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[nib95]

The article did none of this.

It refers to the scenes between action sequences where the games slows it's praise down and lets the story breath. Where characterization and the well crafted world take over the shooting and explosions. It mentions the Tibeten village of UC2 prior to the climax of the game and praises interactions such as kicking a soccer ball. Heck it even says UC2 paved the way for cames like Journey, Dear Esther and the sort.

Erm, yes it did.

The genre has since come to be labelled somewhat derisively as "walking simulators" - a video game with precious little interactivity and no game-over state.

Of course The Uncharted games do have a failure state and you spend most of their running time engaged in third-person combat. On that level, they're still fairly traditional action games. But Uncharted 2 and its successors only dedicate a little over half of their running time to such mechanics. So what do you do the rest of the time?

Not a lot, interactively. Sometimes you simply watch cutscenes and have zero input whatsoever. The rest of the time you're being funnelled through intentionally frictionless scripted puzzles or button-tapping your way through automated platforming sequences. Technically you're still "playing" the game, but your agency is left out of your hands.

Now go back and read my post again.

I think the article is making the mistake of correlating walking with climbing, or platforming or whatever else, which is slightly unfair. I'm also not even sure the automated reasoning is as valid for Uncharted 4 either, since a bulk of the time is spent using the ropeswing, mudslides and the rock pick, which actually do generally require not only an element of timing, but also player control in terms of movement and momentum. Hell in my play through I died far more from failed platforming attempts than I did deaths from gunfights, which I think highlights this point.

With respect to the climbing itself, I think with that, similar to say Assassin's Creed, the gameplay factor is more in discovery than it is actual timing, in other words, figuring out where you can or can't go, which climbing route to take to get to a certain point etc, almost akin to an advance form of exploration.

Add to that, Uncharted is an action adventure game, not just an action game, so if anything the game is more true to it's actual genre than many similar third person shooters of this nature are. UC4 in many ways is a pretty even split between the two, as the genre name suggests. Only the adventure side in this regard refers to exploring, climbing, swimming, swinging, discovering, solving etc.

 

[Wiped89]

Not everyone has to like everything. Some prefer the Nintendo approach, where a game is all about gameplay mechanics and story is an afterthought.

I love love love the Uncharted games and I very much enjoy the ride, clipscenes and all, and it has some very tough sections.

There's room for both.

 

[LiK]

Agreed.


Going back to my previous posts... I've been thinking about it more and Half Life 2 is the reason why I am hesitant to give UC2 the "inspiration to walking sim games" mantle. UC2 seemed like an entirely natural progression of the non-combat sequences in HL2.

Agree

 

[Deleted member 325805]

I wish The Last of us and Uncharted came without combat. They'd be the greatest exploration games ever

I would love for Naughty Dog to do a game in the style of Telltale.

 

[Jebusman]

You know how there's an entire category of people who were willing to dismiss Undertale as a whole because of the neverending praise combined with the refusal to accept any criticism that it's more rabid fans engaged in?

That is exactly how this thread is making me feel about Uncharted 4. And the Uncharted franchise in general

Even the slight idea that someone would write something negative about UC4 (which isn't even the point of the article!) requires you to jump to defend it's honor and dismiss everything about the source. It's literally unfathomable to you that maybe Uncharted isn't some untouchable perfection of video games.

It's insufferable.

Uncharted is an incredibly well designed roller coaster designed to take you on a very specific and defined ride with ups and downs. There is nothing wrong with that. Many games have done this before. Get over yourself.

 

[TheWorthyEdge]

Also, I'm not saying this is a bad article because it's written well, and makes good points but I just disagree with the sentiments of calling it a "walking simulator".

 

[Arion]

Haven't read the whole article but I 100% agree with the part in OP. The interaction is close to non-existent, and you can only do what they want you to do. It's basically to this gen (and last gen) what on-rails shooters were to arcade machines.

Not quite. Those arcade shooters at their core were about the shooting, getting high scores etc and whatever story they had was simply filler. Where as the Uncharted games at their core is about the storytelling and shooting bits are there to add variety.

Also, what is it gonna take to get inside people's brains and turn "walking simulator" into a non-derogatory term? It really isn't.

 

[OfTheOverflow]

Walking simulator or mass-murderer; pick one.

 

[entremet]

Not everyone has to like everything. Some prefer the Nintendo approach, where a game is all about gameplay mechanics and story is an afterthought.

