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[King Tubby]

Or black? Or any minority?

Or black for that matter

To be fair, Donald Trump has a great relationship with the Blacks. They were the white family down the street from his house when he was a kid.

 

[Poodlestrike]

I'm setting the party's platform. You reject candidates you disagree with, you vote for ones you agree with. I voted for the person I agree most with in the primaries, they have my data.

Now they burn.

Your plan to get money out of politics is the candidate running on a platform of "I got bored being the money manipulating politicians and decided to cut out the middleman."

This is your proposal.

Instead of a candidate who is in the thrall of special interests, your intention is to vote for the special interests themselves.


Also, I have to say, it's fitting that you picked the name you did. "Ideological purity or BURN IT ALL THE FUCK DOWN"

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Pretty normal for presidential candidates. I mean, it's demonstrably dumb, but if you don't give a little death penalty lip-service it's just another thing for your opponents to attack you on and turn focus to. I doubt it's something she cares enough about to do anything about it legislatively.



They do, but they've never gotten it.

I didn't hear that part, which pisses me off since I'm 100% for abolishing the death penalty, but is that true, that coming out against it will actually HURT you? in 2016? I hate this country sometimes.

 

[boiled goose]

I'm setting the party's platform. You reject candidates you disagree with, you vote for ones you agree with. I voted for the person I agree most with in the primaries, they have my data.

Now they burn.

I don't agree with you, but I understand where you are coming from.
I'd rather you vote blank or right in Bernie than vote for Trump though. That is just silly.

 

[danm999]

Seems impatient to throw the baby out with the bath water regarding protest voting Trump to me.

Sanders will not get the nomination, but he's easily defined what the next generation of Democratic candidates will sound like. There will be a Sanders in 2024 and beyond.

The question is, will their legislative agenda be DOA because enough people in 2016 decided to hand the next few decades of Supreme Court control to Donald Trump.

 

[Wreav]

Your plan to get money out of politics is the candidate running on a platform of "I got bored being the money manipulating politicians and decided to cut out the middleman."

This is your proposal.

Instead of a candidate who is in the thrall of special interests, your intention is to vote for the special interests themselves.


Also, I have to say, it's fitting that you picked the name you did. "Ideological purity or BURN IT ALL THE FUCK DOWN"

If Hill and Trump are the noms, voting for Hillary says "I want money in politics, this is OK to me as a Democratic voter"

If I help reject that platform and send Trump to the WH, the DNC has to scratch their heads and go, "gee, I wonder what made HRC so unlikeable that dems would literally vote for Hitler"

A vote for Trump isn't in support of a single goddamn thing HE stands for. It's against the things HRC stands for. It's not super hard to understand.

 

[boiled goose]

If Hill and Trump are the noms, voting for Hillary says "I want money in politics, this is OK to me as a Democratic voter"

If I help reject that platform and send Trump to the WH, the DNC has to scratch their heads and go, "gee, I wonder what made HRC so unlikeable that dems would literally vote for Hitler"

It's not super hard to understand.

That is one message they might get or maybe the message that maybe they should be more racist. That is why voting blank or writing in someone else is better.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

If Hill and Trump are the noms, voting for Hillary says "I want money in politics, this is OK to me as a Democratic voter"

If I help reject that platform and send Trump to the WH, the DNC has to scratch their heads and go, "gee, I wonder what made HRC so unlikeable that dems would literally vote for Hitler"

It's not super hard to understand.

This is selfish garbage.

 

[border]

If you were about to marry someone, but found out that they might be cheating on you and you asked for their texts as evidence, but they refused, wouldn't you be suspicious? Doesn't that say something about whether you can trust this person?

That seems like a pretty terrible metaphor. Clinton doesn't want those speeches unfairly used against her by the Republican presidential nominee. There's no way to translate that angle to a marriage metaphor.

That said, it seems ludicrous that a man or woman has supposed to divulge their private communications to any jealous or suspicious fiancee.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

If Hill and Trump are the noms, voting for Hillary says "I want money in politics, this is OK to me as a Democratic voter"

No it doesn't. It's saying "Hillary better aligns with issues more important to me than Trump does."

Do you not understand how this works?

