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[Occam]

Idiotic cost saving measure, nothing else. And it is going to cost them sales, considering that the cheaper competing product (Xbox One S) has it.

One of the most boneheaded hardware decisions of Sony in many years. Whoever is responsible should be fired, or at least demoted, because depriving PlayStation of this method of UHD content delivery (which is the only option for people with slow internet) is going contrary to Sony's goal to increase 4k TV adoption (synergy).

I am still shocked by the level of idiocy displayed here. How could anyone possibly think this was a good idea?

 

[El_Chino]

As of June 24, 2016 the total amount of UHD blu-ray movies that have been sold? A grand total of 228K

Is it still kind of silly that Sony didn't include a UHD blu-ray player? Yes.

Can I see why they didn't? Yes.

Didn't UHD Blu Rays just start to become mainstream? Aren't the players $400 on their own?

Now imagine how much that will jump within the year, imagine what it could've been now that there's a "cheap" UHD player aka Xbox One S/PS4pro

 

[orthodoxy1095]

As of June 24, 2016 the total amount of UHD blu-ray movies that have been sold? A grand total of 228K

Is it still kind of silly that Sony didn't include a UHD blu-ray player? Yes.

Can I see why they didn't? Yes.

Go compare this number to the same timeframe of Blu-Ray sales when they first came out.

It's okay. I'll wait.

 

[Drillary Clinton]

I'm amazed at the lengths people are going to to justify this decision by Sony

 

[Drillary Clinton]

As of June 24, 2016 the total amount of UHD blu-ray movies that have been sold? A grand total of 228K

Is it still kind of silly that Sony didn't include a UHD blu-ray player? Yes.

Can I see why they didn't? Yes.

Lmao bro that's almost quadruple what Blurays sold within the same timeframe of their launch and that's with only two players being available until the last month.

 

[Atomski]

People saying there is no point.. wont we eventually need it when textures get so high that developers need more room than a standard bluray disk?

 

[BONKERS]

People saying there is no point.. wont we eventually need it when textures get so high that developers need more room than a standard bluray disk?

I feel like they will run into the i/o bottleneck way before that would become an issue.

Slow BD drive>Slow mechanical HDD>Super fast system wide Ram bandwidth.
Hence why games require installs and then a lot of games try to cache and preload as much into Ram as possible. (And even then, streaming can still be an issue)

I can't argue against more storage in general though as it would allow the game to be bigger, use higher quality offline rendered FMVs(Which is something that shouldn't be a thing anyway),potentially use all lossless audio files,etc.

I think it's purely because a lot of people stopped buying Blu-Rays. Or those that still do are a small percentage.

But that's not really true.

Physical Media is still very popular and still sells a lot.

If it's a niche then it's a huge niche. I refuse to stream unless I have no other choice.(South Park HD re-renderings of old episodes for example)

Shit, walk in to Wal Mart and 2/3rds of the physical media they sell is still DVD.
You won't convince people that's a dead format either.


It's just another nail in the coffin that the PS4Pro is not a real 4k machine that is trying to use 4k as it's selling point.

"4k! 4k! HDR HDR!" -"But it's actually sub 4k rendering, BUT it's actually only super compressed streaming that isn't even on par with 2k BD video quality"

Lmao bro that's almost quadruple what Blurays sold within the same timeframe of their launch and that's with only two players being available until the last month.

And that's with 2k BD being a huge upgrade over DVD and current CRT TV standards of the time. Not to mention it was REAL 2k content most of the time and not half upscaled releases.

 

[ty_hot]

they did because they dont expect getting an average of 15 dollars per PS4 pro coming from royalties of UHD BD movies.

 

[lowrider007]

Perhaps my brain lives in future land or something but I just can't comprehend peoples desperateness to invest to physical media, it just feels so antiqued to me, I'm so glad Sony decided to ditch UHD and release a console a cheaper price point because no way in hell would a UHD drive only add $15's to the RRP of the console.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

Perhaps my brain lives in future land or something but I just can't comprehend peoples desperateness to invest to physical media, it just feels so antiqued to me,

How does it feel antiqued, when it has much, much better image quality (vastly superior bitrate) and features (HDR for every movie, Dolby Atmos and DTS:X) than any other medium? It is literally the most advanced medium available.

I'm so glad Sony decided to ditch UHD and release a console a cheaper price point because no way in hell would a UHD drive only add $14's to the RRP of the console.

Why do you think that?