I love love love the Uncharted games and I very much enjoy the ride, clipscenes and all, and it has some very tough sections.

There's room for both.

Just so you're aware, the writer likes U4. He's very clear about that in the article.

 

[maximum360]

This thread is a graveyard. I mean it's an opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Whompa02]

If you make an uncharted game about shooting tons of badguys = Drake is a relentless murderer and it needs to stop

If you make an uncharted game where you don't always shoot tons of badguys = it's a walking simulator

This is why I never take this kind of journalism seriously. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

[SomTervo]

Gameplay length. What else. MGS can kind of get away with its issues because it had the gameplay to back it up. MGS4 and Uncharted 3 messed this up imo. For the 7 hours I've played U4 I feel most of it was cutscenes, scripted events and autoplatforming. Did you also think it was awesome for you to be forced to try to steal a keycard 5 times and fail?

You're probably only just halfway through the game if you've been playing for 7 hours. And I doubt you have. Only the first 3-5 hours are cutscene-heavy (they feel a lot longer than 3-5 hours, too).

 

[Hard]

If it is, then it's one hell of a walking simulator.

You can even run and jump! How crazy is that!

 

[Clear]

Uncharted 2 didn't invent pacing.

Metal Gear has been doing this from day #1, with the ladder of awe from MGS3 being the defining example.

I take issue with the piece because its one of those instances where the logic of its central argument falls apart if you don't accept the writers narrow-view of interactivity.

The MGS ladder scene I cite is a classic example of "non-gameplay" that could only exist, could only work in a piece of interactive entertainment. Yes, snake can only climb up that ladder, and it is the very definition of an "on rails" segment, but its as powerful and as memorable a moment as any in an extremely bombastic, cinematic game.

 

[dickgumshoe]

So, is walking simulator the biggest insult to a game?

 

[Mr. Giggles]

I like the walking bits tbh :3

Lets me take time to soak in the environment and admire the hard work the designers put in before going back to the shooting and set pieces

 

[mjp2417]

Going back to my previous posts... I've been thinking about it more and Half Life 2 is the reason why I am hesitant to give UC2 the "inspiration to walking sim games" mantle. UC2 seemed like an entirely natural progression of the extended non-combat sequences in HL2.

Yeah, strictly causally at least this probably makes a lot more sense, particularly as avatars of the genre like Dear Esther and The Stanley Parable began life as HL2 mods. The Madagascar sections in UC4, interestingly enough, reminded me of Episode 2 more than anything as well.

 

[TheWorthyEdge]

This thread is a graveyard. I mean it's an opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.

So we should be able to voice our opinions as well. I understand those that are getting banned for simply posting bullshit without reading the article, but other people (other than mods) shouldn't be dismissing the opinions of those that disagree with these statements.

 

[labx]

Guys... Read the article. Don't judge Eurogamer for a click bait tittle. The article say (my interpretation) that U4 is a cinematic experience with a ton of awe moments and that is GOOD. The "sin" of Eurogamer is the "sin" of every online videogame magazine: click bait tittles because that is how they can afford what they do?

So give it a try. Actually how cool would be a U5 or The Last Of Us 2 with less combat and more exploration?

 

[nib95]

You know how there's an entire category of people who were willing to dismiss Undertale as a whole because of the neverending praise combined with the refusal to accept any criticism that it's more rabid fans engaged in?

That is exactly how this thread is making me feel about Uncharted 4. And the Uncharted franchise in general

Even the slight idea that someone would write something negative about UC4 (which isn't even the point of the article!) requires you to jump to defend it's honor and dismiss everything about the source. It's literally unfathomable to you that maybe Uncharted isn't some untouchable perfection of video games.

It's insufferable.

Uncharted is an incredibly well designed roller coaster designed to take you on a very specific and defined ride with ups and downs. There is nothing wrong with that. Many games have done this before. Get over yourself.

Who are you actually referring to? Fanboys? Fanboys exist for every platform and game, especially extremely good games that have had an extremely positive reception. To your point though, the OT is full of differing opinions, praise and obviously to a lesser, but still real extent, criticism. There's been a lot of discussion among people about UC4's pacing, and whether it's been taken in a better direction or not, with some preferring the more action heavy approach of say, UC2, and others preferring more exposition, platforming and exploration.

I really don't understand what even compelled your post, and I think it may be fuelled partly by your own confirmation bias.

 

[Altairre]

Welp, did not expect this thread to become a graveyard. If you're so upset by the headline that you're not willing to read the article then why take the time out of your day to post here at all?

