The idea of making everything forward compatible allows Japanese developers to have a dedicated customer base going forward. I think Sony is shifting to more of an ecosystem a la Apple and android. Having the PS4 as a base and the 4K as a premium experience for those that desire that. Everyone will be able to buy the same games and play together. Developers won't have to worry about starting all over again, well until the PS5, but who knows how that will work. It is exciting to see the possibilities going forward.
totally agree that now people will have an excuse to use when there are bad ports where developers are to blame but i guess Sony and MS are to blame as well as they could take a tougher stand when it comes to letting these games release in the state they are.
Well, we live in the era of day one patches and updates which is already bad news cause some games are not ready to launch but they do.
Sony told on GDC they would personally help developers on with PSVR games to assure quality, but they never did this before. I know it's because people's health. We don't have this control on pcs so I think the best help Sony and Microsoft could offer is to not complicate things for developers send their patches. Well, could be wrong I'm no tech expert.
Up rendering & it will happen for about the same price as the PS4 from 2 1/2 years ago.
Something to think about is the fact that PSVR is going to have some native 1080P 120fps games on the normal PS4 that's the same amount of power needed to run 4K 30fps.
Up rendering & it will happen for about the same price as the PS4 from 2 1/2 years ago.
Something to think about is the fact that PSVR is going to have some native 1080P 120fps games on the normal PS4 that's the same amount of power needed to run 4K 30fps.
"Amount of power needed to run" isn't just pixels mulitplied by framerate. That's just fill-rate and there are a lot of other things that can limit a game's performance.
"Amount of power needed to run" isn't just pixels mulitplied framerate. That's just fill-rate and there are a lot of other things that can limit a game's performance.
Up rendering & it will happen for about the same price as the PS4 from 2 1/2 years ago.
Something to think about is the fact that PSVR is going to have some native 1080P 120fps games on the normal PS4 that's the same amount of power needed to run 4K 30fps.
"Some" is hard to define... but I think extra power wont be used for native 120fps, Sony already said they were very happy with reprojection. I think extra power will be used to bring extra fidelity to the games, make them look better.
"Amount of power needed to run" isn't just pixels mulitplied framerate. That's just fill-rate and there are a lot of other things that can limit a game's performance.
I'm sure Sony , AMD & Cadence or whoever is involve with it know the shortcomings & what is needed to be addressed so if they have their heart set on running 4K they will pull it off.
they dont make money on hardware (if you calculate R&D, marketing, etc, they lose money), so it is in their best interest for PS4 to keep playing "current" games for as long as possible. Technically, there is no reason to have exclusive games because PS4 is well thought of system with 8GB of RAM which would have been largest bottleneck in the future.
It is similar and yet different from PC where there is no reason for developers not support PC from 2012 (and they all do) yet with Playstation, there are only 2 variations and base one is well designed system.
I wonder if PS5 will also be compatible with PS4... it only makes sense and especially for Sony, thats in their best interest.
Future PC: 2 CPU manufactures with more SKU's each than I have fingers at speeds from <1Ghz to >4Ghz. 3 GPU manufactures with 3-4 current product ranges each and multiple speed/memory configurations.
You want to choose components why? Surely if it's that important you'd be a hardcore PC gamer already?
PC comes with the benefit of cheaper games and a completely open platform to go along with its upgrades. You have to realize that console gaming's grip on gamers is becoming more and more tenuous as the years go by. The overall market is shrinking. Many people are already both PC/console gamers in the hardcore sect. I keep seeing people talk about PC upgrading like it's this big boogeyman, and it's rather funny. People don't game on console over PC just because they're afraid of upgrading or are confused by it. Let's call that for what it is, yeah? A narrative.
Hence why I edited to say 'some'. Sure there are those who needed that push to do so for PC, but there are just as many being very disingenuous (just reacting and not being 100% honest). Again, you are not forced to upgrade anything, supposedly. At this point it is the envy or want playing a role as well.
I did not say I did not understand, clearly I said I get that people needed that 'push', what I said is there are those who are being disingenuous as well. Not everyone saying, "I am going PC" is 'telling the truth'.
