I think you're the first person I've come across that's claimed that Metro was just a reskin of Apple's design.
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Microsoft unifying PC/XB1 platforms, Phil implies Xbox moving to incremental upgrades
- Thread starter dancrane212
- Start date
I think you're the first person I've come across that's claimed that Metro was just a reskin of Apple's design.
Are you surprised? People don't like giving credit to companies they don't like. People also say with a straight face that iPAD Pro was not inspired by Surface design. Even tho the Surface is mention in just about every article and review. That's take some mental gymnastics.
Reading this thread the last few hours...I may have changed my orig stance on this. I orig though it was a bad idea.
You are absolutely right. Reading a recent post about the Jasper mobo in the 360 reminded me. In my case it was getting a Jasper after a RRoD, and getting a PS3 Super Slim after my 80GB PS3 finally died. I specifically waited for the Jasper to release or looked for it. There were forums I was in, Anandtech and some Xbox forum, that ppl posted ways to find a Jasper by looking at the barcode or numbers on the see thru part of the back of the box, power numbers for the power brick, something...
But ppl get revisions all the time, with lil improvements. This would be actually worth getting. Way more with just a Slim version and a die shrink. And maybe all this is just Phil saying they wont go by generations in the traditional sense to introduce the next console(s).
Exactly.
The only bad thing about it would be if they don't enforce forward compatibility well enough. If you get good compatibility for 2-3 models (read 6-9 years), then it'd be just as good as a traditional generation.
I wonder how Japanese third parties will react to this news. Many of them already have a hard enough time justifying ports to the Xbox One, and it's possible all this does is adds more work for them. They may decide that it's just not worth the effort. Microsoft needs to make sure that the effort is minimal to scale a game to each revision.
tiredheadcrab
Member
Spencer said like literally last month that we will see another xbox. They arent leaving it. They are changing what consoles are. Again the word "Exit" being used is kind of funny and intellectually dishonest.
Kind of makes you wonder how many unique users are actually in the 180M MS and Sony sold last gen.
Crayon
Member
How hard is it to scale a game on the PC? There is a minimum spec. Which the xbox one would be. Recommended spec for the xbox one s and Ultra for xbox one s plus.
It isn't up to him, fyi.
Eh...not sure if this will work, it just really never has in the past and why would it make sense now? I think MS should focus on bringing Windows PC and Xbox as the two choices for all its games from now on. People can choose between PC or Xbox...there are a TON of xbox owners that will be perfectly fine with current xbox..very few will opt to get a new xbox with better specs and then MS has to worry about if dev's will put in the extra effort to make the games work on different variations of consoles...it'll cause more issues than not.
Making the Xbox games work on both PC and current Xbox is the way they should go imho because this alone gives two options, PCs are so much more comfortable in the living room environment with HDMI and current HDTV's and PC games in general are much easier to download and play...PC is much more friendly these days to the non-savvy PC users to the point now days making it a breeze for the average folks. So PC and current xbox ecosystem sounds more stable to me. Two options is enough...don't start making all sorts of irritations.
I don't trust Microsoft with new hardware because half the time it don't work. Their idea's in the hardware market are very iffy in recent years...and i would be very skeptical if they go make new console hardware every few years. He used the phones as an example...well this guy sounds like he's clueless because technology has a sensitivity to consumers...some things work, some don't. Sure smart phones cycles it's hardware every two years or so...but that don't mean consoles will work the same way. I think this entire idea is suspect and very iffy, imho
Making the Xbox games work on both PC and current Xbox is the way they should go imho because this alone gives two options, PCs are so much more comfortable in the living room environment with HDMI and current HDTV's and PC games in general are much easier to download and play...PC is much more friendly these days to the non-savvy PC users to the point now days making it a breeze for the average folks. So PC and current xbox ecosystem sounds more stable to me. Two options is enough...don't start making all sorts of irritations.
