digita1alchemy
Member
Hyperbole in the article title, but it's mostly valid points. Most big budget games (most games?) are largely fluff these days, so I don't see any reason to single out Uncharted.
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Eurogamer: Is Uncharted more 'walking simulator' than action game?
- Thread starter Raylan
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TheCanisDirus
Member
Agreed I'd actually LOVE that! Give me everything but combat but give me multiple "hunts" per game and let me set courses to different areas of the world in whatever order I want to uncover the prize.
Strangelove77
Member
Shitty titles are enough for me. Its clear that they don't care if you read it, they just want you to click it. No thanks, buddy.
because it does it better than its competitors which is what they were saying in the article.
He noted the reaction it gave him. NDs application of it though was quite different and has developed in a very different direction to Dear Esther, Gone a Home, etc. They clearly took the concept f understanding you could have down time but applied it cinematically. Allowing time with the characters and for development.
Where the article misses the point is the end result in Uncharted titles (and TLOU) is to successfully bring non-action character moments out f cutscenes and into gameplay (of a minimal sort). The "walking simulator" sub-genre (which I like while disliking the whole "walking simulator" description) does not really do this at all. Its all downtime and essentially an archeological uncovering f sat events to reveal a narrative or theme. This is nothing like how Uncharted games uses it.
The application is different so while the confidence to try it came partly from another genre it doesn't suddenly mean it sort of is that genre. ND has been all about creating fuller cinematic experience and character development within gameplay vs just having cutscenes all the time. Ironically they've gone where Kojima hasn't but should have in that regard.
Had the article been titled and angled towards their application and some of its roots in other genres it could have been great. As it is it has a classic modern attention grabbing title, some good points but seems to miss the big picture context wise and what ND did with the technique of "down time".
In fact thinking about it further I think the whole walking simulator is a red herring. It's about how to achieve downtime in an heavily interactive title which is way different from walking simulator goals.
really? even with the amount of shooting in some areas especially in the older games? it has just as much as any other third person shooter.
LabouredSubterfuge
Member
You showed them.
May your wilful ignorance guide you to yet more great life choices.
I think the article is making the mistake of correlating walking with climbing, or platforming or whatever else, which is slightly unfair. I'm also not even sure the automated reasoning is as valid for Uncharted 4 either, since a bulk of the time is spent using the ropeswing, mudslides and the rock pick, which actually do generally require not only an element of timing, but also player control in terms of movement and momentum. Hell in my play through I died far more from failed platforming attempts than I did deaths from gunfights, which I think highlights this point.
With respect to the climbing itself, I think with that, similar to say Assassin's Creed, the gameplay factor is more in discovery than it is actual timing, in other words, figuring out where you can or can't go, which climbing route to take to get to a certain point etc, almost akin to an advance form of exploration.
Add to that, Uncharted is an action adventure game, not just an action game, so if anything the game is more true to it's actual genre than many similar third person shooters of this nature are. UC4 in many ways is a pretty even split between the two, as the genre name suggests. Only the adventure side in this regard refers to exploring, climbing, swimming, swinging, discovering, solving etc.
With respect to the climbing itself, I think with that, similar to say Assassin's Creed, the gameplay factor is more in discovery than it is actual timing, in other words, figuring out where you can or can't go, which climbing route to take to get to a certain point etc, almost akin to an advance form of exploration.
Add to that, Uncharted is an action adventure game, not just an action game, so if anything the game is more true to it's actual genre than many similar third person shooters of this nature are. UC4 in many ways is a pretty even split between the two, as the genre name suggests. Only the adventure side in this regard refers to exploring, climbing, swimming, swinging, discovering, solving etc.
I was talking to my friend the day before we got the game and we both said the worst part of all the games was playing as young Drake. You can imagine our reactions when the 2nd chapter of UC4 is playing as young drake.
GlamFM
Banned
They were banned for "LOL gaming "press" click-bait bullshit" one liners.
Rightfully so.
Side note:
Will never understand why "clickbaiting" is supposed to be offensive in a medium that actually lives of clicks and provides content for fucking free.
