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[CosmicQueso]

I don't get the point of making a PS4 that just aims for the 4K market when that model of TV's penetration is low.

That's what Nintendo thought when it launched the Wii.

Let's assume PS5 is in development. When it launches, years from now, clearly the goal would be to have native 4k output since the installed base of 4k TVs will be much higher at that point.

As many posters have pointed out, going after that kind of target prior to around 2019 is very cost prohibitive.

So, when would it not be so cost prohibitive? 2020? 20211? That's a 7 or 8 year cycle. Feels about right, no?

But today, it's 2016. That's 4 or 5 years to go. 4 to 5 years of 4k TVs that need to be sold and then supported.

How do you do that if the PS5 is so far out if not with an iteration on the existing hardware?

 

[Bl4ckSunsh1n3]

Well maybe it's not this place and just your attitude? I'm actually not too keen on the idea myself, and I'm definitely not planning on upgrading anytime soon, but I'm also not being childish about it and waiting to see what is actually revealed.

Yes, I'm being childish because I'm stating my opinion on it in the event that it does exist. It's not the person calling it illogical without actually reading any of it.

 

[ZOONAMI]

That's what Nintendo thought when it launched the Wii.

Let's assume PS5 is in development. When it launches, years from now, clearly the goal would be to have native 4k output since the installed base of 4k TVs will be much higher at that point.

As many posters have pointed out, going after that kind of target prior to around 2019 is very cost prohibitive.

So, when would it not be? 2021? That's an 8 year cycle. Feels about right, no?

But today, it's 2016. That's 5 years to go. 5 years of 4k TVs that need to be sold and then supported.

How do you do that if the PS5 is 5 years away?

I seriously doubt the ps5 is 5 years away. They could have another ps4 revision, and then ps5, well within 5 years if this ps4.5 actually comes out this fall.

 

[Bgamer90]

Nah man...because it exist means I'm getting screwed over. Don't you get the logic? Lol

Getting "screwed over" would mean Sony literally dropping the PS4 with every game becoming a PS4.5 exclusive. I would definitely understand getting mad if the rumors were stating that. As long as there's compatibility then no one is getting screwed. A person staying with their PS4 wouldn't be doing anything different in comparison to if the PS4.5 didn't exist -- They would still be buying/playing new games on their PS4. Some are simply upset that they may possibly not have the "best". If you don't like feeling that way then don't buy tech early.

 

[rokkerkory]

maybe it's just with VR h/w included inside the PS4?

 

[CosmicQueso]

I seriously doubt the ps5 is 5 years away. They could have another ps4 revision, and then ps5, well within 5 years if this ps4.5 actually comes out this fall.

Sure, they could. But at what price point? They're not going to $599 again. And they're certainly in no rush to bring a PS5 given just how dominant PS4 is.

 

[MaDKaT]

A 4k scaler is pointless, as your TV already has a scaler, only people that would be helpful to is people using monitors.

I guess scaler is the wrong word, native 4K BR player, maybe the games will run at native 4K really no other enhancements. Wouldnt be the first time Sony did something like that.

 

[injurai]

Getting "screwed over" would mean Sony literally dropping the PS4 with every game becoming a PS4.5 exclusive. I would definitely understand getting mad if the rumors were stating that. As long as there's compatibility then no one is getting screwed. A person staying with their PS4 wouldn't be doing anything different in comparison to if the PS4.5 didn't exist -- They would still be buying/playing new games on their PS4. Some are simply upset that they may possibly not have the "best". If you don't like feeling that way then don't buy tech early.

I think people just don't like the idea of not having the best thing, wishing they had waited to improve the cost of their investment.

It's like the Xbox 360 revisions all over again. Which people gobbled up. Just this time the added features would improve graphics, and we all know that people put extra value on graphics.

 

[Gurish]

I like the idea of an upgraded PS4 however I'm not convinced about 4k. I'd rather have 1080p at 60 fps (or 30) with all the bells and all the whistles enabled. Like dynamic fluids, smoke, fire, better destruction etc...

Coupled with perhaps a svogi, these effects would increase immersion far mre than 4k ever could.

Agree completely, I even want PS5 to target 1080P but gettting closer to CGI fidelity, much more important and immersive than to play a slightly better looking games at 4K.

 

[RootCause]

maybe it's just with VR h/w included inside the PS4?

is the vr hardware small enough to fit in there?

