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[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

If Playstation 4.5 succeed Sony could get cocky and release a Playstation 4.6-4.7-4.8-4.9
this will just kill the reason why console are attractive I think this what most people who complain fear.

Hell noooooooooooo.

 

[The God]

Sony wants a sustainable cash flow from their gaming division. PS4 does well, yes, but that's exaclty the point when companies don't react to changing demands of their customers.

Those customers are used to buy new generations of entertainment devices far more often than 10 years ago, as product life-cycles are shortening every generation. So, despite PS4's success, Sony must be aware that PS4 wont be able to keep up with PS2 on the long run. They are also aware that neither MS nor Nintendo will t wait with new generations of consoles until Sony comes up with a new one.

To make a long story short, waiting another 8 years between two generations is out of the question for a sustainable growth of the PS division. Hence, there are three possible solutions:

1. Shorten the current console's life cycle by almost 50% (4 years), which sure as hell will jeopardize 3rd party support,

2. Come up with a cool gimmick which will give your current console a second breath, or

3. Introduce a beefed up edition of your current console which shares the same library as the old one to give the whole system a second breath. In this case, Sony will be able to offer a cheap entry solution as well as an expensive one which creates additional value.

In Sony's case, it seems like they deemed option 2 alone not promising enough, so they also chose option 3 on top of that. I guess Sony does enough market research to be well aware that some people will be pissed because of option 3, but results from their research must have also indicated that this is the way to go for them.

So the two other hardware makers are forcing their hand. I get that.

 

[Aaronrules380]

So you are going to spend more money? Like if cost isn't an issue, then why not go PC/oculus in the first place? Why does it take a ps4k to make you change your mind?

Because maybe the reason they prefer consoles has nothing to do with price in the first place?

 

[DeepEnigma]

You do realize that is only true for games created with with those APIs. Current games written for the APIs in use since the PS4 launch won't be compatible. And switching the API with a new one pretending to be the old one can and will break things, just look at emulation for example.

Unless Sony designed the API to be compatible with more hardware since launch, but somehow I highly doubt that.

What?

It will still be x86 based. This is not going from PS3 to PS4. The API will scale just fine. And I am sure they did more than you think they did, lol.

It will be no different than a PC with faster hardware in that sense.

 

[jeffram]

You're assuming this will be the only one. If it's successful, I guarantee you it won't

He's going by what we know. You're assuming.

 

[Markoman]

I really don't care about any Sony 1st party franchise right now, so the only games I'm missing are a small number of Japanese titles like persona 5 which aren't coming to PC. And those are becoming increasingly less common too. So what exactly am I missing out on?

Me neither. Xbox same. That's what really made me switch back to PC just recently and the fact that I also like strategy games.

Just look at my PS4 purchases up to this day and it becomes clear why consoles start to become less attractive to me.

KZSF (day 1 retail -sold it)
AC4BF (day 1 retail -sold it)
BF4 (day 1 retail -sold it)
GTA V (digital, double dip)
TLoU (digital)
Bloodborne - the only true justification imo
Witcher 3
DS2
FC4 (retail got it for free, sold it)
MGSV
Fallout 4(retail, on ebay right now)
DMC4 SE (digital, because cheap)
Wolfenstein TNO (digital, because cheap)
Journey (digital, because cheap)

Next game I'm going to buy on PS4 is UC4. Haven't bought a new game in 2016 just yet.
(will get DS3 on PC)
It's been 2,5 years in PS4's life-cycle and the WiiU helped me through the barren 2014. How are more console versions going to help here?

 

[Old Gimlet Eyes]

Not a fair comparison though when you're talking tech that is vastly superior to what the consoles are offering at the same time. If you wanted equalivalent, or even slightly superior tech, you'd pay less

Even comparing tech that is similar, building a PC from the ground up will be vastly more expensive, every time. Monitor and OS alone will put you past console price let alone the actual PC hardware.