I don't think this thread is a representative sample. I for one love the 'down time'. I've only played the first two hours of UC4, but already it feels more varied than the previous three games combined. Those were just straight up pop up shooters of waves of enemies ad nauseum (but without the game feel of the more accomplished ones) interpuncted with cutscenes and straightforward climbing. Now there are more traversal options, more dialogue during the game, more fighting styles, etc. But, I didn't feel compelled to complain about something I preferred.OléGunner;203483745 said:
DannyDanger
Member
Where are you in the game? Because this really just isn't true for U4. It was definitely the case in previous games, as there was only one direction you could go, and the bright yellow visual queues never let anyone get lost. But u4 isn't brain dead at all... There are many moments where u have to stop and figure out how you're gonna get somewhere, and there's even timed platforming sections that have failure states, and then there's the rope swinging, and the pike, you stab into the cliff side manually or else fall, sliding sections where u have to either slide down the correct path, and time your jumps, or die. There might not be unlimited paths of traversal, but it's not a one way street, with 0 consequences. Especially if u turn of game hints, there are even climbing paths that lead to dead ends.
I've played every Uncharted and the climbing has always pissed me off for being some hand holding bullshit that acts like the player can't think for himself, it's not nearly as bad in U4. But again I turned off game hints, and play on hard. Maybe it's different
Same, loved the ability to just explore and enjoy the atmosphere and the chatter without constantly being shot at or running around like crazy like in the older games.
The combat in Naughty Dog games are easily my least favorite parts of them. By a huge margin.
The UC2 village sequence that the article mentions is my favorite part of that game. The traversal bits are the key moments of TLOU that I remember before I quit that game.
While I can see their point, and agree that Naughty Dog are at their best when they are not dropping you into an arena with knee high cover littering the ground while surrounding you with 20 foes.. I can't really agree with their assertion that Uncharted is seminal in the proliferation of "walking sim" games.
Hearing Jeff Gerstmann's complaints in the last Bombcast actually really hyped me up for UC4 because everything that he was complaining about are the aspects of Naughty Dog games that I enjoy.
The UC2 village sequence that the article mentions is my favorite part of that game. The traversal bits are the key moments of TLOU that I remember before I quit that game.
While I can see their point, and agree that Naughty Dog are at their best when they are not dropping you into an arena with knee high cover littering the ground while surrounding you with 20 foes.. I can't really agree with their assertion that Uncharted is seminal in the proliferation of "walking sim" games.
Hearing Jeff Gerstmann's complaints in the last Bombcast actually really hyped me up for UC4 because everything that he was complaining about are the aspects of Naughty Dog games that I enjoy.
well, it also talks about the lack of agency and lack of interactivity that is covered up by how well designed its downtown is. they compare it to some walking simulators by saying one scene of autoplatforming isn't much more interactive than selecting dialogue in firewatch and i kind of agree.
yea, one of the best parts in UC2 was when you were exploring the ice caves with Tenzen. Nothing but pure traversal.
Where are you in the game? There are plenty of wide open areas to explore and shoot dudes. Of course, the game will have you go into a specific path to continue the story.
The game was a hell of a lot more walk, talk and explore then I expected, but I think the non-shooty bits were my favourite part and with combat encounters usually being spread out, I felt ND really went all out on them, with almost all the encounters being memorial and really well designed. Also don't know if this was ND's plan, but they tricked me a few times, with areas looking like they were designed to be shootouts, but never where, made chest high walls not look out or place in the actual shootouts.
I also really can't wait for TLoU 2, ND must have learned a lot with Uncharted 4, that would suit TLoU perfectly.
I also really can't wait for TLoU 2, ND must have learned a lot with Uncharted 4, that would suit TLoU perfectly.
Primethius
Banned
I think this is a pretty stupid article based off the excerpt (can't access the website atm).
It essentially amounts to "no difficulty = no skill required = what amounts to a walking simulator."
It's far too reductionist for my tastes and I don't even agree with the difficulty angle, especially as it relates to UC4.
As much as I would love to dismiss a game like Shadow of Mordor based on this reasoning, the criticism just feels empty, hollow and not very thought out.
It essentially amounts to "no difficulty = no skill required = what amounts to a walking simulator."
It's far too reductionist for my tastes and I don't even agree with the difficulty angle, especially as it relates to UC4.
As much as I would love to dismiss a game like Shadow of Mordor based on this reasoning, the criticism just feels empty, hollow and not very thought out.
