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[Toki767]

The decision can make some sense but it's also hard to know if it was the best choice considering this is plainly a case of not giving consumers what they wished for.

To that end, it's hard to know if including one would've been the best choice either if they have data suggesting most people don't watch blu-ray movies on their PS4s.

They made their choice. Whether it's right or wrong, time will tell. But the overreaction is just hilarious.

 

[EmiPrime]

Maybe because of that:



https://www.avforums.com/threads/dvd-and-blu-ray-sales-statistics.2004986/

People don't buy Blurays. So UHD BRs...

OK for the "but they're saving just 15$ with that", yeah, but just 15$x1 million =... Yeah, that's not so little.

Indeed. DVD boxsets of TV series are big sellers still but I don't know anyone who collects Blurays. UHD Bluray is a fledgling format that will barely have 100 releases by the end of the year and it's not something people care about. Mad Max is £4 on DVD and the UHD is £20 on Amazon, even 4K TV owners aren't going to pay the premium and the sales numbers support this (only 6 reviews for the UHD).

 

[travisbickle]

Of course it's strategic. In the same way putting a bluray in PS3 was strategic.

The strategy is the mainstream market watch movies streamed, a UHD player is not a factor.

I think its something they learnt from the early PS3 sales.

 

[bobbytkc]

It is amazing to me that people in neogaf thinks a UHD Blu-ray player actually matters. UHD TVs barely matter as is. People don't care.

 

[Qwyjibo]

Indeed. DVD boxsets of TV series are big sellers still but I don't know anyone who collects Blurays. UHD Bluray is a fledgling format that will barely have 100 releases by the end of the year and it's not something people care about. Mad Max is £4 on DVD and the UHD is £20 on Amazon, even 4K TV owners aren't going to pay the premium and the sales numbers support this (only 6 reviews for the UHD).

If you bought a 4K TV, you absolutely would pay that premium. I know I would. I already do with buying tons of blu-rays instead of dirt cheap DVD. The blu-ray drive was the main factor in me choosing a PS3 over a 360 back in the day.

Again, it just shrinks Sony's market for the Pro. For a casual gamer or parent buying for their kid, I don't see any reason for them to choose it over the Slim. If this is supposed to be an "enthusiast" console, why not go all the way and get that other niche of people who collect physical media? I post at http://forum.blu-ray.com/ and it's a pretty big online community that would've been ripe to maybe get into 4K media with a UHD player.

 

[Samanosuke Akechi]

According to recent reports, 4K movies sold twice as much as blu Rays did in their first three month period and over 1.5 million 4K tvs have been sold whereas 1080p sets sales have fallen.

Plus, 4K movies have only been on sale since March. I currently have four 4K movies, the revenant, BvS, amazing Spider-Man 2, and deadpool and all are amazing on my Xbox one S 4K player and 4K tv.

 

[boredandlazy]

As of June 24, 2016 the total amount of UHD blu-ray movies that have been sold? A grand total of 228K

Is it still kind of silly that Sony didn't include a UHD blu-ray player? Yes.

Can I see why they didn't? Yes.

How many people may have started buying UHD discs because their PS4 Pro supported it?
The PS3 certainly did it's part in winning the format war with HD-DVD by driving Blu-ray adoption.

 

[Mrbob]

Definitely strategical. They are projecting selling X number pros and didn't want to pay the extra 15 dollars (roughly I believe) per console to include a uhd drive. Especially when everyone uses Netflix.

I wanted 4k Blu-ray movies but I suspect I'm in the minority. This is more of a talking point right now than actual impact.

 

[Toki767]

If you bought a 4K TV, you absolutely would pay that premium. I know I would. I already do with buying tons of blu-rays instead of dirt cheap DVD. The blu-ray drive was the main factor in me choosing a PS3 over a 360 back in the day.

Again, it just shrinks Sony's market for the Pro. For a casual gamer or parent buying for their kid, I don't see any reason for them to choose it over the Slim. If this is supposed to be an "enthusiast" console, why not go all the way and get that other niche of people who collect physical media? I post at http://forum.blu-ray.com/ and it's a pretty big online community that would've been ripe to maybe get into 4K media with a UHD player.

But that's the thing. I think Sony want most people to buy the Slim. That's where their profit margins are going to be higher.

They're probably not making a ton of profit on the Pro vs the Slim so they probably don't care too much about how well the Pro does. If anything, this is basically a huge experiment for them.