 

[Widge]

By the time 4k becomes mass market in both terms of content, capable streaming infrastructure and affordable graphics hardware, Sony will be ready to roll out the PS5 and PS5 pro generation.

This is an iterative stop gap, much in the same vein as any S variant iPhone.

 

[Widge]

Shit, walk in to Wal Mart and 2/3rds of the physical media they sell is still DVD.
You won't convince people that's a dead format either.

With that indicative, 2/3rds of the market is catered for with PS4 Pro and then a significant portion of that final 1/3rd will no doubt be BluRay, which the PS4 Pro caters for. And there you have the majority of the market and buyers covered nicely.

By the time BluRay (or if) comes to be the 2/3rds and UHD is the 1/3rd, PS5 time.

 

[Inuhanyou]

They wanted to hit a price point and hit it. But i think they still should have added an UHDBR drive. I mean, their whole push behind 4K content and all.

 

[Aceofspades]

Because $399.

Keep the price affordable.

 

[lowrider007]

How does it feel antiqued, when it has much, much better image quality (vastly superior bitrate) and features (HDR for every movie, Dolby Atmos and DTS:X) than any other medium? It is literally the most advanced medium available.

Yes what is on the actual disc may be impressive but the actual physical media itself feels very antiquated to me, it won't be long before streaming will match or come close enough that most people won't be able to tell the difference, I don't want to invest my money in something that I believe isn't the future.

 

[IvorB]

More likely it got axed to keep the cost down. People who this console is aimed at (AV enthusiasts, 4K early-ish adopters etc) are surely more likely than the average to care about quality and so lean towards blu-ray over streaming. Sony also has a lot of stake in blu-ray at all levels of the eco-system combined with the fact this is supposed to be a "pro" level 4K system. So really you would have thought the blu-ray drive inclusion would be a no-brainer. I think it was dropped because Sony cheaped out and not part of some master strategy.

 

[IvorB]

Perhaps my brain lives in future land or something but I just can't comprehend peoples desperateness to invest to physical media, it just feels so antiqued to me.

Well, in the future land where your brain lives, if streaming media has the same quality as a blu-ray disc then it must be a good place.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

I hope those aghast at this decision have a collection of UHD Blu rays on their shelf. Otherwise the reaction seems OTT.

 

[bennibop]

Less people are buying and viewing there films on disk, makes sense to concentrate on services such as Netflix etc rather than raising the base cost of the machine.

 

[test_account]

Yup. It is crazy. For months there was nonstop speculation of how PS4 Pro will be a media machine and now that it doesn't have UHD blu-ray support, oh most people already stream, most have other players etc.

Can you show me those who said that it was going to be a media machine, and now say most people stream etc.? The same persons saying both things.

Perhaps my brain lives in future land or something but I just can't comprehend peoples desperateness to invest to physical media, it just feels so antiqued to me, I'm so glad Sony decided to ditch UHD and release a console a cheaper price point because no way in hell would a UHD drive only add $15's to the RRP of the console.

I like to have physical stuff. I dont care that much for movies though, but for games i strongly prefer it.

 

[Joelstinton14]

I think Sony just sees the writing on the wall. Blu Ray sales are still below DVD sales even in 2016. Digital sales are increasing year after year. There are only a handful of studios even supporting UHD discs. I bought the Xbox One S partially for the UHD support only to find out that none of the movies I want to watch are available. No Star Wars, No Civil War. Actually there are no Disney owned properties at all. Even the studios that are producing 4k discs are dipping their toes rather than jumping in.

Would I have liked to have a UHD player in the Pro? Totally. Is it a deal breaker for me?Not at all.

This. Whilst the lack of a UHD drive is disappointing, the large numbers are in streaming and digital content. And by large numbers, they are significantly larger.

The blu ray market, and the physical market in general is becoming more and more an enthusiast market - the products released are becoming increasingly aimed at them - collectors editions, baulked out with lots of extra features etc. That market will always exist, but year by year, more and more numbers will move to digital.

You can argue that the pro is an enthusiast machine and aimed at the type of people who are willing to pay extra, but .. yeah i think sony has seen the writing on the wall when it comes to stuff like this.

 

[dealer-]

PS4 Pro makes it LESS likely I will pick up a 4K TV now.

It looks like we will get decent options with games at 1080p - higher framerate etc, Netflix 4K selection is very limited and quality is connection dependent. The only way to get high quality content on a 4K TV would have been Blu Rays and now we won't have that choice.

