When I was little I preferred MK1 and 2 over SF2 due to the shock value and I thought the digitized characters were neat. In hindsight, I was way wrong... the MK series is extremely stiff and rigid with terrible art direction. Vastly prefer SF, and nearly every person I know has SF or Smash Bros as their fighter of choice, don't really hear people talk much about MK anymore...
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Mortal Kombat vs Street Fighter, why is MK more popular in the US?
- Thread starter Doosi
- Start date
Casual to fighting games here and this pretty much sums it up. I'm from the UK and as far as I'm aware it's a split between MK and SF (anecdotally just to be clear). For me it's always MK due to brand loyalty; it was the first fighting game I had back on the Sega Megadrive 2. I do end up picking up SF games when they're on sale though.
FaintDeftone
Junior Member
For someone like me who is a casual fighting game fan, Mortal Kombat has always been a favorite of mine for several reasons. Mostly speaking for the last two entries.
1. The special moves are easier to pull off and easier to memorize.
2. The single player content in the last two made playing solo actually fun.
3. The online multiplayer seemed more robust with fun lobbies, factions and avatars.
4. The crypts are chock full of unlockables like costumes, concept art and other goodies. Unlocking them doesn't require you to complete a 400 man survival mode on the hardest difficulty or something crazy like that. Just play, earn coins and unlock.
5. The fantasy characters are fun and appealing.
6. The fatalities are fun to watch people squirm and laugh at how ridiculous they are.
Just some of my observations. I still haven't played a fighting game that had lobbies as awesome as Dead or Alive 4 on Xbox 360 though.
1. The special moves are easier to pull off and easier to memorize.
2. The single player content in the last two made playing solo actually fun.
3. The online multiplayer seemed more robust with fun lobbies, factions and avatars.
4. The crypts are chock full of unlockables like costumes, concept art and other goodies. Unlocking them doesn't require you to complete a 400 man survival mode on the hardest difficulty or something crazy like that. Just play, earn coins and unlock.
5. The fantasy characters are fun and appealing.
6. The fatalities are fun to watch people squirm and laugh at how ridiculous they are.
Just some of my observations. I still haven't played a fighting game that had lobbies as awesome as Dead or Alive 4 on Xbox 360 though.
20+ strings in MK? More like maximum 10. And the jumping normals in MK are pretty much generic. And most of the time do the same thing regardless of which kick button you press. In SF you have unique properties of each of the 6 buttons in both advancing/retreating jumps along with vertical. As for crouching the same thing applies in SF where each button corresponds to something unique. In MK the a crouch and a forward punch is always going to be an uppercut while a cr.HK in SF can be anti-air, a sweep, or even an overhead. So yes, if you tally up all the strings, normals, etc. that MK has and compare that with tallying all the same for SF the difference is marginal.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
All this talk about combos is irrelevant. MK sells more in the US by appealing to casual fighting game players. Most of those folk aren't doing combos. They're mashing regular attacks and spamming specials and supers.
Special moves are simpler in MK as there generally aren't diagonals, 180 or 360s required. Supers are even easier with just pressing two buttons at once, vs say two quarter dickies and a button for a critical art in SFV.
That's what people mean by saying its more accessible for beginners. Both are complex at high levels of play, but that's irrelevant to overall sales as the more casual players drive that.
Special moves are simpler in MK as there generally aren't diagonals, 180 or 360s required. Supers are even easier with just pressing two buttons at once, vs say two quarter dickies and a button for a critical art in SFV.
That's what people mean by saying its more accessible for beginners. Both are complex at high levels of play, but that's irrelevant to overall sales as the more casual players drive that.
MegamanPoweredUP
Member
MK isn't a bad game. I didn't enjoy it but content was high quality except for story mode (and that silly X-ray thing too).
Story is very poor and it's not on par with the rest pf the content. It's like a funny taste in your otherwise favourite dish. It's something you're supposed to get over with but still doesn't feel right.
Sometimes less is more.
Imho fighting games characters have potential outside the videogame media (look at the SF II movie thread) and there's no need to waste them in a pointless narration made for the sake of content.
