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WSJ: Sony Plans New PlayStation for Graphics-Heavy Games

Philippo

Member
I still don't get it: are we expecting the PS4K to render/uprender/upscale/whatever every game at 4K?
Or are we also expecting improvements on frame-rate (much more appealing to me in this case).
 

thuway

Member
I think if anybody really wanted this they'd just game on PC.


Right? Like me, who has his fingers in the PC gaming pie, but still finds a place for consoles because in an adult life where gaming hours are minimal- fidgeting with updates, incompatibilities of hardware/drivers/clunkiness, and pure mechanical failure with piss poor customer support are things that have pushed me to really get pissed off.

PC gaming has its benefits, reliability and ease of use isn't one of them.

PC gaming has it's place in my life, but the busier I get, the more I find the appeal of consoles. It's the same as when I used to modify my Android phones to the latest cyanogenmod and futz around with all sorts of headaches in order to say I had the latest Android iteration. iOS came around, and I realized the hours I spent screwing around, soft bricking, etc. were better spent on a full function fixed device with mechanics that offered a parallel user experience.
 
Then why arent we still getting NES releases? Didnt they have the larger console base than other consoles 25 years ago? How did these other consoles come along?

People upgrade to better stuff and the games have to promote that. Thats how it works for consoles. You have incremental upgrades of new consoles and developers move to newer platform now to be left behind. Do I honestly think it is bad as some are making it out to be no.B ut there is some justified fear that the original ps4 games may be a little rough around the edges when you have two specs for the same gen. Are the developers going to push the OG ps4 as far as they could with a newer hardware version out there? You could end up with worse performance since the developer has to focus on two platforms now.

I dont think the scaling will be that detrimental

Its a spec change not a complete architecture change
 
Just gonna post again to perhaps gain some alternate perspective on my concerns:

Can I ask a genuine question to people that are fully supporting this. I mean I'm indifferent to the idea now, but I just have a few concerns:

- Will this now mean that developers won't actually use PS4's full power and squeeze all the juice out of it now that they have another hardware to focus on, where otherwise, it could have just been one PS4 until the end of the generation and they keep iterating on that until they run out of juice i.e. will current PS4 owners get the short end of the stick as in they're not getting their dollars worth out of developers focusing all efforts on the PS4 as much as possible.

- As well as fragmenting development, will this now mean more complicated development for two pieces of hardware for a console. One advantage that existed before is that developers only needed to work on one model. Will this mean twice the amount of work (or just more work in general) now that developers have to optimise their game for two pieces of console hardware, make sure the game is stable on both, and certify their patches on both pieces of hardware - maybe one version of the game has a patch that is faultier than the other? Different hardware poses different problems.

If someone can alleviate these concerns, I think I'll be on board with the new hardware, otherwise, I'm quite neutral either way as it won't really affect me bar the first point. Either way, I'm interested to see how this all unfolds. I guess the market will speak in the end and if it is a success, then I guess it'll set the precedent. If not then it'll just fizzle out.
 

THE:MILKMAN

Member
I still don't get it: are we expecting the PS4K to render/uprender/upscale/whatever every game at 4K?
Or are we also expecting improvements on frame-rate (much more appealing to me in this case).

We don't know. I'm waiting for Patrick Klepek/Eurogamer/whoever to follow up on the story.

I hope it isn't a hit and run story!
 

jdmonmou

Member
Do you guys remember when the Xbox 360 dominated last gen and all games were made first on the 360 and later on the PS3? Know why that was done? In order to sell the most games. We all knew the PS3 was stronger but devs wanted to use the lowest common denominator to sell the most games as possible. Will we eventually see games made exclusive to the PS4.5? Probably. But to suggest that devs would abandon that many consumers (Xbox One included) just to make better looking games for the PS4.5 is crazy. At most, people who buy the PS4.5 will get a performance boost.

That's why I think these new consoles won't sell well. Since so many people own current PS4s and Xbox Ones, developers will have to make those systems the lead platforms. There will be a graphical difference between the old and new, but nothing dramatic enough to influence existing customers to upgrade. If Sony still plans to sell PS4s alongside PS4Ks at a cheaper price, then PS4 will still sell well but PS4K will struggle.
 
it would only make a lot of sense to offer an option to buy PS4k for $399 when PS4 is down to $250.
Eh, for this to work they need two things to happen:

1) Cut the "old" PS4 price aggressively. It's $350 now? It'll probably be $300 by the time this comes out next year (I honestly don't see it coming out in 2016 at the same time as another piece of hardware).

Drop it down to $229.99 or even $200. Make sure the customers who were waiting for it to get cheaper have incentive to pick up the old model on the cheap. This also encourages devs to keep their games compatible with the older box. At least, if that's the intention here.

