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[TheKastorian]

I can be totally on board with this idea, as long as Sony guarantees forward compatibility of PS4 games with PS4K, PS5 etc. Don't want to end up owning 3 different consoles in 6 years and needing each one to play games dedicated to a single console.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

Driveclub is dead man. Let it RIP in peace.

Driveclub died in a way that makes Chuck Norris proud man. Let it be.

I don't think it's dead just yet.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

I wonder if these 2 new boxes will output smaller titles at 4K. Because they sure as fuck won't be outputting the bigger ones at 4K.

 

[SneakyStephan]

Its the PS1 - CD player; PS2 - DVD player; PS3 - Blu Ray player all over again. I wouldnt be surprised if this gets bought just for that alone. And some looking at it as playing games as an added bonus.

Eh, do people still even buy blu rays?
(4k blu rays in this case)

and doesn't every 4k tv already have the ability to play 4k streaming content on its own? Tvs have been their own computers for a long time now you don't really need a seperate box anymore to play your content.

 

[GlamFM]

After playing FF XV Platinum Demo, I'm hoping PS4K allows for a smooth console experience FF XV.

This thing should be smooth on the PS4 as it is.

Square is to blame. Horrible experience.

I can be totally on board with this idea, as long as Sony guarantees forward compatibility of PS4 games with PS4K, PS5 etc. Don't want to end up owning 3 different consoles in 6 years and needing each one to play games dedicated to a single console.

OP says "yes" regarding PS4 and PS4K

 

[_Spr_Drnk]

I'm okay with the rumours if true. Maybe not day one though.

 

[Bl4ckSunsh1n3]

This isn't an Elite Controller situation at all. It's not going to go over well when Sony tells the average consumer they need to drop another $500 if they want the best experience on a platform they just barely invested a bunch of money into. If I knew I was going to pay $400 for a subpar experience I would have never bought a PS4 at all or at least waited. Sony can't seem to keep their head on straight when they in the #1 spot.

That's exactly why I think people are upset. If Sony had come out a year ago with a road-map or something and said we are doing this, I think it would have been accepted. But, they didn't because it would have been a good will gesture towards their community that would have negatively impacted sales.

 

[JustenP88]

This thing should be smooth on the PS4 as it is.

Square is to blame. Horrible experience.

If it's so bad right now, imagine how bad it will suddenly become once the PS4K releases! Damn you, Sony!

 

[TheSpecialOne]

Your argument comes down to you having issues with certain things and then using whatever evidence to validate it contrary to belief. The fact that you think the only thing you actually said that was opinionated was the quality of games and not your assessment of the hardware (which is sill magnitudes more then PS3), articles questioning the value of PS+ (which is basically people whining they aren't getting brand new AAA games every month), comparing infrastructures (another opinion), and then build quality (once again taking anecdotes of a forum as gospel), speaks volumes.

The hardware been under-powered is considered opinionated? What are you talking about. There are metrics that can be used to validate that statement. An excellent example would be to do a differential analysis between the power gap of last gen consoles vs best gpu at the time and current gen consoles and the best gpu at the time of release. I've already done this and the gap is bigger compared to last gen. The rsx was approximately 226gflops and the xenos was approximately 240gflops. The Xenos was the most powerful amd gpu in 2005. It was more powerful than the 1800xt and that gpu was $550 if I remember correctly. The same cannot be said about the gpu's in either console today. Neither console hit the customary 10x power increase in gpu this gen. It is quantifiable and the fact that the ps4 is more powerful than the ps3 doesn't mean it cannot be under powered.

The value of ps plus can also be quantified yet again by comparing the monetary value. Personal value can't really be quantified but when people start making noise about the quality of the service, it means that there is something to investigate.

Again, with the controller, I specifically said to use this forum as an example. We will never get the data on the failure rate of ps4 controllers. We also won't know how many people decided to go through the warranty process vs purchase a new controller. The best evidence we can gather is anecdotal. Doing a google search of ps4 controller issues brings back 498,000 results yet if you search ps3 controller issues, you'll get 388,000 results. The ps3 has been out for significantly longer so clearly there is something to investigate there.