 

[mcrommert]

Because maybe the reason they prefer consoles has nothing to do with price in the first place?

Yep...i prefer consoles not based on cost

 

[DieH@rd]

Just make a console that is as easy to switch out the GPU as it is to switch out the HDD.

Not gonna happen. Consoles are like appliances, they are fixed and users then use them for years [like PS4 will continue to be used].

 

[Rembrandt]

I think MS plans going to fail, because PS4 still have the major install base and games will base on that. We won't have PS2 vs 360 gears of war situation.
So, Sony should hold thier horses. Launch PSVR first, see how things go, if mid gen console fail, release 4K output slim and done with it.

They have the upper hand, no need to rush things.

If they launch PSVR and it disappoints because of the current hardware then it's dead and a new console so soon after won't save it. If they're going to release a new console then line it up with that.


I also don't think MS is doing this, tbh.

 

[Gurnlei]

When you think about this from a business pov, a lot of things make sense and a lot of things don't make sense.

What makes sense:

- Having a very affordable and a not-so-affordable SKU. The regular PS4 becoming the entry model ($249.99) and the PS4K becoming the premium ($399.99) makes sense.

- Having a more powerful PS4 to compete with a more powerful Xbox One. In comparison with the One, the PS4 is objectively superior in tech specs. Sony might want to maintain this advantage as it allows them to market the PS4 as the most powerful console available.

- Having a more powerful PS4 to integrate the PSVR tech inside the box. This is straight-forward: make a new box with everything inside instead of the current solution with everything outside.

- Having a mid-gen refresh to spur growth + aid development. Yes, the PS4 is doing great, but Sony might see a path to even better sales and performance. If a more powerful PS4 can become the 4K playback machine then it can attract an entirely new audience (mostly people who buy a 4K TV). Furthermore, devs might feel like the tech in the PS4 is making development slower and more cumbersome for them. More powerful hardware can make it easier to brute force effects and techniques on their end.

What doesn't make sense:

- Dividing the userbase and as a result putting the entire PlayStation business at risk. The PS4 is the heart of PlayStation. Their handheld business is dead and their legacy business (PS3, PS Now) is shaky at best. The console business is built off of the idea that you buy a console, put it under your TV, and you're done. It's the same with TV's -- you don't buy a new TV every 12 months. A newer PS4 can disrupt that model, but it can also sour people on the entire console business.

- Making a new PS4 where the selling point is just more graphics. This is the one that doesn't make any sense to me and makes me question a lot of happenings in the business (jump to the dotted line below for an extreme tinfoil hat belief). Cerny and his team are brilliant architects, but even they know that being able to render at a higher resolution isn't a great reason to make an entirely new console. When you consider how (relatively) young 4K is in households? It makes even less sense to invest a whole bunch of time, money, and energy into a new console. I just don't think Sony would believe 1080p is insufficient for the rest of the gen, and even more important, I don't think Kaz Hirai would greenlight a new PS4 that only has one selling point.

- Messing with the perception of the PS4 as the consumer-friendly console. Yes, dropping the current PS4 in price would be a great move, but the reality is people don't want to feel like they own the inferior version of a product. It doesn't matter how clever the ads or promotions end up being. If people are still buying a PS4, this will automatically divide the userbase into those with the 'best' PS4 and those with the 'regular' PS4. People don't like that... at all. With TV's, people are comfortable getting the 60" version instead of the 72" version because the size of the TV's is the only difference. With iPhones, people are comfortable with getting this year's upcoming iPhone 7 instead of last year's iPhone 6 because the higher number introduces an entirely new generation. If this thing is just called the PS4K then it will be following in the footsteps of the iPhone S models. The difference is the S models offer a significant number of improvements and the PS4K is rumored to only offer a bump in rendering resolution.

You pretty much wrote down what I was thinking a much more eloquent way. It's all speculation for now but I'm really hoping they don't start introducing more powerful PlayStation's at a much shorter cycle than the console generations usually last.