Never said they did. Would it surprise you to learn I'm a network architect by trade and have been stripping down and rebuilding PC's since I was in my late teens, some 20yrs ago? I've been a PC gamer, hell I still play the odd PC game (Civ 5 anyone). I choose to be a console gamer.
Which pretty much sums up the point I was making. PC gaming hasn't changed. It's still there and if someone wanted to game on PC, well they'll probably be already doing it. The complexities of upgrading PC's haven't changed. Sony having two console models on the market doesn't change how PC's function.
Saying Sony releasing a second model makes the console space so complicated that it'll drive people to PC is a blatant over reaction. I was merely pointing that out in my usual long winded style.
Saying Sony releasing a second model makes the console space so complicated that it'll drive people to PC is a blatant over reaction. I was merely pointing that out in my usual long winded style.
It doesn't surprise me at all lol. Many people choose console over PC because they have to deal with PCs all day or work on them all day in a cubicle. That isn't related to the upgrade aspect though.
I think the part of a frequent iterative model that would cause people to rethink their gaming options is the bang-for-buck value. If they now have the option to upgrade to a new console refresh or upgrade a PC part, they will compare them and weigh the pros and cons. I doubt console gaming would see a huge exodus gutting it of its hardcore player base, but I can envision many people who are either already PC/console gamers or are curious about getting into PC switching to being primarily PC gamers whereas they may have been primarily console gamers before. It would mean there are far less early adopters as many more people will now wait until consoles are on the cheap to buy in.
EDIT: Civ 5 is great. I've always preferred the more war-oriented RTS genre.
I'm sure Sony , AMD & Cadence or whoever is involve with it know the shortcomings & what is needed to be addressed so if they have their heart set on running 4K they will pull it off.
Offer a robust trading program, and I could see this *maybe* working. The other fear is highly unoptimized games that would shit the bed on the OG PS4 since the devs were optimising for the higher-end model instead.
Another problem is that with this iterative hardware model, the console will never hit that sweet-spot $150-$200 pricepoint. Perhaps the weaker units will, but is that the kind of confusion you want to instill in customers? Will they keep making the cheaper model in wake of the new one? So many questions.
Why intentionally do anything that will effect possible sales when negative reviews get out?
Another problem is that with this iterative hardware model, the console will never hit that sweet-spot $150-$200 pricepoint. Perhaps the weaker units will, but is that the kind of confusion you want to instill in customers?
Honestly we should stop with all the wild speculation and just wait for Sony to show their hand. For all we know they just let this info slip to gauge consumer reaction and may never even bother to release it.
Honestly we should stop with all the wild speculation and just wait for Sony to show their hand. For all we know they just let this info slip to gauge consumer reaction and may never even bother to release it.
For the first point agreed. Sadly, even though some games now are not performing as smooth as they should/could, the very same performance issues will be blamed on 'laziness' cause of the PS4K or Xbox One.Five. There is always a war of mindset, justification, and narrative. If it logically makes sense, but goes against one's perception, then the cognitive dissonance kicks in. Thus forming a new narrative enough to justify one's perceived reality. We are all innately guilty of this, from time to time.
As far as the second part, I can see this, or possibly the new slim replaces the current PS4 stock eventually with the rumored performance upgrades.
It probably wouldn't be 'I won't ever play consoles again! Cold turkey' for as many people, but I can definitely see it being 'I'll become PC primary and phase out of consoles unless there's an absolute must-have exclusive I want to play, and only when the console is cheap', which many are already on the fence about and which I think more would be tempted to opt for if the manufacturers switch to this model.
A move to shorter iterations would, to me, signal an acceptance of the market shrinkage and a move towards niche appeal. Only dedicated console enthusiasts would buy every refresh; most will wait until they absolutely have to upgrade, or only for a specific exclusive. What this means is way less early adopters (but a solid core of early adopters willing to spend more), thus a much smaller initial install base for each new refresh and much less console launch hype for each release.
Na I don't want to argue...but I've stated as such saying that if I were a PC gamer I would always want the best hardware possible, and that means buying new hardware fairly often, which is why I'm not a PC gamer, why I am a console gamer, and why I might stop being a gamer.
