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[Audioboxer]

Mainstream market isn't buying a Pro, period. The Pro can only sell by appealing to the videophile niche.

Who made the PS4 sell better than the PS2 (on the current trajectory)? Unless you want to argue Sony at 40m units still haven't tapped into the mainstream market at all.

Don't underestimate the value proposal in having the next best PS4 after someone has already been sold on and invested into the current PS4.

 

[UrbanRats]

Its a games console not a multimedia box.

They tried that route with PS3 and it didn't work out so good for them.

What about Ps2 and dvd? Besides, this is supposed to be a "premium" box, and they want to push 4K TVs, but don't allow you to watch Blurays (the only way to have really good image quality) with their N.1 hardware offering? It's just dumb.

 

[Toki767]

Hesitant about a format that they helped create as part of the Blu-Ray consortium?

And how does 4K compare to 3D exactly? That doesn't make sense to me.

Masses couldn't be convinced they needed a 3DTV.

Masses still aren't necessarily being convinced they need a 4KTV so much as that's just what TVs get made these days.

HDTVs don't really break down that quick either. Most people who have bought 1080p sets years ago are still going to be using them.

Lack of adoption of new TV technology leads to less sales of a format meaning no reason for manufacturers to really support it.

 

[rtcn63]

There is not a complete dearth. Practically every major theatrical release this year is getting a 4K Blu-Ray release. On top of that, many classics are also slated to be released this year on 4K Blu-Ray. So availability is steadily growing and will continue to do so.

I have almost no doubt that Sony will release a revision that includes UHD support if and when the demand is there. We're talking about a company that didn't announce a standalone 4K player when many of its competitors did ( http://www.cnet.com/news/sony-4k-blu-ray-player-might-not-arrive-until-2017/ ), so there has to be a reason. Maybe Sony has completely misinterpreted the market, or maybe they know something that most of us don't. Maybe they're simply having issues on the supply/manufacturing side. Could be anything.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Fix this shit Guerrilla

 

[pillowtalk]

It sucks, yeah. But I really don't give a shit. I haven't bought physical games in over a year and haven't bought any dvds/blurays for even longer.

 

[UrbanRats]

Lack of adoption of new TV technology leads to less sales of a format meaning no reason for manufacturers to really support it.

Masses are going to be convinced to buy a Pro over a regular PS4? 100€ premium, to use with a 4K tv you probably have yet to buy, and you can't even use blurays with it.

They are pushing 4K so hard with this, it's basically the only selling point, and the most important feature is missing.

 

[Toki767]

Masses are going to be convinced to buy a Pro over a regular PS4? 100€ premium, to use with a 4K tv you probably have yet to buy, and you can't even use blurays with it.

They are pushing 4K so hard with this, it's basically the only selling point, and the most important feature is missing.

They're not just pushing 4KTV though. They're pushing it for 1080p users too.

 

[Flying Toaster]

Masses are going to be convinced to buy a Pro over a regular PS4? 100€ premium, to use with a 4K tv you probably have yet to buy, and you can't even use blurays with it.

They are pushing 4K so hard with this, it's basically the only selling point, and the most important feature is missing.

I feel this way as well.

4k is a strange beast the people that truly care about it have the ability to play/stream 4k content already. On the other hand it should be included because it is base 4k tech...

Womp womp good job Sony.

 

[Hawk269]

Most of those who still care about physical movies already have UHD players.

True, but sales of 4k TV's will be at a all time high this year. There will be more sales of 4k sets in 2016 than in any other year because they are cheaper than ever and there is more variety. All these new owners will want a 4k Player unless they plan to only stream. Right now the only options are:

Xbox One S 500gb - $299.99
Xbox One S 1TB - $349.99
Xbox One S 2TB - $399.99
Samsung UHD - $399.99 (on sale this week at BB for $319.99)
Panasonic UHD -$699.99 limited availability.

That is it for players on the market. So all these new buyers and wanting physical media have the above list to choose from. Having the PS4Pro in that listing would of been a great thing, not only the most powerful console but also a UHD player to boot. I personally think it was a missed opportunity.

 

[ReBurn]

I have almost no doubt that Sony will release a revision that includes UHD support if and when the demand is there. We're talking about a company that didn't announce a standalone 4K player when many of its competitors did ( http://www.cnet.com/news/sony-4k-blu-ray-player-might-not-arrive-until-2017/ ), so there has to be a reason. Maybe Sony has completely misinterpreted the market, or maybe they know something that most of us don't. Maybe they're simply having issues on the supply/manufacturing side. Could be anything.

I know that Sony is releasing their newest movies on 4K UHD Blu-Ray as well as some gems from their back catalog. So they must have determined that some demand is there.

