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Kotaku: XB1 Slim 2016, More Powerful XB1 Scorpio/VR 2017, iterative boxes from now on

Markoman

Member
The way I see it MS are potentially soft exiting from the console market and progressively consolidating Xbox onto PC, but they were going to give it another shot with Xbox Two. However the people at Sony are smart and blindsided MS by switching to an iterative model. Neo coming out this year would pretty much lock in their dominance. With the 60m+ userbase the Playstation will be the lead platform for the big 3rd party games and Sony can easily get the marketing/DLC exclusive on any 3rd party game they want from here on out. MS first party is a disaster so I don't see any space for them to mount a comeback. Scorpio next year will be too late. The PS2 demolished the Xbox/GC despite both being significantly more powerful. An iterative PS would also have the power advantage at times in addition to the game library/momentum.

Yes, I'm with you. This could be their final effort to directly compete with Sony. Iterative consoles mean higher investments on all sides, so if profits don't rise equally, why should they even bother after all those years of burning cash on a plan that doesn't make sense anymore. There will still be a Xbox of some sorts, but the days of "dis gonna be gud" NPD sales threads will be over. Sony has won the console race but they never took over the living room as MS expected at the beginning of this millenium. Gaming is about content, not about plattforms. The sooner Sony, MS and Ninty realize this, the better for everyone involved. In 2020 every friggin game should be accessable on A machine of your choice.
"Consoles" should simply be degraded to a means to play x&y - they should become what a record-player once was to music. If a consumer is willing to spend 1000$ on a gaming machine, just let him do that, but he shouldn't miss out on any content.
 

OsirisBlack

Banned
Not having anything to go up against Neo this year sounds like a mistake to me.
It would be a huge mistake but who says the Neo is coming out this year?

My prediction (that people will dislike): If the Scorpio is considerably more powerful than PS4k, it will outsell it, despite Sony's momentum. These things are multiplat machines at this stage. .
What is there to dislike, I would be completely and genuinely confused if the Scorpio is not a more powerful machine than the Neo. Pricing and timing is also a huge factor though if Sony has a four or five month head start and a more attractive entry price its going to be an uphill battle. Also MS (Xbox division) has lost a lot of goodwill overseas.

And the winner is AMD?
Yes and the loser is Nintendo. I'm pretty pissed about this one because it seems like both Sony and MS are closing the door to the party right as Nintendo shows up ...... late as usual.

Yeah, just read this. Xbox One Slim in August and Scorpio in late 2017. They also say MS was expecting Neo, but in 2017 and not 2016. That lines up with Gopher's posts here. He indicated that MS was caught off guard.
The first unofficial date I had heard for the Neos release was March of next year but there are mixed messages as of right now.
 

Atomized

Banned
Wat. The reason why the ps4 is not BC with ps3 games is because the ps3 is a over engineered piece of shit (cell processor). PlayStation consoles going forward wont have those problems.

Yeah, odd how quickly people forget, every playstation until 4 has been backwards compatible, the first company to do it even. The first Playstation 3's (60 gig ) Can literally play Playstation's entire library of games before PS4. And the ones after that can still all play ps1 one games natively.

Unfortunately yes due to the poor design decisions of the ps3, the only way to escape them was a clean break thus no backwards compatibility for the ps4. The other argument could be made to include hardware of the ps3 in the ps4, but I think that would be maybe too difficult?
 
It's hard to keep all of these rumors and leaks straight! I just hope that whatever they make, there'll be a good trade-in promotion and it ends up being $200-$250 out of pocket for the half gen systems and a trade.

I still don't get how devs are essentially going to be making games for 2 more systems in the pipeline- the straddling line of holding back because of last gen games sucked... why wouldn't it be the same here?
 

MilkyJoe

Member
The way I see it MS are potentially soft exiting from the console market and progressively consolidating Xbox onto PC, but they were going to give it another shot with Xbox Two. However the people at Sony are smart and blindsided MS by switching to an iterative model. Neo coming out this year would pretty much lock in their dominance. With the 60m+ userbase the Playstation will be the lead platform for the big 3rd party games and Sony can easily get the marketing/DLC exclusive on any 3rd party game they want from here on out. MS first party is a disaster so I don't see any space for them to mount a comeback. Scorpio next year will be too late. The PS2 demolished the Xbox/GC despite both being significantly more powerful. An iterative PS would also have the power advantage at times in addition to the game library/momentum.


OIQQqBF.gif
 

Klocker

Member
I'm thinking that $500 might be the base price especially with a cheaper XB1 Slim model available to play the same games. $400 would be a dream though with that amount of power. I'm still curious about the CPU.

2016:
$299 Xbox One slim

2017:
$249 Xbox One slim
$449 Xbox One Two
 

Markoman

Member
It would be a huge mistake but who says the Neo is coming out this year?

