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[Tom Nook Sawyer]

In the now locked thread I read that this source apparently leaked a lot of correct info in the past about Pokémon, Sony, MS with Illumiroom etc. If that's true, I guess this new rumor is somewhat interesting. Except for the ridiculous stuff about power.

It seems a lot of people are ignoring that part, and I wonder why. I've personally never heard of this Geno before--has he actually been right before, or are we taking that site's word at it?

A poster on GoNintendo did say "I remember all of these rumors. Geno is legit. This shit is real."

 

[Muchi Muchi Pink]

If the handheld would be close to Xbox One, that would be actually pretty good.

 

[Tatsumi Oga]

It seems a lot of people are ignoring that part, and I wonder why. I've personally never heard of this Geno before--has he actually been right before, or are we taking that site's word at it?

A poster on GoNintendo did say "I remember all of these rumors. Geno is legit. This shit is real."

That sounds really good. The whole 50x Xbox One and 100x Vita is clearly hyperbole, but let the thing be on par with PS4 and I won't complain.

I just saw this article, and they got it from here, haha

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/50720/nintendo-nx-new-zelda-game-launching-year-rumor/index.html

 

[wonderful103]

It seems a lot of people are ignoring that part, and I wonder why. I've personally never heard of this Geno before--has he actually been right before, or are we taking that site's word at it?

A poster on GoNintendo did say "I remember all of these rumors. Geno is legit. This shit is real."

A compile per platform is still required for, like, everything

 

[bachikarn]

It seems a lot of people are ignoring that part, and I wonder why. I've personally never heard of this Geno before--has he actually been right before, or are we taking that site's word at it?

A poster on GoNintendo did say "I remember all of these rumors. Geno is legit. This shit is real."

The thing is basically a hybrid which we are pretty convinced there will still be a dedicated handheld and console.

 

[blu]

Not really, because people make it seem like it is some great task to beat out the PS4, when it really isn't. Of the reasons I listed.

1) You can't make the console too cheap, or it would be on the same level as the handheld

A $200 handheld is what most people expect, and a $300 console would be notably more expensive than the handheld.

2) Nintendo made an expensive gimmick with the Wii U, and it bit them. I'm doubtful they will go all in with the gimmick again

Nintendo are not in some power struggle with sony. They will have a differentiator in the NX home - you can bet on that, and that differentiator (or a multitude of), whatever it is, would still take away from the 'power' BOM.

3) As I addressed above, small and power efficient is not something the West really cares about, and really should not be an important design philosophy any more.

It might not be for teens, but for adults/entire families it still is. People are not indifferent what kind of an ugly-looking obtrusive box they will stick under their living room tv.

Even so, the PS4 isn't terribly big, and if they are just trying to match it's power, they can come out with a smaller box.

Only if they use 14nm, which would come at a premium. Small, powerful, cheap - pick two.

I just don't think it should be super shocking that Nintendo can make a system more powerful than the PS4. PS4 was not a graphical and expensive beast like the X360 and PS3 were at the time.

A 14nm ps4 would likely be more expensive as of today.

 

[10k]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahaha.

Said no coder about anything more than a simple program ever.

Yeah I haven't coded since grade 11 in computer science class but I can tell you that's not how programming works, ever. Maybe if you're running hello world lol.

 

[sphinx]

Basically Retro has to start making games that appeal to Western gamers. Then people will buy the system for their game(s), and then these consumers would be more likely to buy Western third party offerings.

it's sad but Retro has never done anything to move nintendo hardware.

they did Metroid Prime. The media would cry tears of joy explaining how awesome that game is and gamers still didn't buy a NGC for $99.99

not sure what nintendo can do but using their studios to do "western-like" experiences will not make a difference.

I think it's simple, they need all AAA ps4/x1 games and thats it,

 

[Malus]

Those people are out there ... playing FIFA, Madden, Call of Duty and co on their PS4 or Xbox One.The biggest issue Nintendo faces with these games is that the audience is already invested on other systems.

That's why I said Nintendo has to compete for them.

Since playing online is one of the huge draws of these games, it's also not simple to convince someone to switch. After all, this would mean that he or she can't play with his or her friends anymore.