Again, if we want to compare the quality of the online infrastructure, we can do so by using several metrics. An example of this would be service interruptions. Again, we really haven't documented each occurrence of a service interruption but again, psn down brings back about 2 million more search results that xbox live down. I really wish I had the time to put the results into the appropriate categories so that it can be properly investigated but I don't. Early results however shows that Xbox live service interruptions are discussed less frequently that psn service interruptions.

It seems to me that you did absolutely no research before replying to my post and you're trying to invalidate my argument under the blanket of anecdotal evidence. Please do some research then come talk to me. Until then, I have nothing else to say to you.

 

[Scrotum Phillips]

I really truly think the problem is because it's so early and there hasn't been that great of games on it yet, in the minds of many. There have been some really good and some great ones. Bloodborne, for example. But, I'm assuming for a lot of people, they just haven't gotten to use it like they wanted and all of a sudden here comes a newer, better one.

There has been no GT, the first Uncharted is just now releasing, etc, etc. This gen thus far hasn't been stellar on games to this point is an argument you see here and other places all of the time. The argument then put forth is, well it's early. Except it's not really early now. New hardware is coming.

To them they probably should have just waited but, they had no idea that this change would be coming so they didn't.

In the future, this iterative cycle will be no problem because people will know. They can decide to wait for the 5.5 or jump early on the 5 or whatever. It's the introduction of it, and the timing of that introduction coupled with the perceived value of what they've gotten, that I believe is causing the anger.

Another issue here is the time it takes to release a game. Each gen it seems to have gotten progressively longer as the games have gotten bigger. If hardware is to be upgraded every 3 years you might hit a point where you see 2 or 3 actual exclusives that are really good in those 3 years.

I'm sure that's what some are thinking, but it just seems categorically incorrect. I know all we have is rumors now, but the general consensus of them now is that largely nothing will change for "base" PS4 owners. We will all be buying the same games and playing on the same network as eachother.

 

[Davey Cakes]

I had an issue with the New 3DS for the same reason as most. The idea of dividing the userbase and making games run inferior on the older version just rubs me the wrong way.

Maybe I'm just throwing out a wild guess but the existence of a "PS4K" probably means that developers will only optimize the PS4K version and regular PS4 users will always feel left in the dust. I'd hope I'm wrong.

Assumptions and all that, but still.

 

[Bl4ckSunsh1n3]

I'm sure that's what some are thinking, but it just seems categorically incorrect. I know all we have is rumors now, but the general consensus of them now is that largely nothing will change for "base" PS4 owners. We will all be buying the same games and playing on the same network as eachother.

There is no conceivable way that nothing will change. I've been over that in here though and don't want to go back through it all.

 

[ShadowkillXNA]

Please explain how my post is ridiculous. Apart from my opinion on the ps4 library, I don't see how anything I've said is contentious.

- The ps4 released with under powered hardware and I consider this not to be debatable. There were many forum posts complaining about it during the final specs annoucement and we've seen the result in the games. Games that struggle to hold a 30 fps frame-rate this early into the gen.

-There have been several articles of recent questioning the value of ps plus on the ps4. Microsoft's GWG has be subjectively better and they allow you to keep the games after your subscription elapses.

-If we compare Microsoft's online infrastructure and Sony's, we can see that one suffers outages with less frequency than the other. Again, one is factually better.

-If we look just at this forum alone, the issue surrounding the ps4's launch controllers are well documented. Poor battery life, Analog sticks wearing out, Triggers getting stuck and etc are some of the many issues that plagued the launch of the ds4.

Again, the only opinionated issue I put forward in my previous argument is the quality of the games. If you think that the games are excellent, that's fine but there is evidence to support other parts of my argument.

The ps4 was as powerful as it could have possibly been for $399 at launch. We have seen what happens when consoles launch above that price and it isnt pretty. I mean you do realize Sony is a business and the goal of business is to make money right ?
You are correct, one online service has had more issues this gen and it isnt psn. Especially the last few months. Spouting the old myth about xbox live being "factually better" is nothing but hyperbolic fanboy bullshit.
Regarding ps+ games vs xbox live gold games is entirely subjective.
Both companies controllers have had issues this gen. There is a long running thread here about the xbox ones controllers continually disconnecting. I bought an xbox one in October 2015 and when I went to play the open beta for the division the left bumper was stuck and had to be fixed. After less than ten total hours of use. And this was one of the revised controllers.

