it almost feels like someone just googled iPhone NSA and clicked on the first link that seemed to match the narrative while barely reading it.
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Court orders Apple to help unlock iPhone used by San Bernardino shooter
- Thread starter Syriel
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it almost feels like someone just googled iPhone NSA and clicked on the first link that seemed to match the narrative while barely reading it.
Jack The Nipper
Banned
It's funny to me that they can't open it and see it by just by passing the password all together. Maybe they should take it to Microsoft.
I'm not sure what you're suggesting here
They'll appeal it as far as they can (supreme court) but after that if they lose it'll be contempt of court. Even if it's impossible for them to crack it. You would assume that would come out in the appeals.
They certainly won't just say nah.
MisterFalcon
Member
Then the relatives of any future terror attack should sue Apple for designing their equipment in such a way to avoid having to comply with a legally binding court order. Just claim those attacks would have been prevented with the information on this iPhone that cannot be accessed thanks to Apple's design.
The data on the device is encrypted. Not sure what you mean.
Lmao, there would be no way to prove that is right. Maybe it was just an Angry Birds machine for the suspect.
bodyboarder
Member
Well put.
d00d3n
Member
It seems like a reasonable request from the judge if I understand it correctly, however, I really hope that the iOS implementation of encryption makes it impossible for Apple to help. In that case, Apple shouldn't be legally liable for failing to do the impossible. If they are liable, that is regrettable for US tech companies, because the rest of the world can't use technological infrastructure that has known back doors controlled by foreign powers.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
I can't believe that this hasn't become a major issue for Apple - I'm sure after several months of not using their pin and relying on fingerprint, people will forget it. Then if you don't use your phone for 2 days, it's locked and requires that pin and there is no way to reset the pin.
JSoup
Banned
Which basically means nothing. Apple will be issued a fine, which they'll pay easily, being a multi-million dollar company and all, world keeps on spinning.
BlastProcessing
Member
bodyboarder
Member
Fixed. It's also the biggest publicly traded company in the world.
Good response.
Jimbob Smalls
Banned
Phones burn though.
Interesting.
When I first heard of this court order I wondered if it was even possible to install a new OS on a locked iPhone. I wondered if Apple's eventual response might have been "We can't, it's just not possible"
But nowhere in that statement does Apple deny they technically could comply with the request if they wanted to AND wrote an entire new OS.
Lightning Count
Member
They refused to help, that's incredibly shitty.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
This will be a Supreme Court issue. Big implications.
I still don't get it. What exactly is Apple supposed to do here? The phone can't update to a new operating system where they create a backdoor, so how are they supposed to help the FBI with some sort of backdoor? It makes no sense to me what exactly the judge is asking for, as building a backdoor into future operating systems has nothing to do with the specific phone in question.
Have to LOL at people who pictured the FBI entering millions of passwords manually just without a lock period. Any iPhone could be cracked within minutes if Apple is forced to do this.
Government essentially wants to bypass the lock altogether, but present it to the public differently.
Do the other phone manufacturers have this kind of sophisticated encryption too?
If not then I'm switching to iPhone for my next phone. I've been a Windows Phone guy for way too long and have gotten little reward for it (shoddy phones with terrible app selection).
I'm so glad that one of the most powerful companies in the world has the political and financial clout to say No to the US government. Fuck them and fuck whatever they want to do to bypass Apple's encryption technology. This is the same government that uses the NSA to spy on its own citizens.
Seriously FUCK the FBI and good on Apple. It absolutely should not matter that a terrorism investigation is involved. Anything to preserve citizens' privacy should be met with open arms. Literally this news story and Apple's response has pretty much guaranteed that I will switch to iPhone.
If not then I'm switching to iPhone for my next phone. I've been a Windows Phone guy for way too long and have gotten little reward for it (shoddy phones with terrible app selection).
I'm so glad that one of the most powerful companies in the world has the political and financial clout to say No to the US government. Fuck them and fuck whatever they want to do to bypass Apple's encryption technology. This is the same government that uses the NSA to spy on its own citizens.
Seriously FUCK the FBI and good on Apple. It absolutely should not matter that a terrorism investigation is involved. Anything to preserve citizens' privacy should be met with open arms. Literally this news story and Apple's response has pretty much guaranteed that I will switch to iPhone.
It's not sophisticated at all. It just means unlike most company level software there isn't a back door for admins to to get in or capture what they were doing.
