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Shigeru Miyamoto thinks Star Fox is the most underrated Wii U game
- Thread starter Spring Drive
- Start date
goldenpp72
Member
I agree, while not a perfect game and certainly not the exact follow up I hoped for, it's a fun and interesting game. I can definitely imagine the wonder of feeling like you're in the cock pit as a kid being stronger too. Unfortunately, a lot of companies seem to lose track of the fact that some series are simply not popular with kids. The people who grew up with Star Fox are probably the only real audience the series has now, and adults fear change, so it would have likely been better to attach a new IP to this or do a more traditional follow up.
Still, once I wrapped my head around it I had a great time with it for about the 15 hours it took to get all the medals.
Still, once I wrapped my head around it I had a great time with it for about the 15 hours it took to get all the medals.
Davey Cakes
Member
Playing sides like this is silly.
Yeah, there are sides. Because there's definitely a large chunk of players who think Wonderful 101 is a mediocre game that has garbage Gamepad controls but who also think that Star Fox has immersive and enjoyable controls.
brandonh83
Banned
It's not so much of it being an extension but rather that SFZ shares too much in common with SF64. You cite the first four Mega Man games, but while the gameplay is largely the same, as well as the direction of the level designs but apart from the actual gameplay everything is different enough between the levels, bosses, music, etc. For example Mega Man 3 doesn't really feel like Mega Man 2. Same for 1 and 4. SFZ lifts way too much directly from SF64 to feel terribly original. That was the idea, that they'd practically remake SF64 and hope the controls were unique enough to make people feel that they're playing something different.
That's why I said that apart from the controls, the game itself feels lazy from a design and creativity standpoint, and to be honest a lot of the scenarios designed around the new controls were incredibly basic.
Spring Drive
Banned
How come a studio as respected as Nintendo can be oblivious to the actual reception of their game?
Barrel Cannon
Member
I wholeheartedly agree with Miyamoto. Especially after having younger cousins and neices/nephews play it without any pre-conceived notions. They did love it and SF64 made less sense to them.
Duggie_Brown
Member
I actually wonder if anyone talks back to Miyamoto if they believe his opinion to be wrong? For some reason I just can't imagine anyone does.
Now then, in terms of Star Fox, yes it has it's issues but it's not a shit game. I don't personally believe it's underrated after completing it twice and deserved some of the reviews it got. Some reviews were overly harsh on it for sure, but overall the game was merely ok with some cool moments.
In regards to Bill's comments. Pikmin 3 wasn't underrated I feel as it got good review scores, but I agree that Bingo Battle was criminally overlooked and is indeed an exceptional multiplayer game. Perhaps it would have gotten more attention if it was online as well, who knows.
Now then, in terms of Star Fox, yes it has it's issues but it's not a shit game. I don't personally believe it's underrated after completing it twice and deserved some of the reviews it got. Some reviews were overly harsh on it for sure, but overall the game was merely ok with some cool moments.
In regards to Bill's comments. Pikmin 3 wasn't underrated I feel as it got good review scores, but I agree that Bingo Battle was criminally overlooked and is indeed an exceptional multiplayer game. Perhaps it would have gotten more attention if it was online as well, who knows.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Let me start by saying I love Miyamoto.
Let me finish by saying that those unnecessary motion controls that were needlessly shoehorned into StarFox Zero absolutely dampen the experience. I would argue that they do the opposite of what Nintendo wants--take a control scheme that is familiar and make it inaccessible to the public.
Let me finish by saying that those unnecessary motion controls that were needlessly shoehorned into StarFox Zero absolutely dampen the experience. I would argue that they do the opposite of what Nintendo wants--take a control scheme that is familiar and make it inaccessible to the public.
brandonh83
Banned
While I'm not sure I'm on board with everything he's saying, people sure are putting a lot of words into his mouth.
Maybe you should read the posts in this thread....well or dont.
brandonh83
Banned
I don't know, in my experience lately I've seen a lot of negativity toward the guy. I'd say over the past 3-4 years even, if not longer.
DownGrader
Member
Then why did I genuinely like them? Am I shit?
(Some people need to vent off a little before expressing their opinion. Why hyperbolize? Why does everything need to be either "shit sux" or "GOTY day 1"?)
Stilton Disco
Member
If it was an in any way better, or even half way decent way to control the gamme, it wouldn't have been as torn into by critics and fans alike.
The very first time I played Wii Sports and Super Mario Galaxy, the controls were so good, it instantly blew away all my preconceptions and sold me on the Wiimotes as a legitimate control method for games.
SF0 was just shite to play, and incredibly dully designed, that's all there is to it.
The very first time I played Wii Sports and Super Mario Galaxy, the controls were so good, it instantly blew away all my preconceptions and sold me on the Wiimotes as a legitimate control method for games.