Your second point doesn't make a lot of sense either, but I'm not going down that path.
It's fine if it doesn't make sense to you, because it's just me being me. It's worked out for me my entire life being a gamer.
The inexplicable need of people to "Max" settings on PC at the detriment of performance, yet be perfectly content accepting what ever presets developers give you on consoles.
That's exactly it...for the past 3 generations it's been a preset and I've enjoyed quality games for 5-7 years. On the same hardware. I've invested in the same set of hardware, for 5-7 years, not having to worry about upgrading in the same generation.
Your basically saying that when it was just the PS4 you could ignore the superior PC performance, but you can't ignore the PS4.5?
Yes? PC is a different platform with its own market of how things work. It's always superior, at a cost. There are other reasons why I don't game on PC but that's not relevant here.
I'll say this. If this was 100% rumor and Sony had no intentions of this, I'd say all this commotion has their attention now. Wouldn't that be something?
PS4K release: Holidays 2016 $400 to $500.
Regular PS4 price drop to: $300
All games present and future to run on all iterations of PS4. PS4K is Blu Ray 4K compatible. Average console consumer is pleased with the lower price and doesn't give a rats ass about 4K, continue buying core PS4. A few annoyed hardcore PS4 gamers not wanting to spend money to upgrade. Which is fine, they'll still get what they paid for if Sony does it right. Other hardcore PS4 gamers with a 4K tv where budget isn't much of an issue will jump all over this.
They can only do this if developers don't dupe the regular PS4 version of said game. If we start to see the Xbox One multiplats outperform PS4 vs PS4K blowing all of them out of the water we know we have a problem. Long story short, this can happen if Sony does it right and I personally embrace it. I want to see my 4K tv shine and I don't want to wait until next generation to see it.
Since this revision seems to be something that is going to happen regardless i really hope that Sony doesn't treat it as a new platform and just as a revision as Slim versions were in the past but with some perks.
Pushing consoles in the direction of phone upgrades it's pretty upsetting to me not because i need to have the best console, but because how it will eventually change the ecosystem.
Looking at other platforms with similar models you can already predict that this will not make games "prettier" or more "advanced" but instead would make crossgen games to be a constant state and advancements in technology on this consoles will never reflect what the hardware can really do, by then there will be no reason to not just game on PC instead besides exclusives.
Nobody likes to have the short end of the stick, but this will be the constant situation if you are an early adopter of consoles going forward, pretty grim future i really don't get the exitmment about it.
Phones apps are really not that much more advanced because yearly refreshes so i don't see were the logic is for me to be exited about this.
The simplest way to explain this box is that it's a glorified HDMI splitter, with 3D audio processing within.
It is possible that this comes built in with PS4K, but that doesn't make it PS4K alone. This could come fitted with HDMI 2.0 which would help in 4K, but that's it.
Have they confirmed the specs for the processing box i.e. which HDMI model it's using?
Wouldn't developers be able to patch it in once the hardware is known? How are x86 games payable on PC with all types of different setups? I honestly thought as long as it's x86, it wouldn't be hard for developers to make things 'compatible'.
Even then, BC is a non issue for me. It's something that sounds good in theory but in my experience is rarely taken advantage of. To each their own though
The simplest way to explain this box is that it's a glorified HDMI splitter, with 3D audio processing within.
It is possible that this comes built in with PS4K, but that doesn't make it PS4K alone. This could come fitted with HDMI 2.0 which would help in 4K, but that's it.
Have they confirmed the specs for the processing box i.e. which HDMI model it's using?
The Panasonic custom HDMI chip supports up to 120 FPS which a coming UHD Blu-ray standard will use and will be used for VR. 120FPS is a HDMI 2 mode and is supported by the launch PS4. Video processing for the VR goggles takes place in Southbridge, the breakout box just provides a HDMI out for a TV and Video out for the goggles. HDMI 2 also support two video streams from the PS4 but HDMI 1.4 doesn't support this so you need the breakout box to separate the two, one for the TV and one for the goggles. The TV needs HDMI 1.4 60 FPS maximum while the VR goggles need 120 FPS with the video distorted for the goggles. Inside Southbridge before the framerate is doubled and video distorted for the googles you have the 60 FPS undistorted video for the TV. Both video streams could exit the PS4 via the HDMI port and the breakout box separates the two. Yes this could easily be supported in the new PS4 eliminating a breakout box. The breakout box is only needed to allow an audience to see what you are seeing and it's features not included in the PS4 an oversight.