 

[maximum360]

My wallet won't be happy about but my new 4K tv will. But seriously, this may just be the eventual evolution of the console market with incremental upgrades every few years instead of a big shift ever 6 years or so. I believe that's what Microsoft is doing with Windows 10 and beyond. [I know it's not software not hardware but you get the idea.]

 

[TheOfficeMut]

That's exactly why I think people are upset. If Sony had come out a year ago with a road-map or something and said we are doing this, I think it would have been accepted. But, they didn't because it would have been a good will gesture towards their community that would have negatively impacted sales.

Why should Sony have different expectations? What other company puts out a roadmap of products coming out within the next few years? I'm genuinely curious because I haven't seen that. We all expect future products that are more powerful, but now that's not enough anymore? They need to tell you in detail what they will release in several years? This makes little sense.

 

[JustenP88]

I had an issue with the New 3DS for the same reason as most. The idea of dividing the userbase and making games run inferior on the older version just rubs me the wrong way.

Maybe I'm just throwing out a wild guess but the existence of a "PS4K" probably means that developers will only optimize the PS4K version and regular PS4 users will always feel left in the dust.

Assumptions and all that, but still.

Why would they do that when PS4s will likely outnumber PS4Ks for at least a handful of years? By the time the numbers swing in the 4Ks favor, it will be well past the time for the PS4 to be put to bed.

 

[_Spr_Drnk]

That's exactly why I think people are upset. If Sony had come out a year ago with a road-map or something and said we are doing this, I think it would have been accepted. But, they didn't because it would have been a good will gesture towards their community that would have negatively impacted sales.

I dunno about other industries but we knew our chip roadmap looooooong before our customers knew something better was coming soon (for sure, of course, something better is ALWAYS round the corner in tech). We referred to it as not 'cannabalising sales', ie, our own sales for the near future. Sucks for consumers I know.

 

[GlamFM]

I had an issue with the New 3DS for the same reason as most. The idea of dividing the userbase and making games run inferior on the older version just rubs me the wrong way.

This is where your line of thought is wrong.

They´re not "making" the games run inferior on PS4, they are making the games run better on PS4K.

You are still getting exactly what you would have if the PS4K never existed.

And again - they are NOT splitting the userbase.

 

[Dr. Zoidberg]

exactly. Look at BLOPS on X1 vs BLOPS on 360.

Not a valid comparison. The 360 and X1 are completely different architectures requiring two very different software builds. PowerPC vs X86-64. The PS4 and PS4K will be roughly the same architecture with a little more juice under the hood of the new model. A difference for sure but nowhere near as as much work as what you've posted.

 

[Bert]

Had a PS4 for 3 months and it's out of date. Fuck this shit, last console gen for me if this bollocks keeps up. I factor console life into my purchase decisions, just like I would be pissed if Apple moved to a 3 month release schedule, I'm pissed here.

Also, gimpa the OG PS4 as it'll be an afterthought for the big games. Fuck whichever marketing twat came up with this. Save it for the PS5.

 

[Hermii]

Hail the mighty PS4K master race!

PS4 peasants be damned.

 

[EatinOlives]

This is where your line of thought is wrong.

They´re not "making" the games run inferior on PS4, they are making the games run better on PS4K.

You are still getting exactly what you would have if the PS4K never existed.

And again - they are NOT splitting the userbase.

Hyrule Warriors 3DS would likely not have been released if the original 3DS version was going to be the only one. It just doesn't perform well enough for something with Nintendo's name attached. The game is CLEARLY designed and intended to be played with the N3DS.

That's the real issue, is when games are designed specifically for the version of the hardware with superior specs. People in here like to say "nothing will change" as if the development focus will be exactly the same on the PS4k if they choose to make that its lead platform. The reality is that games will most likely not scale down the same way that they would perform if the same game was originally built for the base PS4.

