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[MasterMongoose]

First of all, GT6 is at 4.71 million now, so it's surpassed FM4. And GT6 was in the weird position where the PS4 had come out a month before it did and there were rumors going around about a possible port which led to people skipping it (including myself)

Furthermore, current gen Forza also has the factors of the Xbox One not being terribly popular outside the US (where a big chunk of the market lies for these games), mix that with there being more competition, and there being minimal improvements with each iteration, consistently getting criticized for still not implementing stuff GT5 had did (which now GT Sport is getting criticized for as well). And you get why Forza sales have dipped greatly.

I have no doubt in my mind that GT Sport is going to sell poorly compared to past GTs, but it isn't going to be because the market isn't there anymore or that's the trend, it'll be because of the cutbacks they have done, the shift in focus, plus there being more competition.

But these games have not meaningfully changed since what? GT3? FM3 with rewinds and helping "casuals?"

Do you really think the market for "Drive an old muscle car, drive a hot hatch, drive a older sports car, drive a newer sports car, drive a supercar, drive a hyper car, drive an F1/Indy/etc" campaign is really the same as its always been? I love these games and have done exactly that for FM3, FM4, FM5, FM6 and GT6 and even then I'm getting burned out. I'd rather just lap Laguna Seca in a single car and chase lap times these days and tune and tune and tune.

I think the market has moved on or it's too expensive for the Polyphony guys to even make that kind of game anymore without either huge microtransactions or something. Forza being every other year has left GT in a place where it feels incredibly antiquated to the average consumer.

 

[farisr]

I like how in this topic 4+ million sales for a game that released on a console after the next-gen already started = the market's moved on.

 

[dubc35]

I like how in this topic 4+ million sales for a game that released on a console after the next-gen already started = the market's moved on.

...and that game didn't have online until after most people stopped playing it.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

If they release a "proper" GT with classic career mode and 1.000+ cars, many would complain about the lack of super-premium cars (or the existence of non-super-premium cars), a boring offline campaign / career mode, and an underwhelming online mode.

PD can't win...

But seriously, for me GTS is a spin-off which focusses on online racing instead of "just" driving an incredible amount of cars. Don't forget, Gran Turismo is supposed to be the ultimate driving simulator, not the ultimate online racing simulator.

I am still dissapointed, because I avoid online gaming as much as I can. Battlefront for example doesn't interest me one bit. Or the multiplayer maps in Battlefield or CoD. Or even GTA Online.

But I'll make an exception for GTS if they introduce a system which effectively deals with all those damn crash kids. Because I have absolutely no doubt that the driving itself will be fun as hell.

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

This i think should have been expected, it is a online focused GT with Championships. The thing that boggles my mind is that they are planning on releasing an online focused game without a beta, its incredible.

 

[farisr]

Honestly from now on, I'm just going to treat this game as a glorified full priced beta for an online mode and pass on it. Hoping that they're basically doing this so they can make some money for a proper GT's production and so that they can launch with a terrific online component in that proper GT game from the getgo. Yeah, that scenario sounds much better in my head.

 

[TylerDurden4321]

The market is in a different place now, with some games chewing on different parts of what used to be GT-territory on the Playstation, but if Doom has shown us one thing this month, it's:

What was fun back then, is still fun now! ...you just have to find out what that fun exactly was, distill it, add to it in meaningful ways and don't look at the market that is sheepishly moving on in the same direction, steered by analysts figuring out why game A sold more than game B, to do more of what game B did in the future.
Part of that fun was starting in a used Toyota Corolla, win small, tune it up a little, win more, buy a better car. It was fun, it still would be fun and I think PD knows that, but they don't have the amount content needed to make that game ready now.
(Not saying they will ever make, just saying, they could not, if they wanted to).

 

[Makki]

I love Gran Turismo games therefore I will buy all "betas" every time at full price regardless of missing content. I want Polyphony to live on and I want to keep playing their games. This will tie me over till the next iteration of the series.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

There will be a proper GT after Sport right ?

 

[AstroNut325]

a lot of people seem disappointed but I'm willing to give them a chance. The old formula was revolutionary in the 90s but is beyond stale in 2016. Time to change things up.

This is my stance as well. I'm still very excited for GT Sport.

The most important thing to me is the racing model. Everything else is secondary.

Edit:

There will be a proper GT after Sport right ?

I'm pretty sure Kaz said there isn't a market for a "Proper GT" anymore. With the sales of GT and Forza, I see the same trend.

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

There will be a proper GT after Sport right ?

Yep

 

[funkystudent]

There will be a proper GT after Sport right ?

In another 3 years maybe....