SF0 was just shite to play, and incredibly dully designed, that's all there is to it.
It's almost like you are not reading this thread or any other Miyamoto thread~
Nah, man. People were soured on SF0, and this is a pretty weak excuse. Not even the Nintendo Defense Force can justify this with a good conscience.
Besides, as everyone else has said, the Wii U had The Wonderful 101, Rainbow Curse, Pikmin 3, and the superior version of Tekken Tag Tournament 2. Star Fox Zero most certainly isn't the system's most underrated game.
kingkaiser
Member
Of all the first-party games on WiiU it's the one I enjoyed the most. It made terrific use of the pad and touch control, had unique and super cute visuals and was overall charming and felt just fresh.
Starfox on the other, I wouldn't even touch it with a ten-foot pole.
A Dead Diehard
Member
How can that be true when Wonderful 101 exists?
Cheeseman Battitude
Member
That and it's their latest game they want people to buy.
richman555
Member
I think Nintendo has to do a better job of getting their IPs out there into the mainstream. Today's generation of kids know Mario pretty well, but beyond that they don't know much. Maybe in Japan they are better known. Most people buying Star Fox are 40 something year old nostalgia buyers. Generations are beginning to pass you by Nintendo. Just ask kids today about Sonic, and see how well they know this beloved hedgehog.
I like Kid Icarus Uprising's controls, and I know they're shit. They just are.
I can handle Star Fox's controls after playing for a couple of hours, but it's simply undeniable that they're not ideal. Nintendo games are known for being 'pick-up and play', and Star Fox is the opposite of that.
oh boy, prepare...
I got my 70 medals, and play at least 4 times a week in my bed to try and beat my scores
NO you don´t need 2 screens to play this game.
Inflamatory thread title to shit on the game. Yeah.
MissCauthon
Member
Most gamerswant to play pretty games on powerfull consoles. Sorry Mr M but your game is not very purdy and your console should have released along with the ps3 and the 360, not against consoles a generation ahead. It's like they are really trying to fail.
To the incoming bashing that is headed my way well this is my opinion we all have one lol.
Meow
To the incoming bashing that is headed my way well this is my opinion
we all have one lol.Meow
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
Nah, that'd be TW101.
DownGrader
Member
And it made quite the opposite effect on me since I, as it turned out, was really interested in Nintendo's take on complex, nearly sim-like control schemes.
brandonh83
Banned
My younger nieces and nephews really like Knack. And I can totally understand why they do. Same "pre-conceived" argument applies in that case too. But that doesn't make Knack or Star Fox Zero good games. They don't exist in vacuum.
That's probably the best way to put it. Of course the game is FUN in a total vacuum, but to be successful a game has to be MORE fun than other things you might choose to do.
Theanine3D
Member
It sounds like he still doesn't get why people didn't like it. Which doesn't bode well for the next game.
I hope more of the younger developers at Nintendo get control over the series, might be the only way to save it at this point. Or hell, just get Aonuma to take over. Even he was willing to admit that splitting the player's focus between the TV and the GamePad is too jarring.
I hope more of the younger developers at Nintendo get control over the series, might be the only way to save it at this point. Or hell, just get Aonuma to take over. Even he was willing to admit that splitting the player's focus between the TV and the GamePad is too jarring.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
The door swings both ways. Starfox received major backlash for "motion controls and gimmicks", so anything Miyamoto says while also mentioning Starfox will get called nonsense, regardless of its actual merit. Because people are also really fond of this modern narrative of Miyamoto as a stupid old man, who ruins games and knows nothing about sophisticated modern gaming.
Aside from Starfox - which is a divisive game with issues - I do agree with the general sentiment that a lot of people are playing games with less of an open mind. We're in a phase of "hurried 20 - 30 year olds with no time" that commonly say they only want streamlined, one-and-done packages that are mostly entertainment via content tourism.
Also, expectations can taint game experiences, because people tend to believe their first response to something is a decisive, permanent assessment, rather than a passing, subjective feeling. Pikmin is actually a great example. It's a series that a lot of people couldn't grasp when it started on the Gamecube, being so alien to console player experience. I didn't understand it when I tried it either. I didn't see the appeal; most people I listened to back then didn't either. I came back it ten years later, having grown older, calmer, and being a less rushed 20-something person. I ended up greatly enjoying it.
SlasherJPC
Banned
Controls are totally a different thing but what I fully appreciated with it is it felt like I was playing an arcade game with some new, peripheral or device. It's been a long time since I've felt that way cause I don't go to arcades anymore but it brought this sense of arcade nostalgia +Star Fox, so I thought it was rad.
Jack The Nipper
Banned
I mean it's not surprising he says this.. it's just sad.
Nintendo has been at this style for about 10 years now? I kept hoping for a return to Nintendo form but this is obvious the new nintendo.
back in the n64 days even other developers saw them as gaming gods, afraid of them, afraid to put games up against them. copying them and loving to play their games just like us.
how things have changed in ten years to 15 years.