 

[Samanosuke Akechi]

http://4k.com/news/while-tv-shipmen...bucked-the-trend-and-continue-to-do-so-12971/

4K tv sales increased by 173% year over year last year.

 

[EASTC0AST_GH05T]

My god, Sony apologists will go to any lengths to explain away a dumb decision.

How exactly is it dumb though? blu ray dvds rarely ever move off the shelves as is. I was hyped to have a standard blu ray player in my PS3 but honestly only watched 1-2 blu ray movies to test it out. Having more options is always nice but almost everyone I know who owned a PS3 from launch until the PS4 never even tried out a blu ray movie. I think we are moving towards a streaming non disc future that you will hear ppl bitch about for awhile but will have no choice but to accept it. Hell allot of my game stores don't even sell PC disc based games just the redeem key codes to punch in.

 

[Toki767]

http://4k.com/news/while-tv-shipmen...bucked-the-trend-and-continue-to-do-so-12971/

4K tv sales increased by 173% year over year last year.

Those suckers buying 4KTVs during Black Friday right before the UHD standard became a thing in January.

 

[grizzelye]

Indeed. DVD boxsets of TV series are big sellers still but I don't know anyone who collects Blurays. UHD Bluray is a fledgling format that will barely have 100 releases by the end of the year and it's not something people care about. Mad Max is £4 on DVD and the UHD is £20 on Amazon, even 4K TV owners aren't going to pay the premium and the sales numbers support this (only 6 reviews for the UHD).

Hell man, if Netflix would release Daredevil Season 1+2 4K HDR, I'll be all over that.

But seriously, if someone's going to drop over 1k on a HDR enabled 4K TV, pretty sure they can afford UHD Blurays.

 

[Qwyjibo]

But that's the thing. I think Sony want most people to buy the Slim. That's where their profit margins are going to be higher.

Makes sense then. I'm just really confused as to who the target for the Pro is then. The most hardcore console-only gamers? If I wasn't a blu-ray collector, I still would have trouble justifying getting a Pro since I also play on PC. A performance improvement in strict exclusives like The Show, Uncharted, and Bloodborne would be nice but for that price?

 

[Adam Tyner]

Hell man, if Netflix would release Daredevil Season 1+2 4K HDR, I'll be all over that.

Marvel/Disney aren't even releasing Daredevil on traditional Blu-ray in the U.S. At least it's not coming at the same time as it is overseas, where a BD collection of the first season is just a few weeks away.

I'd flip over an Ultra HD Blu-ray release, but Disney has zero enthusiasm for home video releases of their TV series anymore.

 

[kevm3]

If it was, it was a terrible strategy. You want to push 4k, but you omit one of the ways to get high quality 4k content?

 

[styl3s]

My god, Sony apologists will go to any lengths to explain away a dumb decision.

Except for the fact blu-rays sales have been on a decline over the past few years go look up the numbers at the top 100 sales of each year going back to a few years. And UHD sales are even worse not to mention the general consumer isn't adapting 4K like they were HDTV's 5,6,7,8,9 years ago. There is a reason you see such high demand for HDTV deals during black friday nobody out hobbyist cares about 4k

This has nothing to do with apologists it has to do with GAF =/= the general consumer. Companies don't focus on our demographic to sell products. More and more consumers are gravitating towards digital media like Hulu and Netflix and Prime.

Marvel/Disney aren't even releasing Daredevil on traditional Blu-ray in the U.S. At least it's not coming at the same time as it is overseas, where a BD collection of the first season is just a few weeks away.

I'd flip over an Ultra HD Blu-ray release, but Disney has zero enthusiasm for home video releases of their TV series anymore.

This reminds me i pre-ordered the steelbook of that when does it ship? later this month? next?

 

[DavidDesu]

The upside is, when I do get a 4K TV the XB1S will be pretty damn cheap and be a great choice for a 4K player and I get a taste of some Xbox games, as much as nothing particularly interests me there. Weird choice from Sony. Sure the raw figures mean it's likely very wise on their part, but I doubt 4K streaming will really make the most of a 4K tv versus tens of gigabytes of uncompressed stuff off a disc.

Saying all that I find Netflix streaming in high quality is pretty much identical to blurays to me. House of Cards looks ridiculously crisp so heh, maybe streaming is the right choice. I just hope Google let's me upgrade my Force Awakens purchase to 4K whenever they bring that to YouTube, and not expect me to pay full price again (unlikely).