Anyway, while I think that the article has a point in that there is a lot of downtime and room for dialogue and character interaction (which the author seems to appreciate just as much as I do), the reason why some of the setpieces in U4 are so fantastic is because you get to actually play them. They do the interactivity part in those better than most other games, for example at the end of chapter

Spoiler

11

. Yes, it looks exciting but it's also way more than just a cutscene.

 

[SomTervo]

With the amount of shooting in some segments, calling it a walking simulator seems unfair. Also, traversal isn't automatic, you can still die if you make mistakes.

This is very important. The definition of "walking simulator" is, broadly, no challenge - more specifically no failstate. You can't die. There isn't really any risk. You walk and the story is revealed to you. Sometimes they have non-failstate puzzles built in, but these are usually not the core of the experience so they don't quite fit 'puzzle' game either.

I think in every chapter of Uncharted 4 it's possible to die. Even ones where you are led from A to B by a character, the more scripted ones. Take a step somewhere you're not supposed to and you'll die.

That's antithetical to what 'walking simulator' means.

 

[Gattsu25]

So, is walking simulator the biggest insult to a game?

I've been struggling to word this in a non-insulting manner and it's hard. Here's the answer that I landed on:

Only to people who have exceptionally shallow interests in games that nearly perfectly align with the marketing strategies of big budget publishers

 

[entremet]

So we should be able to voice our opinions as well. I understand those that are getting banned for simply posting bullshit without reading the article, but other people (other than mods) shouldn't be dismissing the opinions of those that disagree with these statements.

The issue is that they're commenting on the quality of article without saying why.

It's a shitpost, throught and through. It's what toddlers with temper tantrums do, whine without reason.

People have criticized the article and haven't been banned.

But if your only contribution is "clickbait, won't read", and such, don't be surprised for taking a ban. Those statements don't really add anything to the discussion.

 

[Ferr986]

You know how there's an entire category of people who were willing to dismiss Undertale as a whole because of the neverending praise combined with the refusal to accept any criticism that it's more rabid fans engaged in?

That is exactly how this thread is making me feel about Uncharted 4. And the Uncharted franchise in general

Even the slight idea that someone would write something negative about UC4 (which isn't even the point of the article!) requires you to jump to defend it's honor and dismiss everything about the source. It's literally unfathomable to you that maybe Uncharted isn't some untouchable perfection of video games.

It's insufferable.

Uncharted is an incredibly well designed roller coaster designed to take you on a very specific and defined ride with ups and downs. There is nothing wrong with that. Many games have done this before. Get over yourself.

I mean, sure it happens, but it also happens with Mario games, Halo, Dark Souls... What you are describing is just fanboys attitude, it doesnt have anything to do with Uncharted.

Btw, I dont care about Uncharted.

 

[Curufinwe]

Isn't it pretty well-established that Uncharted 2+ openly sacrificed player agency in the name of cinematic immersion, to degrees beyond what was typically considered acceptable anywhere else? That's pretty much Uncharted's USP.

I don't really see much difference between how Uncharted plays or uses cut scenes, and a lot of other third person shooters.

 

[Deku Tree]

I don't think the term "walking simulator" is pejorative at all.

 

[sturgboski]

Hmm, now that I think about it, so is SFV. I mean, you are constantly walking to the left and right.

What, you can jump and perform special moves? I hear ya, but you still are walking.

First Edit: Maybe I am being dense, but outside of schmups and roguelikes, I cant think of many, if any games, that have true game over states. If talking about full blown cinematics, where was this article for the Order? Or hell, Quantum Break which shifts between TV show and gameplay? Admittedly, I have not started Uncharted 4 yet (waiting for the weekend), but unless it drifted toward the Order's setup of 90% cinema, 10% walking to next cinema, I dont get it.

Also, seriously, that first line? Are they trying to stir up controversy for controversy sake?

The first line is accurate as all hell, though.

Fair enough, but it still comes off wrong. Seems weird that its only the Uncharted series that seems to get that argument leveraged against it in articles or forum posts about him killing enemies. Or at least that is what it appears to me as.

 

[Mman235]

Agreed.


Going back to my previous posts... I've been thinking about it more and Half Life 2 is the reason why I am hesitant to give UC2 the "inspiration to walking sim games" mantle. UC2 seemed like an entirely natural progression of the extended non-combat sequences in HL2.