I also know that Sony released a new 4K storefront and streaming service a few months ago. Part of me wonders if the strategic decision is to try push adoption of their ULTRA offering when they launch this in November. Wouldn't be the first time they used that strategy.

 

[jjonez18]

It's premium product that lacks a standard feature. That's the beginning and end of the discussion as far as I'm concerned.

 

[ReBurn]

Masses couldn't be convinced they needed a 3DTV.

Masses still aren't necessarily being convinced they need a 4KTV so much as that's just what TVs get made these days.

HDTVs don't really break down that quick either. Most people who have bought 1080p sets years ago are still going to be using them.

Lack of adoption of new TV technology leads to less sales of a format meaning no reason for manufacturers to really support it.

If 4K TV adoption weren't steadily growing then why would Sony feel the need to bring a console with 4K capabilities to market?

 

[rtcn63]

A possible theory- Sony didn't foresee MS including UHD playback on their XB1 revision, at least not when they were first drawing up the plans for the Pro. Meaning Sony didn't factor it into their projections, so it never got to the point where they were contacting suppliers to secure components, budgeting the necessary costs, etc. By the time Scorpio's specs were announced, Sony had already invested in the design and hardware they'd settled on. Even if they could somehow change the console to accept a UHD drive, it's feasible that MS and the companies making standalone players had already purchased most/all of the available UHD drives from suppliers.

Really though, it could be a million different things.

 

[Nightengale]

Sony having a 4K video storefront is not the same as PlayStation having one.

They're both Sony, but they're also different companies that don't necessarily align in objective.

 

[Toki767]

If 4K TV adoption weren't steadily growing then why would Sony feel the need to bring a console with 4K capabilities to market?

If you paid close attention to the presentation both during and after on the post livestream, they were pimping out 4K, but they were also trying to do a pretty hard sell telling 1080p TV owners what they would be getting with the Pro. They made it a point to ask virtually ever developer they interviewed what the Pro meant for people with 1080p TVs.

This isn't meant to be a strictly 4K device and I'd even go so far as to guess that the majority of people who buy the Pro won't even own a 4KTV yet.

 

[Branduil]

Who made the PS4 sell better than the PS2 (on the current trajectory)? Unless you want to argue Sony at 40m units still haven't tapped into the mainstream market at all.

Don't underestimate the value proposal in having the next best PS4 after someone has already been sold on and invested into the current PS4.

The PS4 is not going to sell 150 million units. Also, there's as big difference between selling a console with exclusive games and selling a more expensive premium version.

 

[ReBurn]

If you paid close attention to the presentation both during and after on the post livestream, they were pimping out 4K, but they were also trying to do a pretty hard sell telling 1080p TV owners what they would be getting with the Pro. They made it a point to ask virtually ever developer they interviewed what the Pro meant for people with 1080p TVs.

This isn't meant to be a strictly 4K device and I'd even go so far as to guess that the majority of people who buy the Pro won't even own a 4KTV.

I never said it was a strictly 4K device. But they were definitely focused on 4K.

They had to talk up the 1080p benefits to make it not seem like a niche device, which it is, but they want people to buy it even if they can't take full advantage of it.

 

[TheXbox]

Of course it's strategic. Everything involved in the conception of a new machine intended for tens of millions of homes is strategic. The issue is that their strategy is pretty unclear, or it directly contradicts what they're pitching for the Pro. This is a machine billed first and foremost as a 4K device, and yet, short of downloading a hundred gig video file for a 4K film*, runs nothing natively at 4K. Not games, not streamed television or videos, and apparently not even movies.

*if that figure is off-base someone please correct me

 

[Prisoner KSC2-303]

If you paid close attention to the presentation both during and after on the post livestream, they were pimping out 4K, but they were also trying to do a pretty hard sell telling 1080p TV owners what they would be getting with the Pro. They made it a point to ask virtually ever developer they interviewed what the Pro meant for people with 1080p TVs.

This isn't meant to be a strictly 4K device and I'd even go so far as to guess that the majority of people who buy the Pro won't even own a 4KTV yet.

I'd say that's a fair assumption. Many will buy it with the possible intention of getting a 4K TV later. In that sense it's perhaps more reminiscent of how the 360 was positioned in the market - cheaper than the direct rival, out sooner and eschewing a future proofed physical format. The Pro isn't really a premium product, it's more a value offering before Scorpio comes out and a possible upgrade to those already committed to Sony gaming.