What is there to dislike, I would be completely and genuinely confused if the Scorpio is not a more powerful machine than the Neo. Pricing and timing is also a huge factor though if Sony has a four or five month head start and a more attractive entry price its going to be an uphill battle. Also MS (Xbox division) has lost a lot of goodwill overseas.

Yes and the loser is Nintendo. I'm pretty pissed about this one because it seems like both Sony and MS are closing the door to the party right as Nintendo shows up ...... late as usual.

The first unofficial date I had heard for the Neos release was March of next year but there are mixed messages as of right now.

The moment the whole iterative consoles talk started, I was getting exactly the same impression. When the first leaks about Neo arrived on Gaf (lol, look what I did here)), I was thinking that Sony is really going for the deathblow. It's a risky move for them, but if it succeeds and NX ends up beeing WiiU2 sales- and mindshare-wise, Nintendo will never recover as a plattform-holder imo. Don't get me wrong: MS and Sony still see Nintendo as a force that might be able to catch lightning in the bottle again which might explain why they're pushing this idea so aggressively out the door. Competition may be good, but competition has never been about co-existence. At one point one competitor will go away.

Mark my words: NX will get shitty 3rd party support as a direct consequence of a flooded console hardware market.
 
It was questionable before upgrades were a thing if consoles are cheaper.
Now it's clear they are more expensive than a pc.
If you upgrade to the 4K you spent $800€ in 3 years.
If you spent $800€ for a PC at the PS4 start, based on the leaked PS4K specs, you would have something more powerful than the PS4K 3 years before it launched.


Not everyone bought their ps4 at launch though. The majority bought the ps4 after it had got a price cut and will be true for ps4k too.

And if you add the ~$50€ per year for online and the higher game prices the difference gets ridiculous in favor of pc.

Not if you buy your games second hand and take advantage of trade in / selling to fund for your game purchases. Besides, there are frequent sales on the ps store where you can get some really sweet deals that are pretty competitive with Steam offers.
As for your point about the online tax - it's easily paid for (and then some) by all the games I get on ps plus. I know not everyone is satisfied by the ps plus offering this generation - but for me the many indies (and the few full price games) that have been offered as part of my subscription are games that I would have bought on steam with cash.

edited in my response to the points you raise.
 

RoKKeR

Member
Just woke up.... My my, the floodgates are open! This is sort of what I was expecting /imagining they would do in the short run, and I think it's an interesting strategy. Will be key to see how low they can get the price of the current Xbox One model.
 

heidern

Junior Member
This is all a story with no real basis.

The Polygon sources also say that MS were caught off guard.

~6TB for Scorpio is 50% more than the ~4TB Neo is said to be. PS4 is 50% more than X1 and the games look pretty much the same. So Neo games should look pretty much the same as Scorpio games especially as it'll be the lead platform. Game over if this is the case and if Neo is out this year.
 
If all the first party games are no longer exclusive, which is pretty much the bulk of the console exclusives, is there any reason to get an Xbox console over a PC other than price and the simplicity of it working out of the box? Before, an Xbox made sense regardless because of the games you could only play there, but that seems out the window now. I'm not seeing a reason to buy an Xbox moving forward.
 
The way I see it MS are potentially soft exiting from the console market and progressively consolidating Xbox onto PC, but they were going to give it another shot with Xbox Two. However the people at Sony are smart and blindsided MS by switching to an iterative model. Neo coming out this year would pretty much lock in their dominance. With the 60m+ userbase the Playstation will be the lead platform for the big 3rd party games and Sony can easily get the marketing/DLC exclusive on any 3rd party game they want from here on out. MS first party is a disaster so I don't see any space for them to mount a comeback. Scorpio next year will be too late. The PS2 demolished the Xbox/GC despite both being significantly more powerful. An iterative PS would also have the power advantage at times in addition to the game library/momentum.
I don't think it's a move to exit the console market, quite the opposite actually, it's a move to try take it and never leave the winning position again. Because really, if back and forward compatibility forever, cross buy/play with the win store and your library available everywhere even sticks and tvs it would be a matter of time until leading the market.

As you noticed it's something sony will counter measure with neo, but they will need to have a long term solution as well. From what's been leaked neo is benefiting from being the same as the ps4 architecture wise, so low level code and optimizations are mostly the same and the support is basically enabling higher specs on neo. But to keep going (ps5 and on) they need a platform agnostic development platform, similar to uwp or the one nintendo is building. Thought neo basically buys sony the time to come up with that.
 

Kaako

Felium Defensor
If all the first party games are no longer exclusive, which is pretty much the bulk of the console exclusives, is there any reason to get an Xbox console over a PC other than price and the simplicity of it working out of the box? Before, an Xbox made sense regardless because of the games you could only play there, but that seems out the window now. I'm not seeing a reason to buy an Xbox moving forward.
You raise a very good point. The thing that kept the momentum for the Xbox brand was exclusive IPs and better performing 3rd party games. It's gonna be interesting times ahead...
 