 

[bill0527]

Apple and Samsung have proved people will get on board that $600 upgrade train every 2 years on a mobile device.

Not surprised to see the console manufacturers at least attempt something similar.

 

[Aaronrules380]

Even comparing tech that is similar, building a PC from the ground up will be vastly more expensive, every time. Monitor and OS alone will put you past console price let alone the actual PC hardware.

Sure, if you build it from the ground up. But the difference is you do that once with a PC, whereas here you're doing that constantly each time you buy a new system

 

[jabberwocker]

PS4 for rich superior race and PS4 for poor masses.

PsPoor?

 

[small44]

Apple and Samsung have proved people will get on board that $600 upgrade train every 2 years on a mobile device.

Not surprised to see the console manufacturers at least attempt something similar.

Just because it worked with smartphone dosn't mean it will work with consoles since we are not talking about the same a audience.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Because maybe the reason they prefer consoles has nothing to do with price in the first place?

Then why not be patient and get the .5 version of every console? You are getting the superior hardware every time and you instantly have a large variety of library of cheap games to play with?

 

[Marty Chinn]

Apple and Samsung have proved people will get on board that $600 upgrade train every 2 years on a mobile device.

Not surprised to see the console manufacturers at least attempt something similar.

People keep making this comparison but it's a terrible comparison. It's almost as bad as saying people buy hundreds of dollars of food every month, why wouldn't they spend hundreds of dollars on a console once ever year? The need and use case of each of those respective items are different and people will spend accordingly.

 

[ShadowOfTheIco]

People expecting publishers and developers to magically fart more time and resources into developing an optimised PS4K and PS4 versions are very sadly mistaken. It ain't gonna happen.

Time and resources. That's your main barrier to a game being optimised for both. Developers can barely, properly optimise their game for one platform, let alone 2 and let's not forget the xbox one and possibly NX.

These are still closed box systems. They're not PC's. They don't receive specific game GPU driver updates. They don't receive mod support or config file changes. You're at the mercy of the developer who is at the mercy of time and resources, strained always by the publisher.

So taking history of every videogame ever produced we can safely safe, you are NOT going to get well optimised games for all platforms. Especially when one of them is technically superior.

So how does it all play out. 2 ways.

1. The PS4 stays the lead platform. Games are made for it. PS4K gets minimal upgrades, some games play better in PSVR 4K. Begs the question then, what's the point of PS4K?

2. PS4K becomes lead platform. PS4 gets very shoddy ports. Many games borderline playable. To continue being a PS gamer you must transfer over to the PS4K.

Either scenario, someone gets fucked over. There is no optimal la-la land where all games magically work great on all systems (some exclusions will apply e.g GTA with its vast development budget and time). History tells us otherwise. If Sony isn't careful it will fracture its base into haves and have nots, within a generation. As opposed to cross generational. Something which console gamers are not used to.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Then why not be patient and get the .5 version of every console? You are getting the superior hardware every time and you instantly have a large variety of library of cheap games to play with?

Because then the PS5 comes out and they are staring at the other ice cream cone again, instead just enjoying why the bought it in the first place.

People keep making this comparison but it's a terrible comparison. It's almost as bad as saying people buy hundreds of dollars of food every month, why wouldn't they spend hundreds of dollars on a console once ever year? The need and use case of each of those respective items are different and people will spend accordingly.

Did you just say the comparison is terrible and then compare the vast majorities 'selfie device' to food?

lol

 

[Gurnlei]

Then why not be patient and get the .5 version of every console? You are getting the superior hardware every time and you instantly have a large variety of library of cheap games to play with?

Because I'm not patient. I don't want to wait until halfway through a consoles generation to play the exclusives if any interest me.

 

[jabberwocker]

Then why not be patient and get the .5 version of every console? You are getting the superior hardware every time and you instantly have a large variety of library of cheap games to play with?

people do this. I have a fried that just got a 360 and ps3 in the past year. has been pc gaming mostly and going through backlogs.