Edit: To be honest though I'm not sure why I bothered responding. You sound like a lost cause.

 

[ugaboga232]

If Hill and Trump are the noms, voting for Hillary says "I want money in politics, this is OK to me as a Democratic voter"

If I help reject that platform and send Trump to the WH, the DNC has to scratch their heads and go, "gee, I wonder what made HRC so unlikeable that dems would literally vote for Hitler"

A vote for Trump isn't in support of a single goddamn thing HE stands for. It's against the things HRC stands for. It's not super hard to understand.

I understand your anger but why don't you vote for a 3rd party that more closely matches your views in that case?

 

[Steel]

I didn't hear that part, which pisses me off since I'm 100% for abolishing the death penalty, but is that true, that coming out against it will actually HURT you? in 2016? I hate this country sometimes.

Let me put it this way: even during the 2012 election Obama said that the Death Penalty is OK in certain circumstances. In 2015 he's gone on record that he doesn't like the death penalty.

I wonder why he had a change of heart?

 

[Boke1879]

If Hill and Trump are the noms, voting for Hillary says "I want money in politics, this is OK to me as a Democratic voter"

If I help reject that platform and send Trump to the WH, the DNC has to scratch their heads and go, "gee, I wonder what made HRC so unlikeable that dems would literally vote for Hitler"

A vote for Trump isn't in support of a single goddamn thing HE stands for. It's against the things HRC stands for. It's not super hard to understand.

Or you could vote Democrat. Who would put in a liberal judge in the SC and could potentially overturn something like citizens united and help do exactly what you want done.

 

[FLEABttn]

If I help reject that platform and send Trump to the WH, the DNC has to scratch their heads and go, "gee, I wonder what made HRC so unlikeable that dems would literally vote for Hitler"

So you're going to vote for Hitler?

 

[Blader]

If Hill and Trump are the noms, voting for Hillary says "I want money in politics, this is OK to me as a Democratic voter"

If I help reject that platform and send Trump to the WH, the DNC has to scratch their heads and go, "gee, I wonder what made HRC so unlikeable that dems would literally vote for Hitler"

It's not super hard to understand.

Yeah, brilliant. The DNC will look at those results on Election Day and go, "gee, a lot of Democrats went with Trump, guess that means we need to pivot harder to the right to win next time."

 

[MThanded]

We had this discussion before. A lot of people seem to care little about the social issues that Bernie mentions. A chunk of his voters only cares about the "getting money out of politics". A subset of these people are eating up the fairy tale that Trump is somehow doing the same thing.

They are fine with the social stances of the GOP. It's maddening.

 

[danm999]

If Hill and Trump are the noms, voting for Hillary says "I want money in politics, this is OK to me as a Democratic voter"

If I help reject that platform and send Trump to the WH, the DNC has to scratch their heads and go, "gee, I wonder what made HRC so unlikeable that dems would literally vote for Hitler"

A vote for Trump isn't in support of a single goddamn thing HE stands for. It's against the things HRC stands for. It's not super hard to understand.

And they may very well take away from it the answer is to be more right wing.

I mean, Occam's Razor for them will be their voters are abandoning them for Trump because they like what Trump is promising. Not because of some bizarre punishment strategy.

 

[Tranqueris]

hillary supports the death penalty!?

I think at one of the last debates she said something about only at the federal level for terrorists like Mcveigh.

Just looked it up.

“Yes, I do. And — you know, what I hope the Supreme Court will do is make it absolutely clear that any state that continues capital punishment either must meet the highest standards of evidentiary proof of effective assistance of counsel or they cannot continue it because that, to me, is the real dividing line.

“I have much more confidence in the federal system, and I do reserve it for particularly heinous crimes in the federal system, like terrorism.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opin...tial-debate-death-penalty-20160205-story.html

 

[Wreav]

Yeah, brilliant. The DNC will look at those results on Election Day and go, "gee, a lot of Democrats went with Trump, guess that means we need to pivot harder to the right to win next time."

A DNC that is more moderate wouldn't be the worst thing to ever happen. However, Hillary isn't the candidate to make that appealing.

Yes, I know that doesn't make much sense as a Bernie supporter in 2016.