Look at all dem people getting needlessly offended.
Uncharted 4 is the most "cinematic" experience ND has attempted to craft so far, and a lot of it is comprised of walking around, just looking around the environment or talking with your buddies, and not doing much on the action side. The first a couple hours are borderline an interactive movie really.
When the author called UC2 as the originator of this "genre", I thought he was talking nonsense, but he really did explain his point, and maybe he's right. Maybe UC2 did spark something here. After all, the breezy platforming is not all that different from walking, effectively. There's no challenge there. And more crucially, the whole village sequence of the game (including the ice caves) is one of the most if not the most memorable part of the entire game, and maybe even the entire franchise. It's calm and relaxing nature provided something entirely different to a game and genre generally populated by nonstop murdering.
Uncharted 4 is the most "cinematic" experience ND has attempted to craft so far, and a lot of it is comprised of walking around, just looking around the environment or talking with your buddies, and not doing much on the action side. The first a couple hours are borderline an interactive movie really.
When the author called UC2 as the originator of this "genre", I thought he was talking nonsense, but he really did explain his point, and maybe he's right. Maybe UC2 did spark something here. After all, the breezy platforming is not all that different from walking, effectively. There's no challenge there. And more crucially, the whole village sequence of the game (including the ice caves) is one of the most if not the most memorable part of the entire game, and maybe even the entire franchise. It's calm and relaxing nature provided something entirely different to a game and genre generally populated by nonstop murdering.
Druckmann and Straley also worked on UC2 so there are similarities.
Ocarina_117
Banned
The article did none of this.
It refers to the scenes between action sequences where the games slows it's pacee down and lets the story breath. Where characterization and the well crafted world take over the shooting and explosions. It mentions the Tibeten village of UC2 prior to the climax of the game and praises interactions such as kicking a soccer ball. Heck it even says UC2 paved the way for cames like Journey, Dear Esther and the sort.
SplitYourInfinities
Member
I think he is on point and there is nothing wrong with it. Uncharted 4 does this flawlessly.
gonna be amazing.
TheWorthyEdge
Member
Okay, I'm going to try this again because I feel like this article is actually redundant and irrelevant especially with Uncharted 4.
Uncharted 4 has created setpieces that allow for the player to interact with them more than any other action sequences in any other games. I have actually been quite surprised by the lack of SLAM DOWN THIS BUTTON for x amount of times. There have been some but nothing crazy like the previous games. There haven't been any quick time events because you're actually playing the event.
Chapter
, some can say, is an entire set piece upon itself and the greatest thing is that your playing through it all with maximum levels of interactivity. The
in 4,
amounting to the most interactive set piece I've ever witnessed in a game. Why didn't they make this article when Rise of the Tomb Raider came out (I've played RotTR and loved it)? That was more "walking simulator than action game".
Something I said in my post that assumingly got deleted was that the term "walking simulator" is dumb. Is life a walking simulator, or a breathing simulator? No it's called life even though we walk and breath more than anything else. Is doing construction called arm moving simulator? No lol It's construction. So to say that Uncharted is a walking simulator is silly. Nate and Sam may be walking but ultimately they're treasure hunting, may as well call it Treasure Hunting simulator.
There's a reason why there is an action/adventure genre. It's for games like this and Tomb Raider. In Uncharted 4 it just so happens that they put Adventure first. Are Indiana Jones movies Action movies? No, they're Action/Adventure with Adventure coming first and that's the biggest inspiration for these games.
I can agree with them slightly, that the first Uncharted's aren't extraordinarily interactive but the best Set pieces are. The train in 2? Fully interactive and is among the best in the series.
Uncharted 4 has created setpieces that allow for the player to interact with them more than any other action sequences in any other games. I have actually been quite surprised by the lack of SLAM DOWN THIS BUTTON for x amount of times. There have been some but nothing crazy like the previous games. There haven't been any quick time events because you're actually playing the event.
Chapter
11
car chase finding Sam
had you running, jumping, sliding, gunning, and driving
Something I said in my post that assumingly got deleted was that the term "walking simulator" is dumb. Is life a walking simulator, or a breathing simulator? No it's called life even though we walk and breath more than anything else. Is doing construction called arm moving simulator? No lol It's construction. So to say that Uncharted is a walking simulator is silly. Nate and Sam may be walking but ultimately they're treasure hunting, may as well call it Treasure Hunting simulator.