 

[robo]

its a dumb descision for me, buy films on Disc for a reason,Got 200mb fibre broadband, download nowt, watch netflix in HD occasionally.

Will this force me to stream more, probably the opposite actually, its made me re-think getting a 4K tv, not getting a stand alone player, need fewer boxes not more.

So for me Sony has cost themselves approx £2000, 1700 for the TV and 300 for the pro.

 

[Platinum_D]

Maybe they cut the price by $50 or more by not adding it to the console and who knows perhaps they decided price vs UHD player... if that was the case how many of you would of been ok with a slight price increase just to have a UHD player on the PS4 Pro?

 

[robo]

Maybe they cut the price by $50 or more by not adding it to the console and who knows perhaps they decided price vs UHD player... if that was the case how many of you would of been ok with a slight price increase just to have a UHD player on the PS4 Pro?

i would have, I already stated this in the neo thread on more than one occasion, but it seems Sony is after the masses, which is not my demographic.

 

[Sweep14]

If it would cost them $50-$100 extra then how could the XB1S be $299? I don't know the actual cost though to include UHD bluray playback though... does anyone?

Because, most certainly, MS is loosing tons of money on it

 

[Sweep14]

And you brought up spec differences, the Scorpio is higher spec than Pro and I can pretty much guarantee it's going to have 4K Blu-Ray playback.

Yep but PS4 Pro will be cheaper and starts with a decisive advantage : 1 year early on the market.

 

[VinFTW]

Because, most certainly, MS is loosing tons of money on it

For The Players

 

[Rotch Crot]

My god, Sony apologists will go to any lengths to explain away a dumb decision.

This.

It was a strategically stupid decision.

 

[Platinum_D]

If it would cost them $50-$100 extra then how could the XB1S be $299? I don't know the actual cost though to include UHD bluray playback though... does anyone?

I currently have a Samsung UHD player that was priced at $399.99 when it first launched but i don't know if it is that pricey to have it on a console... Microsoft is loosing money on the Xbox One S that's almost certain

 

[Imp the Dimp]

I was really disappointed to find out the PS4 Pro has no UHD drive obviously. I guess Sony is gambling and hoping for 4k Blu-rays to never take off which is possible to be fair.

 

[Kayant]

I think it's stupid decision for them not to include it because I cannot see where they wouldn't want to push UHD given the presence of the console with better supporting 4K and HDR.

Now for why they would not about it as others of said it's probably the fact that it didn't fit in the price point they were going for and the extra cost wasn't worth for them. It could a difference of breaking even or making profit on each device sold to making a small loss. Also as PS4 Pro support 4K streaming that probably further solidified their decision for it.

So yh I would say it was strategically done to hit a price point poor choice IMO as it would be easier to sell "4K" gaming + full 4K media(streaming and physical media) to people than just mostly 4K gaming.

 

[gtj1092]

Can't say it was a mistake until we see the sales. Have a feeling it will sale well for what it is.

 

[Hexagonal]

Absolutely.

If you are willing to throw your monies for another $400 junk box that you will throw away in 2019 (when the PS5 releases with some of your fave PS4 games... remastered), you will shout that it finally features 4K Blu-Ray drive, actual 4K gaming, and will buy it en masse to please your favourite MegaCorp, Sony.

 

[IvorB]

Maybe they cut the price by $50 or more by not adding it to the console and who knows perhaps they decided price vs UHD player... if that was the case how many of you would of been ok with a slight price increase just to have a UHD player on the PS4 Pro?

I would have been okay with that. When someone is trying to pitch me a "pro" or higher end model of something I don't want to hear about cut corners.

 

[SnakeEyes]

Ehh, they may put one in the PS5 when UHD BluRays are more prevalent, but for right now I couldn't give a shit. I want the Pro for its supposedly better performance when it comes to VR.

 

[Sniffynose]

Yes what is on the actual disc may be impressive but the actual physical media itself feels very antiquated to me, it won't be long before streaming will match or come close enough that most people won't be able to tell the difference, I don't want to invest my money in something that I believe isn't the future.

Uh where I live in Canada I could lease a nice car for less than what it would cost to stream 4k on the shit Internet we get here, I'll take the $20 blueray disc that doesn't keep costing me money to watch again lol

 

[Eccocid]

Maybeeee they have the data of bluray movie usage for movies on all the ps4 consoles? They can clearly collect data. And they saw its very low. Not many people use ps4 to watch bluray movies so they removed it on ps4 pro to reduce the cost?