In other words,
A game built and optimized for the PS4
=/=
A game built and optimized for the PS4K and then downscaled to PS4.

If the rebuttal to that is "nothing will change, I guarantee it", then there's even less reason for a PS4K and the discussion is moot anyway. We can't on the one hand celebrate the faster advancement of console specs while simultaneously insisting it won't make a difference.

 

[StoopKid]

Had a PS4 for 3 months and it's out of date. Fuck this shit, last console gen for me if this bollocks keeps up. I factor console life into my purchase decisions, just like I would be pissed if Apple moved to a 3 month release schedule, I'm pissed here.

Also, gimpa the OG PS4 as it'll be an afterthought for the big games. Fuck whichever marketing twat came up with this. Save it for the PS5.

But it isn't a 3 month refresh.

 

[Bl4ckSunsh1n3]

Why should Sony have different expectations? What other company puts out a roadmap of products coming out within the next few years? I'm genuinely curious because I haven't seen that. We all expect future products that are more powerful, but now that's not enough anymore? They need to tell you in detail what they will release in several years? This makes little sense.

You know what to expect when you purchase a phone. You'll be replacing it in two years. How do you know this? Because that's how it's always worked. For consoles, how has it always worked? Every 5 years or so you get a new announcement. That's what people expected because that's how it always has been.

Now, they're changing how it works right in the middle of the cycle. People didn't know and they expected what was happening in the past. Their purchasing decisions were made on this knowledge. So, naturally, they're upset because when they bought a PS4 3 months ago they thought they would have the best console experience for a few years still.

It's not about technology upgrades or anything like that. It's about people purchasing something based on past knowledge and then having that changed on them in a manner that probably feels like having the carpet pulled out from underneath you.

I dunno about other industries but we knew our chip roadmap looooooong before our customers knew something better was coming soon (for sure, of course, something better is ALWAYS round the corner in tech). We referred to it as not 'cannabalising sales', ie, our own sales for the near future. Sucks for consumers I know.

That's exactly it. We do the same where I'm at.

 

[Inuhanyou]

The PS4 is barely 2 years old. A majority of the games announced for PS4 I personally am anticipating, we have not even gotten yet.

And now we already have an upgraded unit...i don't like the thought of destroying the concept of generations and the concept of...turning older users of the same basic platform into second class citizens.

Regardless of what you want to say, PS4K is still based on PS4, and is still supposed to supposedly exist along side it.

One of the pillars of the console industry is that we DONT have this kind of segmented user base steam machine like situation where everyone plays on different units.

If the PS4K game runs better, and you play online, does that mean PS4K people get a better advantage than PS4 owners? When(not if) developers decide they cant even put their game on the PS4 anymore because they are trying to get everything out of PS4K, does that mean the pressure is on the consumer to buy into Sony's first class product?

Atleast with Nintendo, although i don't like it when they do it, alteast its confined to their own "ecosystem" of handhelds, so it has no broader implications. With consoles and the wider industry, it has consequences that i don't think the guys at Sony have fully thought through.

 

[Kyoufu]

I'm so glad I skipped this gen. The times they are a changing'.

You're glad you skipped video games? Okay.

 

[vpance]

I wonder if these 2 new boxes will output smaller titles at 4K. Because they sure as fuck won't be outputting the bigger ones at 4K.

Maybe not 4K native but they could upscale from 1440p. More real pixels the better.

 

[Mister Megative]

So no source.

Did Sony kill someone you love? Cause fucking hell.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I dunno about other industries but we knew our chip roadmap looooooong before our customers knew something better was coming soon (for sure, of course, something better is ALWAYS round the corner in tech). We referred to it as not 'cannabalising sales', ie, our own sales for the near future. Sucks for consumers I know.

It's that way for everything else .
Nobody needs to say we going get better cars , TVs , phones , tablets next year cause everyone already knows that .
It has not been that way for consoles but times do change plus 3 years is not bad etch wise.
IMO after a while people going to have to accept consoles going to be like everything else.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

Sony is basically asking me to spend 1800€ in the coming months, if I want to get the best Playstation experience.