While narrative/character focus came later, non-combat gameplay was pretty typical in older action games (at least by comparison to the idea of an action game today), including HL1 as well. Hell, given the constant attempts at comparisons between them the non-combat parts in Uncharted could be said to be inspired by the original Tomb Raiders (even if the non-combat parts in those games were both longer and much more skill-focused).

 

[pixellated_man]

I think he is on point and there is nothing wrong with it. Uncharted 4 does this flawlessly.

Exactly. I think the title of the article is a little click baitey though. Although the content of it is actually very complimentary about the Uncharted series.
People READ the article. It's actually touches upon some of the series strengths despite what the title would have you believe.

 

[Gattsu25]

Hmm, now that I think about it, so is SFV. I mean, you are constantly walking to the left and right.

What, you can jump and perform special moves? I hear ya, but you still are walking.

Also, seriously, that first line? Are they trying to stir up controversy for controversy sake?

The first line is accurate as all hell, though.

 

[Ratrat]

You're probably only just halfway through the game if you've been playing for 7 hours. And I doubt you have. Only the first 3-5 hours are cutscene-heavy (they feel a lot longer than 3-5 hours, too).

Is it unfathomable that playtimes can vary by an hour or two? Nah, Im making shit up aparently.

 

[TheWorthyEdge]

The issue is that they're commenting on the quality of article without saying why.

It's a shitpost, throught and through. It's what toddlers with temper tantrums do, whine without reason.

People have criticized the article and haven't been banned.

But if your only contribution is "clickbait, won't read", and such, don't be surprised for taking a ban. Those statements don't really add anything to the discussion.

I feel like I just said all that.

I understand those that are getting banned for simply posting bullshit without reading the article

I clearly stated that I understand why these people are getting banned, but the people disagreeing with Eurogamer are being dismissed as Uncharted fanboys or they "haven't read the article."

 

[hodgy100]

Are they serious? They're really willing to stoop that low, just for click bait. I'm not going to read it, I do hope for the sake of humanity they conclude that it isn't. Otherwise how the hell do people still visit that place.

Read the article

 

[dealer-]

Holy shit, first page is a tomb of banned accounts. I think the combat to walking ratio is better in UC4.

The pirate story was great so I loved searching for new notes, treasure and partaking in the optional conversations. There were far too many goons in the previous games, it actually feels more realistic this time and indicative of what would be a decent sized army.

 

[Ansatz]

But Uncharted 2 and its successors only dedicate a little over half of their running time to such mechanics. So what do you do the rest of the time?

Not a lot, interactively. Sometimes you simply watch cutscenes and have zero input whatsoever. The rest of the time you're being funnelled through intentionally frictionless scripted puzzles or button-tapping your way through automated platforming sequences. Technically you're still "playing" the game, but your agency is left out of your hands.

Exactly this. The games are largely brain-dead outside of the cover based TPS parts, which are not even that interesting to begin with. Vanquish is infinitely better at that, plus it brings a unique twist as everything in the game is designed around the slide mechanic.

 

[pixellated_man]

Guys... Read the article. Don't judge Eurogamer for a click bait tittle. The article say (my interpretation) that U4 is a cinematic experience with a ton of awe moments and that is GOOD. The "sin" of Eurogamer is the "sin" of every online videogame magazine: click bait tittles because that is how they can afford what they do?

So give it a try. Actually how cool would be a U5 or The Last Of Us 2 with less combat and more exploration?

Perfectly summarises what I've been trying to get across to people. Good job.

 

[notaskwid]

Isn't Mario just a walking simulator without the jumping and running?

Is there more running or jumping in a Mario game? I guess Mario is more of a walking simulator than a platformer, just like Ratchet is more of a Shooter than a platformer!

 

[Gattsu25]

While narrative/character focus came later, non-combat gameplay was pretty typical in older action games, including HL1 as well. Hell, given the constant attempts at comparisons between them the non-combat parts in Uncharted could be said to be inspired by the original Tomb Raiders (even if the non-combat parts in those games were both longer and much more skill-focused).

Oh absolutely. This can be traced back to games like the original Prince of Persia, as well.

I agree with a lot of the article, just not that specific assertion. At least, not 100%. Games work to influence other games. Building on the lessons and experiences of what came before is part of why games remain so exciting.

However, I wouldn't consider UC2 to be the most influential game in that respect (laying the groundwork for the walking simulators) as that ground was already well worn IMO.

