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PvZ Garden Warfare 2 Beta Thread: Get Back To Your Roots
- Thread starter ElzarTheBam
- Start date
Flintty
Member
I know there are certain classes/tactics that can counter the imp but the fact that the vast majority of players my kids and I have come across are imps is extremely telling. I can definitely see them getting nerfed if the class is over used. I hate the little bastards. Their damage output is high, they are small, fast and agile (making them difficult to hitt) and that's even before they get their titan.
FriedConsole
Banned
I agree with this. It is too chaotic. Not as much fun for me. Seems like the supers are refreshed at a faster rate.
ElzarTheBam
Member
I heard the super cooldowns were sped up for the beta.
But I can't find any solid confirmation on this.
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
Annoying when I join a match with a friend and it still throws me in the enemy team, it says unable to join group or something. It even happens if we both are in the same team.
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
That's the spinning and shooting power? Yeah it's very overpowered. Gardens and Graveyards is indeed really fine.
I don't get the complaints about the imps and their mechs, as they trade the advantage of being tiny and annoying as hell to hit to a big target that everyone within eye shot will focus fire on and rip to shreds within 5 seconds. The most dangerous thing with the imps are their grenades. Just get behind your target and throw one of these at them and its basically a free kill or two. Seems like theres zero cooldown on it after death unlike the other abilities either so it feels like im using it every other second.
Chronospherics
Member
I really don't understand the complaints about the imps. Every time I see an imp not inside a mech I just look as them as a free kill. How are people having difficulty with them?
Impkala only attacks enemies at ground level, so if an imp is spinning near you just jump away. The Rose can jump high enough to avoid it, or goat them out of it, Citron can stun him out of it, Peashooters can jump away, Chomper can Burrow, and Cornel Corn can use his jumping ability which will usually kill the imp, and at the very least, get you away from him.
The only characters that really have trouble with them up close at Sunflowers and Cactus, but given the Imps 50 health it's very easy to simply kill them before they get close to you.
Mechs are a big target and die within seconds of focused fire. While classes with even decent mobility has a really easy time running circles around them, a Rose or Peashooter should be able to win a 1 vs 1 with a mech and Citrons put up a very good fight too. Ultimately though as I say, they're supposed to be focus fired down. They're a limited use ability so they offer a little more power, for a limited time, and in turn they are designed to require more attention of your team to destroy, during that time.
One thing that is annoying about imps though, because they all start at the same time, their cooldowns all start at the same time. So if you have 6 imps on the opposing team, then those 6 imps will use their mechs for the first few times, at roughly the same time. That makes the first few gardens/graveyards kind of annoying to play at times, as it feels as though you have 6 of these mechs attacking you at roughly the same time. Makes focus fire difficult when they are all synchronised like that.
Impkala only attacks enemies at ground level, so if an imp is spinning near you just jump away. The Rose can jump high enough to avoid it, or goat them out of it, Citron can stun him out of it, Peashooters can jump away, Chomper can Burrow, and Cornel Corn can use his jumping ability which will usually kill the imp, and at the very least, get you away from him.
The only characters that really have trouble with them up close at Sunflowers and Cactus, but given the Imps 50 health it's very easy to simply kill them before they get close to you.
Mechs are a big target and die within seconds of focused fire. While classes with even decent mobility has a really easy time running circles around them, a Rose or Peashooter should be able to win a 1 vs 1 with a mech and Citrons put up a very good fight too. Ultimately though as I say, they're supposed to be focus fired down. They're a limited use ability so they offer a little more power, for a limited time, and in turn they are designed to require more attention of your team to destroy, during that time.
One thing that is annoying about imps though, because they all start at the same time, their cooldowns all start at the same time. So if you have 6 imps on the opposing team, then those 6 imps will use their mechs for the first few times, at roughly the same time. That makes the first few gardens/graveyards kind of annoying to play at times, as it feels as though you have 6 of these mechs attacking you at roughly the same time. Makes focus fire difficult when they are all synchronised like that.
KatamariOnTheRocks
Member
It's funny how you refuse to listen to what I've been saying until it applies to you.
Did you stop to think that this was what I meant when I said people are approaching the game incorrectly and then blaming the game for their mistakes?
By your incorrect logic they should remove the Imp from the game entirely since no one is willing to use the classes that are designed to counter it.