 

[Clockwork5]

What exactly was disastrous about it?

The framerate

 

[npm0925]

So you are going to spend more money? Like if cost isn't an issue, then why not go PC/oculus in the first place? Why does it take a ps4k to make you change your mind?

Oculus is $100 more than PSVR. I should be able to get an i5 and a 970 after selling my current processor, video card, and PS4. So it's $100 more for something that won't be obsolete when Sony arbitrarily decides it will be.

 

[Aaronrules380]

Then why not be patient and get the .5 version of every console? You are getting the superior hardware every time and you instantly have a large variety of library of cheap games to play with?

Well first off because I didn't even know that would exist this generation when I bought my PS4. Second because I don't have time to play a huge back log. Third because I can have the exact same library with a PC with superior hardware that will be much cheaper to upgrade after the initial purchase

 

[Marty Chinn]

Because I'm not patient. I don't want to wait until halfway through a consoles generation to play the exclusives if any interest me.

Plus, I find it much harder to suddenly have half a generation of backlog at the start and still try to keep up with releases as they're coming out currently.

 

[KOHIPEET]

It's kind of strange how Sony gets most of the shitstorm right now while MS had clearly stated they're going down this path too. I wonder when will we get the first rumor from MS'S side.

 

[Koppai]

No thanks, Sony. I hope they are wrong so I can joke about it for the next year or so.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Did you just say the comparison is terrible and then compare the vast majorities 'selfie device' to food?

lol

I did, because it's a stupid comparison, just like the comparison I threw out to show how stupid it is.

 

[pixelation]

Where there is smoke there's fire. I wonder how Sony I'll handle this.

They've been making all the right moves (mostly) post PS4 launch, let's hope that trend continues...

Spoiler

i'll upgrade... (graphics whore).

 

[vpance]

I think MS plans going to fail, because PS4 still have the major install base and games will base on that. We won't have PS2 vs 360 gears of war situation.
So, Sony should hold thier horses. Launch PSVR first, see how things go, if mid gen console fail, release 4K output slim and done with it.

They have the upper hand, no need to rush things.

MS plans will fail, but only because Sony are doing the same thing and releasing it this year! If they waited there's a chance the hardcore decide to jump ship to Xbox for the added power.

It's true, that this whole .5 thing could alienate some customers, but I guess they just don't want to take the chance of a Bone.5 stealing the show mid gen, which it really could since the race is still relatively close in the US.

 

[Kyrios]

It's kind of strange how Sony gets most of the shitstorm right now while MS had clearly stated they're going down this path too. I wonder when will we get the first rumor from MS'S side.

Kinda looking forward to E3 just for a possible major friggen shitstorm between Sony, Nintendo, and MS lol

 

[Aaronrules380]

It's kind of strange how Sony gets most of the shitstorm right now while MS had clearly stated they're going down this path too. I wonder when will we get the first rumor from MS'S side.

I've long since given up on MS regardless, since they have literally nothing that appeals to me over what other systems provide

 

[chemicals]

They saw the NX and shat bricks.

I seriously doubt Sony gives a shit about NX.

 

[Beerman462]

Do people really think the break out box will be integrated into PS4.5? Seems like an unessary cost increase to integrate something that people might not want.

 

[The God]

It's kind of strange how Sony gets most of the shitstorm right now while MS had clearly stated they're going down this path too. I wonder when will we get the first rumor from MS'S side.

The original Kotaku story said they were hearing about an upgraded Xbox for a while.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Do people really think the break out box will be integrated into PS4.5? Seems like an unessary cost increase to integrate something that people might not want.

Not everyone wants 4K either.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Do people really think the break out box will be integrated into PS4.5? Seems like an unessary cost increase to integrate something that people might not want.

It really depends on how much they can integrate the functionality of the break out box into what you gain from the extra performance of the newer device. If they can take advantage of the better performance to take the role of the break out box, then there's most definitely a reason to remove it from the equation externally.