Also, Silent Hill: Shattered Memories was entirely a walking simulator (of a different subgenre) that came out in the same year as UC2. The path was well tread by 2009.

 

[StoveOven]

Exactly this. The games are largely brain-dead outside of the cover based TPS parts, which are not even that interesting to begin with. Vanquish is infinitely better at that, plus it brings a unique twist as everything in the game is designed around the slide mechanic.

Your mistake (and the mistake of a lot of other people here) is assuming that the author thinks that's a bad thing.

 

[ReplacementPelican]

What an article. Oh my God.

 

[Aaron D.]

So, is walking simulator the biggest insult to a game?

Perhaps a few years ago, but the genre has matured to the point where considering the term an insult just doesn't make sense anymore.

Too many highly-praised games in the Walking Sim genre have come out since the term was coined, and while it started as a slight it's is now an accepted, affectionate term for exploration & story-focused titles.

 

[platocplx]

I think he is on point and there is nothing wrong with it. Uncharted 4 does this flawlessly.

Yeah I agree with it by reading the whole article lol.

Walking simulator may not the right terminology but i understand the premise.

But the way the game paces action, and walking(simulation) with you just enjoying the sights of the adventure and not pressured into always having non stop challenges of dexterity(where they mention removal of some player agency) is pretty awesome and done well.

Overall imo the author is getting at that a game doesn't have to be totally free flowing, non stop dexterity challenging affairs and if its scripted well you can absolutely have a great time playing.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

I don't really see much difference between how Uncharted plays or uses cut scenes, and a lot of other third person shooters.

I suppose the difference would be that In the first half of the game (which is all I've played so far), theres not much shooting. The gameplay is more heavily weighted towards traversal, cutscenes and exploration. I don't see it as a bad thing and have been really enjoying the game but I'm hoping the balance shifts later on because I enjoy the combat.

 

[nib95]

So give it a try. Actually how cool would be a U5 or The Last Of Us 2 with less combat and more exploration?

Not that cool. I would have already preferred UC4 had more gunplay or gunfights, and the combat is actually one of my favourite things about the franchise. Besides maybe Tomb Raider, I don't think other TPS's offer the same sort of freedom of mobility these games do, which is why the gunfights appeal to me so much more. Uncharted 4 more than any other shooter before it, as they've massively opened up combat arena's, and filled them with even more mechanics and options for far greater potential diversity and experimentation.

As I said before, I think the way to remedy this balance issue, is to have Normal difficulty have gunfights with fewer enemy waves and enemies, and the harder difficulties more. It is the gunfights that mostly add to the difficulty after all. That way people like me, who greatly enjoy the combat, can stick to Crushing etc if we want more enemy waves to test our skill. They've actually done this to a certain extent with UC4, but not enough imo, at least not in the first half or two thirds of the game. The majority of Crushing has still been too easy imo, even with a few added enemies and harder enemy types, and most gunfights have still been over a bit too quick for me. Crushing should have added at least an extra full enemy wave or two, instead of just less than a handful of additional enemies here and there.

 

[imBask]

Your mistake (and the mistake of a lot of other people here) is assuming that the author thinks that's a bad thing.

what if I (and some other people here) I think that's a bad thing and that prevents me from enjoying the game? I think that's what this poster was getting at

 

[Hibiki Kurosawa]

The lack of player agency in a lot of areas is one of the reasons (combined with others) that makes these games so difficult for me to play. I just can't enjoy them.

 

[pixellated_man]

I'd like to add the 'read the article before commenting' also applies to people who are using the article to shit on the game. Sorry, but the piece actually commends the game for the non interactive stuff that you hate about Uncharted.
Gosh, this game seems to bring out the worst in people on both sides!

 

[Jawmuncher]

Not that cool. I would have already preferred UC4 had more gunplay or gunfights, and the combat is actually one of my favourite things about the franchise. Besides maybe Tomb Raider, I don't think other TPS's offer the same sort of freedom of mobility these games do, which is why the gunfights appeal to me so much more. Uncharted 4 more than any other shooter before it, as they've massively opened up combat arena's, and filled them with even more mechanics and options for far greater potential diversity and experimentation.

I'm right there with you. We seem to be the few who were a bit bummed at the lack of action. I've never understood the sentiments that uncharted gameplay was bad, since as you stated you have so much freedom to run around that it makes it a lot of fun.

 

[ForsakenLotus]

I'm surprised this article was approved. It's pretty terrible.

But it will get clicks...