I don't trust Microsoft with new hardware because half the time it don't work. Their idea's in the hardware market are very iffy in recent years...and i would be very skeptical if they go make new console hardware every few years. He used the phones as an example...well this guy sounds like he's clueless because technology has a sensitivity to consumers...some things work, some don't. Sure smart phones cycles it's hardware every two years or so...but that don't mean consoles will work the same way. I think this entire idea is suspect and very iffy, imho
Watch the video.
Yes for western devs this is simple stuff, but just take a look at the recent PC ports of the Tales of games to see what I mean.
Banjo-Kazooie
Member
Exactly. I bought 4 360s, but was only one person the entire time. My 4 360s were essentially one MAU
Papacheeks
Banned
Makes sense in how they are using that data to spin the narrative of them not doing well.
MAU is across the board with Windows 10, XB360, and Xbox one. How does having stats as he said for xb360 help keep them happy when all the new titles minus TR,titanfall, are coming to xbox one, and windows? Not 360?
It's just spin, they say it helps them understand their gaming trends to keep them happy. Want to know Phil what keeps people happy? New games, new studios dedicated for new games or revitalizing old IP's.
Xbox live users can play Third party games anywhere. On different platforms. Where there niche should be is their xbox live exclusive games. No spinning of active users is going to change that Hololens is not a good substitute for VR.
Having your PC gaming plans not ready for a game we didnt even know up until the day it was released on the store. Then people with AMD cards can't play it. people with G-Sync monitors can use them in the way they were intended.
Not letting someone use their SLI, or cross fire setup because you didn;t have the foresight to see that, "oh I don't know maybe that's something gamers would want". Yea they are truly putting up a great effort in having this platform being prepared.
Hard to put faith in something that feels it's still in alpha stage, and they are already releasing games on it.
So excuse me if I and other's don't put any faith into MS for their future plans. And seeing this, how do you think this would affect developers? If MS can't get their shit together why would developers go the extra mile and add features to the refreshed box?
LukasTaves
Member
Oh shit, you are right. I end up buying 4 360s, and almost bought an xbone elite last week. I wonder how many end up buying the same console over and over, it feels like it's already an habit whenever they launch a new model.
LukasTaves
Member
The thing with VR is that with their goal, they don't need to develop one. It kinda makes sense to see them only having HoloLens since they seem to be the only major player doing AR.
Their new game platform already supports VR, in fact they just announced VR support for minecraft. Bringing said platform to Xbox and releasing a more powerful Xbox capable of running oculus or any other PC VR already covers their asses on that front. So they can go already and focus on creating a device that no one else is making.
Because of the cost of the hololense kit; it'll be a while before it hits retail. It's a self contained computer doing a variation of what google glass did. Both aren't commercial for the same reason. Cost.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
They would have been sued in a class action suit, and the FCC would have investigated the failure rate since at the time of the warranty extension, failure rates were an estimated 30-40%. That is atrocious for a consumer electronics product that would have a mandated recall otherwise if nothing was done, along with an investigation to see if they were aware of the flaw before hand.
It wasn't until after revisions people figured out the failure rate was pretty much all of Jasper.
They knew of the flaw, they wanted to launch a year ahead of the competition and crossed their fingers. They were forced to act. You paint it like they were so noble in what they did, lol.
I for one am glad both systems have been rock solid this gen, unlike last gen's mess.
Bingo. Why spend money on hardware and R&D and not make squat on hardware when they don't have to. They took the road of AR because of it's multiple purposes and the money is business (NASA) anyways. Gaming on AR is secondary.
LukasTaves
Member
Yeah, you are completely right. But I was talking about how they don't need to hide the fact that they don't have VR. With the direction they are going they don't even need to develop their own VR solution to have VR, they just make it compatible with PC offerings and offer a console capable of using them without compromise.
Just the ecosystem alone has got me excited. I think it's stupid as fuck that in 2016 consoles are tied to generations. Once it's over they have to start another ecosystem. It really hit me when I booted up my Xbox One and saw barely any games in the store. I just shook my head and said oh yeah I have to wait a couple of years so they can fill it out again. It's the only ecosystem this is tied to specific hardware. It's so damn silly.