 

[SnakeEyes]

Maybeeee they have the data of bluray movie usage for movies on all the ps4 consoles? They can clearly collect data. And they saw its very low. Not many people use ps4 to watch bluray movies so they removed it on ps4 pro to reduce the cost?

I have both a PS3 and a PS4 in my household. The PS3 sits in the lounge and that's what wifey and I use for all our BD movie and streaming usage, the PS4 sits in my Games room and is solely for gaming.

Maybe it's my fault.

 

[Clear]

I am still shocked by the level of idiocy displayed here. How could anyone possibly think this was a good idea?

Uptake on Blu-Ray was and remains far slower than expected, and UHD Blu-Ray is unlikely to reverse the trend, so its real value to most consumers is likely minimal.

More to the point, shifting to BD as a format for delivering software in the PS3 era made a lot of sense as being able to store that volume of data on a single disc was of real benefit to gaming as well as the multi-media side. The same absolutely cannot be said to be true of UHD Blu.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

It's a given that the decision was strategic.

The question is what their strategy actually is here, and I'm honestly baffled as to what it is.

 

[web01]

Idiotic cost saving measure, nothing else. And it is going to cost them sales, considering that the cheaper competing product (Xbox One S) has it.

One of the most boneheaded hardware decisions of Sony in many years. Whoever is responsible should be fired, or at least demoted, because depriving PlayStation of this method of UHD content delivery (which is the only option for people with slow internet) is going contrary to Sony's goal to increase 4k TV adoption (synergy).

I am still shocked by the level of idiocy displayed here. How could anyone possibly think this was a good idea?

Great the point, the number of ps3 consoles that was sold along 1080p tvs as bluray players was massive. This is really a bone headed decision.
When people buy 4k tvs the sales people will be pushing them towards xbox s so they can sell them that and some 4k discs.

 

[Oersted]

Perhaps my brain lives in future land or something but I just can't comprehend peoples desperateness to invest to physical media, it just feels so antiqued to me, I'm so glad Sony decided to ditch UHD and release a console a cheaper price point because no way in hell would a UHD drive only add $15's to the RRP of the console.

Should have ditched a discdrive all together?

 

[MilkyJoe]

Maybe because of that:



https://www.avforums.com/threads/dvd-and-blu-ray-sales-statistics.2004986/

People don't buy Blurays. So UHD BRs...

OK for the "but they're saving just 15$ with that", yeah, but just 15$x1 million =... Yeah, that's not so little.

Then maybe it should have been $414.99

I'm sure the masses would have happily paid $15 for a UHD blu ray player.

 

[Eccocid]

Should have ditched a discdrive all together?

I am fine with it actually.. While i have access to cheaper games in retail as second hand etc i am usually too lazy and buy it digital lol. At least if they give an option for console without discdrive and cheaper i would buy it. I have only like 3 ps4 games on discs. among 20 (not counting digital indies)

 

[lynux3]

It's pretty obvious the decision to keep the UHD drive out was to keep costs down. In the end gamers win, movie enthusiasts lose.

 

[IvorB]

Maybeeee they have the data of bluray movie usage for movies on all the ps4 consoles? They can clearly collect data. And they saw its very low. Not many people use ps4 to watch bluray movies so they removed it on ps4 pro to reduce the cost?

That wouldn't surprise me since the PS4 blu-ray player is complete sh*t and basically worthless. I still have to use my PS3 for this reason.

 

[Matticers]

It was all about money. Whether they're saving $10 per console or $100.

If they knew how many people would be pissed off about this, I think they would have ate the loss or bumped the price slightly and included it. They screwed up big time here trying to save some money. I don't think it's worth annoying your hardcore fans who wanted that included. Plus all of the negative attention coming from it. They just underestimated their fan base's desire for the drive.

Will it make a big impact in sales? No, probably not... so I doubt they care that much. But they've certainly lost numerous sales because of it. I've seen lots of people talk about getting an Xbox One S instead and they aren't just saying it out of anger. I have a few friends already researching what games they want to get with the system. It was just a really bad cost cutting move on their part.

 

[CouchMaster]

Does Sony sell dedicated 4K blu ray players?

 

[EdwardTeach]

You can argue it both ways. IF they included it then it would have boosted the format. However I think they (correctly) prioritised price. The pro is so close to the basic and much cheaper than most people were expecting, so I think it will sell well and their decision will prove to be the right one.