 

[OléGunner]

That's what Nintendo thought when it launched the Wii.

Let's assume PS5 is in development. When it launches, years from now, clearly the goal would be to have native 4k output since the installed base of 4k TVs will be much higher at that point.

As many posters have pointed out, going after that kind of target prior to around 2019 is very cost prohibitive.

So, when would it not be so cost prohibitive? 2020? 20211? That's a 7 or 8 year cycle. Feels about right, no?

But today, it's 2016. That's 4 or 5 years to go. 4 to 5 years of 4k TVs that need to be sold and then supported.

How do you do that if the PS5 is so far out if not with an iteration on the existing hardware?

I agree there about taking advantage of 4K technology.
Nintendo dropped the ball on HDTV.

So then why not just release a PS5 in 2018 with all the capabilities you mentioned and then some instead of just this half step measure that invariably fractures and potentially confuses the massive user base?

Also I do not see the chomping at the bit in general to get into 4K TV's like we got with SD-->HD upgrades in 2005+.
Of course I'm no market expert and this is tales from my arse but yeah.

 

[injurai]

Agree completely, I even want PS5 to target 1080P but gettting closer to CGI fidelity, much more important and immersive than to play a slightly better looking games at 4K.

But increased frame rate and resolution seems exactly like the type of bump that would be fitting for a "4.5" revision. Anything more and they might as well just release the PS5.

 

[onQ123]

If Zoetis is correct we are back to the new system basically just being a refresh with 4k scaler and BR player? Similar to when the PS2 was updated to progressive scan and the PSP2000 hardware refresh with games largely being unaffected.

Did you not see when he said it wasn't upscale?
'

 

[Hubble]

It would be funny if all these rumos turns to be the ps4 slim.

Likely.

 

[Bgamer90]

I think people just don't like the idea of not having the best thing, wishing they had waited to improve the cost of their investment.

It's like the Xbox 360 revisions all over again. Which people gobbled up. Just this time the added features would improve graphics, and we all know that people put extra value on graphics.

Agreed. And I'm sure there will be some trade-in deals if this exists anyway so it's not like early adopters would have to pay full price if they wanted it.

 

[cakely]

Did you not see when he said it wasn't upscale?
'

I saw that but I just can't bring myself to believe it. We are not going to be seeing a game console that can play games in native 4k in 2016, or 2017, there's no way.

 

[Curufinwe]

Likely.

Yeah, a PS4.1 makes more sense.

 

[farisr]

It would be funny if all these rumos turns to be the ps4 slim.

It'll be even funnier if during the e3 conference, Sony reveals the PS4 slim causing all the people (some who were even convinced that this was for ps4.5 but will try to say otherwise) to go "see I was right, it was the ps4 slim" and then a short while later also unveil the PS4.5.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

Reads like a legit rumor to me. Kotaku wouldn't lie about talking to 'multiple sources and industry insiders' for click bait due to the Gawker implosion. This is real and it's happening.gif

Annnnnnnd I'm buying one (as long as i can get $150 trade in value for my PS4). Even $100 would be fine...

 

[TheCanisDirus]

Yeah screw 4k... give me over 60 fps on all titles with 1080p and i'll be happy!

 

[MogCakes]

This is turning into the iterative thread all over again.

 

[labx]

It'll be even funnier if during the e3 conference, Sony reveals the PS4 slim causing all the people (some who were even convinced that this was for ps4.5 but will try to say otherwise) to go "see I was right, it was the ps4 slim" and then a short while later also unveil the PS4.5.

That would not be funny. That would be a dick move from SONY. And possible a suicidal move because their fan base will turn beast mode.

 

[onQ123]

WUP & WUA is Microsoft's scale-able HSA instruction languages & I'm guessing that Sony will start to use their scale-able HSA instruction language that will work on PS4 & PS4.5 if they haven't already been using a scale-able HSA instruction language to begin with.

 

[MaDKaT]

Did you not see when he said it wasn't upscale?
'

I revised further down. 4K native BR player. Maybe games are run at 4K. Wouldnt be the first time Sony has done something like this. Aside from resolution, games were unaffected.

 

[CosmicQueso]

So then why not just release a PS5 in 2018 with all the capabilities you mentioned.

Primarily cost. The tech needed for native 4k at good framerates may still be prohibitively high. But you also have the PS4 lifecycle still going quite strong at that point, seems like it'd be cutting sales a bit early when they're in a very comfortable market leading position.

