Scientist Supreme!
Banned
lol
Yes, I did say I was ok with it but I'm not going to cry about it being gone.
I approve of removing this pose from tracer because it doesn't fit her.
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Tracer's butt victory pose will be removed from Overwatch
- Thread starter CO_Andy
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Yes, I did say I was ok with it but I'm not going to cry about it being gone.
I approve of removing this pose from tracer because it doesn't fit her.
As far as I'm ware there is nothing in the game yet that would indicate who it would be. The developers simply stated that there were multiple gay characters in the game.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
You mean to tell me you only see one side of this doing illogical things?...come on now both sides have terrible posts in here. I call that selective memory
NinjaCoachZ
Member
It's an eye-candy pose. A poster went into detail critiquing that such a pose seemed unfitting for who Tracer is as a character.
Blizzard read this feedback and agreed, also thinking that others might think a character like Tracer being used as eye candy to be inappropriate. The creators of a character know a character better than anyone else and they agreed with the critique.
This is good because it makes the game more open and less uncomfortable to more people.
If you're wondering what the big deal is then ask Blizzard or the millions of women who have to put up with seeing themselves sexualized everywhere, everyday.
Quote
Member
Yeah. This is the case as I see it as well. It's not even a case where a bunch of journalists were reporting on it giving them a bad reputation, so that didn't have anything to do with it. They could've easily ignored it, but they decided to change it based on a contained thread, so they obviously wanted to do it based on the merits of that post.
mikefrails
Banned
Wait, why is the gun parallel off base? If a parent can explain that the shooting is fake then why can't said parent explain that these characters do not represent his/her kid?
Princess Carl
Member
Good on them for doing so.
They said they don't want to just name them and go "these are our gay characters" and instead have it emerge as a natural revelation about the characters in the story media they're putting out, so we don't know yet.
Essentially they were explaining they want them to be characters who are gay instead of "the gay characters".
If you think about how Borderlands handles someone like Sir Hammerlock where he gives you 14 quests and you really learn about him as a person and in the 15th he mentions that this hunt is for a monster that attacked him and his husband while they were on safari, you're on the right track.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Just hope she doesn't get harassed over this.
g.r.e.
Member
I feel that there's a strong dissonance going on between Tracer's design and Tracer's intended personality. She was clearly designed by the artists with the intent of showing off her skin tight buttocks as one of the 'visual perks' of the character, which give her a sensual nature by default.
Because people want characters to idolize and emulate while knowing you shouldn't go around shooting people is a much easier thing to explain.
Yeah. I find this weird too.
or he. OP in the original blizzard forum post didn't say his/her gender
I don't disagree that it's hard to find non-sexualized female role models to identify with in gaming. However, if Blizzard really wanted to desexualize Tracer, they would give her a change of pants.
blankempathy
Member
Honestly If I perceived this even as slightly sexual I wouldn't have said anything. However where does the line get drawn when it comes to censorship? What if she was just standing there fully covered and someone found that sexually offensive. Should a company say "ok well we'll change them". Tracer has similar poses where shes slightly sticking out her butt to the back and side and no one seems to care. Suddenly you can see her from behind and its a huge deal. People can argue about how the focal point is her ass but is that really true? Maybe she just happens to have an ass? If it were a clearcut sexy pose I wouldn't have said anything. My honest opinion is that this is only a "sexy pose" because shes in skin tight clothing and people actually realize that when they notice her ass from behind. If she were wearing looser clothing no one would bat an eye at this pose. So its strange that this coy pose is not okay simply because you can see outline of an ass yet if you turn her around the clothing attire is acceptable. As for the depiction of the character? Looks like a jovial coy pose to me.
I suspect they wouldn't have gone with exactly that design if this game hasn't been in some form of development since 2007, over which Blizzard's goals changed a lot. I'll give a Hearthstone example of this when I get to a computer.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Oh god please don't compare it to Borderlands
I actually want this to have good writing
There are already reports that widowmaker is sniping tracer in her butt and commenting at how small it is
Quote
Member
Did you want to be a gun growing up?
NinjaCoachZ
Member
That's fair enough, though the idea of getting into outfits and all that is a whole discussion in itself (since it's possible to wear a skintight outfit and still be a good character rather than pander-bait - basically execution is a key thing). I think this is a good step though.
Like if I see a girl wearing yoga pants, my first thought is, "oh yeah, she's wearing those because they're comfy and she likes them" not "MMMMM ME LOVE BUM BUM".
What happens when their daughter eventually learns how to use the internet for themselves and accidentally comes across porn of characters they idolize? Legit question.
deadscreensky
Member
I'm not actually complaining, and Blizzard can obviously do what they want, but the reasoning does feel a little ridiculous to me. In what sense is Tracer's design not already blatantly sexualized? You can talk about her personality otherwise all you want, but her pants are effectively very loud spray-paint. Simply looking at her visual design it's clear she was intended to be sexy. If they want to reduce that sexiness that's fine, but pretending it somehow doesn't fit the character is silly.
mikefrails
Banned
I wanted to be a Gundam so yeah, kinda.