 

[pigeon]

I honestly can't believe the apathy for Hillary's transcripts.

If you were about to marry someone, but found out that they might be cheating on you and you asked for their texts as evidence, but they refused, wouldn't you be suspicious? Doesn't that say something about whether you can trust this person?

Ridiculous.

I do, actually, want Clinton to release the transcripts -- this stuff is turning into classic Clinton self-sabotage, and she should just dump it and get it over with -- but this analogy is wildly insane.

If you actually think that Hillary is "cheating on" the American people with Wall Street, and that she was dumb enough to SAY SO in a speech to Goldman Sachs, then you have been watching way too much House of Cards.

This is just another litmus test issue.

If you already believe, as a lot of Bernie supporters do, that Hillary is fundamentally dishonest and a sellout, then these speeches and her refusal to release them confirms everything you already think about her.

But if you don't believe that, like most Hillary supporters, then this entire topic seems deeply bizarre and irrelevant. Without the priors prepping you to think she's evil, it's unclear why anybody cares even a little bit about this topic.

So, I mean, there you go. That's why people keep talking about it, and that's why, despite that, it just doesn't matter.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Let me put it this way: even during the 2012 election Obama said that the Death Penalty is OK in certain circumstances. In 2015 he's gone on record that he doesn't like the death penalty.

I wonder why the change of heart?

You think he actually loses votes because of that one issue? I'd be real disgusted if that was actually the case.

 

[border]

A vote for Trump isn't in support of a single goddamn thing HE stands for. It's against the things HRC stands for. It's not super hard to understand.

Why vote for a candidate that represents all the things you despise? You could just as easily cast a ballot for the Green Party or the Socialist Party.

 

[boiled goose]

A DNC that is more moderate wouldn't be the worst thing to ever happen. However, Hillary isn't the candidate to make that appealing.

Yes, I know that doesn't make much sense as a Bernie supporter in 2016.

More moderate????

The DNC is almost center right already with the GOP being far right....
What are you even talking about.

 

[Wreav]

Why vote for a candidate that represents all the things you despise? You could just as easily cast a ballot for the Green Party or the Socialist Party.

Because those are throwaway votes that don't affect the outcome of elections. Voting for the other party in an ostensibly 2 party system does, however.

 

[pigeon]

If Hill and Trump are the noms, voting for Hillary says "I want money in politics, this is OK to me as a Democratic voter"

If I help reject that platform and send Trump to the WH, the DNC has to scratch their heads and go, "gee, I wonder what made HRC so unlikeable that dems would literally vote for Hitler"

A vote for Trump isn't in support of a single goddamn thing HE stands for. It's against the things HRC stands for. It's not super hard to understand.

You understand that you're not allowed to include a signing statement with your vote, right?

If you vote for Trump, people will assume it's because you're a racist. Because you literally voted for more racism! That's kind of on you.

 

[Blader]

A DNC that is more moderate wouldn't be the worst thing to ever happen. However, Hillary isn't the candidate to make that appealing.

Yes, I know that doesn't make much sense as a Bernie supporter in 2016.

Of course it doesn't make sense, you're speaking literal nonsense.

I mean, a DNC that is more moderate? lol. Give me a break. The DNC has only just begun to creep out of the center and move toward the left in the last few years. Democrats have been the centrist party for decades already.

 

[MThanded]

I honestly can't believe the apathy for Hillary's transcripts.

If you were about to marry someone, but found out that they might be cheating on you and you asked for their texts as evidence, but they refused, wouldn't you be suspicious? Doesn't that say something about whether you can trust this person?

Ridiculous.

Despite how clean the speeches are, they will be twisted and used against her during the general. That's the real danger.

After this skirmish there will be a real war for the General election.

 

[stupei]

We had this discussion before. A lot of people seem to care little about the social issues that Bernie mentions. A chunk of his voters only cares about the "getting money out of politics". A subset of these people are eating up the fairy tale that Trump is somehow doing the same thing.

They are fine with the social stances of the GOP. It's maddening.

Apparently some are fine with voting in someone they describe as Hitler.