Would that have costed them >1 billion dollars?
Is touchscreen interaction of "flat" oblongs and squares massively different to shaded squares?
Look at the revolutionary nature of re skinning icons.
This is not the switch from keyboard/command tree to mouse/gui to touch screen gui's levels of revolutionary paradigm shift.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Mandatory recall, class action suit, and heavy fines, it probably would have costed them more. Especially if it ended the brand with all that R&D down the toilet.
It was more financial sense to save the product, and make way more on your return in the long run. Very few could afford to do that. It would have crippled the other 2.
For them it worked out, and they learned since the new one is rock solid.
I still say that if Microsoft can tell a customer if you buy *this* version of Xbox One, you'll have 6 years of support for that version at launch (meaning developers use that as a baseline and scale up from there), I think it's a good deal. No one can really be mad at 6 year console life. Release a new one every two years. I see that is a viable strategy that can work out as 6 years is a good amount of time for a lifecycle that people are used to. I don't see how that can't work.
Oh and just FYI, I think that plan is going to start this E3. A new Xbox One that's going to be more powerful will be announced. Also, I believe that we'll have a new hardware design (thanks to the Surface team lead by Panos Panay). So we'll have two new Xbox Ones this year, 1 more powerful and another that's the same, but both with a new design language that's akin to the Surface hardware design. Obviously, this is all my speculation...but I have been hearing that there will be new hardware this year.
Oh and just FYI, I think that plan is going to start this E3. A new Xbox One that's going to be more powerful will be announced. Also, I believe that we'll have a new hardware design (thanks to the Surface team lead by Panos Panay). So we'll have two new Xbox Ones this year, 1 more powerful and another that's the same, but both with a new design language that's akin to the Surface hardware design. Obviously, this is all my speculation...but I have been hearing that there will be new hardware this year.
FUCK! I so hope you are right. I'm drooling to see what the surface team can do with a console.
Papacheeks
Banned
So what games are going to use oculus on Xbox? Not the same ones available on steam that's for sure. Look at how they are treating their new platform. Only Microsoft based games. You think for VR on their xbox they have games in the works made by their internal studios, to run oculus?
You think the guys over on oculus are going to make games for xbox platform when it seems having games on steam, and on the xbox-PC platform is something Microsoft is not entertaining.
I think you may be right, but I hope during E3 they have a section dedicated to their so called new XBOX on windows platform since xbox one and the windows platform are one in the same no It would go a long way to show people they are committed, since their first release so far was a disaster. And I also hope people who just bought the Elite this past year don't get too upset that what they thought they bought being a premium sku, really isn't anymore.
This right here folks. I imagine the % of people with a launch version of a system for 6+ years isn't more than 50%. Complete guess of course.
Samurai G0SU
Member
I thought pc sales dont do well versus consoles. So even using just that small amount of info, im surprised you think everyone wants to game on a pc primarily. lol
We dont even know the full business model, just a blurb of What they want to do in a generation.
0coolclimate0
Member
Upgraded.. Like buy a video card upgrade? Dude..
On the topic of MAUs, I think that could hurt perception more than what people think it could. As Phil said, Xbox live is fucking up, that could hurt their MAU cuz a good number of people have a PS4 and they just switch to that and don't come back until the next month. That number can fluctuate up or down. I know there were some months that I didn't fuck wit my xbox one at all nor open the Xbox one app to do anything, that contributes negatively to their MAU.
Like some people said in this thread, a lot of people had multiple 360s just because of the RROD alone. That counts as another hardware sale and that number increases but it doesn't tell you that the person is more likely to buy your game, it does tell you that they have the potential to buy your game. But if they are active on Xbox, it tells a dev that not only do they have a Xbox device, they are active on it so that you know that it's not just collecting dust, they have a more concrete number of people who could potentially buy your game in the Xbox ecosystem.