 

[Hugstable]

sigh as a big GT fan this is just sounding worse and worse to me. Probably just gonna pick it up on the cheap in the future and hope that we get a real GT7 someday (I really just want an experience like 3-4 again ..)

 

[Unknown One]

We'll never have a campaign that surpasses GT3...

 

[enzo_gt]

I anticipate how they will make this seem even less attractive than it already is.

 

[Insane Metal]

GTS shaping up to be a huge letdown.

 

[ViciousDS]

No offline career...... What the hell. More and more this is looking fucking terrible.

 

[Fox Mulder]

They're probably considering a longer-term direction for the franchise. But I don't think you can argue that, looking at the current games market, a racing game where you purchase a second-hand Nissan Micra to race at the weekend cup for credits to purchase parts for your car until you can afford something better, is a really popular style of game?

How can you tell? It takes years for a GT to release, which last came way too late at the end of the ps3.

I love forza with the supercars, f1, and lmp stuff. But the regular production car racing is great too. I hate racing online due to all the shithead trolls, cheaters, and god awful racing. I wish people fun.

 

[AstroNut325]

How can you tell? It takes years for a GT to release, which last came way too late at the end of the ps3.

I love forza with the supercars, f1, and lmp stuff. But the regular production car racing is great too.

What is the overall direction of sales for GT and Forza?

What were the biggest complaints against the previous GT and Forza?

 

[wowbaggerBR]

As a hardcore motorsport enthusiast, I can't accept a GT game without things like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0py_BXvbcc

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

This i think should have been expected, it is a online focused GT with Championships. The thing that boggles my mind is that they are planning on releasing an online focused game without a beta, its incredible.

It really is!

The excuse used is that it would take 3 months out of dev to do and mean missing 2016 (so they didn't plan for it then?). Yet..

They did a unveiling event halfway round the world that no doubt took some planning and time to arrange. They also took a quarter to a third of the staff with them.

If time is so tight for hitting the November launch then why do this? If the 3 months to master is true that only leaves 3 more months to work on the game proper.

I will fully admit I'm bitter that I won't be able to play this unless I buy it. Hopefully I can find a retailer somewhere that has it on a demo pod.

 

[PodcastFips]

There is a career mode so why are people saying there is not? Let's wait for further details. No need to panic.

Do you consider it a career mode when it's basically just a practice mode?

 

[theWB27]

But these games have not meaningfully changed since what? GT3? FM3 with rewinds and helping "casuals?"

Do you really think the market for "Drive an old muscle car, drive a hot hatch, drive a older sports car, drive a newer sports car, drive a supercar, drive a hyper car, drive an F1/Indy/etc" campaign is really the same as its always been? I love these games and have done exactly that for FM3, FM4, FM5, FM6 and GT6 and even then I'm getting burned out. I'd rather just lap Laguna Seca in a single car and chase lap times these days and tune and tune and tune.

I think the market has moved on or it's too expensive for the Polyphony guys to even make that kind of game anymore without either huge microtransactions or something. Forza being every other year has left GT in a place where it feels incredibly antiquated to the average consumer.

You made a weird argument. Yea, these games are drive this car and drive that car.

You can also lap laguna Seca in s single car and chase lap times and tune and tune and tune on top of everything else.

So I don't understand where the burnout is if that's what you really want to do. Forza doesn't stop you. In encourages you actually by telling you who's lap time you beat on the fly. Also with rivals.

 

[PeterLegend]

The real problem is Kaz, I hate to say it but he's a dinosaur living in the modern era.

You could make the argument GT has been stagnant for nearly 10 years.

Until he retires or steps down I don't see these problems being corrected.

 

[darkinstinct]

This keeps lookig more and more like Prologue title.

It is. They just don't use that name anymore. Polyphony already said that GT Sport is not GT7.

 

[DavidDesu]

The real problem is Kaz, I hate to say it but he's a dinosaur living in the modern era.

You could make the argument GT has been stagnant for nearly 10 years.

Until he retires or steps down I don't see these problems being corrected.

Yeah he's like a cool version of Bernie Ecclestone. Living in the past with an iron grip on the franchise and going off on weird tangents doing stuff nobody really wants and pig-headedly ignoring the stuff people do want.

 

[AstroNut325]

The real problem is Kaz, I hate to say it but he's a dinosaur living in the modern era.

You could make the argument GT has been stagnant for nearly 10 years.

Until he retires or steps down I don't see these problems being corrected.

Yeah he's like a cool version of Bernie Ecclestone. Living in the past with an iron grip on the franchise and going off on weird tangents doing stuff nobody really wants and pig-headedly ignoring the stuff people do want.

