If you're telling the truth, which you have no reason to do since you're neutral and you can just make up whatever town-helping version of your role sounds best, your win condition would never succeed. Mafia would drag this out to waste time. And we're never mislynching town by lynching you.
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Bar MAFIA |OT| There's Gonna Be Shots
- Thread starter Kawl_USC
- Start date
If you're telling the truth, which you have no reason to do since you're neutral and you can just make up whatever town-helping version of your role sounds best, your win condition would never succeed. Mafia would drag this out to waste time. And we're never mislynching town by lynching you.
Sorry I won't get burned again by a neutral
Assuming they are telling the truth, I don't really see the harm in letting CornBurrito live. I don't really see any way they can harm our cause. In fact, if they tell us who they give IDs to as they hand them out and then they meet their win condition, we will know that at least one of those 3 people is scum (though this theory kind of goes out the window if they keep giving them to townies).
It just kind of feels like a waste of a day to go after someone whose role we're almost positive we know.
It just kind of feels like a waste of a day to go after someone whose role we're almost positive we know.
You guys are silly, let cornb live. Best case scenario he has a chance to get a scum player and fulfill his win condition, mild case scenario scum doesn't like that he can clean/catch the alignment of players and decides to waste their kill on him tonight.
Also, it is on cb best interest to be truthful to town, so he can at least prove useful if he gets a scum player.
THAT SAID. Let's not forget we have had similar scum roles that disguised themselves as neutral. We have to think on how the game works according to the roles, and in my mind a forger goes against Kingsley, so if that is the case he is likely scum.
Let him live. IF HE IS NEUTRAL as he says, its in the best interest for scum to kill him and kill him now, since if they let him live he is a risk, a big one.
Also, it is on cb best interest to be truthful to town, so he can at least prove useful if he gets a scum player.
THAT SAID. Let's not forget we have had similar scum roles that disguised themselves as neutral. We have to think on how the game works according to the roles, and in my mind a forger goes against Kingsley, so if that is the case he is likely scum.
Let him live. IF HE IS NEUTRAL as he says, its in the best interest for scum to kill him and kill him now, since if they let him live he is a risk, a big one.
Barrylocke
Member
CornBurrito, is there any reason you feel more sure that Batsnacks and I are both town vs. both mafia? (Assuming that you, or Hyperactive before you, feel this way since that was how you introduced the role to us).
Well let's look at KingKitty's role PM:
Based solely on the fact that KingKitty's win condition was to kill The Forger personally rather than just to ensure that they are eliminated somehow, I'm inclined to believe that The Forger is in fact a genuinely neutral role. In my experience, it's rare to have a neutral role with the power to kill pitted against a scum role. These types of roles generally are neutral v neutral affairs (though this could, of course, be an exception).
CornBurrito
Member
I think snacks might genuinely be mafia to be honest.
Actually, this won't happen. If mafia decides to fuck over my win condition by killing Barry/Snacks, or roleblocking, I'll never be able to win.
This night will literally be my only chance at this point to satisfy my condition, if the check for my condition happens before any deaths.
I actually am a bit shocked how silent it became after you guys decided to lynch me. Town isn't going to win by not scum hunting. Even if you do decide to lynch me you guys should attempt to find scum during the day phase.
The shade oh how it is thrown. Went to bed after the argument kinda reached a conclusion of sorts since it was already today. On a lunch break now and won't have time to do silly things until later.
Barrylocke
Member
Well the obvious info here is that if CornBurrito is to be believed about his role and more, then either me and batsnacks are both town or both mafia.
I can at least tell you all that me and batsnacks have been confiding with each other. We've been on a hot extended date since we started in this mess and have shared info together. In a completely innocent "for the benefit of the rest of the innocents" sort of way of course.
I can at least tell you all that me and batsnacks have been confiding with each other. We've been on a hot extended date since we started in this mess and have shared info together. In a completely innocent "for the benefit of the rest of the innocents" sort of way of course.
Barrylocke
Member
Obviously i object to that.
Why though
Why?
Barrylocke
Member
Because he's Batsnacks is my mason partner and I trust him. I outed the masonry (without consulting Bats, sorry) because it seemed like a hidden channel for us was less useful to me and we're at the stage that we need to start drilling down to the rest of the scum.
Barrylocke
Member
To be certain this also means that you believe Hyper/corns claims if you also believe us to be scum, correct?