So what's the coolest/weirdest character variant you've come across? I just got attacked in the backyard battleground by a shrimp imp mech.
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Bessy67/video/13961182
Edit: We're allowed to post videos, right? I don't remember any kind of NDA...
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Bessy67/video/13961182
Edit: We're allowed to post videos, right? I don't remember any kind of NDA...
BananasWithGuns
Member
Yeah, you are. If you weren't the clips wouldn't show up publicly or be shareable.
Doesn't seem like it. Every time I go to the garage it just says it's not available in the beta.
Chronospherics
Member
I didn't say I thought the class had particular hard counters I listed means in which every character can deal with the imp, the 50hp limitation means that every character shouldn't have a problem with the Imp. The sunflower and Cactus are the only characters I left of the list with very easy ways to deal with the Imp, but the Cactus and Sunflower have their own means of tackling the issue. Sunflowers are support characters, intended to support, other teammates, team mates who can deal with the imp very capably. Cactus are not front line characters, they should not be being harassed by imps, and have ample opportunity to kill them before they get close. The final 3 bullets of the Zen Cactus' magazine deal over 50 damage, one shotting an imp before he even gets close. Ultimately, I didn't have a problem with what you were saying on a particular balance issue. I took issue with your effort to dismiss others opinions because they were 'bad at learning'.
Just because I do not understand others complaints about things like the Imp, does not mean I would dare be rude enough to propose that their opinion is invalid because they are 'not as good as me at the game', which is entirely the way your previous post comes across.
Additionally, have you ever stopped to think that because you are good at the game, in some ways it makes our perspective less valid? In some cases, being good at the game allows us to mediate balance issues that are in fact present, causing them to appear less pervasive. For example, just because I can kill 90% of Zen Cactus's with Deadbeard, doesn't mean the scenario is unfavourable and that people just need to 'learn how to play'.
You didn't even answer my question either. I asked what you were competitive at? You said you were a competitive player, you can't seriously be talking about PVZ? You throw around words like this arbitrarily, as if your thoughts are more important because you're 'competitive'. It's childish and counter-conducive to constructive and entertaining discourse. How would you like to be told your opinion isn't relevant because your 'bad at learning' and 'not competitive'?
If you were genuinely invested in helping Popcap make this game a better experience you would spend your time providing critical insight while nurturing the opinions of others, not attempting to invalidate on the basis of you being 'better at the game'. I may agree with you on a particular balance issue (I don't feel that Imps are overpowered), but I in no way agree with your frankly toxic approach to constructive discourse.
Overall enjoyed the beta but was annoyed at first how seemingly overpowered the Imp was, but after playing for awhile I have to applaud the fact that all characters are well balanced.
Even though the Imp still has high HP in mech form it's still sluggish and you can easily maneuver around it; especially so with the Peashooter.
As for Zombies being OP in Team Vanquish I'll have to disagree as I've been in multiple situations when it was me VS the rest of the team due to shoddy matchmaking. Had no problem taking care of that with Peashooter.
The main thing you need to worry about in Garden Warfare is to always be moving and in the case of Peashooter, save your Gatling thing for Mechs as it takes them out swiftly.
Having unlocked everything and played in excess of 100 hours of the first Garden Warfare I can honestly say this is an improvement over that one in every way except, perhaps, HP regen. ( which is still very slow and not an issue )
Even though the Imp still has high HP in mech form it's still sluggish and you can easily maneuver around it; especially so with the Peashooter.
As for Zombies being OP in Team Vanquish I'll have to disagree as I've been in multiple situations when it was me VS the rest of the team due to shoddy matchmaking. Had no problem taking care of that with Peashooter.
The main thing you need to worry about in Garden Warfare is to always be moving and in the case of Peashooter, save your Gatling thing for Mechs as it takes them out swiftly.
Having unlocked everything and played in excess of 100 hours of the first Garden Warfare I can honestly say this is an improvement over that one in every way except, perhaps, HP regen. ( which is still very slow and not an issue )
TuckingFypo
Member
The regen delay(?) at level 5 and maybe something at level 10. Other than that, I don't think so.
I don't think leveling your character will do anything in the actual game either. If it's like the last game, then all your character levels are added together to give your overall multiplayer level. You only get character upgrades through the sticker shop.