True, they definitely can say, yea, we sold this many Xbox Ones and people can compare it to the PS4 and see what their total userbase is, but not their active userbase. There's a reason why Facebook talks about monthly active users. You know how many Facebook accounts don't get used? That number is probably ridiculous as it pertains to the amount of accounts Facebook has. Advertisers look at what's active. It's actually no different than ratings. How many people are watching this show at this time?
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Now that I rethought about what I said, I think they'll announce that they'll have new hardware but they won't show it until the MS hardware showcase (So Panos Panay can tell you about it...LOL) but I may be wrong as the Xbox Teams was at last years show but they didn't have hardware to show (as they may be ramping up their two year cycle...lololol, just speculation).
E3 to me, should really be about software of the platform and all about games. You announce a game and you tell them what MS devices it will be released on. That's the most clear and consise way to put it. No need to segregate their audience...you show the audience the game...get them excited for the game, it may make them get a console or PC because of it. Don't have a section that's just console and then another that's just PC. The show should always be about games games games. A little platform stuff but mostly games games games. In the beginning he can talk about the vision and what they are planning to do with Xbox (that's were he can say that they will have new hardware this year but won't show it until the MS showcase) but just games man. Hardware will have thier shine later (as they should).
Like some people said in this thread, a lot of people had multiple 360s just because of the RROD alone. That counts as another hardware sale and that number increases but it doesn't tell you that the person is more likely to buy your game, it does tell you that they have the potential to buy your game. But if they are active on Xbox, it tells a dev that not only do they have a Xbox device, they are active on it so that you know that it's not just collecting dust, they have a more concrete number of people who could potentially buy your game in the Xbox ecosystem.
True, they definitely can say, yea, we sold this many Xbox Ones and people can compare it to the PS4 and see what their total userbase is, but not their active userbase. There's a reason why Facebook talks about monthly active users. You know how many Facebook accounts don't get used? That number is probably ridiculous as it pertains to the amount of accounts Facebook has. Advertisers look at what's active. It's actually no different than ratings. How many people are watching this show at this time?
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Papacheeks said:
Now that I rethought about what I said, I think they'll announce that they'll have new hardware but they won't show it until the MS hardware showcase (So Panos Panay can tell you about it...LOL) but I may be wrong as the Xbox Teams was at last years show but they didn't have hardware to show (as they may be ramping up their two year cycle...lololol, just speculation).
E3 to me, should really be about software of the platform and all about games. You announce a game and you tell them what MS devices it will be released on. That's the most clear and consise way to put it. No need to segregate their audience...you show the audience the game...get them excited for the game, it may make them get a console or PC because of it. Don't have a section that's just console and then another that's just PC. The show should always be about games games games. A little platform stuff but mostly games games games. In the beginning he can talk about the vision and what they are planning to do with Xbox (that's were he can say that they will have new hardware this year but won't show it until the MS showcase) but just games man. Hardware will have thier shine later (as they should).
Obliterator
Member
If you actually watch Spencer's talk there is zero question on "IF" this is happening. They are doing iterative hardware and moving away from the traditional console cycle strait up. I wonder when they will reveal the next step
I think this year...that would be ~2.5 years. And then you do another in 2 years (2018). Then in 2020, if you bought the first 'version' of the XBO, it would be time to upgrade if you want the newer games that take advantage of version 2016. That would be a ~6.5 year hardware cycle basically from launch. This year would be a perfect year to just do it all.
Exactly what I said. Isn't it great? (especially with XBO having BC)
Obliterator
Member
I wouldn't be surprised if we see it this year either. After all the way Spencer came out and talked about it now. Its almost like he is preparing everyone for what they are going to unveil and letting the idea really set in now, so its not a gigantic shock come E3
Yeah, this E3 has the potential to be freaking madness
PC has the majority of the gaming market (aside from mobile) AFAIK. Games sell extremely well. Has been the case since 7th gen.
clem84
Gold Member
That's really the crux of the matter. At first I wasn't on board either but I could see myself changing my mind about this. It's about how they enforce forward compatibility. If the devs are required to go back 5 years, regardless of how many models that amounts to, then I'm fine with it. But how likely is this? I don't have an iphone and don't buy games on the app store so maybe someone who does can share their experience here. Are games released right now compatible with 5 year old iphones? From what I've heard, iOS updates can sometimes cause apps to not function anymore. It seems Apple is having a hard time pulling this off. MS has to do a better job.
