Support NeoGAF

[Kilau]

Except my primary console is the PS4, and I played it on the PC. So much for your fanboy theory.

Oh excuse me then, I didn't realize that by purchasing a PS4 one was entitled to shit all over GAF as if it's some sort of Sony loving hive mind.

And, yeah, you're entitled to your opinion, but you'd have to have blinders on to not see why this game gets so much shit. Go back and read threads from when it was announced to be Xbone exclusive, go back and read the initial OT thread, go back and read every thread with Rise and Tomb Raider in the name, there is a clear pattern and just because you claim you aren't part of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

How about you take off your blinders and look in this very thread for people shitting on UC4 even though OP never brought UC4 into the mix. It's almost like people on GAF have their own opinions aren't controlled by a central narrative. People don't like money hat exclusives, take a look at any SFV thread to see that.

This game is no different than any other console exclusive nonsense, where people who can't play it right away try and act like it's not as good as it really is or spend so much time being bitter about not being able to get their hands on it that by the time they can they've talked themselves into disliking it. The game got rave reviews coming out on Xbone and is better by every metric than 2013, but it wasn't on PS4 so it's shit?

This is a big unprovable assumption where you come full circle and accuse anyone that doesn't like the game of having some bias.

 

[Mman235]

Except my primary console is the PS4, and I played it on the PC. So much for your fanboy theory.

And, yeah, you're entitled to your opinion, but you'd have to have blinders on to not see why this game gets so much shit. Go back and read threads from when it was announced to be Xbone exclusive, go back and read the initial OT thread, go back and read every thread with Rise and Tomb Raider in the name, there is a clear pattern and just because you claim you aren't part of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. This game is no different than any other console exclusive nonsense, where people who can't play it right away try and act like it's not as good as it really is or spend so much time being bitter about not being able to get their hands on it that by the time they can they've talked themselves into disliking it. The game got rave reviews coming out on Xbone and is better by every metric than 2013, but it wasn't on PS4 so it's shit?

Yeah it's totally that and not that the XBox gets way less of these kind of games and therefore has a more forgiving audience.

I think Rise is better than the last one in just about every way, but people finding it worse isn't too hard to understand when it doesn't meaningfully build on the last game much at all. Even the biggest flaws are pretty much the same.

 

[Dr_Boris_Goltz]

Nobody in this thread appeared to criticize the game due to its exclusivity. There's plenty of evidence showing those who condemn the game at the very least played it.

 

[Fredrik]

Whether they are option is inconsequential. If you attempt to collect them while following the main story, you will get heavily distracted, undermining an already underwhelming story. And there's a lot of them.

To be fair, it's the same in all games with any type of collecting, as soon as you start hoarding crafting items or going for a 100% playthrough you know you'll be side- and backtracking a lot unless the game is extremely linear. The worst collectaton for me was searching for the bulls eye targets in the geothermal valley, I probably ran around on that map for 3 hours before finally using a guide.

 

[Strangelove77]

Oh Jesus. Don't go down that "it's an exclusive so everyone who can't play it hates it" route. It makes your entire opinion void. You might as well not say anything at all.

If anything, it'll make people come out and talk more shit about the game you're defending. Don't waste time with that. For your sake.

 

[03sho]

Isn't his meant to be coming to PS4 soon?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

As for the collectathon aspect of the game, I feel like it preys upon the perfectionist nature that is inherent in so many gamers. Even during combat you're constantly hitting R3 to bring up "Lara vision" (or whatever) to make sure you're not missing any of the little bits of bullshit scattered around absolutely everywhere. Like with the audio logs, it majorly disrupts the flow of the game. Everything feels disjointed and stuttery.

I strongly agree with this. I spammed Lara vision throughout the entire game and it was annoying.

I still had a good time with the game, but I think it would be have been more enjoyable for me without all of the hidden stuff.

 

[NullPointer]

Seriously,, if you want to enjoy RoTR, turn off survivor vision and the minimap. Don't collect all of the things unless you find enjoyment from ticking checkboxes off of lists.

I don't see how TR2013 is better experience, as its much worse in terms of characters (grading on a curve here), obnoxious QTEs and run sequences, and huge prompts to use your survivor vision all the time.