Chronospherics
Member
What level have you guys gotten up to in the beta? I'm 94 now. Tempted to do keep going, I guess you get the presitge thing at 100?
Not completely sure how I feel about this game yet, as someone who absolutely loves the first one. I can't even put my finger on why, necessarily. But for whatever reason the first one just looks and feels a lot better to play so far. I'm not too crazy about the maps in the beta either. The nighttime snow one is alright but the others that I have seen just don't really stand out to me much. I feel like I prefer the original classes to the new ones, and the tickrate still feels disappointingly low. The citron is kinda cool but I don't find beam weapons very fun to use. Sometimes it feels like there's a delay or at worse a complete lack of response to my button presses occasionally, particularly with citron's roll ability and it makes the game feel awful a lot of the time. And this seems to be present on both platforms, in my experience.
I'll be checking out the full game through the EA Access trial to see if things improve and if the additional content helps, but for now I'm not sure this is a day one for me. I also don't know what platform to get it on, either. I played the original entirely on PS4 so I'll have a lot of stuff to carry over, but then I'll have 10 hours of stuff from the EA Access trial. I have an Elite controller which I really enjoy using, but I also like PS4's higher resolution and better performance in the beta (hopefully we get a locked 60 on both in the final). May have an extra friend or two on Xbox as well. Meh, whatever.
This game is a firm maybe so far. I really do hope that I end up loving it, though. The 1st is one of my favorite MP games.
I'll be checking out the full game through the EA Access trial to see if things improve and if the additional content helps, but for now I'm not sure this is a day one for me. I also don't know what platform to get it on, either. I played the original entirely on PS4 so I'll have a lot of stuff to carry over, but then I'll have 10 hours of stuff from the EA Access trial. I have an Elite controller which I really enjoy using, but I also like PS4's higher resolution and better performance in the beta (hopefully we get a locked 60 on both in the final). May have an extra friend or two on Xbox as well. Meh, whatever.
This game is a firm maybe so far. I really do hope that I end up loving it, though. The 1st is one of my favorite MP games.
ElzarTheBam
Member
Leveling up is now different from GW1, all character upgrades are attained through leveling up rather than unlocking them through the sticker shop.
At level 4, you unlock health regeneration upgrade, at level 8 you unlock a zoom upgrade.
Prestige thing? I'm at 87 now but the characters I enjoy playing are maxed, so idk if I'll level more.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
Feels a lot like the first game, but just with more shit. I'll probably just stick to the old game after the beta is over.
Chronospherics
Member
Yeah I've seen someone with a different scoreboard icon next to their name, then their rank appears to be reset back to 1 again.
I mean, I know the beta resets anyway, so it's meaningless... but might as well do it if I enjoy playing anyway.
Yeah it kinda sucks since it takes up a quest slot to use and you can't finish it :\
ElzarTheBam
Member
Yeah I've seen someone with a different scoreboard icon next to their name, then their rank appears to be reset back to 1 again.
I mean, I know the beta resets anyway, so it's meaningless... but might as well do it if I enjoy playing anyway.
Curios, didn't think you could do that in the beta.
I get the impression it's just a full character unlock that - yes - you can get through normal sticker purchases in the main game. Unlike the Z7 skin which they mention by name, they don't say what skins you get with the deluxe version, so basically you're spending $10 on in game items the get a bit of a head start.
moai
Member
Thanks. Same impression i got. Its not worth it then.
Yeah, I just reread the Amazon description:
So basically one character unlock, 2 sets of appearance items, and a bunch of coins. All earnable through normal play.
On topic, I was also a bit lukewarm at first and had many of the same initial impressions as others, but last night it finally clicked with me. I had been focusing primarily on the new classes and struggling to understand their abilities, but then switched to the engineer and immediately felt at home again. Getting killed by an All-Star sporting blonde pigtails and wearing a dirty gym sock for a mask sealed the deal: it still has the same charm and goofiness that I loved with the original, and will just take some time to learn the new classes and maps.
KatamariOnTheRocks
Member
I've been asking people what classes they're having trouble with so I can help them out and save them the frustration of trial and error experimenting as you did with the Imp. There is a class with means for taking out each class, so people shouldn't jump straight to claiming characters are broken before understanding that they aren't broken, they have pros and cons that balance them properly and there is already a method in place for dealing with them in the form of counter classes.