 

[mantis23]

I think Sony just sees the writing on the wall. Blu Ray sales are still below DVD sales even in 2016. Digital sales are increasing year after year. There are only a handful of studios even supporting UHD discs. I bought the Xbox One S partially for the UHD support only to find out that none of the movies I want to watch are available. No Star Wars, No Civil War. Actually there are no Disney owned properties at all. Even the studios that are producing 4k discs are dipping their toes rather than jumping in.

Would I have liked to have a UHD player in the Pro? Totally. Is it a deal breaker for me?Not at all.

 

[Renekton]

PC no UHD player as well, dealbreaker?

 

[Audioboxer]

The PS4 is not going to sell 150 million units. Also, there's as big difference between selling a console with exclusive games and selling a more expensive premium version.

Nah I don't think so either but being front loaded at such a pace is still impressive given you'd be expecting the sales to pick up when prices were lower. I mean PS4 sales could pick up even more still. Although I do expect a drop off a cliff one day, and a lot sooner than PS2 sales.

I expect the Pro to do fairly well around the PSVR. I mean that experience is going to be so much better a Pro/VR bundle would be wise. Especially if they can get that bundle packaged cheaper than a PC headset. Probably not initially. Although it still goes to say you don't need to upgrade your PC on top of a PC headset.

 

[Beer Monkey]

They should have gone SUPER strategic and removed all physical media playback abilities.

A shame they didn't have the courage.

 

[Toki767]

They should have gone SUPER strategic and removed all physical media playback abilities.

A shame they didn't have the courage.

Seriously. They could've saved people $18.

Spoiler

lol

 

[Weevilone]

I think Sony just sees the writing on the wall. Blu Ray sales are still below DVD sales even in 2016. Digital sales are increasing year after year. There are only a handful of studios even supporting UHD discs. I bought the Xbox One S partially for the UHD support only to find out that none of the movies I want to watch are available. No Star Wars, No Civil War. Actually there are no Disney owned properties at all. Even the studios that are producing 4k discs are dipping their toes rather than jumping in.

Would I have liked to have a UHD player in the Pro? Totally. Is it a deal breaker for me?Not at all.

It is a chicken and egg thing. Both hardware and software are important.

UHD is the only reason I bought a One S. In my book Sony is just falling off the pace with the Pro. Enjoy your low bitrate UHD movies I guess, masses.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

These threads read so similarly to GameCube lacking DVD movie playback. I'm not saying, but I'm just saying.

 

[Dazza]

It theoretically wouldn't cost much more for the hardware capable of playing UHD Blurays. The major cost would be in the licensing. I wonder if they made it a purchasable software upgrade. If it cut the price by $20 or more to get it under $400 it was a good idea

 

[IvanJ]

I was never going to buy Pro anyway, and I've never even seen a UHD disc in my life, so this omission does not bother me at all.

Personally, I would rather buy a cheaper console without UHD support than pay even $20 more for the one that has it, but first and foremost I would definitely buy an even cheaper console with no disc drive at all (digital-only).
My PS4's disc drive has been used perhaps 10 times in 3 years, and all 10 of those times were to play my daughter's Elmo DVDs.

 

[UrbanRats]

They're not just pushing 4KTV though. They're pushing it for 1080p users too.

They spent most of the conference explaining 4K and HDR, which you need to buy a new TV for.
their segment for improvements over 1080p gaming was short and wonky (showing Shadow of Mordor, and not nearly enough direct comparisons).

Besides, people who really cared for performance over PS4, likely got a PC already.

I figure if they wanted this thing to sell, they should've covered all these bases.
At this point it's a "scoop up what's left" game.

 

[kevm3]

It is amazing to me that people in neogaf thinks a UHD Blu-ray player actually matters. UHD TVs barely matter as is. People don't care.

So why release a console centered around 4k?

 

[kevm3]

They want to push 4K TVs, not 4K Blu-rays, seems fairly obvious. Personally if I owned a PS4 Pro I'd look into getting a 4K TV, I couldn't care less about the Blu-rays.

Not everyone has unlimited bandwidth and some want the best fidelity for 4k, so Blu-Rays absolutely matter for them. It makes no sense not to include it when a 299 dollar console from your competitor has it.

 

[Bydobob]

True, but sales of 4k TV's will be at a all time high this year. There will be more sales of 4k sets in 2016 than in any other year because they are cheaper than ever and there is more variety. All these new owners will want a 4k Player unless they plan to only stream. Right now the only options are:

Xbox One S 500gb - $299.99
Xbox One S 1TB - $349.99
Xbox One S 2TB - $399.99
Samsung UHD - $399.99 (on sale this week at BB for $319.99)
Panasonic UHD -$699.99 limited availability.

That is it for players on the market. So all these new buyers and wanting physical media have the above list to choose from. Having the PS4Pro in that listing would of been a great thing, not only the most powerful console but also a UHD player to boot. I personally think it was a missed opportunity.