It's one possibility. The other is him lying of course. But he gave out two fake IDs and you confirmed it, so he got at least some proof to his role. The effects can be anything and I very much have the suspicion that as soon as three people got the ID's they get thrown out of the bar, making this game way shorter than expected.
In response to Kyan way above:
No vote yesterday? I've explained my plan of actions here. In the second paragraph here I imply my usual doubt of everything that is inherent with a town role. I was nowhere near being convinced on dragonz and wanted the day to be over.
Next Hyper came in and shat on all of us (but especially me) for being unproductive (lol). I was legitimately frustrated and didn't care anymore. Out of a selfish being a dick mood I unvoted. Simple as that.
No vote yesterday? I've explained my plan of actions here. In the second paragraph here I imply my usual doubt of everything that is inherent with a town role. I was nowhere near being convinced on dragonz and wanted the day to be over.
Next Hyper came in and shat on all of us (but especially me) for being unproductive (lol). I was legitimately frustrated and didn't care anymore. Out of a selfish being a dick mood I unvoted. Simple as that.
So you two are Masons and CB happened to fake ID you both. What does this mean, though? CB doesn't know their alignment till he wins (or doesn't win). So we're back to square one, methinks. Even if we lynch CB we do not know for sure if Bat and Barry are both scum or both town.
Barry even alludes to this in his post right before claiming Mason:
Because he KNOWS (as mason or mafia) that Bats is on his side (whatever side that may be) and he's interested in why CB would "know" that as well, seeing as his logic for it is off. 2 IDs given doesn't necessarily mean they were both on the same side. CB doesn't know anything about alignment until he wins or loses.
So what do we get...
If we lynch CB:
1. We kill a potentially threatening neutral
2. We learn a little bit about Bats/Barry but not anything concrete
If we lynch Bats:
1. We learn a lot about Barry
2. We possibly get more info from CB the next day with either his death or a report on his win or loss (giving us a third scum or town confirmation if he agrees on who we pick)
Or we could just go for Hyper or Gorlak. Need to re-read some stuff.
Barry even alludes to this in his post right before claiming Mason:
Because he KNOWS (as mason or mafia) that Bats is on his side (whatever side that may be) and he's interested in why CB would "know" that as well, seeing as his logic for it is off. 2 IDs given doesn't necessarily mean they were both on the same side. CB doesn't know anything about alignment until he wins or loses.
So what do we get...
If we lynch CB:
1. We kill a potentially threatening neutral
2. We learn a little bit about Bats/Barry but not anything concrete
If we lynch Bats:
1. We learn a lot about Barry
2. We possibly get more info from CB the next day with either his death or a report on his win or loss (giving us a third scum or town confirmation if he agrees on who we pick)
Or we could just go for Hyper or Gorlak. Need to re-read some stuff.
Barrylocke
Member
Well just remember to re-read that Hyper and CornBurrito are one and the same.
If me or Barry gets lynched there is only 1 fake ID in play. You will be waiting a minimum of two more phases to let cornbro acheive his win condition, which won't happen because mafia will just kill me/Barry.
Corn is the only sensible lynch he claimed neutral when he was the only one with votes claiming that if he gets JUST ONE MORE DAY he can WIN AND HELP TOWN. Does anyone seriously believe that? We really should not be lynching town power role claims over corn's dubious neutral claim, but I agree the mason stuff could have come out at a better time.
Corn is the only sensible lynch he claimed neutral when he was the only one with votes claiming that if he gets JUST ONE MORE DAY he can WIN AND HELP TOWN. Does anyone seriously believe that? We really should not be lynching town power role claims over corn's dubious neutral claim, but I agree the mason stuff could have come out at a better time.
Yeah, this is a good point. The only reason I can see them claiming is if CB was onto their alignment.
Let's assume for a second they are two townies. CB notifies us he gave IDs to them and will soon do it to a third person the next day. Well, as masons, they really don't have anything to worry about. Because they KNOW they are both town, and we will either also KNOW they are town from a CB death overnight or we kill CB and nothing happens. There is not suspicion directed towards BOTH Barry and Bats there, because both outcomes either reveal they are town for certain, or tell us nothing.
Now let's assume they are both scum. CB notifies us he gave them IDs and will do a third the next day. Well, if CB survives that third person will out the alignment of Barry and Bats. Essentially, if CB wins (which he would in this case, likely, we would know that AT LEAST one of them are scum. Well, the obvious town lynch here is Bats. However, claiming Mason essentially throws shade ONTO the third undetermined person, making him look like scum instead of Bats. It's basically a way to prove them two are town while throwing the third yet-to-be-IDed person under the bus. Of course, issue here is that if we lynched that 3rd person we'd know bats and barry were lying.