Nintendo would need to deliver a damn good reason if they want to attract that audience. I'm not convinced that such a reason even exists.

Definitely won't be simple at all. Nintendo will have to spend a lot of money and effort to reach out to the market. But that's what they're gonna have to do if they want 3rd parties to excel on their platform.

On the other hand, just making the NX console's install base big enough (unlike Wii U) and easy enough to create straightforward ports for (unlike Wii) could be enough incentive to get 3rd parties to port their stuff over. They don't necessarily need to become the leader in 3rd party software sales numbers, just a viable option.

It seems a lot of people are ignoring that part, and I wonder why. I've personally never heard of this Geno before--has he actually been right before, or are we taking that site's word at it?

A poster on GoNintendo did say "I remember all of these rumors. Geno is legit. This shit is real."

Some of the stuff he's gotten right are pretty obvious guesses.

 

[bachikarn]

A $200 handheld is what most people expect, and a $300 console would be notably more expensive than the handheld.


Nintendo are not in some power struggle with sony. They will have a differentiator in the NX home - you can bet on that, and that differentiator (or a multitude of), whatever it is, would still take away from the 'power' BOM.


It might not be for teens, but for adults/entire families it still is. People are not indifferent what kind of an ugly-looking obtrusive box they will stick under their living room tv.


Only if they use 14nm, which would come at a premium. Small, powerful, cheap - pick two.


A 14nm ps4 would likely be more expensive as of today.

1) I don't think it's crazy for a $300 system to be on the same ballpark as a 3 year old system.

2) Maybe so, but if that differentiator significantly gimps the power again, then they haven't learned anything from the Wii U. It only works out if they truly come out with a revolutionary device like the Wii-mote, which is unlikely IMO.

3) [citation needed]. What evidence is there to suggest that anyone in the West cares at all about the size of the system? It hasn't stopped the PS4 and XB1 from selling. I'm an adult, and I don't give a shit about that. Same as all my adult friends.

4) I don't know the technical details, so maybe it isn't possible to come out with something slimmer at the same price (although seems hard to believe for 3 year old hardware) but my point still stands that it shouldn't be a driving design requirement. Powerful and cheap would give them more value in the West.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Some of the stuff he's gotten right are pretty obvious guesses.

And I don't know when he 'leaked' illumiroom but the concept was revealed in patents way before the official reveal.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

Yeah that rumor is bullshit. It sounds kind of cool but it reads like a fan fic. Plus all those things Geno "leaked" were incredibly vague and heavily speculated upon in the first place.

 

[bachikarn]

it's sad but Retro has never done anything to move nintendo hardware.

they did Metroid Prime. The media would cry tears of joy explaining how awesome that game is and gamers still didn't buy a NGC for $99.99

not sure what nintendo can do but using their studios to do "western-like" experiences will not make a difference.

I think it's simple, they need all AAA ps4/x1 games and thats it,

I don't think you are correct. I think a lot of gamers did buy the Gamecube for Metroid. Obviously not to the level of the PS2, but it is a different market. There were also a lot of things holding the GCN back from the western market - specifically the kid focused advertisement and reputation.

I don't think getting the AAA ps4/x1 games are enough. What would be the reason for that crowd to get an NX? Nintendo has to give that crowd a unique reason to buy the NX over the ps4/x1. They have to get a bigger audience cos evidence suggests that current Wii U audience doesn't really care about those games, or will get them on the ps4/x1. I get that they were gimped ports, but I think it is unlikely that the current audience will buy the AAA games in a large number even if they had content parity. Just a different type of gamer.

 

[Jackano]

not sure what nintendo can do but using their studios to do "western-like" experiences will not make a difference.

First they don't have many western studios to begin with. Outside Retro, they only have a few second party, and NLG is making Federation Force after Luigi. So a spin-off, after a japanese IP. Just like Retro spent a ridiculous amount of resources on DK.

Building an audience isn't about one key-title, IMO it's about at least 2 AAA exclusives titles + one or two lesser titles, released in a short time (maybe one year). That's this way they can grab an audience attention, and convert them into a HW sale, because the consumer will see he have several games he may want to play releasing in succession.

What I believe is for example, if Retro is doing Metroid, NLG another "western" title, while securing Bayonetta 3 as an exclusive, and release all of this within 9 months, you may have an actual impact, instead of letting Bayonetta bombing alone.