I've seen this posted before by others and I have to call you folks out on this.

How is he a dinosaur? He's transitioning GT from what it was in the past to something entirely new (at least on consoles). He's being a visionary and embracing the modern e-sports world and yet... He's a dinosaur?

Wtf am I reading? Cognitive dissonance ahoy!

 

[wowbaggerBR]

I've seen this posted before by others and I have to call you folks out on this.

How is he a dinosaur? He's transitioning GT from what it was in the past to something entirely new (at least on consoles). He's being a visionary and embracing the modern e-sports world and yet... He's a dinosaur?

Wtf am I reading? Cognitive dissonance ahoy!

He's transitioning an ageing game franchise to something that nobody asked for, while keeping lots of shortcomings of said game franchise and introducing new ones on a new game that even his most loyal fans don't know for whom it is.

And somehow, he is still treated as a perfectionist genius.

 

[Suzzopher]

I've seen this posted before by others and I have to call you folks out on this.

How is he a dinosaur? He's transitioning GT from what it was in the past to something entirely new (at least on consoles). He's being a visionary and embracing the modern e-sports world and yet... He's a dinosaur?

Wtf am I reading? Cognitive dissonance ahoy!

But fans of the series wanted better AI, realistic damage and new audio to match the quality of the cars.

No career mode means no purchase from me, I barely play online games due to having no time.

Guess I'll have to wait for GT7 in 2020

 

[MikeE21286]

Predict the next thread title.

GT Sport will not feature any cars

5 cars to start. Buy the rest. Premium $2.99 per car and standard $0.99 per car

 

[3rdamention]

Didn't we already have this same thread? I swear I remember all that broken down in the OP already, maybe it was in another GT thread..

 

[mr2xxx]

I don't play online at all so I'm out.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

So all the events listed in the OP are online only?

 

[Maintenance]

Massive disappointment, what were they thinking? They want to be taken seriously but still have shitty sound, shitty crash physics.

I'd rather have GT6 remastered than this.

 

[Chille]

well any online only game goes from purchase to no purchase for me

 

[Jarod McChicken]

So all the events listed in the OP are online only?

Not at all, that's the offline campaign. There is also an arcade mode we know nothing about.

Here is how the official website describes those events.

Beginner’s School (10 events)
From basic skills such as hitting the brakes and how to turn into a corner, fundamentals can be learned from the bottom up, which will prove invaluable for newcomers to driving games.
Mission Challenge (62 events)
As you work your way through short missions, you will automatically pick up fundamental driving skills without even realising it. In the end, you will have a level of skill that will allow you to participate in major race events.
Circuit Experience (35 events)
Through actual experience on a race track, you will step into the true world of high-performance driving. Use the knowledge of track layouts learned in the mission challenges to pick up the basics of how to conquer a race track.
Race Etiquette (10 events)
In online, as well as real races, etiquette on the track is as important as performance. Learn the rules of etiquette and sportsmanship that’s required in all player-vs-player races. Even if you’re not a top driver with lots of confidence in your skills, you will still have plenty of fun because each player will be matched fairly with people of their own level for fair and equal online racing.

The online part (Sport Mode) will be based on two major competitions. The first is the Nations Cup where players around the world represent their home country. The other is the Manufacturer Cup in which players select their favourite auto maker and represent them in the series.

 

[SRTtoZ]

Should have known that this was going to be a lesser GT title being that it was revealed at PGW.

 

[The Maverick]

This and Kingdom Hearts are the strangest franchises in gaming. Just why.

 

[mavericktopgun]

Street Fighter V : Turismo Edition

You mean Gran Turismo: SFV Edition

 

[mavericktopgun]

Next Thread Title:

Gran Turismo Sport: How to kill a franchise

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

GT Short: Hold the Skyline

 

[mrklaw]

If they release a "proper" GT with classic career mode and 1.000+ cars, many would complain about the lack of super-premium cars (or the existence of non-super-premium cars), a boring offline campaign / career mode, and an underwhelming online mode.

PD can't win...

But seriously, for me GTS is a spin-off which focusses on online racing instead of "just" driving an incredible amount of cars. Don't forget, Gran Turismo is supposed to be the ultimate driving simulator, not the ultimate online racing simulator.

I am still dissapointed, because I avoid online gaming as much as I can. Battlefront for example doesn't interest me one bit. Or the multiplayer maps in Battlefield or CoD. Or even GTA Online.

But I'll make an exception for GTS if they introduce a system which effectively deals with all those damn crash kids. Because I have absolutely no doubt that the driving itself will be fun as hell.