 

[RedAssedApe]

Isn't his meant to be coming to PS4 soon?

one year exclusive so likely in the fall or sometime after

 

[Rembrandt]

Whether they are option is inconsequential. If you attempt to collect them while following the main story, you will get heavily distracted, undermining an already underwhelming story. And there's a lot of them.

Doesn't even make sense.

 

[Leopard]

A lot of resident evil fans(rightly so) hate the direction that the series went, isn't it the same way for the Tomb Raider series? Why isn't anyone even talking about it?

Tomb Raider 1, 2, 3 were just magnificent with their puzzles and tough challenges during the ps/ps2 era days. I am just shocked why not many people or if anything at all are talking about the good old days.

 

[Sky Chief]

I loved the reboot and bought this launch day. Was bored stiff aftera couple hours and haven't picked it up since.

 

[ps3ud0]

A lot of resident evil fans(rightly so) hate the direction that the series went, isn't it the same way for the Tomb Raider series? Why isn't anyone even talking about it?

Tomb Raider 1, 2, 3 were just magnificent with their puzzles and tough challenges during the ps/ps2 era days. I am just shocked why not many people or if anything at all are talking about the good old days.

We gave up

TBH tiring to see the main points of why people enjoy the reboot and RotTR were the things that the old games based their whole gameplay around. Crystal Dynamics just arent good enough developers to do TR justice...

ps3ud0 8)

 

[Rembrandt]

A lot of resident evil fans(rightly so) hate the direction that the series went, isn't it the same way for the Tomb Raider series? Why isn't anyone even talking about it?

Tomb Raider 1, 2, 3 were just magnificent with their puzzles and tough challenges during the ps/ps2 era days. I am just shocked why not many people or if anything at all are talking about the good old days.

They complain in literally every TR thread.

 

[reKon]

Uncharted combat fucking sucks and Tomb Raider isn't all that much better.

U4 was a playable story, and was amazing for it.

Rise of the Tomb Raider is like a what's wrong with modern gaming showcase.

Combat wise UC4 is God-Tier for combat gameplay. What more do you want here? The only thing that they really can improve on is AI (which always goes for every game) and adding more destructive environments.

I think people are still under the belief that not enough combat gameplay = the game's combat is not good.

I enjoyed TR 2013 and though the combat gameplay was better than Uncharted 1's. Uncharted 4 blows both of these away in regarding and it's not even fucking close.

In movement, gunplay, melee, enemy AI, level design, destructible environment, sound design, animations, stealth - EVERY category you can think of that enhances the combat experience.

 

[scitek]

I loved 2013. Paced very well, the linearity of the game was a massive strength for it as well.

Then it went open world. I just couldn't get engaged for some reason. I stopped playing it when I reached the jungle like open area. Just wasn't feeling it anymore.

Sort of reminds of me of Castlevania LoS 1 and 2. The first is one of the best action/adventure games of all time imo. Then they went open world with it and jacked it up.

In no way can the new Tomb Raider games even remotely be considered open-world.

 

[NullPointer]

In no way can the new Tomb Raider games even remotely be considered open-world.

This.

TR2013 was hub areas strung together by linear story pathways. Same in RoTR except the hubs are larger and hold side missions of their own.

 

[Grisby]

Can't say I agree OP. I really liked the game. The survival DLC is a lot of fun too.

Outside of combat the game is also dead silent. I think they forgot to turn on/up the ambient noise. You'll hear the occasional tribal drum track, but for the most part it's just a slight wind sound, Lara's footsteps, and nothing else.

See, I liked this. There's a strong feeling of isolation in ROTR that I didn't feel in something like UC4, which had a lot of banter.

Was the story worse than the previous game?
I consider TR2013 to have probably the worst videogame story of the past decade. It is some awful shit, and I've played Heavy Rain and Beyond Two Souls.

Honestly, all TR2013 needed was a decent story and meaningful upgrades. The gameplay was good, the graphics were good, I liked the island well enough and Lara was alright.

Story is a lot better this time around. TR2013 was pretty lackluster with Lara and friends, but I felt like ROTR was a bigger improvement.

 

[LoveCake]

I enjoyed the game, the story was good, it is only worth one play through imo however i thought it was better than Uncharted 4.

 

[cireza]

Loved the game, and loved the first.

OP should try to play the game how he wants to play, not how he feels forced to (for whatever reason).