MCD

Junior Member
If all the first party games are no longer exclusive, which is pretty much the bulk of the console exclusives, is there any reason to get an Xbox console over a PC other than price and the simplicity of it working out of the box? Before, an Xbox made sense regardless because of the games you could only play there, but that seems out the window now. I'm not seeing a reason to buy an Xbox moving forward.

What if I don't want a PC? What if I want to rock a Surface Pro for my business and a console for gaming in the house? Why does X app on PC means Xbox is not needed?

I got a Samsung S7 recently and love that almost all MS apps are available. I can return a year later whenever the Surface phone is realized and still rock the same apps. See the picture? Ecosystem has and always be MS real vision.
 
I think they are bringing PC gaming to the mainstream by adapting the Xbox into this Console/PC hybrid.

Interesting strategy, I'm curious to see how they handle it.
 

P90

Member
What if I don't want a PC? What if I want to rock a Surface Pro for my business and a console for gaming in the house? Why does X app on PC means Xbox is not needed?

I got a Samsung S7 recently and love that almost all MS apps are available. I can return a year later whenever the Surface phone is realized and still rock the same apps. See the picture? Ecosystem has and always be MS real vision.

MS is only just now understanding ecosystem in the mobile market. MS is so behind they will probably never recover to respectability vs. Google and Apple in the mobile market.
 

Markoman

Member
I don't think it's a move to exit the console market, quite the opposite actually, it's a move to try take it and never leave the winning position again. Because really, if back and forward compatibility forever, cross buy/play with the win store and your library available everywhere even sticks and tvs it would be a matter of time until leading the market.

As you noticed it's something sony will counter measure with neo, but they will need to have a long term solution as well. From what's been leaked neo is benefiting from being the same as the ps4 architecture wise, so low level code and optimizations are mostly the same and the support is basically enabling higher specs on neo. But to keep going (ps5 and on) they need a platform agnostic development platform, similar to uwp or the one nintendo is building. Thought neo basically buys sony the time to come up with that.

???What are you talking about? You make it sound like MS is ahead of the game but in reality they're playing catch-up. You won't be able to play Halo 6 from an USB-stick. Smaller games? Definitely, but guess what, we already have that. And who cares about Indie games being playable in a MS ecosystem. People have Apple/Android devices for that.

Counter measure what? It looks like Sony will be first doing this AND VR. If anything, MS has to counter meassure Xbox' ww mindshare loss and being late to the VR party. How will they counter meassure Apple devices techically getting stronger and stronger every year?

No my friend, MS is in an odd spot once again. They're playing Germany in WWI, fighting on various battlefields - going for the TV-streaming, console hardcore, mobile and PC crowd at once, facing a too strong opposition on each battleground.
 

Kaako

Felium Defensor
What if I don't want a PC? What if I want to rock a Surface Pro for my business and a console for gaming in the house? Why does X app on PC means Xbox is not needed?

I got a Samsung S7 recently and love that almost all MS apps are available. I can return a year later whenever the Surface phone is realized and still rock the same apps. See the picture? Ecosystem has and always be MS real vision.
It's one thing to have vision for a unified ecosystem. It's another thing to have the ability/know-how to support and maintain a healthy ecosystem. Hell even understanding a healthy ecosystem would be a good start for MS, I feel.
 
What if I don't want a PC? What if I want to rock a Surface Pro for my business and a console for gaming in the house? Why does X app on PC means Xbox is not needed?

I got a Samsung S7 recently and love that almost all MS apps are available. I can return a year later whenever the Surface phone is realized and still rock the same apps. See the picture? Ecosystem has and always be MS real vision.

You seemed to ignore the simplicity factor that I mentioned. There's only two advantages an Xbox console has then. It's potentially cheaper, and it's a simple device that works out of the box. I have a nice small form factor Windows gaming PC sitting in my home theater cabinet. It sits next to my Xbox One. Now if the gaming PC suddenly plays all the exclusives the Xbox One had, what's the compelling reason for me to have both a gaming PC and a Xbox One in my cabinet at that point? It seems like I can remove the Xbox out of the equation.
 
So, with this Xbox news, are people still outraged over PS4.5 or not? Is everything fine for the most part now or is there something else to be upset about?
 

TwiztidElf

Member
So, I already have this expensive, unused box under my TV that has bugger all content on it that I'm interested in.

And Microsoft think that I'm going to more than double down on it as a consumer to play more Halo/Forza ad-nauseam?
And I'm core market....

Goodjob Microsoft. Way to completely mis-read the market. This shit is going to bomb so hard.
 