I can understand all the drawbacks people are pointing out though, and something like this might be a disaster, or what it actually might be could be no big deal. Heck, they might even call it a slim, include the new 4k features in the new base unit at the same price point and then is it really any big deal? Will be a fascinating next couple of months.

 

[vg260]

Yeah screw 4k... give me over 60 fps on all titles with 1080p and i'll be happy!

Same. That's the sweet sport for me. I don't want a more powerful model if they're just going to burn it on resolution upgrades to 4k.

 

[platina]

That mgs comparison would go something like this ( if the ps4 version has maxed out textures like pc)
4k native

1080p downsample from 4k

PS4 1080p PNG

 

[jmdajr]

PS3/360 were basically all 720p games or less.

PS4 is finally 1080p.

Sure we have 4k now, and the entry price is much lower than they were for when HD first started out, but content is still not there really. I don't think my internet connection can even handle Netflix 4k.

Plus if I am going to get a 4k TV..it needs to be AT LEAST 80 inches. And that is still too cost prohibitive. When I can get one for 2000 bucks. Sure!

 

[onQ123]

That mgs comparison would go something like this ( if the ps4 version has maxed out textures like pc)
4k native

1080p downsample from 4k

PS4 1080p PNG

What a downgrade PS4 is missing assets where did the woman go?

 

[RoboPlato]

That mgs comparison would go something like this ( if the ps4 version has maxed out textures like pc)
4k native
http://1ertvb136xj1277r411b8hw78wp.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/tilt1.png[IMG]
[B]1080p downsample from 4k[/B]
[IMG]http://i.cubeupload.com/fahQnt.png[IMG]
[B]PS4 1080p PNG[/B]
[IMG]http://i.cubeupload.com/UbOrEQ.png[IMG][/QUOTE]
Damn, PS4 can't even render Quiet. Fucking underpowered consoles.

 

[Milly Osworth]

It'll be even funnier if during the e3 conference, Sony reveals the PS4 slim causing all the people (some who were even convinced that this was for ps4.5 but will try to say otherwise) to go "see I was right, it was the ps4 slim" and then a short while later also unveil the PS4.5.

It will be even funnier if the PS4.5 turns out to be the Xbox One.5 made by Nintendo.

 

[Substandard]

For me, I think it's a frustrating idea, even if I could probably afford to buy the new revisions.

It is one thing to just put a 4k blu-ray player in it and allow it to upscale to 4k / include the VR box. I'd be OK with this. This would be like when they came out with the Xbox with the HDMI port.

It is a huge deal if it is actually a more powerful console where the games run differently / better/ or not at all on the old version (the new 3DS required type thing). Primarily because it violates the whole presumed advantage of consoles over the PC environment. Once you get your console, it should be good for the whole generation.

It completely destroys what is already a tenuous value proposition if I'm going to have to move to a smart phone-like model where I have to upgrade it for $400 every 2 years or get a significantly worse experience.

The new consoles barely have enough exclusive games on them to justify the purchase, and most of the "current gen" titles already run / look noticeably worse than their PC counterparts. The locked in hardware without the need to upgrade for 5+ years is the main thing they have going for them.

I don't think I'll ever buy another console if they move to annual hardware upgrades.

 

[potatohead]

What a downgrade PS4 is missing assets where did the woman go?

She not even gonna give you the time of day you 1080p plebs.

 

[jeffram]

It completely destroys what is already a tenuous value proposition if I'm going to have to move to a smart phone-like model where I have to upgrade it for $400 every 2 years or get a significantly worse experience.

It's just a matter of what your comparison set is. Most games are multi-platform and on PC and developed on PC. You are getting a "worse" experience no matter what.

Giving developers another SKU to optimize for does not make your game or experience worse, it allows them to put the technology they already have in their PC builds into a console port.

Being "king of the consoles" is something you can shoot for, and set your expectations at, I suppose. Just don't pretend like you bought a PS4 at launch and expected there wen't going to be high fidelity options for the same games you were going to play.

 

[jmdajr]

For me, I think it's a frustrating idea, even if I could probably afford to buy the new revisions.

It is one thing to just put a 4k blu-ray player in it and allow it to upscale to 4k / include the VR box. I'd be OK with this. This would be like when they came out with the Xbox with the HDMI port.