PSVR, 500€ for me because I need the bundle.
Ps4k 400-500€
In order for the Ps4k to make sense I need a 4k TV, and 4k TV only make sense when the have HDR, and I haven't seen one of those for less than 900€.

And I'm sure that like 95% of the Ps4 userbase is in the same camp.
Nobody has a 4k TV and most people don't have a Playstation cam or move controllers.

This will split the userbase and it will hurt Ps4 sales, at the same time the required investment for Ps4k is too high to appeal to as big of a market as the Ps4s appeals to.


I'm excited for it, but right now I can't imagine how Sony is going to make it a success.

 

[El_Chino]

I still think is all an April Fools Day joke.

Denial's a bitch.

Spoiler

excuse my language

 

[SneakyStephan]

The ps4 was as powerful as it could have possibly been for $399 at launch. We have seen what happens when consoles launch above that price and it isnt pretty. I mean you do realize Sony is a business and the goal of business is to make money right ?

Consider that the original xbox, the xbox 360, the ps2 (and ofc the ps3, but for the wrong reasons) was sold at a loss and that the ps4 wasn't.

Console games come at a premium (platform holder royalties) , that is why the hardware itself has always been subsidized , to sweeten the deal with a low entry price for high hardware value (to be made back multiple times in software sales)

Combine that with the fact that sony are now raking in the cash with the ps+ multiplayer fees sony could and historically should definitely have subsidized the ps4 hardware.

They could have done a lot better for 400 dollars.

There's also the fact that they took the AMD contract and went for an APU design, which significantly limited their options. There is no way they went for the jaguar cpu because it was a great choice,they probably went with it because that's the only thing amd could deliver in a lower power apu at the time.


It was a smaller jump than usual (gpu) and a much smaller jump than usual (cpu) and a regular jump ram wise. It started out less powerful relative to previous gens and is aging faster relative to previous gens (especially now with the jump to 14nm)

Then there's the fact that the demand for performance is higher now that VR is a thing and now that 4k tvs become mainstream.

You can argue about how important it is for a ps4 to be powerful (the wii u is weak as shit and nintendo are pumping out 60 fps games that play well and look good) , but it IS a lot less powerful than it could have been.


Honestly the ps4 released at a weird time.

-just in time for a doubling of vram density (great)

but

- midway through the 28nm generation

-using a gpu architecture that was already quite old and outdated

A ps4.5 using polaris (god knows what cpu, I guess a polaris+excavator apu? I doubt they have a zen based apu yet) on a fresh 14nm fabrication process , possibly with gdd5x vram would be as cutting edge as a new console can be for the next 3-4 years.

 

[Bl4ckSunsh1n3]

It's that way for everything else .
Nobody needs to say we going get better cars , TVs , phones , tablets next year cause everyone already knows that .
It has not been that way for consoles but times do change plus 3 years is not bad etch wise.
IMO after a while people going to have to accept consoles going to be like everything else.

Which they absolutely will. The way it's being introduced, however, probably couldn't have been done much worse. It leaves a lot of current owners with a bad taste in their mouth and it could have been avoided.

 

[The God]

Did Sony kill someone you love? Cause fucking hell.

Lmao. Relax.

 

[TheSpecialOne]

The ps4 was as powerful as it could have possibly been for $399 at launch. We have seen what happens when consoles launch above that price and it isnt pretty. I mean you do realize Sony is a business and the goal of business is to make money right ?
You are correct, one online service has had more issues this gen and it isnt psn. Especially the last few months. Spouting the old myth about xbox live being "factually better" is nothing but hyperbolic fanboy bullshit.
Regarding ps+ games vs xbox live gold games is entirely subjective.
Both companies controllers have had issues this gen. There is a long running thread here about the xbox ones controllers continually disconnecting. I bought an xbox one in October 2015 and when I went to play the open beta for the division the left bumper was stuck and had to be fixed. After less than ten total hours of use. And this was one of the revised controllers.