Game is too easy ? Play only with the pistol. This is a what I did for both games in my first runs.

Too many audio logs ? Don't listen to them. They are simply here to add some background.

Too many things to pick up ? Pushing R3 all the time to check the highlighted things ? Who is forcing you into doing this ? Is someone pushing the button in your place ? Why do you want to pick up everything ? Just forget about those...

Both Tomb Raider games are not open-worlds, that's why level-design is actually interesting and the regions fun to navigate.

 

[Dr_Boris_Goltz]

See, I liked this. There's a strong feeling of isolation in ROTR that I didn't feel in something like UC4, which had a lot of banter..

I definitely see where you're coming from. I love the silence of say, the Souls series, but I feel the silent nature of Rise feels somewhat unnatural. I think there should be slightly more and slightly louder ambience.

 

[reKon]

Is this TR like TR (2013) where the bow was THE weapon to use?

I swear I maxed that shit out and that's the only thing I needed lol.

 

[RedSwirl]

I'm just gonna quote what I said in the last thread about reboot Tomb Raider:

I totally agree with the OP. TR2013 is very playable, which I think is what drove me to finish it 100%, but it's also quite forgettable, pretty much copying every popular feature in AAA games today. The crafting, XP, and bonfires felt completely unnecessary to me. The open world was a huge missed opportunity if you ask me. Instead of being a Metroidvania attempt that turned into a Ubisoft open-world game, it could have been more like a Zelda clone or something, actually focused on exploration. Actually, Mega Man Legends 1 is probably the ideal template for modern TR to follow.

After thinking about it for three years there are two things I really dislike about TR2013:

1. Adventure and puzzle elements are almost completely gone. I enjoyed Tomb Raider Legend, Anniversary, and Underworld for their puzzles and platforming. Tomb Raider to me always felt like an adventure game in search of good action combat. Modern Tomb Raider is just another typical action game with the occasional puzzle.
2. I don't like the whole "survivor" angle. Mechanically it isn't even a survival game for starters. More importantly though it's just too gritty in my opinion. Modern TR and Lara take themselves too seriously. Uncharted is better written and Nathan Drake is a much more likeable character, partly because both have degrees of levity to them. Lara is serious and covered in dirt and blood all the time. I understand thematically TR needed a reboot, but I prefer old Lara's personality.

I decided to pass on Rise of the Tomb Raider. I just watched a longplay because the graphics where the most interesting aspect of the game.

 

[Zeuanimals]

I don't get the headshot complaint at all. Are you pissed because bullets hit where the crosshairs say they will?

Why?

"The controls are too accurate" is the weirdest complaint ever.

You kind of missed the part where enemies just stick their heads out like static targets.

 

[BigBoss007]

It's a cinematic linear shooter, like Uncharted & Co. You like these or you don't...

I like Uncharted and don't like Tomb Raider... So, what's the problem?

 

[sammyCYBORG]

It's the same game LOL. Damn hipsters these days.

What the hell are you on about?

 

[pretty done]

Is this TR like TR (2013) where the bow was THE weapon to use?

I swear I maxed that shit out and that's the only thing I needed lol.

Yea, the bow is still the only "gun" in the game that doesn't have shitty gunplay.

What the hell are you on about?

Same thing this dude is saying

don't get how people would like the first and not the second. is it because its more of the same?

to each his own i guess...

They're the same game. If you like TR2013, you like Rise.

 

[Mman235]

A lot of resident evil fans(rightly so) hate the direction that the series went, isn't it the same way for the Tomb Raider series? Why isn't anyone even talking about it?

Tomb Raider 1, 2, 3 were just magnificent with their puzzles and tough challenges during the ps/ps2 era days. I am just shocked why not many people or if anything at all are talking about the good old days.

They do all the time? It just doesn't come up much in threads specifically about the reboot like this one because it's not really relevant.

Also, the circumstances are different because a lot of the people who worked on the original RE games are still at Capcom or in the industry, whereas Core are gone, and, at this point, many fans of the originals have accepted that Crystal aren't going to take the series in that direction and are waiting for someone else to come up with a successor to them.

Is this TR like TR (2013) where the bow was THE weapon to use?

I swear I maxed that shit out and that's the only thing I needed lol.