Joyful
Member
Here's the thing: There's no fucking such thing as a 'secure backdoor.' Intentionally breaking encryption for one entity opens the door for all the bad guys to jump right in as well. Apple looks like bad guys here but AES-256 is kind of the secure backbone the computing lives on.
They can always brute force the encryption, good luck!
They can always brute force the encryption, good luck!
They were going to. But either they somehow know the thing has a 10 try wipe. IE apple telling them or they are afraid it does. They didn't want a back door to break the encryption they wanted a back door to turn off that feature to allow them to brute force/rainbow table etc...
NSA has much faster ways of doing it than pure brute force.
God I'm just in love with Apple's decision. It's like having a big brother who is incredibly talented and successful and yeah, he can be a pompous dick sometimes, but the guy knows with the utmost confidence that he is free to do whatever the fuck he wants. And what does my big brother do with that unchecked freedom and talent? He puts it to work for the greater good.
There are plenty of problems with Apple. They are not a completely benevolent entity. But someone in the organization, whether it's Tim Cook or some particular shareholder, has enough clout to say - fuck it. We're taking a stand to secure the world's privacy. Because it's not simply "Apple customers" that win here. Apple is too popular for "Apple customers" or "iPhone owners" to accurately describe the magnitude of what is occurring here, if this decision stands. Pretty much the whole world has an iPhone. And if our privacy remains protected thanks to Apple's decision, that's a huge win.
There are plenty of problems with Apple. They are not a completely benevolent entity. But someone in the organization, whether it's Tim Cook or some particular shareholder, has enough clout to say - fuck it. We're taking a stand to secure the world's privacy. Because it's not simply "Apple customers" that win here. Apple is too popular for "Apple customers" or "iPhone owners" to accurately describe the magnitude of what is occurring here, if this decision stands. Pretty much the whole world has an iPhone. And if our privacy remains protected thanks to Apple's decision, that's a huge win.
strikeselect
You like me, you really really like me!
Bravo. Tim Cook is THE MAN. We'll see how this whole thing plays out.
MarzipaNMOS
Member
Apple makes unsecure OS -> installs on iPhone for FBI -> NSA asks FBI for iPhone so they can study the OS and try to use it in the future for whatever phones they want -> Apple security is undermined.
eh, I'm with Apple on this one.
eh, I'm with Apple on this one.
Deaf Spacker
Memb
I'm with Apple too, if they comply it'll set a very dangerous precedent.
The phone has been submitted as evidence for a terrorist attack where people died and the American government is asking for help on getting into it (specifically it, that phone, that single phone, not everyone's phone, just that phone) to dig at the data for clues regarding the attack and Apple refuses and people support it?
Is this gonna be devolve into like every American massacre thread where people go "DON'T TOUCH MY PHONE!"? It doesn't sound like they are asking for a way to access every phone in America, just the very one that has been physically submitted as evidence in a terror trial. Not that I can compare a phone to a gun, that would be fucking terrible (hint hint you gun lovers), but still, surely Apple can handle the unlocking procedure and just not tell how?
Is this gonna be devolve into like every American massacre thread where people go "DON'T TOUCH MY PHONE!"? It doesn't sound like they are asking for a way to access every phone in America, just the very one that has been physically submitted as evidence in a terror trial. Not that I can compare a phone to a gun, that would be fucking terrible (hint hint you gun lovers), but still, surely Apple can handle the unlocking procedure and just not tell how?
Earthpainting
Member
Their response is pretty much what I had hoped they would say. I understand that the security systems in place can suck in instances like this, but they are working exactly as intended.
From the sound of it, Apple may not be capable of doing it. And if they did have a way, there is no way to compromise just that single phone. If Apple shows it is possible for this one, it'll be possible for all the others too. You can be sure governments and other parties around the world will be fishing for how they did it afterwards.
Wipe that smug sneer off your face and then think about this.
If Apple creates software that can unlock a passworded device and then gives it to the government, every iPhone would be at risk.
The government have proved time and time again it cannot be trusted with such software.
ginger ninja
Banned
Definitely not with Apple on this one. Even if one accepts what government wants will risk legit security, I am not hearing alternatives. Might as well say "tough luck but we can't help with this criminal investigation because others might be harmed". I am sure there is some middle ground that can be reached between insuring security and privacy.
Everything leaks. If Apple made that process available, it creates a huge point of failure where none currently exists. Any code they write would be applicable to most iPhones and would prove one could be made.
Why should Apple or anyone else here provide alternatives to the FBI?
Jack The Nipper
Banned
The information is there. To say there isn't a way to get it open other than a password blows my mind a bit.