 

[Peru]

it's sad but Retro has never done anything to move nintendo hardware.

they did Metroid Prime. The media would cry tears of joy explaining how awesome that game is and gamers still didn't buy a NGC for $99.99

not sure what nintendo can do but using their studios to do "western-like" experiences will not make a difference.

I think it's simple, they need all AAA ps4/x1 games and thats it,

That's certainly not it. If anything is not it, that's it. Chasing that dream is a waste of money. It will never be the place to go to for western AAA third parties. Even if they get all the AAA games of 2017.

The whole idea of competing with PS4 and XB (or Steam) is silly, anyway. They need to secure a place in the market for themselves. Doesn't matter if they sell more or less than the Xbox. The trick to doing that is having your own thing to offer. Nintendo hardware as the One place for all your entertainment needs is a thing of the far past. The attach rate on some of the Wii U hits is crazy. Because people buy their hardware for that type of experience. They just need to secure more of it. Hopefully they've found a more effective way of producing software than splitting resources completely on console and handheld.

 

[deriks]

Topic worthy?

THERE'S A WHOLE HOST OF NEW NX RUMOURS FLOATING AROUND

While any rumours before an official announcement should be taken with a major grain of salt, a new batch of Nintendo NX hardware rumours are doing the rounds from a source who has leaked correct information in the past.

Geno, who has previously leaked new Pokémon forms and Microsoft's Illumiroom project, spoke to Dual Pixels and dropped a large amount of supposed hardware information about Nintendo's upcoming hardware.

While this could all be a bunch of rubbish, the info is all included below. For what it's worth, much of this info does line up with information I have heard from a separate source.

- The NX has a wireless HDMI dongle that attaches flush to the back of the device. You can pull it out and insert it into any display with a normal sized HDMI output.
- NX uses an evolved version of the Wii U’s streaming tech to display in HD on the TV screen.
- Analog controls for movement have small motors in them for full haptic feedback. If you control a character and hit a wall, the sticks move away from the wall to simulate hitting it.
- Bluetooth synch with tons of devices, including smartphones and tablets.
- You can answer phone calls and display text messages from your phone onto NX screen(s).
- Closest in terms of hardware spec to the Xbox One. All tech uses the exact same hardware layout as the PS4 and Xbox One. Any game that can run on PlayStation 4 or Xbox One can easily run on the NX with near-zero modifications.
- This is even more true if the game runs on Android OS or Unreal Engine 4.
- One 3rd Party dev says “It’s the easiest device we’ve ever developed for. You just take your code, compile it and it works."
- Look to Pokémon Go to get an idea of the type of social features that will be in NX.
- Strengths of the device are its usability and ease of use.
- Operating system, named NintendOS, is very powerful and has so many modern features of mobile operating systems.
- Nintendo is trying to be very careful in showing it off for fear that it would be mistaken as running Android.
- Very strong networking functions, as it ties into multiple devices and services. This allows for a very competent and pervasive eco-system designed to constantly involve the consumer’s life.

 

[blu]

1) I don't think it's crazy for a $300 system to be on the same ballpark as a 3 year old system.

Well, xbone is in the same ballpark.

2) Maybe so, but if that differentiator significantly gimps the power again, then they haven't learned anything from the Wii U. It only works out if they truly come out with a revolutionary device like the Wii-mote, which is unlikely IMO.

Key word being 'significantly' - how do we quantize that?

3) [citation needed]. What evidence is there to suggest that anyone in the West cares at all about the size of the system? It hasn't stopped the PS4 and XB1 from selling. I'm an adult, and I don't give a shit about that. Same as all my adult friends.

Apparently an anecdote would do - I'm an adult who lives in the West, all my friends above their thirties care, but more importantly, my entire family opposes the idea of a large entertainment box underneath the tv. A mac mini / wii is about as much as what gets tolerated. So all large computing boxes are in my den, not underneath the living-room tv.

4) I don't know the technical details, so maybe it isn't possible to come out with something slimmer at the same price (although seems hard to believe for 3 year old hardware) but my point still stands that it shouldn't be a driving design requirement. Powerful and cheap would give them more value in the West.