It's even more ridiculous in this one with the Star Fox lock on headshot abilities.

 

[SliChillax]

I thought it was mediocre. Never felt like replaying it again. I really liked the 2013 TB game though

 

[NullPointer]

They're the same game. If you like TR2013, you like Rise.

Not at all.

In RoTR QTEs are rare, stealth is a viable option, puzzles are more complex and there's more of them, environments are much larger and more involved with more avenues for exploration, and the tone isn't Team-Scooby-meets-a-horror-movie like TR2013.

The two games share most of the same ingredients but the balance of those elements is entirely different.

 

[reKon]

Not at all.

In RoTR QTEs are rare, stealth is a viable option, puzzles are more complex and there's more of them, environments are much larger and more involved with more avenues for exploration, and the tone isn't Team-Scooby-meets-a-horror-movie like TR2013.

The two games share most of the same ingredients but the balance of those elements is entirely different.

Good to know. Will pick up in a future steam sale like I did with TR (2013). I prefer TPS campaigns to FPS.

 

[pretty done]

Not at all.

In RoTR QTEs are rare, stealth is a viable option, puzzles are more complex and there's more of them, environments are much larger and more involved with more avenues for exploration, and the tone isn't Team-Scooby-meets-a-horror-movie like TR2013.

The two games share most of the same ingredients but the balance of those elements is entirely different.

I'm not in agreement on any point except that the environments are much bigger and more varied in Rise. There's a lot of talk on the tombs but I was so let down by them, there was only two good puzzles in total, out of how many?

Rise is definitely a better game, but it's just that, an improved version of TR2013. I have no idea how one could like one but not the other.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Really weird lighting in that game. I couldn't see anything half the time.

 

[NullPointer]

I'm not in agreement on any point except that the environments are much bigger and more varied in Rise.

You don't have to agree with me pointing out that there are far fewer QTEs, that stealth is now more fleshed out, including a few areas where you can ghost past enemies if that's your thing, or that there are more puzzles and more complex puzzles in RoTR, but those aren't opinions, they're facts. These are the main gameplay improvements from TR2013 to RoTR and why I enjoyed the game a lot more than the last one.

Neither is a solid Tomb Raider game imho, but for what they are Rise is a pretty good time.

 

[JMY86]

I would say the OP is missing a great many things as Rise of the Tomb Raider is a fantastic game IMO.

 

[Harlequin]

A lot of resident evil fans(rightly so) hate the direction that the series went, isn't it the same way for the Tomb Raider series? Why isn't anyone even talking about it?

Tomb Raider 1, 2, 3 were just magnificent with their puzzles and tough challenges during the ps/ps2 era days. I am just shocked why not many people or if anything at all are talking about the good old days.

They are. Look at TombRaiderForums. The majority of people there prefer Core's games and we've been complaining about Crystal's games for years.

 

[family_guy]

I enjoyed it. Liked alot of the optional tombs. I feel like if you just stick to the main story, then you may not get as much out of it. It's a beautiful game worth exploring.

 

[Shin-chan]

No dual pistols is maybe the biggest crime the game committed. And it committed many.

If they weren't going to make a real Tomb Raider game they should have just gone full action and give you the pistols. That would have been far more interesting than the scattershot AAA biulet point shite that we actually got.

 

[maxiell]

It really could have been a substantial DLC for the first game. The story was laughable. Some of the environments were okay, others felt like uninspired retreads. It didn't run well on my Xbox One at all and that definitely hurt the experience. I'd say the first game was better and not coincidentally probably cost tons more to make.

 

[Infinite Xero]

Combat wise UC4 is God-Tier for combat gameplay. What more do you want here? The only thing that they really can improve on is AI (which always goes for every game) and adding more destructive environments.

I think people are still under the belief that not enough combat gameplay = the game's combat is not good.

I enjoyed TR 2013 and though the combat gameplay was better than Uncharted 1's. Uncharted 4 blows both of these away in regarding and it's not even fucking close.

In movement, gunplay, melee, enemy AI, level design, destructible environment, sound design, animations, stealth - EVERY category you can think of that enhances the combat experience.