 

[MThanded]

A DNC that is more moderate wouldn't be the worst thing to ever happen. However, Hillary isn't the candidate to make that appealing.

Yes, I know that doesn't make much sense as a Bernie supporter in 2016.

Can you talk about your stance on social issues?

I'm interested.

 

[danm999]

You understand that you're not allowed to include a signing statement with your vote, right?

If you vote for Trump, people will assume it's because you're a racist. Because you literally voted for more racism! That's kind of on you.

It's not like after the Reagan whooping the DNC assumed they needed to go further left after all.

 

[Valhelm]

We had this discussion before. A lot of people seem to care little about the social issues that Bernie mentions. A chunk of his voters only cares about the "getting money out of politics". A subset of these people are eating up the fairy tale that Trump is somehow doing the same thing.

They are fine with the social stances of the GOP. It's maddening.

The terrifying reality is that most voters care more about personality than ideology.

 

[Steel]

You think he actually loses votes because of that one issue? I'd be real disgusted if that was actually the case.

Yeah, I do. The majority of Americans support the death penalty, still. A republican coming in and saying "I'll execute those damn criminals, but this guy will let them live on taxpayer money" constantly can lower the importance of other issues. A low information voter will believe that the judicial system is somehow perfect and that someone on death row costs less money to maintain than someone with life in prison.

Neither are true, but... That's not the issue.

 

[boiled goose]

I do, actually, want Clinton to release the transcripts -- this stuff is turning into classic Clinton self-sabotage, and she should just dump it and get it over with -- but this analogy is wildly insane.

If you actually think that Hillary is "cheating on" the American people with Wall Street, and that she was dumb enough to SAY SO in a speech to Goldman Sachs, then you have been watching way too much House of Cards.

This is just another litmus test issue.

If you already believe, as a lot of Bernie supporters do, that Hillary is fundamentally dishonest and a sellout, then these speeches and her refusal to release them confirms everything you already think about her.

But if you don't believe that, like most Hillary supporters, then this entire topic seems deeply bizarre and irrelevant. Without the priors prepping you to think she's evil, it's unclear why anybody cares even a little bit about this topic.

So, I mean, there you go. That's why people keep talking about it, and that's why, despite that, it just doesn't matter.

It's not about her specifically being a sellout and evil. It is her being ok and working within a system that is fundamentally corrupt.

Money in politics does not only influence politicians it influences constituents.
Should people and corporations with more money not only be able to "bribe" politicians, but sway the american people one way or the other? that is the issue.

Let's say Hillary was tougher on banks than she is now. Then Wall Street would stop donating to her and completely go hard in to the GOP. Would Hillary supporters be ok with that? Of course not.

How her supporters fail to see the problem is amazing to me.

 

[DragonSworne]

Democrats compromise and settle for shitty candidates while republicans revolt and get the shitty candidates they want. I wish the democratic voting base would take a page from republicans and demand a truly liberal candidate or else. We shouldn't be settling.

 

[hawk2025]

I really don't see what you guys are gaining from debating this with someone that has contradicted him/herself a good half dozen times or so in as many posts.


Let it go. You are trying to use logic where it doesn't apply.

 

[Blader]

You understand that you're not allowed to include a signing statement with your vote, right?

If you vote for Trump, people will assume it's because you're a racist. Because you literally voted for more racism! That's kind of on you.

Bingo. "A vote for Trump isn't a vote for what he stands for" is not how elections work. All votes cast for Trump are votes for what he stands for, regardless of the voter's intention.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Can you talk about your stance on social issues?

I'm interested.

I've seen a lot of ghosts when something like this is brought up with the burn it all down people, or just straight up Trump voters in general. (on Neogaf, outside people make it a bit more clear, and it's bad)

 

[Flying Toaster]

I despise Clinton. I love Sanders. I have a bit of an anarchist in me... As much as I despise the Democratic Party ignoring what I want I still would not vote for Trump.

I am not happy with what is happening but there is no freaking way I could vote for Trump. I understand how Wreav feels and I am not going to pile on the poster for feeling that way.

 

[pigeon]

It's not about her specifically being a sellout and evil. It is her being ok and working within a system that is fundamentally corrupt.