Anyway, that was kind of rambly but I think there's a point in there.
Barrylocke
Member
Out of curiosity why is it that the arson theory is the one that you suspect more?
The timing of the mason reveal feels strange. There was no clear reason to do it and I don't see what the gain would be from town pov. Afraid of a final day turn where the table is turned and nothing is predictable?
I wanna clear this up just for certainty. Barry and bats, does your role make it absolutely clear that you both are town and you both know this?
I wanna clear this up just for certainty. Barry and bats, does your role make it absolutely clear that you both are town and you both know this?
Reactions to CB's proposal by my scum suspects:
bats - wants to kill him
Salva - instead of posting nonsense, actually defends CB
Retroid - nothing
Zeemumu - nothing
Bats keeps the vibe, nothing concrete there. Salva bothers to contribute what is really strange and gives me scum vibes. Retroid is MIA as always and Zee thinks the situation is cool but not cool enough to comment. Salva looks the worst.
bats - wants to kill him
Salva - instead of posting nonsense, actually defends CB
Retroid - nothing
Zeemumu - nothing
Bats keeps the vibe, nothing concrete there. Salva bothers to contribute what is really strange and gives me scum vibes. Retroid is MIA as always and Zee thinks the situation is cool but not cool enough to comment. Salva looks the worst.
Barrylocke
Member
No it does not. It merely says that we are on a date.
Barry got excited oh well. We're masons that's how masons work it's as simple as that kyan I don't want to confuse people.
Barrylocke
Member
I'm actually ok with us talking it out more bats, we still have another day, and this was my push.
I love to shitpost, but every single day I made a serious post defending my votes and sharing my thoughts, if you skim through posts you are likely going to miss them.
Vote: Gorlak
What is troubling to me about gorlak is that he constantly switches target to the one who is most likely to be voted out by town at the moment, he is the ultimate bandwaggoner and I don't think its a townie play. He is scum.
Hermano. I share those thoughts.
This is why you are the best, Hermano mio.
Barrylocke
Member
I know its always good fun with people that have their eyes raised at say "me too!", but me too! The thing that actually made pause was this:
I was hoping Gorlak would say why he believes the arson theory more than the actual claim. (And he still can). He's saying that he thinks me and batsnacks were two scums called out, and he also thinks that CornBurrito is likely lying and really wanting to eject multiple players at once.
I think that maybe Gorlak is scum and he wants to pre-agree with a theory that has been said already by someone that the town may turn to kill. (Batsnacks was the main pusher of the arson theory, both here and in our chat). Then when Bats or me flip town, he can go "too bad, maybe now we should look at cornburrito since we have no other leads".
Vote: Gorlak
I was hoping Gorlak would say why he believes the arson theory more than the actual claim. (And he still can). He's saying that he thinks me and batsnacks were two scums called out, and he also thinks that CornBurrito is likely lying and really wanting to eject multiple players at once.
I think that maybe Gorlak is scum and he wants to pre-agree with a theory that has been said already by someone that the town may turn to kill. (Batsnacks was the main pusher of the arson theory, both here and in our chat). Then when Bats or me flip town, he can go "too bad, maybe now we should look at cornburrito since we have no other leads".
Vote: Gorlak
Errr, excuse me.. please?
Day 2 was a glorious TIE festival until I settled with bats, which I reasoned in#1899. This is the only scenario where your argument is valid to some degree, but if you can't see the merit of a constant tie to get reactions from people, I can't help you.
Day 3 I layed out my plan openly in#2111. Yes, I voted Dragonz. There was no need to discuss anything anymore, my unvote was explained above.
Today I was the one to produce any kind of argument against some players and laid my vote very early on Hyper, followed up by a strong case which multiple people agreed to. How the fuck is that a bandwagon?
Salva stop spreading bullshit, I know it's easy to convince nin "I believe whoever posted above me" and barry because I'm suspicious of him. But this is basically a non-existing case against me. Come up with something real and not this wish wash bla bla.
I mean, it's a stretch but it is possible. But you are right, Gorlak has been bandwagony for the entire game. It really does seem like he jumps on anyone he think could have steam.
Right now I'm between a vote for Gorlak, CB and Bats. I've been leaning Gorlak since the beginning of the day (and I still do), so I'll go that way now.
Vote: Gorlak
I'd be interested in what bats thinks of a Gorlak vote at this stage.