The weapons in UC4 (like previous UC games) are boring though. There is nothing fun about using any of the weapons. None of them stand out from each other than obvious class differences (shotgun, automatic, handgun). That's the main reason why combat in the UC games is arguably the worst aspect of the game (even worse than platforming). Meanwhile, RoTR has the bow which feels so good to use. Additionally, the weapon upgrades in the game makes them standout and feel a lot more personal than the generic weapons in UC4.

 

[Harlequin]

The weapons in UC4 (like previous UC games) are boring though. There is nothing fun about using any of the weapons. None of them stand out from each other than obvious class differences (shotgun, automatic, handgun). That's the main reason why combat in the UC games is arguably the worst aspect of the game (even worse than platforming). Meanwhile, RoTR has the bow which feels so good to use. Additionally, the weapon upgrades in the game makes them standout and feel a lot more personal than the generic weapons in UC4.

The upgrades (both skill and weapon upgreads) feel so gimmicky, forced and tacked-on, though. I don't think it adds anything to the experience, it just forces you to sit through a couple of menu screens that pull you out of the experience, makes you go on stupid collectathons to get the necessary resources, not to mention the fact that Lara does not have the tools or skills to make many of the upgrades available (which makes the whole "Lara is a survivor out in the wild and sits down at camp fires to improve her gear"-narrative they're trying to turn it into seem quite ridiculous). And last but not least, Tomb Raider should not be about combat in the first place. It's bad enough that they keep shoving combat encounters into our faces every chance they get, they don't need to assault us with stupid weapon and ammunition upgrades, as well.

They should get rid of the whole resource and XP system IMO.

 

[reKon]

The weapons in UC4 (like previous UC games) are boring though. There is nothing fun about using any of the weapons. None of them stand out from each other than obvious class differences (shotgun, automatic, handgun). That's the main reason why combat in the UC games is arguably the worst aspect of the game (even worse than platforming). Meanwhile, RoTR has the bow which feels so good to use. Additionally, the weapon upgrades in the game makes them standout and feel a lot more personal than the generic weapons in UC4.

Have you actually played UC4?

This has the best gunplay in the series by far and more rifles than before. The rifles especially this time are more distinct than ever.

Are you going to tell me that the HS39 behaves similar to the AK 47? Or that the FAL is very similar to XCR...?

You HAVE to use adjust your use during gameplay and use the weapons properly, otherwise you will suck they all have various amounts of recoil and power that you have to control for. This even extends to some of the pistols.

Weapons aren't fun to use? If it's not fun in Uncharted 4, then it must not be fun in most other TP (especially if they don't have a weapon "upgrade" system") ...The shooting feels precise when you're good and you're able to pull off heads shot. The hit detection is on point (you shoot a leg and they will react to that) and power weapons are amazing. Well place dynamnite, grenades, and power weapons send enemies flying back. Have you tried playing the game using the various filters? You really appreciate how much detail went into the particle effects and animation (slow mo + unlimited ammo).

 

[Infinite Xero]

The upgrades (both skill and weapon upgreads) feel so gimmicky, forced and tacked-on, though. I don't think it adds anything to the experience, it just forces you to sit through a couple of menu screens that pull you out of the experience, makes you go on stupid collectathons to get the necessary resources, not to mention the fact that Lara does not have the tools or skills to make many of the upgrades available (which makes the whole "Lara is a survivor out in the wild and sits down at camp fires to improve her gear"-narrative they're trying to turn it into seem quite ridiculous). And last but not least, Tomb Raider should not be about combat in the first place. It's bad enough that they keep shoving combat encounters into our faces every chance they get, they don't need to assault us with stupid weapon and ammunition upgrades, as well.

They should get rid of the whole resource and XP system IMO.

How are the weapon upgrades forced? Unless it's a story-required upgrade, you get to choose what, when, and if you even want to upgrade your weapons. You can go to a campfire, auto-save, listen to monologue, and leave if you want. You don't have to upgrade anything. Same with going about getting resources or any other collectibles.

Have you actually played UC4?

This has the best gunplay in the series by far and more rifles than before. The rifles especially this time are more distinct than ever.

Are you going to tell me that the HS39 behaves similar to the AK 47? Or that the FAL is very similar to XCR...?

You HAVE to use adjust your use during gameplay and use the weapons properly, otherwise you will suck they all have various amounts of recoil and power that you have to control for. This even extends to some of the pistols.