We only have one system! There is literally no alternative. Basically what this says is, it doesn't matter how many good things you accomplish or how many improvements you make to society when you're a national politician, you are already corrupt by virtue of being a national politician.

 

[MThanded]

GOP is going to get the vote out. Independent of the candidate most likely. They want to appoint a SCOTUS nominee and the have vilified the current POTUS heavily for the last 8 years. If democrats don't unify after the primaries then it's going to be bad.

 

[exmachina64]

Can you talk about your stance on social issues?

I'm interested.

This whole thing with Wreav has happened so many times that we can guess what his beliefs are.

If he's really liberal on social issues, it's completely subservient to things like campaign finance reform.

 

[Gattsu25]

Hillary lost my vote. I'm not voting for a person who prays multiple times a day.

I didn't watch the debate...what is this all about?

 

[border]

Because those are throwaway votes that don't affect the outcome of elections. Voting for the other party in an ostensibly 2 party system does, however.

As others have said, I think you greatly mistake the message that the Democratic party is going to get from a GE loss though. A vote for a Green/Socialist will show that there is growing support for a more-left agenda. A vote for Trump will just be characterized as another racist xenophobe mongoloid showing up the vote for his favorite reality TV star, not a need to get money out of politics.

I fully support people that are willing to vote with their conscience, but voting out of spite doesn't accomplish much of anything. If you want your ideals to be represented in the political spectrum, you have to actually vote for a candidate that represents those ideals.

 

[Wreav]

Can you talk about your stance on social issues?

I'm interested.

Pro single payer
Pro free undergrad tuition
Pro GLBT
Pro death penalty
Pro right to choose
Pro progressive tax reform on top 1% for redistribution of wealth
Pro drug legalization
Pro cutting defense budget and increasing infrastructure budget
Anti PAC/citizens united
Anti mexican wall
Anti mass deportation
Whiter than white bread and won't pretend to know what to do to improve race relations

 

[pigeon]

Pro single payer
Pro free undergrad tuition
Pro GLBT
Pro death penalty
Pro right to choose
Pro progressive tax reform on top 1% for redistribution of wealth
Pro drug legalization
Pro cutting defense budget and increasing infrastructure budget
Whiter than white bread and won't pretend to know what to do to improve race relations

This post is basically amazing because it shows that you literally don't know what social issues are.

 

[BradC00]

The terrifying reality is that most voters care more about personality than ideology.

trump is going to be president, isn't he

 

[Flying Toaster]

GOP is going to get the vote out. Independent of the candidate most likely. They want to appoint a SCOTUS nominee and the have vilified the current POTUS heavily for the last 8 years. If democrats don't unify after the primaries then it's going to be bad.

This cannot be expressed enough. The fact that voter turn out for the Dems is low right now is scary.

 

[boiled goose]

We only have one system! There is literally no alternative. Basically what this says is, it doesn't matter how many good things you accomplish or how many improvements you make to society when you're a national politician, you are already corrupt by virtue of being a national politician.

Yes. You are fundamentally corrupt by taking large donations by corporations and the wealthy.

You are correct.

Sanders is a national politician and he does not. It might not be practical, but it is possible.

Do you disagree that the current system is fundamentally corrupt? Should more money allow you to sway legislation and elections in your favor?

Is Hillary particularly corrupt? No. Is she corrupt? Hell yes. As is Obama. Most people around you also being corrupt does not make you not corrupt.

Is the GOP more corrupt? Yes.

 

[The Artisan]

Jesus christ so Clinton is Voldemort now?

is that really all you got from my post?

J.K Rowling went on record to say all the historic figures from our past whose goal was to be in control of things were always suspect people. That was one of the influences of the creation of Voldemort, yes, and I started off by saying I'm not a politics-savvy person, but that is the vibe I'm getting from her. In that power is her motivation.

 

[Boke1879]

Democrats compromise and settle for shitty candidates while republicans revolt and get the shitty candidates they want. I wish the democratic voting base would take a page from republicans and demand a truly liberal candidate or else. We shouldn't be settling.

Sorry but majority of Americans just aren't going to vote for Bernie. Hell the democratic base is rejecting him. From minorities onward.