 

[Pancake Mix]

A 4 year life cycle for the Wii U before a brand new console doesn't seem so bad now.

 

[Markoman]

Even comparing tech that is similar, building a PC from the ground up will be vastly more expensive, every time. Monitor and OS alone will put you past console price let alone the actual PC hardware.

Guess what, I' typing this on my couch looking at my TV. Crazy vodoo magic from 2016.
The OS is like 100$, yeah crazy expensive...especially when you regard the extra functions.

You won't even have to upgrade some parts for years to come. Buy a gold PSU and a good case - 200$ you won't jave to spendagain in 7 years. Harddrives - well, you'll need that extra space on consoles, too.

A good motherboard + CPU combo can last 5 years+, because CPU tech has slowed down in regard to gaming. 16GB RAM will last for some years and another 16GB are 70$.

So all you need is to upgrade your GPU. And like I've said before, if you're one of those who says 'this is cool, I will buy every console upgrade' you are paying 1200$ in a 6 year span (assuming they will release new consoles every 2 years)

 

[Lord Error]

It's kind of strange how Sony gets most of the shitstorm right now while MS had clearly stated they're going down this path too. I wonder when will we get the first rumor from MS'S side.

There's a much higher level of certainty at this point that Sony will in fact do this. Comment from Phil made it sound like it's only a possibility they are considering and there were no further rumors. Still he got a lot of flak here for that comment iirc.

 

[injurai]

Because I'm not patient. I don't want to wait until halfway through a consoles generation to play the exclusives if any interest me.

I think people are wrongly assuming that the 4.5 will have exclusives. But let's take a look anyways. Under the assumptions the iterative consoles will also have exclusives. Now that consoles are on x86 architecture and PC hardware it's safe to say we can assume backwards compatibility going forward.

4.0 5.0 6.0

This is how it works now. You buy your console for the generation, you get to play the exclusives.

Now let's assume you won't buy every single iteration. You will land on one of two cycles.

4.0 4.5 5.0 5.5 6.0 6.5

4.0 4.5 5.0 5.5 6.0 6.5

All that is being changed, is when you get access to new exclusives. Either at the start of a new generation. Or when you buy the revised version of a consoles. Either way, you'll be waiting to get access to exclusives, unless you want to buy every model. No matter what you pick. You will experience a full generation as you alternate purchases. But if you have the money, you can trade in your old system and get the upgrade early.

It's exactly the same as the iPhone cycle. Some people upgrade at the number increment. Some upgrade at the S model.

 

[Gurnlei]

I think people are wrongly assuming that the 4.5 will have exclusives.

I don't think the 4.5 will have exclusives. I'm just referring to I don't want to wait until 5.5 to play PS5's exclusives. That and I don't want to buy the weaker version only to buy the better a few years from then. That's not why I buy consoles.

 

[Omadahl]

I'm not really understanding the hyperbole of people saying they'll abandon console for PC and this coming from a PC gamer. I upgrade my PC by a few parts every couple of years and a major overhaul every 4-5. I'm buying mid-tier parts and it costs $300-450. So for people to say they'll leave for PCs when you're going to spend the same amount of money (or much more depending on your desired graphics) every 4-5 years, you make no sense. For those people, you need to hop on over to logical increments and check out those prices.

 

[Ol No Bones]

It's kind of strange how Sony gets most of the shitstorm right now while MS had clearly stated they're going down this path too. I wonder when will we get the first rumor from MS'S side.

People were predicting that MS making that move was a sign they were leaving the console market. Some said this was an obvious reaction to Sonys superior hardware and that the box was doomed. It got a lot of crap here don't worry.

 

[injurai]

I don't think the 4.5 will have exclusives. I'm just referring to I don't want to wait until 5.5 to play PS5's exclusives. That and I don't want to buy the weaker version only to buy the better a few years from then. That's not why I buy consoles.

Why is having the weaker model so bad once the revision comes out?

 

[Beerman462]

Not everyone wants 4K either.