2) Price the "new" box within the ballpark of the "old" price. It should not be $500. It shouldn't even be $400. Make it $350 and call it good. The companies responsible need to make sure they make the transition as smooth and consumer-friendly as possible. Cash-grabs can come later.
 

Logash

Member
The bolded is not true whatsoever.

Not true whatsoever? I wouldn't say that. It's true that the 360 sold more so they probably would have made games for it as the lead platform regardless but to suggest that it wasn't a factor at all is a little weird. I mean you really think that devs would have done something on the PS3 that was impossible on the 360 just because they could? Nah. Only way that would happen if if the hardware completely outsold the competition like the PS2. No Dev will ignore the XBO and the PS4 just because it has more power. Simple as that. Games are a business.
 

yoplay

Member
Fuck this shit. Not buying this and not supporting sony anymore if they start releasing the games i want on the ps4.5

MS is doing the same and Nintendo just did this with the new DS. Think of it this way, every console has a "slimmer" remodel introduced midway through the cycle. Why not upgrade the internals as well. This could hurt the 1st model owners around year 5 or 6 with certain games being to demanding, but I don't see publishers looking forward to missing out on the huge install base.
 

thuway

Member
There is a huge benefit in releasing a value model and a premium model. Kids that are under 13 years old have zero idea or care about 4K or minimally bettert graphical effects. Offfering a $249 model with some free games will captivate that market with ease.

Meanwhile, the higher end consumer with the 4K television, HDR, and Freesync will actually appreciate the bigger bells and whistles. The beauty is one disc works on all platforms :D.
 

Durante

Member
This is awesome.

Basically two PS4 models. PS4 & PS4 Pro. They both have the same games. Awesomenss.
If two models are better than one, are N models better than two?

I just wonder where people put the cut-off, because until a few weeks ago tons of people swore by a cut-off of "one".
 

ironcreed

Banned
What if the games you want are also on the PS4.0?

55f2e0268d5cc.jpg
 

AzaK

Member
This feels like it could singlehandedly kill PSVR and probably hurt future PS consoles a lot too. Announcing before PSVR launches seems like extra stupid timing so I'm still finding this hard to believe. Why would you basically tell people "hey might want to cancel those preorders and wait a while if you don't want shit to suck, losers!" while they still have ample time to just not buy PSVR at all.

Sony haven't said anything yet though have they?
 
This whole upgrade thing could really backfire. There is no easy way to run old games with better graphics on this new hardware. So this is very likely limited to new games. But on PC you don't have such limitations. You can play all your old games with higher resolution, higher framerate and better effects.
 

RedZaraki

Banned
If there are any games that are PS4K only, that would be sad.

I'm not ready for another new PlayStation. The PS4 doesn't even feel fully matured yet.
 

wapplew

Member
Eh, for this to work they need two things to happen:

1) Cut the "old" PS4 price aggressively. It's $350 now? It'll probably be $300 by the time this comes out next year (I honestly don't see it coming out in 2016 at the same time as another piece of hardware).

Drop it down to $229.99 or even $200. Make sure the customers who were waiting for it to get cheaper have incentive to pick up the old model on the cheap. This also encourages devs to keep their games compatible with the older box. At least, if that's the intention here.

2) Price the "new" box within the ballpark of the "old" price. It should not be $500. It shouldn't even be $400. Make it $350 and call it good.

This doesn't make a lot of sense business wise.
Sony could keep selling PS4 at 350 maybe 299 for long ass time and make a lot profit without a PS4.5
With PS4.5, they have to drop PS4 lower than 299, and price new PS4.5 at $350 which doesn't make a lot of money.
Does it really worth the risk?
 
If it's 400$ and doesn't sound like jumbo jet during take-off I'll change to it instantly.

Nothing pisses me more than console games that can't maintain 30 fps and I can't do anything about it since it would be some kind blasphemy to give graphic settings choice on consoles.
 

Faenix1

Member
So chances are good it'll have exclusive non-VR games?

Ugh. I barely feel like I got a "next gen" experience as it is. I'm done.
 

squidyj

Member
Am I the only one who cares more about improved frame rates than whether or not it can run 4k games? The idea of something like Bloodborne or even Uncharted 4 running at 60fps is pretty exciting.

i would rather have better image quality but whatever.
 
If there are any games that are PS4K only, that would be sad.

I'm not ready for another new PlayStation. The PS4 doesn't even feel fully matured yet.

I don't see that happening. But there might be a chance that for a few PS4 titles, they don't spend as much time on optimizing/polishing as before, and focus on the PS4.5 version. We will have to see how this turns out.
 

injurai

Banned

Yeah, people are wearing some ugly colors (green with envy) in this thread.

