PC.
Content or games?
blame space
Banned
are you guys saying not a lot of people buy PC games at retail anymore? you're kinda blowing my mind right now
They do, just not at Gamestop. I personally go to PC Barn.
So how do you know that then?
Neuromancer
Member
Do you know that for a fact, or are you just speculating?
Pretty damn good bet I'd say. Gamestop isn't well known for it's support for PC nowadays, especially niche peripherals.
Because the PC is an open platform that has VR stuff on it already, where the PS4 does not?
Cthulhu_Steev
Member
It won't have Rez: Infinite though, and that's all that matters.
Neuromancer
Member
But they sell Steam cards and gaming PCs, and in this very article they say they are interesting in selling PC HMDs.
Also I'm sure the hope for Gamestop (not to mention Sony, Valve and Facebook) is that VR isn't going to be a niche peripheral.
backbreaker65
Banned
Sony has been demoing the same damn demos for damn near a year. I don't how anyone could say Sony will have more content based on what supposed to be in development. Unless they are going to have a Sony VR event or something like that, I'm incline to only believe what I see.
xenorevlis
Member
It will definitely have more content, but not necessarily games, nor certified-for-release or completely stable stuff either. Nature of the PC game. Anything and everything can be thrown at the accessory, but the millions of computer variations out there mean it won't necessarily run correctly, or even be any good. The official Oculus stuff will, of course, be pretty legit!
Because of all the indie developers that have been working on projects with the dev kits for years now. Not to mention the games that already support the Rift dev kits like Elite
angerous and Project Cars. You'll also have injection drivers like VorpX that let you play any game in VR. There's going to be a lot available right away. Quality will be debatable of course but there will be a lot more to try.Bear Force One
Banned
It has RIGS and Rez.
Duh.
Duh.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Good video showing just how powerful VR can be to the casual audience. This video is of a lady using PSVR for the movie The Walk.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYhZEREhbsI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYhZEREhbsI
DangerMouse
Member
Demoing yes, since they've likely been waiting for the games to get closer to being ready before using them as demo material, but they've been announcing a ton of new games for it regularly, including at that last PSX (Rez, Ace Combat, Golem, etc.).
What do you think the point of the DK1 and the DK2 was..? Have you seen the existing size of the software library for these development kits?
Have you heard about something called VorpX..? I think it has at least 150 "AAA" games _today_ with VR supporting modes.
Did you know that the Rift has had native game support for a long time already? I played Alien Isolation in VR with my DK2 in 2014.. How about Assetto Corsa, Elite Dangerous, even Project Cars, Dirt Rally, has VR support, today.
Did you know that games on PC even has unofficial VR support via user mods, like Richard Burns Rally, which has even better VR support than many official projects out there.
So it's not a radical or offensive idea that PCVR will have a huge library, it's expected because that's just how the scene is.
cheezcake
Member
Alrighty, its becoming really annoying keeping on reading so much misinformation about VR, and PSVR for whatever reason has the most FUD surrounding it. So here goes.
1. "Far more efficient in the rendering pipeline". That's an incredibly interesting spin. Would you call XB1 games that run at 900p " far more efficient in the rendering pipeline" than their PS4 1080p counterparts?
2. "Need significantly larger rendering targets for the same IQ". This is just untrue. The render targets are larger because Oculus and Vive want are going for a better VR experience, higher resolutions, higher framerates.
3. "or PSVR can better utilise re-projection, keeping its own fps down, because of the breakout box." For the umpteenth time, the breakout box does nothing except some spacial audio processing and video splitting. These are CPU tasks, and are largely irrelevant on any gaming PC as the CPUs are an order of magnitude faster. And also, for the umpteenth time, reprojection is not PSVR exclusive Sony magic. It has existed in the Oculus SDK for years, Carmack pioneered its development. It also has limitations, significant ones. Which is probably why Sony recently reccomended devs to hit 90fps, and use 60fps as a fallback.
4."the sub-pixel superiority of the PSVR is important because the screen is so close to the eye." This is true. But sub-pixels do not encode information, the strip config reduces SDE compared to an equivalent resolution pentile. From CES reports it seems that PSVR and CV1 have quite similar amounts of SDE, but the PSVR has noticeably lower resolution.
1. "PSVR can more easily get away with lower FPS, targeting 60, because of the hardware involved in the re-projection." There is no extra hardware either used or required in reprojection.
2. "It works well for orientation, not so well for positional, but is good enough. PC doesn't need this it has raw grunt, so targets 90 FPS instead."