You can't have a direct storytelling in a fighting game. It just doesn't fit the arcade structure the game is born with.
Well, I don't know what to think. Maybe MK is more a competition thing than a popular thing in Europe.
You realize this is your subjective opinion, and most people are not only fine with MK's way of storytelling but it even got praised for it?
SpiceMelange
Member
Eh I just pulled out Subzero's page and he's got 16 strings. A far cry from maximum 10. And I'm not sure why you insist on pilling them with buttons, strings are much harder to memorize and as casual we have to bring up the command list over and over to keep them in our mind which is my initial complain, there aren't buttons.
DryEyeRelief
Member
It's not as if vanilla SF4 would have sold more overtime and the newer versions ate up the potential sales.
They are both so close in sales that its honestly stupid to say one is more over the other.
Physical Sales
SF - 36m
MK - 35m
Arcade Sales
SF2 - $4bn+
MK - $1bn+
Both are iconic and that mostly happened due to their immense Arcade popularity.
MK is more popular with the casual crowd because it has good SP content , And its relatively simpler for the casual masher ( who are the majority of buyers ) Press buttons for combos , Press a button to block. L2+R2 for cool X ray move.
I never actually saw a reason for casuals to pick up SF apart from Nostalgia. Its barebones content.
It did do a pretty good job of bringing a lot of casuals into the scene ( hence the 09er label many people have got). I think MK9 also did a good job making many casuals into FG players but not as much as SF4 did.
SF V sales will be interesting to see since its the first time SF is coming with so much content since Alpha 3.
Incorrect . SF4 would have had huge legs.
If what you are saying is true , Why did people buy 1m RETAIL copies of AE and 500k Retail copies of USF4 when they could have just updated their game?
The ONLY people i could see buy those are new buyers and tourney organizers and I dont think Tourney organizers would be more than a few hundred people.
Physical Sales
SF - 36m
MK - 35m
Arcade Sales
SF2 - $4bn+
MK - $1bn+
Both are iconic and that mostly happened due to their immense Arcade popularity.
MK is more popular with the casual crowd because it has good SP content , And its relatively simpler for the casual masher ( who are the majority of buyers ) Press buttons for combos , Press a button to block. L2+R2 for cool X ray move.
I never actually saw a reason for casuals to pick up SF apart from Nostalgia. Its barebones content.
It did do a pretty good job of bringing a lot of casuals into the scene ( hence the 09er label many people have got). I think MK9 also did a good job making many casuals into FG players but not as much as SF4 did.
SF V sales will be interesting to see since its the first time SF is coming with so much content since Alpha 3.
Incorrect . SF4 would have had huge legs.
If what you are saying is true , Why did people buy 1m RETAIL copies of AE and 500k Retail copies of USF4 when they could have just updated their game?
The ONLY people i could see buy those are new buyers and tourney organizers and I dont think Tourney organizers would be more than a few hundred people.
And strings are just a series of buttons. Is the amount of information so much bigger for a casual that you have to press 2 or 3 buttons in succession instead of 1? These numerous buttons in SF are usually more unique as well in SF which forces a new player to think about which button to use in certain situations while in MK those same fundamentals carry forward to the majority of the cast.
And again if we're speaking in casual terms these strings are intuitively designed to correspond to each limb similar to Tekken's input scheme. Hence as a casual it's pretty simple to re-enact the move just by going with the control scheme after initially looking at it.
And I'm also not understanding how "going to the movelist" is casual unfriendly? If you look at other casual games out there like the Naruto arena fighters and WWF wrestling games those involve looking at movelists as well.
And speaking of a casual again, it's easier too to do special moves in MK where the directional inputs are more lenient as well but that's aside from the current argument about the quantity.
MegamanPoweredUP
Member
Yes I do. I'm also aware that mine is an unpopular and salty opinion. Sure I'm going to lose every argoument against well informed people like you.
But man, talking about majority isn't the best way of describing what your point is. You're basically asking someone else to do the job for you.
I don't know about you, but pensée unique isn't my thing and I couldn't care less about awards some PR bought for their product.