 

[DangerMouse]

Marvel/Disney aren't even releasing Daredevil on traditional Blu-ray in the U.S. At least it's not coming at the same time as it is overseas, where a BD collection of the first season is just a few weeks away.

I'd flip over an Ultra HD Blu-ray release, but Disney has zero enthusiasm for home video releases of their TV series anymore.

Yeah, they are the one we're still waiting. I'm loving my UHD BDs on the samsung player, but I'd like to add the upcoming disney marvel movies to it as well (and ofcourse star wars).

 

[Trace]

If it was, it was a terrible strategy. You want to push 4k, but you omit one of the ways to get high quality 4k content?

They want to push 4K TVs, not 4K Blu-rays, seems fairly obvious. Personally if I owned a PS4 Pro I'd look into getting a 4K TV, I couldn't care less about the Blu-rays.

 

[Adam Tyner]

This reminds me i pre-ordered the steelbook of that when does it ship? later this month? next?

Should be October 3rd.

 

[Clint Beastwood]

My god, Sony apologists will go to any lengths to explain away a dumb decision.

Pretty amazing isn't it? 4K here. 4K there, 4K over there. 4K Blurays? lol who uses physical we don't need that

well except when it comes to games. People hate a digital future because they want to "own" their games. Sony's honor > ownership of products

 

[shouamabane]

They want to push 4K TVs, not 4K Blu-rays

I agree with you, but this tactic seems idiotic to me.

 

[Robot Pants]

It was a dumb decision.
Adding the UHD player would have cost nothing. And certainly wouldn't have raised the price anymore than $50. Even if it did, this thing is supposedly aimed at people that can take advantage of it, people with 4K tvs, HDR, etc. $50 bucks for an all in one machine is NOTHING. And if those people made informed decisions before they bought their tv they probably made sure they had the bandwidth to stream 4K content.
If they do have the bandwidth to stream it, guess what? THEIR TV ALREADY HAS THE 4K APPS on it.

They could have made this an all in one console and a ton of people would have been on board, and we're waiting to be on board day 1 as soon as they saw the words UHD player. I was one of them. Now I'm out and so are a lot of other people.

It was also a stupid decision because their direct competitor includes one at a lower entry point.
It could have been a nail in the coffin. Now not so much.

 

[GifGafIsTheBestGaf]

The only surprise to me of the conference tbh and while they may have the data and facts with the PS3 and OG PS4 i dont agree with them not including an 4K BR Drive with the pro

 

[ShowDog]

I think offering higher fidelity 4K games at a price point that is still competitive with the One S ($50 more at 1TB) and coming a year ahead of the Scorpio was a great strategic decision. I was honestly expecting the console to cost more than $399. By the time Scorpio is released they'll have a hell of a time price matching against the second generation PS4 Pro hardware (but maybe they won't have to if its good enough).

But for reals... how many people are going to buy a slim PS4 for only $100 less? Maybe the Mom of a 12 year old, but I see a lot of adults shopping for themselves defaulting to the better hardware when they've already decided to blow hundreds of disposable income on a videogame system. And if enough people get in on the system early it'll be damn hard for Microsoft to fight against decidedly better PS4 ports for a year with the S and then come in a year late with their own hardware after PS4 Pro has been the best thing going for a long time.

I also have a hard time seeing more than a niche amount of buyers opting to spend more money per disc on a UHD BR in 2016... I honestly don't know anyone with more than a handful of standard BR discs and the format is already past its prime. The days of your DVD collection defining your taste and interests (this was a thing 2001-2007 for twenties-something males BRO) are long over.

 

[Samanosuke Akechi]

Budget priced 4K tvs can already be found in the $400-$600 range and even Samsung and Sony 4K tvs are hovering under $1000.

I got my 2016 Samsung 4K HDR tv back in May for $900.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc...earch-shows-massive-sales-surge/#683510e615f5

 

[Bitch Pudding]

It is amazing to me that people in neogaf thinks a UHD Blu-ray player actually matters. UHD TVs barely matter as is. People don't care.

Of course it matters. Being able to offer a 4k Blu-Ray drive is better than not being able to. MS got a USP on a silver plate here.