Sony catering to an existing demand, in a manner that grows their business. In a manner that benefits the PlayStation platform, all without fracturing the PS4 install base. Not only is that a good thing, that helps fund content that otherwise would not make it on the PS4.0. The people who won't be upgrading won't be in any different boat then if Sony didn't go that route.

They are a business. As someone a few pages back pointed out. They sell a Luxury. I don't even own a PS4 because I can't afford one at the moment. Even I think this incremental console plan is a good thing.

The PS4 will be unified across hardware architecture. We already understand how to parameterize assets and rendering on hardware. All you have to do is optimize for the hardware architecture, then parameterize a build for a specific hardware spec. You can target each iteration just as well.
 
I dont think the scaling will be that detrimental

Its a spec change not a complete architecture change

Scaling is a non issue. But scaling isnt doing anything. People with 4k tvs are already scaling to 4k now. Because 1080p scaled to 4k is still 1080p with 1 pixel equalling 4 @4k. So thee is no point there. Rendering at 4k isnt feasible.
 
If Apple had followed the console model, we'd all still be using the original iPad and getting ready for the iPad 2.

It's time for consoles to join the rest of the consumer electronics industry. This is progress.
This is my thought as well. I welcome this.
 
There is a huge benefit in releasing a value model and a premium model. Kids that are under 13 years old have zero idea or care about 4K or minimally bettert graphical effects. Offfering a $249 model with some free games will captivate that market with ease.

Meanwhile, the higher end consumer with the 4K television, HDR, and Freesync will actually appreciate the bigger bells and whistles. The beauty is one disc works on all platforms :D.
Too much logic and reason here. You need more outrage...
 

SDCowboy

Member
Welcome to the era of the 32x all over again. Forget your old SHITTY hardware guys, please buy the new one..you don't HAVE to but we'll make sure you'll feel miserable if you don't

It sounds nothing like the 32x. The 32x had a separate game catalog, if I recall correctly. So if the PS4k will mostly (or always) use the same games, how would that be like the 32x?
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Gemüsepizza;199448164 said:
This whole upgrade thing could really backfire. There is no easy way to run old games with better graphics on this new hardware. So this is very likely limited to new games. But on PC you don't have such limitations. You can play all your old games with higher resolution, higher framerate and better effects.

You have to like, you know, start somewhere, man. PC was not always so scalable either at one time.
 

A-V-B

Member
If two models are better than one, are N models better than two?

I just wonder where people put the cut-off, because until a few weeks ago tons of people swore by a cut-off of "one".

You'll always have people willing to spend a ton of money on games, and those who aren't.

The ones who are will (probably) be insanely excited for a new model.

I doubt this has changed much today.

So the answer to your question could be yes depending on the person.
 

thuway

Member
"Existing demand"

I think people are overestimating the number of power-hungry console gamers.

Are you underestimating the clicks Digital Foundry, IGN, and Gamestop receive when they put up video/articles talking about framerate, resolution, etc. Gamers are educated and actually do care. If this fails, it'll fall on Sony's neck, but we live in an era where consumers are far more educated than you give them credit for.
 

Pineapple

Member
To me, this seems like it is going to end up like the new 3DS. No games developed specifically for it, and although it's more powerful, none of the games designed for the PS4 end up running that much better on it.

I mean, in order for a game to run better on the improved hardware, it would have to be coded as such, right?
 
If Apple had followed the console model, we'd all still be using the original iPad and getting ready for the iPad 2.
I would have been fine with this.

As an original ipad owner it was discouraging just how quickly it became obsolete and support was dropped for it. That's not at all something I'd like to expand to other devices.
 

Lord Error

Insane For Sony
If two models are better than one, are N models better than two?

I just wonder where people put the cut-off, because until a few weeks ago tons of people swore by a cut-off of "one".
Sounds like still a lot of people put a cut off at 1 if you read these threads. As most things, it's individual. I'm OK with a new console every three years if it carries compatibility.

I mean, in order for a game to run better on the improved hardware, it would have to be coded as such, right?
Not necessarily. It would be almost unpreventable for games with unlocked framerate (Infamous:SS, Until Dawn, KZ:SF come to mind) to not run better on the faster hardware - unless the extra performance is hidden behind some software lock that only newer games, or the updated older ones, can enable.
 
You have to like, you, start somewhere, man. PC was not always so scalable either at one time.

Well the best way to start would have been at the beginning of this gen. But now there is already a huge PS4 library. Seems like a big challenge. And then there is the possibility of a PS5 in a few years. Will those PS4 games run on the PS5? I hope Sony has a good plan for the next years, they will need need it.
 
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