Ok, let's for the sake of argument accept your position that size is truly insignificant in the West: powerful and cheap, as long as powerful is ps4-levels, and cheap is about ps4-levels - sure. Now, is the ps4 as 'cheap' and as 'powerful' as you'd like?

 

[kuroneko0509]

Topic worthy?

thread about it already locked, and it's already discussed back few pages

 

[Herb Alpert]

Topic worthy?

There was one, it has been locked.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Hey blu, can I ask what the maximum number of Polaris CUs could be in a fat Vita sized handheld? Would 2 be the limit or is more possible? At whichever hundreds of mhz would be most suitable.

 

[bachikarn]

Well, xbone is in the same ballpark.


Key word being 'significantly' - how do we quantize that?


Apparently an anecdote would do - I'm an adult who lives in the West, all my friends above their thirties care, but more importantly, my entire family opposes the idea of a large entertainment box underneath the tv. A mac mini / wii is about as much as what gets tolerated. So all large computing boxes are in my den, not underneath the living-room tv.


Ok, let's for the sake of argument accept your position that size is truly insignificant in the West: powerful and cheap, as long as powerful is ps4-levels, and cheap is about ps4-levels - sure. Now, is the ps4 as 'cheap' and as 'powerful' as you'd like?

1) Will XB1 still be $300 this fall? A quick amazon search shows that XB1 is currently $289 with a free game.

2) No, an anecdote will not just do. I used one to give some evidence, but the true proof is that the XB1 and PS4 are selling well despite being large. It has had little impact to their success. Similarly, being compact had no appreciable benefit to the Wii U.

I won't say it has no consequence, but it should not be one of the top driving design requirements.

3) Well, I personally don't think they should go cheap, but if you have to decide between small or cheap, I'd go cheap no question.

I think if they had a PS4 level box with a hardware gimmick and it was $50 more than the PS4, that would generally be a good product.

I personally would like Nintendo to try and differentiate themselves purely from a software angle and abandon these hardware gimmicks. I think they are truly elite as a software company, but not so much as a hardware company. So in my ideal world, it'd be about $50-100 more expensive than the PS4 with better power, and the main draw is the uniqueness of the game play.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

Topic worthy?

Jeez, this is how far Destructoid has fallen huh?

 

[geordiemp]

Jeez, this is how far Destructoid has fallen huh?

Bad isnt it, I am interested in all new hardware, but they dont even know if its handheld or home console.

But why would you have a wireless HDMI unless its a hybrid handheld - in which case it would be no where near XB1 power due to power consumption and cost.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

$350 / £300 with a killer exclusive packed in (think Mario 64). No stupid gimmicks.

For that money they can easily top the PS4 in performance 3+ years later. Not by much, just within the same ball park. Like the delta between the XB1 and PS4 is now. That's enough, anymore would be a bonus.

The way I see it they have two possible stances -

1) Are we happy with selling to the Nintendo faithful only?

2) Do we need to expand our horizons and get all core gamers interested in our product?

If they go for option 1, they can release pretty much any hardware they want with gimmicks galore, most of the Nintendo fans will buy it regardless. However that's all they will sell, and they will be looking at around a 20 million install base at best. I'm not sure how much longer that's going to be viable for them

If they want to achieve option 2, they have to take the core gaming market seriously. That means releasing good hardware and getting full software support for their machine. Even then, they will have a hard time persuading people to choose Nintendo over the competition. But with the right hardware and software support, they at least have a chance.

Releasing a console less powerful than the PS4, 3 years later, will only serve to put a big black cloud over the product before they have even started. Coming off the back of a failure with the Wii U, that's the last thing they need.

Nintendo are going to need very strong reasons for people to choose an NX over a PS4 or XB1.

With all that said, I'm not even convinced that 'NX' is a console. At least in the traditional sense.

 

[TheJoRu]

One question: where would you get this kind of information? Assuming that it would be from someone with access to a dev kit, would that person know this much about it? Would you be able to know what social features it'd have, about the operating system, answering phone calls and see text messages, what it looks like etc.?

There's way too much info here for it to be believable to me.