It is a huge deal if it is actually a more powerful console where the games run differently / better/ or not at all on the old version (the new 3DS required type thing). Primarily because it violates the whole presumed advantage of consoles over the PC environment. Once you get your console, it should be good for the whole generation.

It completely destroys what is already a tenuous value proposition if I'm going to have to move to a smart phone-like model where I have to upgrade it for $400 every 2 years or get a significantly worse experience.

The new consoles barely have enough exclusive games on them to justify the purchase, and most of the "current gen" titles already run / look noticeably worse than their PC counterparts. The locked in hardware without the need to upgrade for 5+ years is the main thing they have going for them.

I don't think I'll ever buy another console if they move to annual hardware upgrades.

The whole point of the console is value. You get something that can play games for 5 years at least, and they look better over time as they learn the hardware.

It's also for people who don't care for pc gaming. Don't care to upgrade your own computer, or buy a new computer, or just deal with the PC-ness of it all.

Although this yes, might be more of a tablet/phone upgrade path. Interference still simple, don't have to open anything etc. But really....value starts to go out the window.
I don't know if my Galaxy Note will last 2 more years but it better! I don't want to buy a new one.

 

[Samurai G0SU]

I'd buy a 4k tv if my console could output games in 4k. it's the reason why i bought a 1080p set when i purchsed my x360.

 

[jeffram]

I'd buy a 4k tv if my console could output games in 4k. it's the reason why i bought a 1080p set when i purchsed my x360.

I would feel the urge as well. My current plan was to wait for the OLED LGs to be affordable to jump into 4K. I don't think that's going to happen before the PS4K comes out.. if it does.

 

[jmdajr]

I'd buy a 4k tv if my console could output games in 4k. it's the reason why i bought a 1080p set when i purchsed my x360.

Most 360 games don't even run at that. But stuff like 1080pNetflix did. Vudu. etc.

 

[Blanquito]

And they're certainly in no rush to bring a PS5 given just how dominant PS4 is.

Hm, but with Sony's recent focus on being profitable on hardware (PS4, PSVR), why wouldn't they be ok with pushing out the PS5 as soon as it reaches a good price point and is profitable? Especially if it's backwards compatible.

It's been said before, but the Sony of today is different than the Sony of PS3 era. I think that this new Sony is seeing things in a different way and that means different execution from what has happened in the past.

 

[RootCause]

Could the ps4.5 improve performance of already released games?

 

[jmdajr]

Hm, but with Sony's recent focus on being profitable on hardware (PS4, PSVR), why wouldn't they be ok with pushing out the PS5 as soon as it reaches a good price point and is profitable? Especially if it's backwards compatible.

It's been said before, but the Sony of today is different than the Sony of PS3 era. I think that this new Sony is seeing things in a different way and that means different execution from what has happened in the past.

a 399 PS5 in 2019 that plays all PS4 games?

Don't have too much of an issue with that.

 

[injurai]

Could the ps4.5 improve performance of already released games?

Depends on how the game was written and compiled.

 

[MicSte79]

Console Civil Wars...

Genuinely made me laugh, thanks!

 

[LordOfChaos]

I'd buy a 4k tv if my console could output games in 4k. it's the reason why i bought a 1080p set when i purchsed my x360.

Funny, the reason I stuck it out on a 720P TV for the whole 360 gen was 90% of games ran at or below it anyways. I do have a nice 1080P LED hooked up to the PS4 now though.


The difference in response times is pretty amazing. I didn't even know half of the games weren't supposed to have the shitty pixel crawl motion blur the old TV added, heh. And I thought I didn't care about TV display latency until I got a TV with low latency, going back to the old one feels so sluggish now (new one is a Vizio E series, nice now latency on some of them)

 

[Substandard]

It's just a matter of what your comparison set is. Most games are multi-platform and on PC and developed on PC. You are getting a "worse" experience no matter what.

Giving developers another SKU to optimize for does not make your game or experience worse, it allows them to put the technology they already have in their PC builds into a console port.

Being "king of the consoles" is something you can shoot for, and set your expectations at, I suppose. Just don't pretend like you bought a PS4 at launch and expected there wen't going to be high fidelity options for the same games you were going to play.

I know what you are saying, but it was somewhat surprising to me that the PC was essentially already ahead when the consoles launched. Previous generations the PC had to sort of catch up over time. 360 games didn't really have a lot of better looking PC ports until the last 3-4 years of the console life.