You're choosing to take something that isnt a personal situation as something personal. Just because people like myself are quicker to adapt to this particular game doesnt mean I think everyone else is automatically shit. It means that I can get to the point of understanding the meta game sooner than other people, so if a typical player in the beta only has the option of playing strategic/tactical game modes and has to get a hang of the game before understanding how to counter specific enemies, they wont be having fun until the game clicks for them when playing game modes that rely on understanding the meta. All im saying is that the game will click for everyone once you get the hang of it, but if people go head first into a mode that requires a particular strategy and disregard that necessary strategy, of course they wont do well and wont have fun. I'm not frustrated that people are "bad at learning" because they aren't, I'm frustrated that people are writing it off before giving it a fair shot.
Absolutely not, in fact the opposite is true. Because I'm good at the game I can understand the deep array of possibilities for each character and see the potential that others quickly disregard. That potential is there and achievable for any player that enjoys the game and sticks around to learn the depth of the meta.
I play Garden Warfare 1 competitively with a group of local players similar to fighting game meetups. I regularly do the best and consider myself one of the best Garden Warfare players I've encountered. If you think you're somehow more qualified to speak about the game because you're worse at it than me then I don't see where you're coming from. I have more time, experience, and understanding of the game than you do so I don't see why your knee jerk criticisms should hold more weight than someone like myself that has actual reason to be listened to.
You mean like by offering to help anyone thats having issues, as I have been? Or by writing up a long list of the pros/cons of everything I've encountered in the beta once its over as I told you I would back here? http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=192382847&postcount=562
Also have to say it's funny that you accuse me of "spending my time attempting to invalidate other opinions on the basis of being 'better at the game'" while you spend your time attempting to invalidate my opinion for that very reason instead of spending your time learning the game so you can have a clue of what you're talking about.
BlackHeron
Neo Member
Just made a video with a friend, and we show how you can easily deal with an Imp/Mech:
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcIVcQXmIHk
Splash damage is key!
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcIVcQXmIHk
Splash damage is key!
Excellent video. I actually started laughing when I saw the sunflower clip because it couldnt have been a more perfect showcase of imp murder.
OdysseusVA
Banned
Can you use any of them in the beta? I've unlocked a few but they're not available to equip.
Imps as it sits is one of the better classes in the game. The only thing i would change was its CC. Outside of that its just a high dps squishy. '
It also really doesn't matter if their is counters to it either. If the community complains. Its going to get nerfed.
The overall biggest issue is plants don't feel on par with zombies. I really hope some of the plant variations are better in the full game. Otherwise i'll just be backing out when i'm on the plants team like so many people are in the beta
It also really doesn't matter if their is counters to it either. If the community complains. Its going to get nerfed.
The overall biggest issue is plants don't feel on par with zombies. I really hope some of the plant variations are better in the full game. Otherwise i'll just be backing out when i'm on the plants team like so many people are in the beta
Chronospherics
Member
Right, a local, competitive garden warfare community. I have heard it all. The experiences from one individual from an isolated, and apparently local competitive community are supposed to give value to your argument in what way exactly? How do we know of the ability of those you are playing with? Isolated local communities are typically terrible, and as there is no money to play for in this game it seems very unlikely that the highest levels of play have ever shown themselves. More of the problem would be that this community is apparently, unseen though. It hardly suggests a competitive atmosphere is likely to be present if 99% of the people playing the game, are not invited or even aware of said, local competitive community.
Additionally, how do you even set this game up locally? you cannot even do private games as far as I know? and you can't do LAN... so how do you guys even play?
As for me, I didn't say if I was good or bad at the game you've inferred that onto me. You've assumed I'm worse than you because that's what your ego affords, though of course, we have nothing to suggest whether that's true, or not. Either way you've already suggested you possess an awareness that everyone here is worse at the game than you, so there's no purpose in me arguing it. I don't know if I'm worse, or better at the game than you, but I certainly don't perform poorly on the online multiplayer.
Every class has a means of taking out each class, telling people to play another class that has a hard counter isn't exactly helping them. The Cactus that keeps getting killed by the Imp doesn't have a hard counter, but he probably does have something fundamental to his playstyle that affords the imp that persistent advantage (i.e he probably needs to adjust his playstyle to orientate himself away from the front-lines and flanks that the imps frequent).
