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So why does League of Legends still have a larger playerbase than Dota 2?
- Thread starter ScOULaris
- Start date
Seductivpancakes
Member
When I use to go to PAX, Riot games along with Ubisoft seemed to have the bigger booths with a lot going on so maybe Riot's marketing team can be added to the reasons.
More Fun To Compute
Member
From my experience of DotA 2 is that's it's about as open and inviting to new players as a swimming pool full of acid. It's surprising that it has so many players as it is.
Yes, that's true. I wonder how much that factors into the total picture in terms of adoption, though. I agree that it's one more aspect for which LoL can be seen as more accessible than Dota, and I guess an argument can be made for the cumulative effect of all of the streamlined/simplified aspects of LoL's design when held up against the more unforgiving nature of Dota 2.
You can definitely go too far with that simplification to where it actually seems to limit mass appeal, however. See: Heroes of the Storm.
SirPinkyNose
Member
Only turn speed and denies applied here. Dota 2 starts to introduce more spell spammy heroes now and casters like Zeus, Invoker, QoP and Tinker can definitely carry the game.
Dota 2 is harder because it has a dozen more extra mechanics than LoL tho.
You just described online gaming.
Once you play a MOBA is really hard to change to another one (replacing the first one), I've been playing lol for more than 6 years with a group of friends and when we try other mobas there are always small things that annoy us since we feel like lol do it "the right way" on Dota2 i hated the characters, the UI (I constantly lost sight of my champion on teamfights), the shops and the character movement (specially since Dota doesnt have servers on my country). I'd say the only exception is Heroes of the storm since it atracted the blizzard fans of the group.
The difference in DOTA is that you will always have a chance to kill someone no matter how far ahead they are.
The way the system is built, it's much easier to come back from games than in LoL.
I agree that it's sad they didn't implement the surrender option already. It makes it so in League you can at least know that a game won't always go past the 20 minute mark.
The #1 reason why I decided to play LoL instead of DOTA 2 was because it was easy to recognize exactly what was happening on the screen. I'm not sure what it was (maybe the art style?) but I found it incredibly hard to spot the important characters/details in DOTA 2. I never had this problem in fast paced games like UMVC3 or arena shooters.
Revengeance
Member
I started with League, and decided to give Dota a fair shot a few years ago. After about 150 hours I went back to League. I found Dota to be slow, clunky and needlessly obtuse. I simply prefer League.
The "value proposition" that people harp on constantly has absolutely nothing to do with it. I find League's monetization to be fair, and don't mind spending money on a game I've put thousands of hours into. It doesn't matter that Dota's champions are free from the get go if I don't like playing the game itself.
The "value proposition" that people harp on constantly has absolutely nothing to do with it. I find League's monetization to be fair, and don't mind spending money on a game I've put thousands of hours into. It doesn't matter that Dota's champions are free from the get go if I don't like playing the game itself.
For me it's a couple of things really. First is the barrier of entry. League is a very complicated game I'm still a bronze scrub after hundreds of games but Dota 2 is a complicated monster of mechanics. Glet
Game length is another point, league can have long games but general most of mine are 20-35 minutes. Dota 2 games and generally much longer.
And last is the art and characters. League characters all have (lol) lore, unique art and most importantly true personality. When I load up Dota characters are boring, no personality and generic names like wind Ranger and lich.
The monetary factor doesn't matter to me as I'm older and can afford it but for certain people all characters for free could sKew to dota 2.
Game length is another point, league can have long games but general most of mine are 20-35 minutes. Dota 2 games and generally much longer.
And last is the art and characters. League characters all have (lol) lore, unique art and most importantly true personality. When I load up Dota characters are boring, no personality and generic names like wind Ranger and lich.
The monetary factor doesn't matter to me as I'm older and can afford it but for certain people all characters for free could sKew to dota 2.
As someone who started to play both, then made a jump into dota I found that Dota is a lot more difficult than LoL, the lack of surrender button in my early games made it really frustrating, also because of the death penalties there were times that you fell as if you have been doing nothing the whole game, also because of the penalties I felt that the other teams usually scalated out of control when you had a terrible start and they just reused to end it fast (the feed on your suffering) finally its not as if the community is far better (less toxic but still shit).
I moved now to Hots and I am happy for it
I felt the total opposite, I had games with terrible start in which one single player from the other team snowballed so hard that he single handled killed everyone in my team, after some team fights we decided to just stay at the fountain and talk shit about how annoying it was while we waited for the other team to destroy the rest of the towers
I moved now to Hots and I am happy for it
I felt the total opposite, I had games with terrible start in which one single player from the other team snowballed so hard that he single handled killed everyone in my team, after some team fights we decided to just stay at the fountain and talk shit about how annoying it was while we waited for the other team to destroy the rest of the towers
Right product at the right time. Things tend to snowball from there.