 

[Peru]

If they go for option 1, they can release pretty much any hardware they want with gimmicks galore, most of the Nintendo fans will buy it regardless. However that's all they will sell, and they will be looking at around a 20 million install base at best. I'm not sure how much longer that's going to be viable for them

The 3DS is at close to 60 million units. With the NX being both a console and handheld, probably, they should aim for that, at least, even with just Nintendo + Japanese developers. That will always be good enough.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Lets not beat around the bush, Nintendo would need to lock down call of duty, gta, assasin's creed the witcher 4 as EXCLUSIVES to win over this audience. I just don't think it's worth it. They could make a device more powerful than the ps4, smaller than the ps4, cheaper than the ps4 but it would still be disowned by the insecuricores for having bright cartoony games and having a handle on the back.

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

The rumor is sounding a bit like a tablet sized portable device rather than a handheld. It's splitting hairs, but if Nintendo intends to release a pocket sized model down the line, that could satisfy the "not combining home console and handheld" denial.

 

[diaspora]

Wireless HDMI sounds like the hilarious fever dream of a delusional hybrid-console theorist.

Something Chromecast like is possible but would be shit for games.

 

[bachikarn]

The rumor is sounding a bit like a tablet sized portable device rather than a handheld. It's splitting hairs, but if Nintendo intends to release a pocket sized model down the line, that could satisfy the "not combining home console and handheld" denial.

Nintendo is big on local multiplayer. Seems hard to do that if it was just a tablet.

 

[RedSwirl]

To be honest that does sound like something Nintendo would do. A core part of the company philosophy is taking its own relatively aged tech and doing new things with it. Taking some of the tech from the GamePad and putting it to a different use sounds about in line with that. You even have Kimishima's quotes suggesting the NX is gonna try another big new thing and that it "won't be a sequel to current hardware" or something. I'm not saying I believe this rumor, I'm just saying it sounds like something Nintendo would do.

Hardware sounds like a generation beyond Vita capabilities, but what the rumor says suggests an x86 handheld, which to my knowledge is still really hard to do, especially for a company like Nintendo that likes to keep costs down.

 

[cw_sasuke]

Nintendo is big on local multiplayer. Seems hard to do that if it was just a tablet.

Its all connected via Bluetooth anyway...so there will likely be Controllers accessorizes for the usual prices like on WiiU.

 

[Pokemaniac]

Why are we still discussing that dualpixels rumor? It was obviously fake last night, and it's still obviously fake now.

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

Nintendo is big on local multiplayer. Seems hard to do that if it was just a tablet.

Pro controllers and the wireless HDMI mentioned in the original rumor. Done.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Why are we still discussing that dualpixels rumor? It was obviously fake last night, and it's still obviously fake now.

Because some people like to dream (about a mini-tablet sized xbox one).

 

[blu]

Hey blu, can I ask what the maximum number of Polaris CUs could be in a fat Vita sized handheld? Would 2 be the limit or is more possible? At whichever hundreds of mhz would be most suitable.

No friggin clue - I'm yet to touch a polaris with my hands.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

The 3DS is at close to 60 million units. With the NX being both a console and handheld, probably, they should aim for that, at least, even with just Nintendo + Japanese developers. That will always be good enough.

With a more handheld like device, for sure they can have more modest specs, and have a much easier time selling it.

The 3DS declined in sales though compared to it's predecessor so it's not all plain sailing. With more and more people owning tablets and smartphones, and the games on them getting better and better, Nintendo have their work cut out in that space too.

 

[Graphics Horse]

No friggin clue - I'm yet to touch a polaris with my hands.

I feared as much, thanks anyway.

 

[Thraktor]

I feared as much, thanks anyway.

I did a quick calculation on this a little while back, largely based on scaling of Apple's A-series and standard Arm cores to 14nm, and I think I got a figure of about 80mm^2 on 14nm for:

4 GCN CUs
12 A53 cores
10MB L3 SRAM cache
Various uncore

That's in the lower high-end to high mid-range segment of the mobile SoC market, so very much on the upper end of what's available to Nintendo (the A9 is about 100mm^2). No idea what kind of clocks you'd get out of the GPU, though, it may be only 250-300mhz.

 

[CockJohnson]

To though who still believe the dualpixel/gonintendo rumor, don't, it's literally just a word for word copy of a fake 4chan post.