You're talking to someone who's owned all the playstation consoles and 1 xbox console which is the 360 I recently picked up. I think you're using the term fan boy incorrectly. I'm making that claim based on the frequency in which service interruptions are discussed for both services. Again, PSN down is discussed more frequently than Xbox live down. What are you basing your assessment on? Anecdotal evidence? What evidence have you put forward to support your argument?

 

[SmiteOfHand]

Consider that the original xbox, the xbox 360, the ps2 (and ofc the ps3, but for the wrong reasons) was sold at a loss and that the ps4 wasn't.

They could have done a lot better for 400 dollars.

Microsoft couldn't at $500.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

The PS4 is barely 2 years old. A majority of the games announced for PS4 I personally am anticipating, we have not even gotten yet.

And now we already have an upgraded unit...i don't like the thought of destroying the concept of generations and the concept of...turning older users of the same basic platform into second class citizens.

Regardless of what you want to say, PS4K is still based on PS4, and is still supposed to supposedly exist along side it.

One of the pillars of the console industry is that we DONT have this kind of segmented user base steam machine like situation where everyone plays on different units.

If the PS4K game runs better, and you play online, does that mean PS4K people get a better advantage than PS4 owners? When(not if) developers decide they cant even put their game on the PS4 anymore because they are trying to get everything out of PS4K, does that mean the pressure is on the consumer to buy into Sony's first class product?

Atleast with Nintendo, although i don't like it when they do it, alteast its confined to their own "ecosystem" of handhelds, so it has no broader implications. With consoles and the wider industry, it has consequences that i don't think the guys at Sony have fully thought through.

This not a Sony thing .
All other companies want to do this also .
Starting back from zero every gen put pressure on everyone .
It's one of the reason why this gen start off so slow 3rd party wise .
If they stop making games for PS4 3 years from now that would be a gen .
So you can either get a PS4K which will be cheap or a PS5 .

 

[_Spr_Drnk]

It's that way for everything else .
Nobody needs to say we going get better cars , TVs , phones , tablets next year cause everyone already knows that .
It has not been that way for consoles but times do change plus 3 years is not bad etch wise.
IMO after a while people going to have to accept consoles going to be like everything else.

Agreed. Just confirming from someone whose been at the forefront of silicon technology (which when it boils down, is what this is really about) and not gadgets in general. The public are much less aware of the (rapidly dying for now) Moore's law.

 

[Let me in]

This only makes sense for console manufacturers.

Creating, developing and supporting a completely new platform every 5-6 years is an extremely costly and risky thing to do. If they do this, they're betting on PS4 as a long-term platform rather than a platform that dies with the obsolescence of the machine.

 

[clintar]

Which they absolutely will. The way it's being introduced, however, probably couldn't have been done much worse. It leaves a lot of current owners with a bad taste in their mouth and it could have been avoided.

You mean the way this leaked information was introduced? Or has there been some official statement I haven't seen yet?

 

[Mushroom021]

Regarding the "gimped" PS4 version of any game in particular. That version is not going to be any worse off because a PS4K version exists. It'll look the same either way. The only difference is the abundance of salt in the eyes that there's an even better version out there that you're not playing.

Edit:



Ok, I take that point. Pretty hilarious!

The source in the op directly contradicts that saying there will be considerable sacrifices on the original unit.

 

[GlamFM]

The source in the op directly contradicts that saying there will be considerable sacrifices on the original unit.

In relation to the PS4K version. The PS4 is still getting the version it would have regardless.

 

[Bl4ckSunsh1n3]

You mean the way this leaked information was introduced? Or has there been some official statement I haven't seen yet?

I mean the timing of it all. I know it's not official but if it is, and it looks like it is, then the timing of it is pretty poor.

 

[Gren]

I can be totally on board with this idea, as long as Sony guarantees forward compatibility of PS4 games with PS4K, PS5 etc. Don't want to end up owning 3 different consoles in 6 years and needing each one to play games dedicated to a single console.

If either Sony or MS would 100% commit to hardware-based forward compatibility (assuming these rumors pertaining to the former prove true) then it'd make this whole "blurring the lines between console gens" thing a bit easier to swallow. In Sony's case early adopters of the next proper PS5 can jump in knowing there's going to be a substantial upgrade eventually, but at least all of their PS4 games still work and assuming they skipped the PS4K, can possibly experience them with better visual fidelity/performance. And if Sony really thinks ahead of the curve, they can use the PS5 hardware to marginally improve upon the PS4/4K games as well, sorta like when one upgrades on PC.