After Blizzard not taking the world by storm (huehue), I'm also in the boat of being impressed that Valve managed to get that far to begin with and both can coexist on such a level. (even if LoL is still much bigger obviously)
After Blizzard not taking the world by storm (huehue), I'm also in the boat of being impressed that Valve managed to get that far to begin with and both can coexist on such a level. (even if LoL is still much bigger obviously)
SirPinkyNose
Member
Used to be that way, totally incorrect now because of the buffs to base heroes and the introduction of gold rubberband.
More Fun To Compute
Member
I can't remember any other online game where people seriously recommended playing for weeks against bots before playing a real game.
SirPinkyNose
Member
Do not go there mate. I could spend whole day explaining how diverse and unique Dota 2 heroes are comparing to LoL champions.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Isn't HotS the CoD of MOBAs?
Because it's more fun (my opinion) and easier to get into (my opinion that also seems to be widely held).
I had to quit cold turkey some time ago because it ate up all my gaming time and I became so fiercely competitive that it started to not be fun all too often. I'd lose and just be angry. But yea. It's a well made game.
I had to quit cold turkey some time ago because it ate up all my gaming time and I became so fiercely competitive that it started to not be fun all too often. I'd lose and just be angry. But yea. It's a well made game.
High ground is really simple.
Secret shop seems daunting at first, but it is also simple. If the item requires something from secret shop, the piece that builds it will have a red S in the corner. You can either go there yourself and get it, or select the courier, press W, and it will go there.
Laws of high ground and vision:
1. If they are on higher ground than you, and you have no source of vision up there, then your cannot see them unless they attack you.
2. You have a chance of your attacks missing if you are attacking uphill, unless you have a source of true strike.
3. Trees block vision.
4. Roshan pit is always under fog unless someone or something on your team is in it.
4. Flying vision can see everything on all levels of ground.
5. The river is always the lowest ground.
I was finishing up my last year of high school when LoL blew up, and boy did they hit the ground running. It's a testament to their marketing that they've never really had a dip in popularity, they ran with their momentum and kept on going. Meanwhile, if you told people about DOTA, you'd get mostly bemused and confused faces.
I'm still a DOTA man through and through, though.
I'm still a DOTA man through and through, though.
Stone Ocean
Member
Easier to get into, runs on any toaster, it's the game friend XYZ plays, etc.
SirPinkyNose
Member
Only that?
I remember playing games where people telling me that they've done all kind of nasty stuff to my mother and then laugh at my face saying that I enjoy having sexual intercourse with members of difference species.
I would love to have people suggest me to learn to play using bots instead of the ones I've met in online games.
I should have clarified non gameplay unique champions specifically. In my opinion of course.
This is a good summation of what I've gleaned thus far in the thread. I think that about covers the bulk of it.
Horsemama1956
Member
Don't play these types of games any more but I found DOTA2 to have inherent lag in the animations that made it really annoying to play.
Builds are insanely generic as well, there is no reason to deviate from the recommended build where as I had a lot of fun with unique off builds in LoL since the items affect skills.
I found the characters in DOTA2 quite drab as well. They are felt quite generic to me.
Builds are insanely generic as well, there is no reason to deviate from the recommended build where as I had a lot of fun with unique off builds in LoL since the items affect skills.
I found the characters in DOTA2 quite drab as well. They are felt quite generic to me.
Abilidebob
Member
Eh I still think they cater to different userbases, and both are big enough that they aren't really destroying each other.
Now the question is whether a 3rd moba can thrive between LoL and DOTA2. Hell, the Steamspy guy even said, looking at the player statistics, that DOTA 2 players pretty much ONLY play DOTA 2, and I can see that being the same for League. As long as the devs keep updating the games, I hope both can keep going for years and years.
Now the question is whether a 3rd moba can thrive between LoL and DOTA2. Hell, the Steamspy guy even said, looking at the player statistics, that DOTA 2 players pretty much ONLY play DOTA 2, and I can see that being the same for League. As long as the devs keep updating the games, I hope both can keep going for years and years.
Dota 2 is also pretty lopsided outside the US actually.
According to SteamSpy, only 5.85% of its total playerbase is from the US, and I'm not sure that even counts all the Chinese players correctly.
LordRaptor
Member
Still not as simple as LoL:
- No such thing as high ground
- No such thing as secret shop
-duskdoll-
Member
I think the most important thing is that it can run on a toaster, i'm pretty sure like 90% of PCs and laptops can run it.
I feel like there should be a giant asterisk next to this since Valve didn't make the original Dota and, if I remember right, didn't Riot Games include the designer of the original Dota?
More Fun To Compute
Member
Oh well the community is very toxic to new players but the game is also not enjoyable to learn or play either.
I always lost sight of my character in Dota 2, don't really have this problem in any other game so I can't pinpoint what it is. And im not sure if it's a big reason but the caster in Dota 2 tournament sucks terribly. Nothing is explained, most of what they talk about probably fly above peoples head. A friend of mine enjoy watching the LCS and doesn't even play.