The way I see it MS are potentially soft exiting from the console market and progressively consolidating Xbox onto PC, but they were going to give it another shot with Xbox Two. However the people at Sony are smart and blindsided MS by switching to an iterative model. Neo coming out this year would pretty much lock in their dominance. With the 60m+ userbase the Playstation will be the lead platform for the big 3rd party games and Sony can easily get the marketing/DLC exclusive on any 3rd party game they want from here on out. MS first party is a disaster so I don't see any space for them to mount a comeback. Scorpio next year will be too late. The PS2 demolished the Xbox/GC despite both being significantly more powerful. An iterative PS would also have the power advantage at times in addition to the game library/momentum.

#prayforplaystation

TkCOkHm.gif
 

gamerMan

Member
6 TF is a really really powerful device. It has to be Vega at this point! We are talking GCN flagship performance!

So I guess that people are going to buy an Xbox next time around. Let the arms race begin. Ha ha mine is bigger and powerful than yours. No, now mine is bigger and more powerful than yours. Consoles are the next iPads. A few years of growth and then like a roller coaster that never drops. Sony and Microsoft are going to run the console industry into the ground. Best get that money while you can though.
 

AlphaDump

Gold Member
i wonder if these consoles are in response to a new competitor entering the market. I keep hearing noise about Amazon every now and then...
 
If theyre inegrating xbox into PC and PC into Xbox and making all their exclusives Xbox and PC, what would be the reason to buy this Xbox One-Two and not build a similar computer?

Will the Xbox One-Two effectively become a PC I can't upgrade that's locked to the Xbox OS and Windows/Xbox store?
 

Trago

Member
If theyre inegrating xbox into PC and PC into Xbox and making all their exclusives Xbox and PC, what would be the reason to buy this Xbox One-Two and not build a similar computer?

Will the Xbox One-Two effectively become a PC I can't upgrade that's locked to the Xbox OS and Windows/Xbox store?

I'm guessing for a lot of people it's console convenience. There's a lot of console gamers who don't give a shit about PC.
 
I'm guessing for a lot of people it's console convenience. There's a lot of console gamers who don't give a shit about PC.

Is this really it now? I've always been on xbox because I really like Xbox Live, Games with Gold, the controller, the exclusives, and mainly because my friends al have xbox. Now it seems like I'm just missing out on GwG. Is that all I'd be missing by 2017 if I went PC instead?
 

Trago

Member
Is this really it now? I've always been on xbox because I really like Xbox Live, Games with Gold, the controller, the exclusives, and mainly because my friends al have xbox. Now it seems like I'm just missing out on GwG. Is that all I'd be missing by 2017 if I went PC instead?

It's one of many factors, sure. Unless a person going into PC can still play with their friends, I don't know why they would make the switch all of a sudden.
 
Is this really it now? I've always been on xbox because I really like Xbox Live, Games with Gold, the controller, the exclusives, and mainly because my friends al have xbox. Now it seems like I'm just missing out on GwG. Is that all I'd be missing by 2017 if I went PC instead?

That's how it's looking to me too. The biggest reason was to get the games that I could only play on that platform and now that aspect is out the window. From my view, it looks like I save money not having to buy an Xbox now since it doesn't net me anything. I'm saying this of course from the perspective of a multiplatform owner who has a gaming PC, Xbox One and PS4. I'm not seeing a reason moving forward to pick up a Microsoft console when a gaming PC and PlayStation console will give me the exact same gaming library.
 

ps3ud0

Member
Way too early to be guessing prices.
I cant make head or tail of the reasoning behind each price Im seeing. What sounds like a R3 390X type GPU doesnt sound cheap.

Its not like the reasoning behind the PS4 (and XO to a lesser extent) pricing being what it was wasnt representative of what power they could get for that price relative to what technology was available at time...

ps3ud0 8)
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
So if I have I right, Microsoft played Sony the same way Sony played Microsoft when they unveiled the ps4 was going to have 8gb of ram instead of 4. I sure hope the ps4k gets a spec boost but it might be a little to late now? Idk

No, because none of this is official on either side.

If anything, it is not unlike how it was pre X1/PS4. Gies and all.
 
If all the first party games are no longer exclusive, which is pretty much the bulk of the console exclusives, is there any reason to get an Xbox console over a PC other than price and the simplicity of it working out of the box? Before, an Xbox made sense regardless because of the games you could only play there, but that seems out the window now. I'm not seeing a reason to buy an Xbox moving forward.
Price perf ratio is usually very good on console, also it goes the other way, Xbox becomes a very cheap pc, specially when MS starts bringing apps and win32 games to the store/c Xbox.
 
I don't buy the fact that MS would release a console a year after the ps4 neo that won't be equal or more to it. I don't think MS is that stupid especially after the backlash. I'd like to be convinced otherwise but I doubt people could.
 
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