The thing is, in the grand scheme of things 4k Blu-Ray playback isn't an important purchase driver. Like, at all. Price is. And games. And Sony excells at both. If you don't care about 4k Blu-Rays you get an almost three times more powerful console for only 50 bucks more, if we compare both 1 TB SKUs. XBOX One S cannot hold a candle to that, not even close. With or without PS4 Pro's lack of 4k Blu-Ray support. Which is still stupid.

 

[Robot Pants]

They want to push 4K TVs, not 4K Blu-rays, seems fairly obvious. Personally if I owned a PS4 Pro I'd look into getting a 4K TV, I couldn't care less about the Blu-rays.

You don't know what you're talking about. If you are gonna spend the money on a 4K tv and your plan is to not watch UHD blu Rays on it at some point and streaming 4K is just good enough, you are doing yourself a disservice.

 

[entremet]

Pull the plug on DVDs and they would right? I feel like that format is long overdue to be dropped. Can you buy a 480p TV anymore? No? Then stop making these POS DVDs!

Won't happen. DVD is still very popular and cheap to produce.

 

[outunderthestars]

Of course it matters. Being able to offer a 4k Blu-Ray drive is better than not being able to. MS got a USP on a silver plate here.

The thing is, in the grand scheme of things 4k Blu-Ray playback isn't an important purchase driver. Like, at all. Price is. And games. And Sony excells at both. If you don't care about 4k Blu-Rays you get an almost three times more powerful console for only 50 bucks more, if we compare both 1 TB SKUs. XBOX One S cannot hold a candle to that, not even close. With or without PS4 Pro's lack of 4k Blu-Ray support. Which is still stupid.

This is really the point that keeps getting lost in the controversy....

 

[Prisoner KSC2-303]

Except for the fact blu-rays sales have been on a decline over the past few years go look up the numbers at the top 100 sales of each year going back to a few years. And UHD sales are even worse not to mention the general consumer isn't adapting 4K like they were HDTV's 5,6,7,8,9 years ago. There is a reason you see such high demand for HDTV deals during black friday nobody out hobbyist cares about 4k

This has nothing to do with apologists it has to do with GAF =/= the general consumer. Companies don't focus on our demographic to sell products. More and more consumers are gravitating towards digital media like Hulu and Netflix and Prime.


This reminds me i pre-ordered the steelbook of that when does it ship? later this month? next?

The decline of Blu-ray sales has little to do with the lack of future proofing the Pro though.

UHD BDs are actually ahead of Blu-ray sales at the same point of their infancy, and 4K TVs are doing similarly in comparison to the uptake of HDTVs when they first appeared. It's a fallacy that the adoption rates are so different, people just seem to be forgetting how slow it took the Blu-ray / HD train to get going.

The streaming argument may hold some water, but the assertion that no one cares about 4K TVs or they aren't selling is just plain false.

 

[Toki767]

This is really the point that keeps getting lost in the controversy....

Hilariously a lot of people are saying the Xbox One S is a better deal. A 4K blu-ray player sure. Now try playing the majority of your games at even 1080p.

 

[Fisty]

Pretty amazing isn't it? 4K here. 4K there, 4K over there. 4K Blurays? lol who uses physical we don't need that

well except when it comes to games. People hate a digital future because they want to "own" their games. Sony's honor > ownership of products

The people "defending Sony" are merely pointing out the complete dearth of UHD Blu-Rays on the market and the prevailing trend of streaming.

 

[ghibli99]

I think the "Pro" name suggests it's a premium piece of consumer electronics, and with that comes the expectation that it would at least play UHD discs to really show off the format, especially since the XB1S can do that starting at $300. Makes you wonder what Microsoft could have done for another hundred bucks to boost the gaming side. Anyway, while 4K streaming is an option, the offerings at the moment from Netflix are slim (and the service costs extra), and disc buyers care about max bitrate, not having their HD/4K content overly compressed, and not everyone has the bandwidth/speed to support it.

For games, though, I'm really excited about it, even though I would have spent $500 for some extra horsepower.

 

[killatopak]

people wanted cheap and they got cheap. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Fisty]

Hilariously a lot of people are saying the Xbox One S is a better deal. A 4K blu-ray player sure. Now try playing the majority of your games at even 1080p.

Oh man I can't wait for the DF Face Off for BF1 this holiday. Xbox One S vs PS4 Pro.... I think those folks will be swiftly silenced lol

 

[Toki767]

I think the "Pro" name suggests it's a premium piece of consumer electronics, and with that comes the expectation that it would at least play UHD discs to really show off the format, especially since the XB1S can do that starting at $300. Makes you wonder what Microsoft could have done for another hundred bucks to boost the gaming side. Anyway, while 4K streaming is an option, the offerings at the moment from Netflix are slim (and the service costs extra), and disc buyers care about max bitrate, not having their HD/4K content overly compressed, and not everyone has the bandwidth/speed to support it.