SpiceMelange
Member
And how much strain does that one button induce on a casual where if you multiply that strain by 2 to 3 it becomes much harder and more complex compared to SF's system?
DryEyeRelief
Member
People don't buy old games. Gamestop doesn't hang them in the store, they aren't advertised. You're missing the entire point of why game companies do game of the year editions/whatever.. Or why they made so many different versions of sf2.
Yes, newer buyers. But you're making the assumption that those new buyers would have went out of their way to buy vanilla in the first place.
SpiceMelange
Member
shadowstar
Member
Fatalities and real looking vs cartoon characters (in the early games).
Casuals don't really get into the depth of any fighter, but they care about the superficial stuff. Whether one is more casual friendly than the other doesn't matter since they all mash anyway. They don't perceive one as having more depth than the other.
Casuals don't really get into the depth of any fighter, but they care about the superficial stuff. Whether one is more casual friendly than the other doesn't matter since they all mash anyway. They don't perceive one as having more depth than the other.
SpiceMelange
Member
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
The combos and other more advanced stuff aren't really. Nor are the totality of movelists.
But the basics that casual players use are simpler in MK. Special moves are almost all down/toward or down/back or back/toward or toward/back and one button. SF has diagonals involved, half and full circles etc. All stuff that trip up casuals more, and are harder to pull of on a pad.
Then you have things like the X-ray attack just being L2+R2, vs critical arts being 2x quarter circle plus a button.
Have you watched casuals play fighting games? It's mostly just spamming special attacks over and over (once they learn them of course) with no care bout combos or strategy. Nor do they care about the complexity of move list. They pick a character, learn a couple special moves and just spam them. They can pick up the special moves and supers in MK easier as the inputs are simplified vs. SF. Even something like down-toward button is easier than down-down/toward-toward button as diagonals give noobs trouble on pads. Especially playstation pads with the diagonals under the plastic.
Both games scrubs will get owned on line, but the casuals play little online. They're mostly playing single player or playing local co-op with other friends who are also scrubs. And that's part of the appeal as MK has more robust single player content with the story modes, towers, factions etc.
Agreeing with Hela. Current MK's movelist is way more complex than SF by far. Even moreso when you factor in variations.
No, that's a bit off considering a lot of listed strings are the first two buttons then the third is counted as a new string.
For example: 11 is counted as a string and 111 is counted as a whole new string. It's technically just the complete string is 3-4 buttons and anything under that is also treated as a string so people can see the frame data on both 11 and 111. If we were counting full strings instead of fractured ones then it'd be roughly 8-10 each.
Arc Christelle
Member
Y'all know diagonals smooth out the input for a simple roll right?
A game where you get to see the inside of characters as their bones break and the camera focuses on someone that just got their face cut off with a sword as it slowly slides off their head.
A game where the camera focuses on a character's butt for a split second.
One of these games has people all angry and calling for changes. The other is more popular in the US.
A game where the camera focuses on a character's butt for a split second.
One of these games has people all angry and calling for changes. The other is more popular in the US.
Holy shit dude. Chill out.
Just because you don't like something doesn't mean everyone who does is wrong or was paid off.
SmoothRunningGun
Member
Mk is more fun. We like fun here.
But the same thing applies to SFV right?
I am sure Capcom is going to release SF V Goty edition( Or Super) next year with Season 1 DLC and maybe even some new chars in it.
Thats what he meant by SFV is going to have long legs , We already know Capcom has long term plans for SFV. And they will obviously update the SKU thats on the Gamestop shelves with GOTY Editions.
Of course all this is assuming SF V is at least as succesful as SF IV.
We dont. I dont know why people are instantly jumping on " Oh MK sells bajillions more because casuals". Fighting games are inherently not really very casual friendly.
Capcom has mentioned no details of how SF4 sales have been split region wise. And we know the game isnt exactly selling hotcakes in Japan. ( It debuted at around 80k and has barely charted. )
ridiculous that youre dictating how a story cannot be told. very close minded thinking.