Right, but some people will and if you integrate the breakout box you raise the price and now you have to sell VR goggles without the box as well. Makes more sense to keep them seperate.

It really depends on how much they can integrate the functionality of the break out box into what you gain from the extra performance of the newer device. If they can take advantage of the better performance to take the role of the break out box, then there's most definitely a reason to remove it from the equation externally.

Doesn't the breakout box have very specific hardware in it? Either way the rumors make it sound like it will have more power for better VR experiences. I don't think it will be integrated.

 

[Ragona]

Would be cool if someone could clear this up. If i (all theoretical here) buy a more beefy Ps4,5, would my already existing, shitty running games like Just Cause 3 automatically run better or would devs need to patch the game?

Apart from that, I would welcome a new gen every 2-3 years if that means more games in the future will run at 60fps or at the very least with spot on 30fps.

 

[Maintenance]

Welp, time to abandon ship. I'll just stick to PC gaming.

In before "well, bye" gifs.

 

[Marty Chinn]

I think people are wrongly assuming that the 4.5 will have exclusives. But let's take a look anyways. Under the assumptions the iterative consoles will also have exclusives. Now that consoles are on x86 architecture and PC hardware it's safe to say we can assume backwards compatibility going forward.

4.0 5.0 6.0

This is how it works now. You buy your console for the generation, you get to play the exclusives.

Now let's assume you won't buy every single iteration. You will land on one of two cycles.

4.0 4.5 5.0 5.5 6.0 6.5

4.0 4.5 5.0 5.5 6.0 6.5

All that is being changed, is when you get access to new exclusives. Either at the start of a new generation. Or when you buy the revised version of a consoles. Either way, you'll be waiting to get access to exclusives, unless you want to buy every model. No matter what you pick. You will experience a full generation as you alternate purchases. But if you have the money, you can trade in your old system and get the upgrade early.

It's exactly the same as the iPhone cycle. Some people upgrade at the number increment. Some upgrade at the S model.

There's assumptions and fallacies here. The first assumption is we only get one iterative update for a generation. The second is you compare it to the iPhone, but there is no single generation on the iPhone despite the numbers and the S update. They really are a continuing platform which means the comparison in itself is drastically different than a console unless we're saying consoles now will no longer have a generation and will be constantly having new iterations like the iPhone. We need to be pretty clear here, it's either like the iPhone model or it's not at all. Which is it do you think it is?

 

[Substandard]

I think people are wrongly assuming that the 4.5 will have exclusives. But let's take a look anyways. Under the assumptions the iterative consoles will also have exclusives. Now that consoles are on x86 architecture and PC hardware it's safe to say we can assume backwards compatibility going forward.

4.0 5.0 6.0

This is how it works now. You buy your console for the generation, you get to play the exclusives.

Now let's assume you won't buy every single iteration. You will land on one of two cycles.

4.0 4.5 5.0 5.5 6.0 6.5

4.0 4.5 5.0 5.5 6.0 6.5

All that is being changed, is when you get access to new exclusives. Either at the start of a new generation. Or when you buy the revised version of a consoles. Either way, you'll be waiting to get access to exclusives, unless you want to buy every model. No matter what you pick. You will experience a full generation as you alternate purchases. But if you have the money, you can trade in your old system and get the upgrade early.

It's exactly the same as the iPhone cycle. Some people upgrade at the number increment. Some upgrade at the S model.

But they are essentially doubling the cost if I want to keep up with the "good" version of the console, or halfing the time that my existing console is the best available.

To me, as someone who is into PC gaming as well, that's too much. I don't want an inferior console experience to what those with the new shiny console are getting, but I'm not willing to pony up 2-3x (depending on how many revisions there are per generation) as much money in consoles each generation.

I'll just stick to PC and miss the 1-2 decent exclusive game that comes out each year this generation. I know my PS4 isn't objectively made worse by the existence of the PS4.5, but I don't want the last gen experience.