Might not assuage everyone, but it'd give potential buyers a bit more confidence in their purchase, regardless of when it takes place in the console gen timespan.

 

[HighResTomato]

Glad I waited with buying a PS4.

 

[_Spr_Drnk]

Has anyone made the 'should be called PS432x CD' yet?

 

[Papacheeks]

Consider that the original xbox, the xbox 360, the ps2 (and ofc the ps3, but for the wrong reasons) was sold at a loss and that the ps4 wasn't.

Console games come at a premium (platform holder royalties) , that is why the hardware itself has always been subsidized , to sweeten the deal with a low entry price for high hardware value (to be made back multiple times in software sales)

Combine that with the fact that sony are now raking in the cash with the ps+ multiplayer fees sony could and historically should definitely have subsidized the ps4 hardware.

They could have done a lot better for 400 dollars.

There's also the fact that they took the AMD contract and went for an APU design, which significantly limited their options. There is no way they went for the jaguar cpu because it was a great choice,they probably went with it because that's the only thing amd could deliver in a lower power apu at the time.


It was a smaller jump than usual (gpu) and a much smaller jump than usual (cpu) and a regular jump ram wise. It started out less powerful relative to previous gens and is aging faster relative to previous gens (especially now with the jump to 14nm)

Then there's the fact that the demand for performance is higher now that VR is a thing and now that 4k tvs become mainstream.

You can argue about how important it is for a ps4 to be powerful (the wii u is weak as shit and nintendo are pumping out 60 fps games that play well and look good) , but it IS a lot less powerful than it could have been.


Honestly the ps4 released at a weird time.

-just in time for a doubling of vram density (great)

but

- midway through the 28nm generation

-using a gpu architecture that was already quite old and outdated

By that measure PS2 should have had the same innards as the xbox right? Because that console along with PS1 showed it didn't mean shit that it didn't have the latest and greatest. Developers still made games that were amazing. And sony wouldn't be where they are without those choices they made for hardware.

I see no difference between how sony built the PS4 compared to PS2. They got decent yields on the chips, and the dvd drive for PS2. Same goes for PS4 with GDDR5 chips being at a really good price.

Nintendo, and Sony have shown in the past you don't need top of the line to make a game that will connect with consumers. ANd that is the goal. Them possibly being in the market to make yearly or by yearly console refreshes goes away from that very philosophy.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Agreed. Just confirming from someone whose been at the forefront of silicon technology (which when it boils down, is what this is really about) and not gadgets in general. The public are much less aware of the (rapidly dying for now) Moore's law.

I agree unless something happens we are hitting that wall rather fast .
And it going to be harder and harder for consoles to get more power because of size , heat , price and power consumption .
At least a full gen wise .

 

[Crimson_Gold]

If either Sony or MS would 100% commit to hardware-based forward compatibility (assuming these rumors pertaining to the former prove true) then it'd make this whole "blurring the lines between console gens" thing a bit easier to swallow. In Sony's case early adopters of the next proper PS5 can jump in knowing there's going to be a substantial upgrade eventually, but at least all of their PS4 games still work and assuming they skipped the PS4K, can possibly experience them with better visual fidelity/performance. And if Sony really thinks ahead of the curve, they can use the PS5 hardware to marginally improve upon the PS4/4K games as well, sorta like when one upgrades on PC.

Might not assuage everyone, but it'd give potential buyers a bit more confidence in their purchase, regardless of when it takes place in the console gen timespan.

I believe the move to x86 was done for forward compatibility. Both Sony and Microsoft are making PlayStation and Xbox platforms that exist beyond a single generation. The hard resets are too risky and costly for devs. Consumers are growing to expect to buy an app once and use it forever. Games need to be the same. Well mostly the same in this

 

[SallyIsNow]

Will buy if backwards compatible. If not, I guess I'll build a PC.