My main point though, was that if I wanted the high fidelity option currently I'd be playing on PC (and I generally am). The nice thing about the consoles is that they have traditionally provided good value for a lower entry cost than the PC market without the need to upgrade for 5-7 years. That goes away on a 2-year upgrade cycle.

I'm in a position where I have every console for the exclusives and a good PC though, which makes it a lot easier to just dump the consoles if they start iterating too fast. I'm already paying the $400 entry fee essentially for the ability to play Destiny, Uncharted 4, Bloodborne, etc. and a few things with my friends who only have consoles. I'm not buying 2-3 boxes per generation for that.

 

[meanspartan]

I really hope this doesn't happen. Or if it does, I want it to be nothing more than a fancy upscaler that makes Ps4 games run at equivalent settings and framerate, but at 4k. That would be perfectly fine by me. But if baseline Ps4 owners are getting a lesser experience than Ps4K at 720p/1080p, that is shitty.

Another complicating factor is PSVR, which I have preordered. I am not so sure about dropping an already substantial $550 (cuz tax) if it means that in a year or so I will need to also buy a Ps4.5 so my VR experience isn't shit.

Don't fucking do this Sony. One of the biggest plusses of consoles is knowing that when you buy it, it will play all games for that console as good as any other Ps4 for the rest of its lifespan. I don't want to be upgrading my console every other year like it's a phone.

 

[omonimo]

I really hope this doesn't happen. Or if it does, I want it to be nothing more than a fancy upscaler that makes Ps4 games run at equivalent settings and framerate, but at 4k. That would be perfectly fine by me. But if baseline Ps4 owners are getting a lesser experience than Ps4K at 720p/1080p, that is shitty.

Another complicating factor is PSVR, which I have preordered. I am not so sure about dropping an already substantial $550 (cuz tax) if it means that in a year or so I will need to also buy a Ps4.5 so my VR experience isn't shit.

Don't fucking do this Sony. One of the biggest plusses of consoles is knowing that when you buy it, it will play all games for that console as good as any other Ps4 for the rest of its lifespan. I don't want to be upgrading my console every other year like it's a phone.

I think lot of people here has misunderstood what a plus model means. In theory games are developed with the base model in mind. The plus model should simply output the game at better res or fps (which I prefer). Of course if it mean basically to introduce a new higher common denominator, no one would appreciate. It's a commercial suicide imo.

 

[jeffram]

I know what you are saying, but it was somewhat surprising to me that the PC was essentially already ahead when the consoles launched. Previous generations the PC had to sort of catch up over time. 360 games didn't really have a lot of better looking PC ports until the last 3-4 years of the console life.

My main point though, was that if I wanted the high fidelity option currently I'd be playing on PC (and I generally am). The nice thing about the consoles is that they have traditionally provided good value for a lower entry cost than the PC market without the need to upgrade for 5-7 years. That goes away on a 2-year upgrade cycle.

I'm in a position where I have every console for the exclusives and a good PC though, which makes it a lot easier to just dump the consoles if they start iterating too fast. I'm already paying the $400 entry fee essentially for the ability to play Destiny, Uncharted 4, Bloodborne, etc. and a few things with my friends who only have consoles. I'm not buying 2-3 boxes per generation for that.

That's what I don't get. You don't have to buy 2-3 per generation. Sony isn't asking you to do that if you don't want to. If anything, having the stop gap system that will play the same game discs only serves to lengthen the life of the console you did buy. PS5 doesn't need to come as quickly, and you know Sony isn't going to turn their back on 50m PS4s out there.

I think that people are jumping the gun on the speculation that PS4 ports will suffer. It's still going to be the breadwinner, and will be the most optimized SKU due to install base.

 

[Samurai G0SU]

Funny, the reason I stuck it out on a 720P TV for the whole 360 gen was 90% of games ran at or below it anyways. I do have a nice 1080P LED hooked up to the PS4 now though.


The difference in response times is pretty amazing. I didn't even know half of the games weren't supposed to have the shitty pixel crawl motion blur the old TV added, heh. And I thought I didn't care about TV display latency until I got a TV with low latency, going back to the old one feels so sluggish now (new one is a Vizio E series, nice now latency on some of them)

I forgot to mention more so for my blu-ray ps3 player with the 1080p tv. it was a great moment when i watched my first hd movie in home. mmmmm yeahhhh

 

[RootCause]

Depends on how the game was written and compiled.

I see thanks.