You made the assumption that you are quicker to adapt and better at learning that everyone else here, no one said that they didn't like something because they were having trouble adapting, you inferred that onto their opinion as a way of discrediting it. Sorry we're not as good as your local competitive garden warfare community.
I didn't make anything personal, you chose to bring in arbitrary, unrelated personal facts to support your argument, and now you're complaining that I'm making it personal? Don't be so silly.
I think it's important to place consideration on the thoughts of all perspectives, from all types of players. It's a shame that you cannot see that. Just because every character might have the potential to do something doesn't always mean that that utility is as accessible as it perhaps should be (depend-ending on the particular context we're discussing).
Personally, I find it hard to discern gameplay balance sometimes in a game where half of the audience appear to have difficulty retaining a grasp of the controller, let alone their in-game character. Relating back to my example, my first perception is that the Zen Cactus is a little overpowered, but I'm aware that that perception is partially influenced by the fact that the majority of the community are either disorientated or not especially good at the game. So then, how does one discern balance? The Zen Cactus certainly is overpowered in an environment where most players either stand still, or run around like a headless chicken, with little tact in between but in a competitive environment where characters are played to their potential as you suggest, the outcome of any particular character is unclear, and all you can do is infer your ideas of performance within such an environment. Yet, despite such a necessitated process of inference rather than real testing at a high level of play, your own, individual thoughts are purported as infallible.
Man, I don't know why Popcap bothered with this beta. They should have just hired you instead, rolled out a new trailer, and let you and your competitive, local PVZ community play the game in isolation. None of us incapable learners deserve this experience.
You haven't done that yet though, all you have done is say ever so matter of factually that that there are "no significant balance issues in the beta". As if you are some form of authority on the topic. Then instead of placing consideration on their opinions, you effectively told them that they were wrong, and should seek your advice if they want consultancy on playing the game.
I didn't attempt to invalidate your opinion on the game. I don't know where you got this from. I told you that there is value in everyone's opinion and your unsupported claims of being the only 'competitive garden warfare player here' and being 'better at learning' than everyone that disagrees with you, does not make your opinion more significant than everyone else. You are welcome to form your own opinion, but in mine, discrediting on the basis of them being 'worse than you', doesn't fly. At best it's merely rude, at worst it's counter condusive to a creating a thread that supports a diverse array of perspectives and thoughts on the game, stifles stimulating discussion and is actively toxic to this threads existence.
Chronospherics
Member
Splash damage is good but you can also just hit them, then they go down pretty fast.
I thought the clip where you had a peashooter shooting the mech, with the mech doing nothing, was pretty funny. Why on earth did he decide to use his mech time, and almost all of its health to revive a single player? Haha.
I liked the video and subscribed.
Whatever that mode is called.
Messing around on Plants... team stomped.
Messing around on Zombies... team stomped.
Messing around on Plants... team stomped.
All right. Time to bring out the old stand bys. Join Zombies. Pick Engineer. Build Teleporter. Defend Teleporter. We win!
I remembered why I had such an admiration for this game. Even though I hate interactive menus I like what they did with this one. I wish more of the games I purchased had... I don't want to be negative. So far I like what the group has done again. Top notch stuff.
Messing around on Plants... team stomped.
Messing around on Zombies... team stomped.
Messing around on Plants... team stomped.
All right. Time to bring out the old stand bys. Join Zombies. Pick Engineer. Build Teleporter. Defend Teleporter. We win!
I remembered why I had such an admiration for this game. Even though I hate interactive menus I like what they did with this one. I wish more of the games I purchased had... I don't want to be negative. So far I like what the group has done again. Top notch stuff.
BlackHeron
Neo Member
Splash damage is good but you can also just hit them, then they go down pretty fast.
I thought the clip where you had a peashooter shooting the mech, with the mech doing nothing, was pretty funny. Why on earth did he decide to use his mech time, and almost all of its health to revive a single player? Haha.
I liked the video and subscribed.
Thanks!
And, true. That was a dumb move on his part haha
By the way, really loving the game. There is just so much to learn, explore, study, experiment.
And thinking that this is just a beta makes me even more excited for the full game.
P.S. How pretty is this game? There are moments where I stop playing just to look at details on characters and maps.