It works perfectly for rotational, it doesn't work at all for any translational movement without getting disocclusion issues. "Good enough" depends on how its used, a 90 native with 90 reprojection is good because it reduces perceived latency. A 60->90 reprojection results in either artefacting, or if you turn off translational movement information for the repro step, poorer in game tracking.
3. "Hidden area stencil mesh equivalent". A Valve dev talked about that early last year and using it with Vive. Any software solution will be shared among all VR headset developers. PDF presentation for completeness.
4. "Add up all the pixels PSVR is saving, and that's how it was able to render Unreal Showdown at "equivalent" quality"
Again. Equivalent quality in this case means equivalent graphical settings. At lower resolution and framerates. Those are two very important factors when it comes to a good VR experience.
5. "the PSVR HMD does a really good job on all of them, because of how Sony engineered it to the strngths of their platform, such that the final projection quality is up there with OR and Vive, an 8 instead of a 9 say, but in the same ball park."
Sony has really made one good decision that isn't even used as a strength but rather to counter a weakness, the strip subpixel pattern. From a technical perspective there is no other feature of PSVR which positively differentiates it from the Rift or the Vive Pre. I'm not saying PSVR is bad, by all accounts it still offers a good experience, but the misinformation surrounding it is mind boggling. And from CES impressions, in comparison to the CV1, there is a very noticeable difference in quality.
Games. The Rift already has hundreds of games that support it. No other set has even close to the support that the Rift has. Everything from Doom to GTA5 has Rift support.
wanderingprostheyltite
Member
To be clear gta v support is only driver injected, and does NOT have full geometry 3d, it uses a different method that's much less taxing on hardware. Basically don't expect the experience to look nearly as compelling as a native vr title.
MisterAnderson
Member
Serious question: How viable is Playstation VR even going to be? To get a great VR experience I thought 90 frames per second is the minimum requirement. Console games still struggle to get 60 FPS.
Neuromancer
Member
That's because developers currently put their efforts into making games look as good as possible and not into making games 60fps. It's a design decision more than anything else. PS4 is capable of running games at 60fps when developers choose to target it and with VR, developers will have to make the effort.
I think we need some kind of myth busting thread or something for all of these kinds of issues. I can understand why people think that 60fps is an issue etc.
People don't seem to get that developers who are NOT developing for VR might want to push the hardware to get the best looking games out, and they often do it and are happy to let a few dropped frames here and there, or worse, enter the experience. With VR your framerate is of the utmost importance. PS4 can happily output 60fps and indeed even 120fps, IF developers reign in their push for pure graphics and instead make performance their No.1 priority, which with VR they must do.
The graphics the PS4 can push at a solid 60fps isn't necessarily the backwards step many expect it to be. Just look at The Last Of Us Remastered and Star Wars Battlefront (admittedly not native 1080p but not too far off). Both of those games run at a pretty decent 60fps most of the time and look pretty damn good. It's not the PS2 level graphics some people make it out to be and they're still better than PS3 games, easily.
Will it beat an absolutely high end PC.. of course not, but then neither does any console of the day up against a high end PC at the time. The experience is not that drastically far behind as to be of too much concern.
Most importantly getting a good sense of presence doesn't rely on full on photo-realism, but can be achieved even with the simplest of graphics anyway. Photo-realistic VR will come eventually, and yeah PC will probably be pushing their first (but with seriously niche pricey equipment with little incentive for devs to actually make content for that niche until the tech gets much cheaper for the consumer)... but that doesn't mean that somehow the VR PSVR has been showing off for over a year now isn't still very VERY impressive tech to your average consumer. Only if you can afford high end PC's and high end VR units might it begin to disappoint, but that's like saying 720p looked poor vs 1080p when most people were still on 480p CRT's and 720p would blow most people's socks off at the time. I'd say that's about where PSVR will find itself. And like with HDTV's many many people were very happy with 720p for quite a while.
That was fn awesome!
crazysapertonight
Member
Very good and intresting information. Thanks.
Rising_Hei
Member
To me, having killer apps is much more important than anything, if the rest just get "adaptations" from normal games and not many VR exclusive experiences, they will fail
Just having "support" is no good
Just having "support" is no good
N30RYU
Member
The important thing is that PSVR, Oculus and Rift reach to the more ppl as possible since is an experience that needs to be experienced to really feel it, I hope Sony use a lot of stand and show floor demos at retail stores to make as a horse troyan and open the market.
As soon as I get my PSVR I'll show it to all the PS4 users and friends with gaming PCs I know.
As soon as I get my PSVR I'll show it to all the PS4 users and friends with gaming PCs I know.
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