Weapons aren't fun to use? If it's not fun in Uncharted 4, then it must not be fun in most other TP (especially if they don't have a weapon "upgrade" system") ...The shooting feels precise when you're good and you're able to pull off heads shot. The hit detection is on point (you shoot a leg and they will react to that) and power weapons are amazing. Well place dynamnite, grenades, and power weapons send enemies flying back. Have you tried playing the game using the various filters? You really appreciate how much detail went into the particle effects and animation (slow mo + unlimited ammo).

I didn't notice much difference in the weapons in UC4 compared to previous games. Same type of weapons, some shoot in short bursts, some in quicker burst, each having varying levels of recoil and reload time. Dynamites and grenades are basically the same and while the hit detection is good, none of this matters imo as the enemies in UC are bullet sponges so you're aiming for the head anyways.

Perhaps I should note that I usually don't play shooting games because I'm generally bored by the gameplay and the main reason why Tomb Raider's combat standouts to me is because of the bow.

 

[reKon]

How are the weapon upgrades forced? Unless it's a story-required upgrade, you get to choose what, when, and if you even want to upgrade your weapons. You can go to a campfire, auto-save, and leave if you want. You don't have to upgrade anything. Same with going about getting resources for upgrades.



I didn't notice much difference in the weapons in UC4 compared to previous games. Same type of weapons, some shoot in short bursts, some in quicker burst, each having varying levels of recoil and reload time. Dynamites and grenades are basically the same and while the hit detection is good, none of this matters imo as the enemies in UC are bullet sponges so you're aiming for the head anyways.

Perhaps I should note that I usually don't play shooting games because I'm generally bored by the gameplay and the main reason why Tomb Raider's combat standouts to me is because of the bow.

You should try to melee more, it's fun.

 

[Alienfan]

A lot of resident evil fans(rightly so) hate the direction that the series went, isn't it the same way for the Tomb Raider series? Why isn't anyone even talking about it?

Tomb Raider 1, 2, 3 were just magnificent with their puzzles and tough challenges during the ps/ps2 era days. I am just shocked why not many people or if anything at all are talking about the good old days.

Because go back and play those games and you'll find the game controls like ass, and lara is one of the most paper thin and ridiculously sexualised characters of all time. Those games haven't aged well at all, a reboot made sense to most that have revisited those old games recently. What a lot of people have been critiquing though is the lack of puzzles, which we saw kind of addressed in the sequel but still not maybe as many as some fans want.

 

[TheLaughingStock]

Lol
This joker.

Agree. TR 2013 was a total snoozefest full of cringe-worthy dialogue from the little I played. Sooner games like it fade away the better. Leave the cinematics to ND or step your game up please.

 

[DC1]

That's because Uncharted 4 is not a 9/10 game. Imo the press has lost touch with the audience/ the gamers. Those scores are ridiculous.

Not sure about your assessment. Uncharted 4 has given me quite possibly the most unanticipated satisfaction outside of a Souls game.

UC4 = unquestionably superb writing, acting and gameplay.

 

[HardRojo]

I'm conflicted about whether I should bother with RotTR or not. TR 2013 is among one of the worst games I've ever played, I've elaborated on my reasons plenty of times, so I was expecting RotTR to address the issues I had with the first game, but I've read so many different opinions about it that I don't know what to expect, some people love it and say it's better than TR 2013 and others say it is actually worse. I might borrow it when it comes out on PS4 and form an opinion then, hopefully CD has actually fixed some of the stuff I hated from the first game.

 

[The_Kid]

Is the story and better in this game? I remember in the last one I got to the part where that guy sacrifices himself to save Lara and I'm just like "Dude who the fuck are you and why is this supposed to be meaningful?"

I have a lot of gripes with 2013 TR but the story is arguably one of the big ones. If that's fixed I might give it a rental.

 

[Xaero Gravity]

It's NeoGAF, I wouldn't pay much attention to what gets said around here. This forum loves to hype up a game and then shit on it later like it's the worst thing.

Keep an eye on Uncharted 4. That game will go from loved to hated by the end of the year.

Personally I loved Tomb Raider 2013 and Rise of the Tomb Raider. I don't think you can complain about those two too much without throwing some of your favourite AAA titles under the bus in the process.

Sometimes this place makes me feel like I have the worst taste, and then I remember I don't give a shit.