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[Henry Jones Jr]

I was really looking forward to the Neo and I am probably still going to get one. BUT the lack of a UHD drive has blown me away. Really stupid decision on their part. I'm still hoping they will come out and say that it actually does have the drive and they just screwed up the messaging.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

My god, Sony apologists will go to any lengths to explain away a dumb decision.

I'm beginning to think that Sony are geniuses. Puts tin foil cap on, imagine...


Even after basically pioneering it Sony are planning on ditching Blu Ray all together in favor of compressed streaming methods, because they know people love settling for less.

So, they put up a front and make it seem like they are supporting UHD Blu Ray in a gamble to make other companies plan and invest in jumping all in because they, along with everyone else, think that Sony are about to yet again pioneer the next evolution of the Blu Ray format with UHD.

They even reveal plans for a stand alone UHD 4K Blu Ray player and decide to invest in more 4K content than anyone else in the form of their movies.

Sony reveal the "PS4K." The masses hear 4K and get hyped.

People start buying UHD 4K capable TV's. Many of them from Sony's own line.

They reveal the Playstation Pro sans UHD player after they know that certain companies have started to show their hand in UHD support.

Sony knows that they can get away with nearly anything after all the goodwill that they have garnered and that their very large and loyal fan base will start to tear apart UHD physical media at all costs in order to downplay the missing feature.

Fast forward a year or two and UHD Blu Ray has crashed and burned and the other companies who had invested in it have been left hurt by the fall. Sony reigns supreme.

The consumers begin the waiting process all over again yearning for Sony to extend the next teet from which they can suckle.

-End Scene-

 

[family_guy]

You are assuming they use the same exact drive which probably isn't the case. The drive for the Xbox one is probably larger than what the ps4 uses.

I said, "Not everything is created equal." I'm just using the price increase from the Xbox One to the XBox One S as a reference for what it may cost Sony. Could be more. Could be less. However removing the option completely just to have a console at a $399 price point when it's advertised as a premium/pro option to begin with is just stupid. Early adopters would have had no problem paying the difference. A year from now it will cost even less.

 

[EatinOlives]

But they're not necessarily selling it as an entertainment machine. They're selling it as a gaming machine.

Tomayto Tomahto. It's a multimedia entertainment machine by sheer virtue of the fact that it reads Blu-rays, has an exclusivity deal with Spotify, has apps for nearly every TV streaming service under the sun, is the best hardware to run PS Vue on, the list goes on.

It's a multimedia machine, and they're selling a Pro version of it outing 4k. It needs to have UHD. It's as simple as that.

 

[wbEMX]

So your primary reason to invest in a gaming console is to watch UHD movies through physical media?

I use consoles as my main media centers, yes. Of course I also play on the systems, but I'm not a fan of buying seperate players for everything. I like the all-in-one approach consoles usually have.

 

[ClearData]

Then why don't they include the best quality way to experience that content? Blurays remain leagues better than compressed streams from all services. Even buying video content on the PlayStation Store is buying the licence to stream it; not download it and keep a copy.

That's my point. They said they want you to enjoy that 4K TV yet the option to play the best quality content off of disk is not given. Which is odd. Was it a cost saving move? Was it so they could push streaming services? I don't know, but I suspect it was the latter. Adding a Blu-ray UHD drive on a Pro grade device doesn't seem too costly and a lot felt it was expected considering the One S touts one.

 

[Fortuneelsewhere]

I'm still in shock about one of the most dumb and stupid decisions in years from Sony... Unbelievable no UHD disk drive...

"Look guys my premium console with no premium features..."

 

[Guevara]

At first I was upset, then I realized I haven't bought a non-game disc in years.

 

[Toki767]

This. You'd have people complaining the Pro was $449 rather $399 the other way too. There's no winning unless they were able to squeeze a UHD drive in at the same $399.

To be fair, the way HDD pricing is, a lot of people probably think they could have squeezed one in if the HDD was 500GB.

 

[Equanimity]

I use consoles as my main media centers, yes. Of course I also play on the systems, but I'm not a fan of buying seperate players for everything. I like the all-in-one approach consoles usually have.

If physical UHD media is more important than a good quality gaming experience, Xbox One is the device for you.

 

[x3sphere]

Not really. Remember how the PS3 was so expensive because of the BR drive and backwards compatibility? I think they were trying to avoid that again. A $400 price point for an upgraded console is a bit easier to swallow than something more.

PS3 was expensive for a multitude of reasons - in addition to the Blu-ray drive it used mostly all custom parts and competed with high end PCs at the time.

IMHO, it feels like Sony is setting things up to position the Pro as the base model at some point with a revision, and then bring out an even higher end console to compete with Scorpio. PS4 Pro may be replaced quite quickly.

 

[icespide]

If physical UHD media is more important than a good quality gaming experience, Xbox One is the device for you.

zing

 

[wapplew]

I don't know, what else can they cut to hit $399?
They must have go through a lot of decision making to reach this result. I'm sure most of us here won't mind paying a little extra for the feature. But if their market researcher told them $399 is more important then so be it.

 

[DangerMouse]

I said, "Not everything is created equal." I'm just using the price increase from the Xbox One to the XBox One S as a reference for what it may cost Sony. Could be more. Could be less. However removing the option completely just to have a console at a $399 price point when it's advertised as a premium/pro option to begin with is just stupid. Early adopters would have had no problem paying the difference. A year from now it will cost even less.