My opinion, it's a Firmware update to use the Southbridge Accelerators for all PS4 models and a new cheaper smaller more power efficient PS4 SKU.
There are several developer statements that support this: The PS4.5 will free up one CPU. That's exactly what would happen when Sony publishes the APIs to developers for Southbridge's True Audio for instance. This statement makes no sense in any other context. Up-scaling 1080P games to 4K not rendering them at 4K is another likely speculation by Eurogamer. Tweet line 4-6 read like a firmware update to use the GPGPU that was NOT previously accessible to game developers. "The Console will have more power but is primarily for System + Media + VR".
Game Audio from the DSP rather than using a CPU Upscaling to 4k, converting the Video output for the VR goggles doubling the frame rate for VR HTML5 <video> MSE EME, Codecs and Playready 3 for UHD. All have to be in the Southbridge ARM SoC TEE Apps like Netflix will drop in size and when full screen video is being displayed the AMD GPU can be turned off resulting in a less than 20 watt power mode. A Video chat program integrated into the OS has to be in Southbridge
Finally the PS4 touted launch features are coming.
...I heard (voices in my head) mention that the PS4.5 will contain a realtime 8K hardware ray tracer and a special time shifting flux capacitor chip that automagically reconfigures the hardware to keep 2 generations ahead of the best possible current PC. It's going to cost the same price as a new ZX Spectrum back in the day (£79) and will be surprise launched at E3 just like Sega did with the Saturn.
Now I've ripped up my NDA I just hope Sony's lawyers don't realise I've given the game away...
Unfortunately not. Moving from unified to split Ram is quite a radical change. It'd be a complete re-compile job. The entire memory map and addresses you used would have changed. In fact half wouldn't exist any more. Plus you'd have half the amount available. If you use 6Gb for system and 1Gb for graphics and now you only have 4Gb for system less OS reserve, you've got 2Gb of game data that no longer fits into Ram. A patch ain't gonna fix that one!
How are x86 games payable on PC with all types of different setups?
PC's have always had, and still do have, a standard split memory architecture. The devs target a minimum specification. Go below that and either the game won't run or Windows will attempt to use virtual ram on the hard disk to make up the difference and you'd be luck to see 1FPS.
A PC game might say min 4Gb Ram, 2Gb Graphics. If your graphics card only had 1Gb the game just isn't going to run.
I honestly thought as long as it's x86, it wouldn't be hard for developers to make things 'compatible'.
That's the common misconception. x86 is an instruction set not a magic wand. Just because PS4 uses an AMD x86 APU derivative doesn't mean that the PS4 is 'a cut down PC', 'based on of-the-shelf PC parts', 'is more like PC than previous consoles', or any of the other similar rubbish statements that have been going around since the systems launch.
You've got a prototype PS4.5 and have used the flux capacitor chip to read the 800th page. That's cheating! In fact by posting what you've read you've just managed to introduce a paradox. Thank you very much! Now, if the world stops existing because we don't make it to page 800 I blame you!
That's the common misconception. x86 is an instruction set not a magic wand. Just because PS4 uses an AMD x86 APU derivative doesn't mean that the PS4 is 'a cut down PC', 'based on of-the-shelf PC parts', 'is more like PC than previous consoles', or any of the other similar rubbish statements that have been going around since the systems launch.
Well, after failoverflow we know now that some things are different but in the end, it's a pc. Off the shelf? Not really but also not really far away from it, unlike all the generations before.
Well, after failoverflow we know now that some things are different but in the end, it's a pc. Off the shelf? Not really but also not really far away from it, unlike all the generations before.
You guys have heard of locked systems right? And we've already seen Linux running on the PS4.
So according to your logic, if I lock my bios, prevent the user from doing anything with the system including the installation of another OS. It must mean that my PC is custom hardware.