 

[BY2K]

To though who still believe the dualpixel/gonintendo rumor, don't, it's literally just a word for word copy of a fake 4chan post.

Guess that closes that case.

 

[10k]

To though who still believe the dualpixel/gonintendo rumor, don't, it's literally just a word for word copy of a fake 4chan post.

Oh go Nintendo how your credibility has fallen.

 

[CockJohnson]

Oh go Nintendo how your credibility has fallen.

I wouldn't blame them, it's dualpixel that posted the rumor, gonintendo just reported it.

 

[Graphics Horse]

I did a quick calculation on this a little while back, largely based on scaling of Apple's A-series and standard Arm cores to 14nm, and I think I got a figure of about 80mm^2 on 14nm for:

4 GCN CUs
12 A53 cores
10MB L3 SRAM cache
Various uncore

That's in the lower high-end to high mid-range segment of the mobile SoC market, so very much on the upper end of what's available to Nintendo (the A9 is about 100mm^2). No idea what kind of clocks you'd get out of the GPU, though, it may be only 250-300mhz.

Thanks, that sounds pretty good, though I appreciate it might not match that.

 

[LiamR]

I wouldn't blame them, it's dualpixel that posted the rumor, gonintendo just reported it.

Exactly, and they never said it was true.

 

[Turrican3]

I think it's the other way around: without compelling software, and even some groundbreaking and somewhat desruptive games, it will be difficult to turn the new consoles into the success they want them to be.

Well, I actually completely agree on this.

I just think it would be safe to assume that, if Nintendo really wants to take some risks with first/second party efforts (as they should, to expand their popularity/audience), they will probably split the aforementioned risk between the home and the portable, by not targeting - at least initially - home exclusives.

About your last statement i agree, but that's what they did with basically every single Wii U game aside from Zelda (at least from what Aonuma is saying, which i currently don't have any reason to doubt) and Xenoblade (to a degree).

Fair enough: infact, I'd say most of the WiiU stuff to me felt like Nintendo was going through a *far* less inspired period, compared to the Wii generation.

I know lots of people will disagree (Wii was arguably THE most polarizing/divisive console ever) but I really wish they could replicate that kind of effect: not just for the commercial implications - of course I'd like Nintendo to succeed - but first and foremost for the never-seen-before feeling that somehow got lost with WiiU. It's not easy by the way.

About that "absorbing the WiiU architecture adequately" I mentioned before, I guess after all it was a fairly ambiguous statement where we shouldn't read too much into... not until we have a clearer overall picture anyway.

 

[KageMaru]

Hopefully Nintendo has learned from the Wii-U launch and not blow off third party relations.

Really looking forward to see how this console plays out for them.

 

[georly]

If that haptic feedback joystick thing is true - I see a lot of broken controllers/handhelds in the future. Especially from poorly programmed games and people FORCING it because the game isn't designed well enough for the user to say 'oh yeah, it should have pushed me back.'

 

[The_Lump]

If that haptic feedback joystick thing is true - I see a lot of broken controllers/handhelds in the future. Especially from poorly programmed games and people FORCING it because the game isn't designed well enough for the user to say 'oh yeah, it should have pushed me back.'

If it's true (it isn't!) it's only referring to a kind of vibration feedback in the sticks. It's not implying it's going to be physically fighting against the user input I don't think. I mean there isn't a mechanism trying to force the sticks one way or the other, just directed vibrations.

But again: it's all complete fantasy.

 

[Luigiv]

I did a quick calculation on this a little while back, largely based on scaling of Apple's A-series and standard Arm cores to 14nm, and I think I got a figure of about 80mm^2 on 14nm for:

4 GCN CUs
12 A53 cores
10MB L3 SRAM cache
Various uncore

That's in the lower high-end to high mid-range segment of the mobile SoC market, so very much on the upper end of what's available to Nintendo (the A9 is about 100mm^2). No idea what kind of clocks you'd get out of the GPU, though, it may be only 250-300mhz.

12 cpu cores sounds ridiculous. 10MB of SRAM also sounds extremely wasteful. Drop the cores down to eight and swap the SRAM for at least 24MB of EDRAM. Would make for a better balance I'd think (though I have no idea if any Fabs other than Intel can produce 14nm EDRAM yet).