I think this, along with reluctance of people already playing to switch games (whether because of "sunk cost" or they still have friends playing), were huge factors.
Also, IIRC they were somewhat pioneers with the business model they have going. Although I was never a fan, it was undeniable how friendly it was to get people in and playing "for free!", and it was certainly easier to get your friends playing if they don't have to buy anything to try it.
I was playing HoN at the time, which basically had a "buy to play" model similar to something like Overwatch has now, buy the game and play every hero as much as you want with new heroes being free as well. I always thought that was a way better value proposition, but then look at how the two games did in the end. I've since swapped to Dota 2, but I always wondered where HoN "went wrong" when stacked up against League (even before Dota 2 was a widespread thing). I guess F2P is just that powerful?
Stone Ocean
Member
One of them, yes.
Sora the Cat
Member
I loved LoL, but then they changed the artstyle to a more darker one wich I hate, I miss the vibrant green so damn much.
The reason I used to play LoL over dota wasn't the easier mechanics tho, it was how clear everything look on screen. When I play dota my eyes don't feel comfortable, I feel as if the map was dirty or something. I get the same feeling when I play shooters like CoD and every texture has this dirty look to it that damages my ability to spot enemies more easily. Idk, maybe it's something with my way of seeing things, rocket league for example feels like a charm to play to me, because of how clean everything looks.
The reason I used to play LoL over dota wasn't the easier mechanics tho, it was how clear everything look on screen. When I play dota my eyes don't feel comfortable, I feel as if the map was dirty or something. I get the same feeling when I play shooters like CoD and every texture has this dirty look to it that damages my ability to spot enemies more easily. Idk, maybe it's something with my way of seeing things, rocket league for example feels like a charm to play to me, because of how clean everything looks.
Holundrian
Unconfirmed Member
I mean I don't know what bracket you play but when I watch my lower ranked friends, people overrate the scoreboard advantage massively. Especially nowadays(and it's already nerfed from a few months ago) the way gold is calculated a snowballing player that gets just a bit too cocky can even out the game in 1 to 2 deaths.
Depending on your hero stuff like 0-16 can be pretty meaningless if you play correctly.
Euls and Icefrog work at Valve.
LordRaptor
Member
Icefrog is generally (huge asterisk and long list of qualifying disclaimers) accepted as the "designer" of the parts of the original DOTA that made it successful, but Guinsoo definitely contributed.
From a personnal experience LoL is easier to get into beacause of 3 reasons :
- the heroes animations and feeling is sharper in LoL
- the visual style (especially particule effects) make LoL more readable than DOTA
- there is a big difference in philosophy in heroes design. In Dota, all heroes are overpowered when compared to LoL, abilities range, less skillshot, CC duration (any DOTA hero would be broken in LoL). It results in DOTA being more macro focused while LoL is more micro, which makes LoL more easy to grasp at first.
- the heroes animations and feeling is sharper in LoL
- the visual style (especially particule effects) make LoL more readable than DOTA
- there is a big difference in philosophy in heroes design. In Dota, all heroes are overpowered when compared to LoL, abilities range, less skillshot, CC duration (any DOTA hero would be broken in LoL). It results in DOTA being more macro focused while LoL is more micro, which makes LoL more easy to grasp at first.
PsychoSoldier
Banned
I played a decent amount of DotA, but every time I went back I couldn't remember what items were in the secret shops and in the regular shop, how to deal with moving the courier around, and I found the movement hard to get used to again versus LoL, where everything was way more straight forward.
This is specific to me, also, but I liked playing with the camera locked and this was way less possible to do in DotA than LoL.
This is specific to me, also, but I liked playing with the camera locked and this was way less possible to do in DotA than LoL.
SirPinkyNose
Member
Dota has a female spider whose sole interest is sucking out your intestine and lay egg inside your cold dead corpse.
LoL has a bikini wearing lady who tranforms into a spider in occasion for some reason.
Dota's heroes has name also. They just use their title because it's a relic back to Warcraft days.
Yes, one of them. Another one is working at Valve so they're both "spiritual sequels".
No. Riot hired an intermediary developer of the original DotA. Valve hired both the creator and the current developer who crafted it into its modern incarnation.
Dr. Buni
Member
I personally think it is more fun than Dota 2, even if the character design is really REALLY poor in comparison (but the newer champs in LoL have really great designs, especially Kindred and Thalya, too bad they don't make up for the huge amount of awful looking champs there are in the game). Twisted Treeline in special is a mode I really enjoy playing regularly (I rarely touch the default mode, after one year of playing different modes in HotS, I find it to be quite meh, plus the matches take far too long). All things considered, I think both games pale in comparison to Heroes of the Storm (in terms of character designs, gameplay, etc), which is easily the least popular games between the three, so I am not sure if popularity matters all that much.