For games, though, I'm really excited about it, even though I would have spent $500 for some extra horsepower.

All I really wonder is how much the $300 Xbox One S actually costs to make if the 2TB version is around $324 and hard drive sizes don't tend to bump up prices that much.

They have to be breaking even at best.

 

[Prisoner KSC2-303]

Hilariously a lot of people are saying the Xbox One S is a better deal. A 4K blu-ray player sure. Now try playing the majority of your games at even 1080p.

I find it interesting, in as much as we finally have some divergence from competing consoles. Both are aiming to be seen as good value propositions for those with 4K TVs, but one has the onus on media and the other gaming. I like the fact that there's a real choice, and some differentiation; I already know some non-gamers who're looking at picking up a One S because of the UHD BD compatibility.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

Oh man I can't wait for the DF Face Off for BF1 this holiday. Xbox One S vs PS4 Pro.... I think those folks will be swiftly silenced lol

Hell you could do Xbone S vs PS4 and they would still be shut up swiftly.

 

[PeregrinSe7en]

Oh man I can't wait for the DF Face Off for BF1 this holiday. Xbox One S vs PS4 Pro.... I think those folks will be swiftly silenced lol

i think some will be in denial. mental gymnastics, moving goalposts, delusion.

it'll still be there

 

[Patapwn]

It's not in the pro because 399 was a must

It's not in the slim because they can't have a feature that's not in the pro

The outrage we've seen today seems insincere for the most part. The call of 'ol Sony back' is straight up console war nonsense. All I know is that NX better have 4K BR or else! Right guys?

 

[Zok310]

Can't remember the last time I walked into a video store and picked up a disc, bluray, dvd.
On top of that if I am not using disc drive why put it in the console and over charge the folks that don't use it?

 

[Audioboxer]

It's not in the pro because 399 was a must

It's not in the slim because they can't have a feature that's not in the pro

The outrage we've seen today seems insincere for the most part. The call of 'ol Sony back' is straight up console war nonsense. All I know is that NX better have 4K BR or else! Right guys?

I like to think some sonar signaling went off today and scrambled brains and by tomorrow everything will be calm. I haven't seen console wars on GAF in ages. Everyone was relatively getting along and creating random gaming topics... Then today and shit goes mental. Maybe having Apple and Sony on the same day was just too much. Everyone needs a good sleep.

Sweet dreams of UHD and headphone jacks.

 

[Robot Pants]

Can't remember the last time I walked into a video store and picked up a disc, bluray, dvd.
On top of that if I am not using disc drive why put it in the console and over charge the folks that don't use it?

Do you own a 4K tv?

 

[ReBurn]

The people "defending Sony" are merely pointing out the complete dearth of UHD Blu-Rays on the market and the prevailing trend of streaming.

There is not a complete dearth. Practically every major theatrical release this year is getting a 4K Blu-Ray release. On top of that, many classics are also slated to be released this year on 4K Blu-Ray. So availability is steadily growing and will continue to do so.

 

[Toki767]

There is not a complete dearth. Practically every major theatrical release this year is getting a 4K Blu-Ray release. On top of that, many classics are also slated to be released this year on 4K Blu-Ray. So availability is steadily growing and will continue to do so.

Everything the past couple years were getting 3D blu-ray releases.

Barely any companies even make 3DTVs anymore.

It's understandable for Sony to be hesitant about a new format.

 

[ReBurn]

Everything the past couple years were getting 3D blu-ray releases.

Barely any companies even make 3DTVs anymore.

It's understandable for Sony to be hesitant about a new format.

Hesitant about a format that they helped create as part of the Blu-Ray consortium?

And how does 4K compare to 3D exactly? That doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Branduil]

Of course it's strategic. In the same way putting a bluray in PS3 was strategic.

The strategy is the mainstream market watch movies streamed, a UHD player is not a factor.

I think its something they learnt from the early PS3 sales.

Mainstream market isn't buying a Pro, period. The Pro can only sell by appealing to the videophile niche.

 

[shouamabane]

The outrage we've seen today seems insincere for the most part.

Not from me.