There's another issue. Is this good for the industry? In a time where many devs are struggling to survive and are doing whatever it takes to make ends meet, forcing them to program 5 years worth of backwards compatibility will put an additional burden on them. Some of them might do it to shut MS up but do a lousy job at it, and promise fixes that never come. Having a system that is and will remain closed for the next 5, 6 or 7 years makes everyone's lives a lot simpler.
The smartphone industry is often criticized for artificially creating demand. Just seeing the number of people obsessed with having the newest, marginally better, iphone is kinda proof of this. It will segment the userbase very badly and will complicate things for devs and customers. For what? having access to a marginally better performing console every year? Do we really need this? When GTAV came out, it was running on 7 and 8 year old hardware and it was amazing. I would argue that, at the point where we are in regards to gaming hardware technology, we aren't in dire need of additional processing power, nor do we need to complicate our hobby in this manner.
wapplew
Member
I think he talk about console games PC port, not PC exclusive.
What about multiplats? I don't know the sales comparisons of say TW3 so I can't make a statement other than I know PC gaming is absolutely massive on a scale that would have been unfathomable 10 years ago.
GameAddict411
Member
It's not feasible at all. The cost, and the fragmentation that this will cause is not worth it at all. And since games have to be forward and backward compatible, it's going to be a nightmare for developers. Also it introduced artificial limitations on what they could do with the new hardware since games have to be designed to work on the old hardware(similar to crossgen games).
Is touchscreen interaction of "flat" oblongs and squares massively different to shaded squares?
Look at the revolutionary nature of re skinning icons.
This is not the switch from keyboard/command tree to mouse/gui to touch screen gui's levels of revolutionary paradigm shift.
At this point I don't know if you're even being serious or not. Metro did a lot more than simply reskin icons. When I think of the changes that Metro brought, I don't see a simple reskin, I see a fundamental difference in design principles:
And even if the Zune is dead and WP is pretty much irrelevant in the market right now, they are design principles which I think went on to have a pretty significant effect on the competition
A lot of what Phil Spencer said about having a unifying OS instead of having a new OS for each new generation makes total sense and I think Sony and Nintendo will follow MS.
It makes me wonder why it wasn't done before.
I have my 500 GB XBO and I'm looking forward to seeing what new iterations of XBO are down the line. I'm almost certain we'll see a Slim model with more memory at E3.
My main concern is that somewhere down the line with these newer model Xbox One's being released down the line is that MS will start to ditch physical media.
Digital is where the industry is heading to a certain extent. We all see the sales figures and how digital sales are around 30-40% of most major software releases (not 100% sure on that). But I think you'll see digital sales peak and stay at around 45-65% in the next couple of years for a variety of reasons.
1.) People, including me, just like having physical copies of games and that will never change. I grew up buying physical copies of games and I enjoy the whole aspect of just going into a game store and buying a game.
When Napster was starting to hit a lot of people were predicting the death of physical CDs and while physical CD sales have dropped they're still at your local Best Buy. Except The Life of Pablo.
2.) Even with some of my digital games I'm not able to resell them.
3.) Download speeds/ISP in some parts of the USA, let alone the world, are slow as molasses and I think we'll see some sort of resistance from ISP companies to increase those speeds.
All in all though, like I said earlier in the post, what Phil Spencer was saying makes total sense for the console industry going forward.
tiredheadcrab
Member
I dont think we will see an updated SKU this year. They should wait for AMD's Polaris and Zen. Not sure if Zen will be ready by Q4 let alone mass production. That would make this a better upgrade than whatever they would release this year.
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