There's a reason why there is an action/adventure genre. It's for games like this and Tomb Raider. In Uncharted 4 it just so happens that they put Adventure first. Are Indiana Jones movies Action movies? No, they're Action/Adventure with Adventure coming first and that's the biggest inspiration for these games.
I can agree with them slightly, that the first Uncharted's aren't extraordinarily interactive but the best Set pieces are. The train in 2? Fully interactive and is among the best in the series.
Teletraan1
Banned
So if it was non stop combat would the articles now be: Is Uncharted a murder simulator? They probably tried to pace the game with those exploration parts to alleviate the steady stream of MURDERER commentary that has plagued this series. I think the game strikes a nice enough balance. If you want non stop killing or more action then play MP or play specific encounters. A lot of the commentary surrounding this game is Goldylocks Ism at its finest.
I just wanted to highlight these two back-to-back posts.
On a random aside (@MODEYV3), people who declare a hatred of clickbait article titles without actually reading to see how an article builds a case for and attempts to justify the title are the clickbait of posters.
GlamFM
Banned
Are you willing to comment on an article twice that you have not read?
I've only just made it to M
, which I'm sure isn't even the halfway point, so any judgment I make about this game has to be highly provisional at this point. Having said that, I think the author has a pretty good point. I love the Uncharted series -- I platinumed all three games on PS3, and then re-platinumed the remasters -- but I'm just not really feeling U4. It looks fantastic, and the character development is outstanding, but I enjoyed the action sequences in the first three games, and so far U4 really doesn't have nearly as much combat as what I expect from the franchise. There's a huge amount of platforming and walking about, punctuated by the occasional gunfight, when these games are usually the other way around.
Then again, I've always felt that all three games got off to slow starts. If this one picks up, I'll happily revise my opinion. Right now, though, I'm looking forward to getting back to Dark Souls 3.
adagascar
Then again, I've always felt that all three games got off to slow starts. If this one picks up, I'll happily revise my opinion. Right now, though, I'm looking forward to getting back to Dark Souls 3.
VibratingDonkey
Member
Slower paced bits can be great. As long as it's engaging in some manner, be it visually interesting, atmospheric, fun to explore, adds to the story, characters, builds the world... Uncharted is typically good at this stuff.
The climbing in Uncharted though has always been sort of filler. There is some drama or visual flair to it on occasion, but when it's just getting from one place to another, it's not particularly engaging. You're basically just holding the stick and mashing a button until it's over. It's probably the least good part about Uncharted. In my memory they've kept it short though. You climb for like a minute and then you're doing something else. I've heard Uncharted 4 is heavy on it in the beginning though.
The climbing in Uncharted though has always been sort of filler. There is some drama or visual flair to it on occasion, but when it's just getting from one place to another, it's not particularly engaging. You're basically just holding the stick and mashing a button until it's over. It's probably the least good part about Uncharted. In my memory they've kept it short though. You climb for like a minute and then you're doing something else. I've heard Uncharted 4 is heavy on it in the beginning though.
it picks up.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
Bethesda games do get called walking simulators, yes.
Title is clickbatey but the article is really good. Since the writing, acting and presentation of the uncharted series is so good those games can get away with having simplistic gameplay. At the same time that very nature is a put off for a lot of people who think gameplay should be top priority for all games.
This thread is amazing
Ocarina_117
Banned
You should practice reading the full article before commenting.
The article is full of praise for the pacing of Uncharted games and how Naughty Dog's crafting of the world and characters allowed them to take the risk. They went as far as saying UC2 paved the way for slower story based games with no action at all.
Again I say ITT reading comprehension fails. Heck people outright refusing to read the article are in this read bashing it which is ridiculous. Eurogamer is one of the bets new outlets there are for video games and have produced a well written piece. This a day after their fantastic work with the Lionhead article.
People need to let go of their ultra-sensitivity when it comes to what they perceive to be criticism to a cherished game of theirs. Its caused praise for a developer's work to be misconstrued into criticism.
Primethius
Banned
I quite literally prefaced my post with saying I had only read the excerpt because Eurogamer is blocked currently.
So... I can only really blame the OP.