I dont think we have the region-wise Data. But the idea that MK doesn't sell well outside of the US is pretty dumb.
Japan might be the only exception , but SF doesn't even sell well over there.
US and EU are the major markets for both franchises. So unless EU has a very big SF bias , I dont think theres going to be a noticeable difference between both the franchises.
I think steamspy might have the regional split of the pc version , but i don't have a login.
THIS is a horrible analogy. The difference between SF and MK in the US , is nowhere near the difference in popularity between Soccer and Football.
Something like Halo makes sense because like 80% of sales are in US.
Some has been posted. And even MikeMyers posted:
Which shows until 2007:
And no Street Fighter games.In millions said:
Back when the full NPD charts were posted around. So it was easier to get numbers.
JonathanPower
Member
LOL.
What exactly is the point of this data. The bulk of SF franchise sales come from SF2 and SF4 . Which aren't counted in this data.
It doesn't really prove that MK depends solely on US. I am assuming this thread is referring to the state of the franchises now. Not in previous generations.
MK is more accessible to casuals. Things like fatalities and special movies are easier to pull off and "cooler". The arcade games were really popular and easy to play, so it's stuck around more across generations therefore adding more of a nostalgia factor. It's really not as a simple as "lol merica and gore mirite?", it's just that the game is easier and has had more of a presence in the mainstream for that reason here. I mean sales numbers are pretty close AFAIK anyways.
The OP is talking about why is more popular.
Sales has been posted, multimedia ventures of it (box office performance, multi-platinum soundtrack, successfull comic series).
That combined with the recent performance of the games. Show not only that MK has been a bit more popular in the US but it also increased.
MK is not some series that was ignored over years and suddenly became cool. Since 1992 it has been through multiple ventures in order to still have said popularity.
CrispyBoar
Banned
Good luck. They're going to most likely go the route of MK 9 & MK X in which they'll release a complete edition of the game once they're finished with SF V as a whole.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
I feel like MK has remained popular with a lot of people who enjoy other genres and non-traditional fighting games over the years, and only with MK9 has it really transitioned more towards the FGC. Like when MK4 was out, its owners would be more likely to have wrestling games than Street Fighter or Tekken. Purely subjective memory here and impossible to find out, but it's just the impression I had over the years.
Yes , but why choose a time period when SF wasmt really selling ANYWHERE ? I mean those titles never sold over a million in any one region ( Alpha and SF3 ). Wouldn't it be fair to compare SF2 series ot SF4 series sales ?
Uhhhh so isnt that what i am saying ? MK XL is essentially a goty edition. Just different wording. Similarly they will sell SFV goty editir next year with season 1 and 2 dlc.
I'd say its the 2D 3D thing that really killed SF with the casuals during that period. Tekken was the most popular FG at yhe time . Both casuals and FGC.
Data includes SNES and Genesis which were during the era SFII was quite popular and platforms which had multiple versios of SFII even. The SNES and GEN versions of MKII and MK3 are there which were in the 90s along the releases and peak of SFII.
And others has posted more recent data like MK2011 debuting to 1 million..then going to 3 million. With MKX doing nearly 3 million in the US with less userbase and in less time.
But in this same thread some has posted that sales are not indicative of popularity...which is why we're going in circles.
ethomaz
Banned
The numbers I found.
NPD Feb 2009: SFIV 850k
NPD Apr 2011: MK9 900k
NPD Apr 2015: MKX 1.25m
Ok looks like MK sold more 1st month than SFIV but we need to see another points like:
- The numbers are first month only... how much they sold in the first year or LT?
- SFIV revived the fighting scheme... titles after it have a better chance to sell more?
- How many copies can a SF game sell in today US market?
I'm looking for more data.
NPD Feb 2009: SFIV 850k
NPD Apr 2011: MK9 900k
NPD Apr 2015: MKX 1.25m
Ok looks like MK sold more 1st month than SFIV but we need to see another points like:
- The numbers are first month only... how much they sold in the first year or LT?
- SFIV revived the fighting scheme... titles after it have a better chance to sell more?
- How many copies can a SF game sell in today US market?
I'm looking for more data.