*Shrug* I think most people can generally separate actual characters from their fan-made porn caricatures.
It makes me worry what Blizzard will do if now someone complains about Widow maker. That it fits the lore doesn't seem to matter in their reasoning.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Actually Widowmaker is a femme fatale..so her being overtly sexy fits in.
Apparently people still hadn't a problem with them. If they organized a petition, made some topic and created an OUTRAGE, they probably would consider removing whatever makes her offensive (even if it's her entire character design, which is hot AF).
See the problem? To change the game to cater puritan views, you just need to make some campaign against it. If it doesn't work, you report to sites and hope for them to create billions of articles against it. The company will feel them that they need to change the character and issue an apology.
Of course, they could just not design sexy characters, that way, you wouldn't have these problems. The problem with this is: your vision is now limited to whatever the fans/media wants you to think. Of course you can ignore all them, but for how long?
It fucking sucks, as someone who admires game development. No matter how insipid, stupid or pointless the sexyness of the character is, developers should be allowed to make them for no reason at all.
And you know this how?
Because that's not what happened here.
But yeah, let's get mad about american puritanism (aka PC culture).
Quote
Member
I get that you're really concentrated on 1 post by a Blizzard employee, but please, consider the the original post that it's a reaction to.
This isn't happening and it's not creating the precedent you're suggesting.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Im Ok with the change if they feel like it fits the character better, not sure Im down with apologizing for it.
Character design wise, I dont love having one note characters. Sure widow can be sexier but that doesnt make other characters asexual either, characters can be funy and sexy in their own way and its not a crime if a fan doesnt agree with it.
Character design wise, I dont love having one note characters. Sure widow can be sexier but that doesnt make other characters asexual either, characters can be funy and sexy in their own way and its not a crime if a fan doesnt agree with it.
You have no proof the creators of the characters made the change. Seems like management to me imo
This seems like an overreaction like the guy that complained.
How actually does this make the game more open to more people? I would like you to explain this to me because I'm not seeing it
And people should be able to criticize. Criticism doesn't stop developers from doing what they want.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Dice//
Banned
Honestly, look at any of these sort of "outrage inducing topics" to see just how shallow and stupid we are as a species over small yet harmful things. I'm speaking broadly and vaguely, but the responses about how "the world's gone 'too PC'" are amusing and sad.
To anyone sad...
They should change Tracer's victory pose to look like this
Still playful, see?
...at least anime still exists, and I doubt they'll change any time soon.
Now...do I check out Kotaku in Action subreddit or will it be headache inducing...?
Mr_Antimatter
Member
I fail to see how anything about such a campaign forces a dev to do anything. They could have just as easily said 'nah, we like it'. I have literally seen a dev artiest do this in person (back at PAX prime, during the Guildwars 2 Sylvari art discussion rigtht after that races redesign).
This whole idea that devs are slaves to puritan outrage is just nonsense.
Yeah, I'm kind of going on their official response, crazy, I know.
NinjaCoachZ
Member
Blizzard made the change. Blizzard is the company that makes the game. The director of the game is the one who responded to the post in question. It took a few days to make the respond. Presumably this means there was some deliberation on the part of the development team.
There are plenty of people out there who roll their eyes at objectification or are not comfortable with it. Video games are noted as being something of a boys' club and thus unwelcoming toward female players, especially in eSports (which is territory this game gets into). By not including elements that are seen as objectification, this reaction no longer happens. The game is now open to more people. Straightforward.
If you want videogames to be taken seriously as an art like any other medium, that absolutely means creators can do whatever they want. It also means people should be allowed to criticize and have varying perspectives on art. Creators are making their product for the sake of their consumers. If they feel there's something that's causing aspects of their product to not go over well with the people they're making it for, they change it. That's the nature of the beast.
When's it ever not?
Lunafreya Nox Fleuret
Member
This is actually totally ridiculous it isn't even funny.
NinjaCoachZ
Member
I'm not American.
I don't even favour gun violence at all. Things like this aren't a pick-and-choose type deal.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Im trying to find the ass but I dont see it
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Oh fucks sake.
Why is this like, the generic response to stuff like this? "OH BUT YOU'RE OK WITH KILLING BUT CAN'T DEAL WITH A NUDIE LADY".
I mean, if James Bond pranced around singing songs, I'd have a problem with that, because even though James Bond is a merciless assassin, that isn't who he is.
It's ok to have problems with things, even though those things aren't as bad as murder.
There are SO many posts like this in this thread and they're just as bad but in a different way.
I'm in this position.
It's Blizzard's game, and if someone was that offended by it then...well, there is goes I guess. From a character standpoint, just based off of the few trailers, her personality seems more akin to a free spirit.
But then I realize I;m talking about a fictional characters wants/personality, in a thread with eye lasers, and I realize that it's time to go to bed.
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