Couldn't agree more. Just bought a 4K TV myself and now looking at UHD Blu ray player options. Was waiting on the Neo specs but the lack of a 4K Blu Ray player has just made it a lot less compelling. Xbox One S looking like terrific value in this space now..

Need to take issue with all the 4K streaming apologists too. If you care about AV quality, streaming is a poor substitute. Even regular Blu Ray surpasses a low bitrate 4K stream.

 

[Ashtrax]

It theoretically wouldn't cost much more for the hardware capable of playing UHD Blurays. The major cost would be in the licensing. I wonder if they made it a purchasable software upgrade. If it cut the price by $20 or more to get it under $400 it was a good idea

Exactly this. If people want 4K blu ray playback, then people will want the high resolution audio that goes with it. DTS, Atmos, etc. Licensing costs would be added on top of the existing price, or at the expense of the hardware.

Take into account the aggressive pricing structure for being a gaming console, and it makes perfect sense.

 

[SPCTRE]

I think people who are overreacting to the lack of UHD Blu-ray capability are vastly overerstimating the demand for that kind of functionality.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

I see why they couldn't call it PS4K (which was the closest name, the easiest and the smartest). It doesn't neither have the sufficient hardware power nor the UHD Bluray reader to be qualified as a true 4K gaming machine and 4K media player (unless they update the Bluray Players in all PS4s to read UHD Bluray Disk like they are going to do for HDR which I highly doubt).

 

[Sojgat]

My god, Sony apologists will go to any lengths to explain away a dumb decision.

.

 

[PeregrinSe7en]

.

lame

 

[Ashtrax]

Need to take issue with all the 4K streaming apologists too. If you care about AV quality, streaming is a poor substitute. Even regular Blu Ray surpasses a low bitrate 4K stream.

If you care about AV quality, you wouldn't buy a console to play 4K blu-rays.

 

[Bydobob]

If you care about AV quality, you wouldn't buy a console to play 4K blu-rays.

Why not? There is a middle ground where you can care about AV quality and not necessarily being a purist. In any case, by all accounts the XB1S matches the more expensive Samsung in quality terms.

 

[Ashtrax]

Why not? There is a middle ground where you can care about AV quality and not necessarily being a purist. In any case, by all accounts the XB1S matches the more expensive Samsung in quality terms.

And yet, consumers also expect great pricing. Yes the Xbox One Slim fills that slot, it's a good price for entry level UHD. But people are also forgetting it's still a gaming console. So at what expense has those features been added? The PS4 Slim is now it's direct competitor as a console, which is more powerful, without the UHD player, and the PS4 Pro is now the top tier gaming device for just a little bit more.

I totally get that people want an all-in-one media device. I know it sucks for many that there is no UHD drive. But the consumer mentality, particularly with games, has always come down to that price point.

 

[WadeitOut]

PC no UHD player as well, dealbreaker?

Awful comparison. How many PCs are hooked up to large 4K displays in a living room? What percentage of people watch their movies on an actual PC?

This thread is bringing a new age revival to the SDF.

 

[Noisepurge]

A stream is not even close to the bitrate of a bluray disc...

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

It's courage

 

[SigSig]

jeff_rigby post if you're alright

 

[samar11]

I don't know a single person that even has a UHD blu-ray :/ infact I dont know anyone that even buys regular blu ray movies lol.

 

[Dabanton]

With the state of internet speeds 4K streaming will be pipedream for many for years. For me I certainly would have liked the option of having a UHD drive, I do like to collect certain movies and watch them in the best format and 4K streaming while good is not anywhere near watching a 4K on a disc.

UHD certainly would have appealed to me. This was a cheapskate decision from Sony. Nothing wrong with that but let's call it what it is. Sony are into cost saving these days,cutting this is a nice cost saving.

 

[TsunamiOfSwagger]

Would a UHD bluray benefit gaming in any way? Genuinely no idea. Never even heard of it before yesterday.
Can see the reason with not going with a more expensive drive. I used to buy DVDs and blurays all the time, now I just stream through prime and Netflix.

 

[KentBrockman]

It's likely the real question is would we prefer a lower specced box with UHD blu ray? In the end it would have to be a tradeoff of some kind.

It seems Sony's philosophy with the PS4 and Pro were to produce the highest performance consoles possible for $399.

Having video apps like Netflix/YouTube does not affect the hardware design but a UHD blue ray drive does. Since it doesn't directly benefit the gaming experience, it was sacrificed.

But yeah it does seem strange to market this as a 4K device, but not support 4K blu ray.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

PC no UHD player as well, dealbreaker?

What the hell are you blubbering about.