Yeap that was what I guessed... people jumping conclusion without data.
Unlike MK, SF is supported for an entire generation. There's no chance of them only releasing a complete edition when they're finished with SF5. Ono has already mentioned they have a 5 year plan for SF5.
MegamanPoweredUP
Member
Told you I was salty.
Now if you could stop like what I don't like, that'd be great.
Seriously tough.
Don't get me wrong. Talking about games is like talking about sports to me: my team is always going to be better than yours.
Also, awards are more of a PR stunt than a real thing. Same for most of reviews. That isn't even a videogames only thing.
Call me crazy but I'm not changing my mind about it.
If you let your mind too open, it's goin to be too windy up here.
Seriously dude, help me find out how storytelling can be implemented in a fighting game like SF. It's the core structure of the game itself that make it impossible.
Implementing a proper story means changing the gameplay entirely.
Making characters act like movies and then "I don't like you, let's fight" or "you're the bad guy! I'll kick your ass" it's pretty shallow and pointless.
Also, SF's characters have a strong design and that's all they need to tell you about who they are. SF has a story already and it's brought to you by the character design plus few words told by endings and other minor stuff.
Trying to make up a story for a game like SF cuts the expressive potential the characters have on their own in order to fit a sub-par narration. It's a like giving a voice to Link or making a GTA game with kids in it.
petran79
Banned
Back then there existed a term that is irrelevant today: Western Fighting game fan. How many of those titles ring a bell?
Barbarian (Deathsword), Budokan, International Karate, Shadow Fighter, Body Blows, Time Slaughter, Prey for Death, One Must Fall 2097, Weapon Lord, Primal Rage, Cybergladiators, Mace the Dark Age etc
Now you only have MK and KI. But MK was more influenced by Western fighters. It was their culmination. Now all that is lost. If Skullgirls was its own unique game, not following mvc2, it would fade to oblivion.
It's wild to me that people find single player modes in fighting games enjoyable at all. The AI in them is either a complete pushover (i.e. I can spam this one move and the computer is just taking it) or the AI cheats and reacts instantly to your inputs (or breaks the rules of the game). That combined with the fact that 1-on-1 fights on static arenas just aren't interesting unless your opponent adapts to you since nothing else changing...
I mean, it's great that people have other reasons to play fighting games (since I looooove the genre) but single player modes have always fallen short of pretty much any other genre.
I mean, it's great that people have other reasons to play fighting games (since I looooove the genre) but single player modes have always fallen short of pretty much any other genre.
please tell me what is qualitatively different about a fighting game's gameplay compared against, say, a chatacter action game which prevents it from being able to have a narrative.
But that's true for FPS, too. The AI is braindead. You play not for the challenge but the setpieces, world building, crazy action scenes, and the story.
Then you jump online for the challenge.
Incorrect. SNES and Genesis SF2 versions were pre-1995. Primarily 92 and 93 were where the bulk figures are from.
Street Fighter 2 (SNES) - 1992
Street Fighter 2 Champion Edition (SNES) - 1993
Super Street Fighter 2 (SNES) - 1994
Street Fighter 2 Champion edition ( Genesis ) - 1993
Super Street Fighter 2 ( Genesis ) - 1994
Your data starts its sales figures from 1995.
MK 2 came out really late in 94 , so perhaps thats how it was able to break a million in 95 or perhaps the they released sales dat in 1995 for that site idk.
Regardless we need to see SF2 US sales to make a comparison. It sold 6 million worldwide , so its not hard to assume it would be at least around the 2 million mark in the US. Overall sales of SF2 series WW are almost double of MK1,2,3. So the sales in the US cant really be all that far apart.
And others has posted more recent data like MK2011 debuting to 1 million..then going to 3 million. With MKX doing nearly 3 million in the US with less userbase and in less time.
But in this same thread some has posted that sales are not indicative of popularity...which is why we're going in circles.
MK2011 did reach 3 million , but that was Worldwide. We need the exact US split up to compare it with SF4s 3.4m worldwide.
Lets not assume MK2011 didn't sell in EU at all.