They are using a 1000 year old way of getting to the information of guessing is sort of interesting. Highly skilled people can be passed it. But I've always believed the government had crappy programmers and artists anyways typically. Creative people don't want to do government work.
You guys really think ms couldn't get into the phone without apples help? Curious
They are using a 1000 year old way of getting to the information of guessing is sort of interesting. Highly skilled people can be passed it. But I've always believed the government had crappy programmers and artists anyways typically. Creative people don't want to do government work.
You guys really think ms couldn't get into the phone without apples help? Curious
The US is basically asking Apple to rewrite their operating system to implement a backdoor for law enforcement to change the settings.
The NSA leaks have shown that if you help the US goverment by implementing backdoors against terrorist they collect all the data they can to not only spy on terrorists but on every fucking smartphone user on this planet.
There is no middle ground. Someone else posted sarcastically "oh no the us government will see your naked pics".
It's already confirmed that degenerate NSA employees share stolen naked pictures from people's private phone albums and share them around at the office. This is FACT thanks to Edward Snowden's leaks.
This is a deal breaker. The government does not have a right to my naked pictures. That is 100% a deal breaker. They don't have a right to my personal texts. To whatever else I have stored on my private phone. There is no "slippery slope" fallacy. The slope is slipped already bruv. The government can't be trusted to only use their power to spy on terrorists. Sure as you're born they will use any power that Apple gives them to spy on everything that your innocent, non-terrorist ass will do. And every other innocent non-terrorist citizen in the USA.
OriginalThinking
Member
Do you lack comprehension skills? Did you read Tim Cooks statement? They helped as much as they could. Putting hundreds of millions of users at risk to solve one issue is neither logical nor helpful.
Souless_PJ
Banned
Tim Cook - "Fuck yo couch US government"
While I'm not an apple fan. Good on apple!
There can be a middle ground, but this is not it. This is overstepping the middle ground. and risks putting every IOS user (potentially every apple user depending if they share encryption methods) at risk.
There can be a middle ground, but this is not it. This is overstepping the middle ground. and risks putting every IOS user (potentially every apple user depending if they share encryption methods) at risk.
1. Apple is not a defendant in the case.
2. If Apple creates a back door for the US government, then surely they will need to create one for their biggest market as well China. Surely the Chinese government will be glad to withhold certification for the iPhone 7 to get such a backdoor into smartphones.
3. Making a back door for this one device will also mean creating a back door for the encryption schemes of all their devices.
4. It will also create a legal precedent for the FBI to force technology companies in general to write software for them. It will be cited in future minor technology-related cases.
https://mobile.twitter.com/kimzetter/status/699817949398368256
https://mobile.twitter.com/csoghoian/status/699841360963108864
2. If Apple creates a back door for the US government, then surely they will need to create one for their biggest market as well China. Surely the Chinese government will be glad to withhold certification for the iPhone 7 to get such a backdoor into smartphones.
3. Making a back door for this one device will also mean creating a back door for the encryption schemes of all their devices.
4. It will also create a legal precedent for the FBI to force technology companies in general to write software for them. It will be cited in future minor technology-related cases.
https://mobile.twitter.com/kimzetter/status/699817949398368256
https://mobile.twitter.com/csoghoian/status/699841360963108864
SoulUnison
Banned
It's been there for almost a decade.
My 1st Gen iPhone from 2007 and my 1st Gen iPad from 2010 both have the feature.
ginger ninja
Banned
You know how this problem could be solved ? Apple provides the password, FBI opens the phone. Boom. That's the middle ground I am talking about. Apple doesn't have to break the encryption but just opens the phone for the authorities.
1) Guy was guilty of mass murder.
2) Authorities are trying to piece together what was he planning.
3) Court agrees the info in his phone needs to be seen.
5) Apple should help so the case can proceed, due process is done and victims get some closure.
Explain to me how accessing a phone is in any different than a search warrant or wire tap that courts usually authroizes case by case.
Unless you're not involved in terrorist/extreme criminal activities, I don't think the government will care about the nudes on your phone.
1) Guy was guilty of mass murder.
2) Authorities are trying to piece together what was he planning.
3) Court agrees the info in his phone needs to be seen.
5) Apple should help so the case can proceed, due process is done and victims get some closure.
Explain to me how accessing a phone is in any different than a search warrant or wire tap that courts usually authroizes case by case.
Unless you're not involved in terrorist/extreme criminal activities, I don't think the government will care about the nudes on your phone.
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