Nintendo has been at this style for about 10 years now? I kept hoping for a return to Nintendo form but this is obvious the new nintendo.
back in the n64 days even other developers saw them as gaming gods, afraid of them, afraid to put games up against them. copying them and loving to play their games just like us.
how things have changed in ten years to 15 years.
CrazyArcadia
Member
Miyamoto said:
He's right about that. One might prefer the consumable product (or say, cinematic experiences, streamlined gamedesign so that you can jump right into any game and controls, one-and-done games) vs. the product to enjoy leisurely (aka replay-centric games, getting to know gameplay mechanics, get ready to 'learn' new approaches or play differently). It's difficult to marry those concepts, and one part of your audience will always prefer it the other way around.
Needless to say, I also think Star Fox Zero is an underrated game on an underrated platform (though not the most underrated game). It falls into a similiar pitfall like Wonderful 101 in that it plays differently than other games in the genre and needs some time to sink in. But with Wonderful 101, people were already expecting a different game whereas with Star Fox, people were waiting for a safe successor to Star Fox 64 and then were put off by the controls for some reasons.
I can see where some of the complaints come from, at the same time I truly enjoy the game (level design, Arcade gameplay, boss fights) and the controls a lot. I think a lot of people do not want to play with motion controls in general or never bothered getting good with them - yet I feel restricted by the usual right-analogue-stick aiming since that never felt as precise and quick to me compared to motion controls which for me is the best thing for shooting/aiming since the computer mouse (also seen on Splatoon and Metroid Prime Collection). Somehow, the Star Fox controls felt quite natural to me, especially now with the ability to aim your laser in another direction than the direction you're actually flying.
I am not sure about the "for kids/siblings" quote though. Maybe that's lost in translation or context, I guess if you're used to a certain way games are handled after playing tons of them as an adult, it's more difficult to let yourself immersed by something which controls or plays differently? And yeah, coming from the creator of the game, this might come with a grain of salt. On the other hand, I am supportive of an artist and creator supporting his product - just because many people did not like the outcome, it is his right to still say "It is a good product and I stand behind it, even if it's not for everyone". I find some honesty in that and in many contexts I prefer this to someone saying "OK, people do not like this approach so now I also say 'this is bad' and instead of trying to get them to better understand it or improving this concept, I just fall back to something safe.". Of course, ideally you have both the creator and the consumer in synch, but I do not feel the absolute need for every product to please everyone and I also do not feel the need for a creator to cater to a specific broad audience all the time (apart from economical neccessity, which Miyamoto seems to be lucky enough to stand above these days with his role at Nintendo allowing him for pet projects and experiments like that). It's nice to have games which play it safe for comfort, but it's also nice to challenge both gamedesign/game control standards and the creator/consumer relationship. This can be hit or miss, but it's a great way to break out of just refining a concept over and over (just saying for example, twin stick analogue FPS controls were once new as well an in some earlier games, people didn't always like it either. Still, somewhere some creators believed in it and pulled through and now it's industry standard).
blame space
Banned
if this game was the only game ever made, it would easily be one of the best game of all time.
LordRaptor
Member
A lot of people really disliked Demons Souls controls when it was released and criticised it for being unresponsive.
There's that famous Gamespot(?) review of that PS1 Aliens game where they described standard dual analogue setup as "terrifying".
There's that Eurogamer review of Resident Evil 4 Wii where they say the wiimote + pointer controls are wobbly fuzzy shit compared to the precision of the GC / PS2 versions.
To this day if you look hard enough you'll find someone on a message board who'll claim to be able to pwn anyone on a mouse and keyboard with a controller in an FPS.
Shit, just the MGS series refusal to swap X and O in the Western versions because they hardcoded the Japanese placement annoyed many.
He's not wrong that a lot of people don't have the time or inclination to learn new input schemes; the only argument is whether that is the fault of the designer not catering to the audience they work for, or the fault of the audience for not having an open enough mind.
There are examples either way.
There's that famous Gamespot(?) review of that PS1 Aliens game where they described standard dual analogue setup as "terrifying".
There's that Eurogamer review of Resident Evil 4 Wii where they say the wiimote + pointer controls are wobbly fuzzy shit compared to the precision of the GC / PS2 versions.
To this day if you look hard enough you'll find someone on a message board who'll claim to be able to pwn anyone on a mouse and keyboard with a controller in an FPS.
Shit, just the MGS series refusal to swap X and O in the Western versions because they hardcoded the Japanese placement annoyed many.
He's not wrong that a lot of people don't have the time or inclination to learn new input schemes; the only argument is whether that is the fault of the designer not catering to the audience they work for, or the fault of the audience for not having an open enough mind.
There are examples either way.