Fine, so spit out a quick GT6HD for PS4 launch year, then bring this out for a mid-gen update and then GT7 in another couple of years.

But now we've had 3 years of PS4 before getting GTS, and if it is a spin-off, how long until an actual full game comes out - 5 years? Crazy

 

[Amauri14]

So it looks like the Beta was cancelled because the game itself was the Beta/Prologue for GT7.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

I really can't see a 1,000+ car count again. Kaz has thrown away all the previous premium cars and re-done 137 cars to super premium standard and that took over 3 years.

If the next GT is a 'mainline' GT I can't see there being more than 300 cars including the ones in GT Sport.

 

[NHale]

I've seen this posted before by others and I have to call you folks out on this.

How is he a dinosaur? He's transitioning GT from what it was in the past to something entirely new (at least on consoles). He's being a visionary and embracing the modern e-sports world and yet... He's a dinosaur?

Wtf am I reading? Cognitive dissonance ahoy!

If anything he's not being stagnant enough for most of the people in this thread, considering the big changes in the focus of this title, but at the same time some call him a dinosaur/stagnant. Logic?

Also if the developer manages to make GT Sport half as good as iRacing on the multiplayer front with seasons, events, sense of community, talent based matchmaking, safety ratings, etc., then this will be the most revolutionary step into online racing on consoles ever.

I seriously doubt this will achieve that but if it does I'm going to be there on day 1 and day 750. Right now I value racing in a competitive environment with same minded people and with the same kind of talent a lot more than getting to race 3 laps with a Fiat Punto to get money to unlock the next Pokemon. I'm tired of chasing imaginary carrots by doing non-sensical chores.

 

[AstroNut325]

He's transitioning an ageing game franchise to something that nobody asked for, while keeping lots of shortcomings of said game franchise and introducing new ones on a new game that even his most loyal fans don't know for whom it is.

And somehow, he is still treated as a perfectionist genius.

Just because nobody asked for it doesn't mean it can't be a hit.

And please. In the days of GT5, there was countless whining and complaining about the campaign, lack of consistency in vehicular quality, resolution, framerates, menus, sound, and countless other things that they have addressed. Times and changing, and so is GT. If you don't want to be a part of it, don't buy it.

 

[mrklaw]

I really can't see a 1,000+ car count again. Kaz has thrown away all the previous premium cars and re-done 137 cars to super premium standard and that took over 3 years.

If the next GT is a 'mainline' GT I can't see there being more than 300 cars including the ones in GT Sport.

He is a crazy person. GT6 had over 400 premium cars, they made a point of telling us how over engineered the cars were, so they could be reused in future games. And now apparently they're all in the bin and they spent 3 years doing tears all over again?

 

[Bobs Big Boy]

Temperature on these has been real lukewarm since the last one.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

Just because nobody asked for it doesn't mean it can't be a hit.

Yes, I maybe wrong and GTS ends up being the second coming. But I don't think so. It's short on features, the gameplay demos didn't show anything inspiring and above all, this bet on esports seems to be overly optimistic.

And please. In the days of GT5, there was countless whining and complaining about the campaign, lack of consistency in vehicular quality, resolution, framerates, menus, sound, and countless other things that they have addressed. Times and changing, and so is GT. If you don't want to be a part of it, don't buy it.

Adressed where? In GT6, the frame rate was appalling (and the 12% increase in resolution didn't help it either), the campaign remained mostly the same thing (maybe without endurances) and I don't need to talk about sounds, monthly DLC tracks and the course maker debacle... yes, the UI have been improved on GT6 but that's about it.

Times are changing, indeed. The trending topic is the weakening of the car culture across the board, the motorsport becoming a niche thing and this is reflecting on games: racing sims are becoming more and more racing focused. GT, on the other hand, never tried to be this kind of game and will continue to do so in GTS.

 

[VibratingDonkey]

a lot of people seem disappointed but I'm willing to give them a chance. The old formula was revolutionary in the 90s but is beyond stale in 2016. Time to change things up.

Removing things is not how to change things up. It's just removing things. This newfangled online stuffs could be a great component of a full GT game. And I hope it will be in 2019 or whenever.

He said in the Q+A session he doesn't see a market for that game anymore.

What?
Is there link?
What does that mean?
Hope he changes his mind for GT7.

Honestly from now on, I'm just going to treat this game as a glorified full priced beta for an online mode and pass on it. Hoping that they're basically doing this so they can make some money for a proper GT's production and so that they can launch with a terrific online component in that proper GT game from the getgo. Yeah, that scenario sounds much better in my head.

This is also my wishful thinking.