To be fair, a year from now, since it won't effect the gaming side of the console at all unlike with PS3 where the move to BD also effected how PS3 games shipped and some, especially first party (or FFXIII with real 1080p video for the cutscenes), even used the space for actual game content and better graphics/textures (games for the Pro are the same copies as PS4 so standard BDs), they could probably sell a UHD equipped pro next year when Scorpio comes out, since it won't split the userbase lol. They probably won't though since I imagine they'll want to undercut the price by having been out for a full year earlier the way the 360 did.

 

[robertsan21]

Personally I dont buy discs and have not since the early days of Blu Ray.

The future is streaming/ digital copy.

 

[outunderthestars]

If physical UHD media is more important than a good quality gaming experience, Xbox One is the device for you.

Boom. And you can get a great deal on one as MS is still struggling to generate demand for the systems as nobody really cares about UHD movies.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

I think they left UHD drive out of the PS4 Pro to make the PS5 look a little more enticing. Still, makes no sense though.

 

[Portugeezer]

Luckily, there's a product for people who want UHD, it's called Xbox One.

Announce a premium console without premium features?

That's one approach.

 

[PeregrinSe7en]

i remember when people were saying Sony were stupid for including a br drive in the ps3, now they're stupid for not including a physical format feature in the pro.

it's not a dealbreaker, at all.

it's a games machine first and foremost. there are other options for watching non gaming 4k content.

ps, major nelson is an idiot

 

[Henry Jones Jr]

At first I was upset, then I realized I haven't bought a non-game disc in years.

This is why I will likely still one. But it would still be nice to have the option to see some non-compressed 4K movies. I would likely buy one just to see how they look on my TV.

 

[Bsigg12]

Personally I dont buy discs and have not since the early days of Blu Ray.

The future is streaming/ digital copy.

Sure if you want to be locked into shit bit rates. 4K Netflix looks like a 1080p Bluray. 4K HDR blurays are a huge leap in quality.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

If physical UHD media is more important than a good quality gaming experience, Xbox One is the device for you.

TIL: A good quality gaming experience cannot be had on an XB1S.

 

[wbEMX]

If physical UHD media is more important than a good quality gaming experience, Xbox One is the device for you.

This just sounds extremely salty.

Look, I already own a powerful PC and a PS4 and I love both. But, there is literally no reason for me to get the Pro with the UHD drive missing, while the XBONE is still missing in my collection.

My internet is shit and even if it was better just Netflix would be not as good, especially because I can't get very recent movies in UHD there. So yeah, actually having physical media for movies is pretty fucking important for me as someone who takes up a lot of his time to enjoy movies, while having crappy internet. Big shocker, I know.

 

[Mango Positive]

UHD is hampered by the premium content providers put on it. It's $30 for a UHD Blu Ray and $15 (if you're lucky) for the UHD digital code (sold in the second-hand market, which probably won't work on your streaming service of choice). When they set this premium, they didn't seem to realize that streaming 1080P movies look AMAZE-BALLS on a good 4K tv with upscaling. I never use my expensive UHD Blu Ray player. I wish I didn't buy it (you wanna buy it from me?).

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

If physical UHD media is more important than a good quality gaming experience, Xbox One is the device for you.

Crazy part is, for some reason most people use their XBox Ones and PS4's for Netflix and Blu Ray movie watching more than gaming. I think a lot of consumers purchase these console to just to watch movies, so Microsoft probably of made the right choice by including UHD disc drive for certain folks looking to make the best out of their 4K HDTV's. On the other hand though, I think physical media is being overtaken by digital services and imo Blu Ray movies are a expensive for what you are getting. Still, I think having the option is nice to have.

 

[Boss Man]

I mean, yeah it was strategic but the strategy was more like "we have to sell the console at price X and this functionality will cost us more money than not including it. they wont care too much"

 

[ClearData]

If physical UHD media is more important than a good quality gaming experience, Xbox One is the device for you.

That doesn't help. Quality gaming can be had on both. But for the consumer that both wanted a PlayStation and a UHD player in a premium device it's okay to be disappointed.

 

[icespide]

Crazy part is, for some reason most people use their XBox Ones and PS4's for Netflix and Blu Ray movie watching more than gaming. I think a lot of consumers purchase these console to watch movies more than gaming. Microsoft probably of made the right choice by including UHD disc drive.

you got anything to back up that claim?

 

[EmiPrime]

Crazy part is, for some reason most people use their XBox Ones and PS4's for Netflix and Blu Ray movie watching more than gaming. I think a lot of consumers purchase these console to watch movies more than gaming. Microsoft probably of made the right choice by including UHD disc drive.

Citation needed.

 

[Kwansu Dudes]

Is there a figure or percentage for the number of people who use Blu-ray vs UHD? I think it was odd to exclude it considering this is a 4K machine, but I'm not paying an extra $50 for something I'd rarely ever use.

 

[boredandlazy]

is someone whose default reaction to a corporations decision is not outrage automatically considered an apologist?

There's a difference between a lack of outrage and being completely dimlsmissive of the people this negatively affects.

 

[Samanosuke Akechi]

Wasn't there a rumor from someone saying Sony were considering two models, one which was the pro, and another at a higher price and more features, but only one would get approved for sale?

They must have left the higher priced option with a 4K player on the table and went for a more bare bones offering to keep costs down.

 

[SenkiDala]

Maybe because of that:

https://www.avforums.com/threads/dvd-and-blu-ray-sales-statistics.2004986/

People don't buy Blurays. So UHD BRs...

OK for the "but they're saving just 15$ with that", yeah, but just 15$x1 million =... Yeah, that's not so little.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

you got anything to back up that claim?

If I remember correctly, Polygon had an article saying hat 54% of console owners use their consoles as a movie player or movie streaming service. Friends list also? Feedback from people.? Just an observation on all of my systems during the years.

 

[MazeHaze]

i remember when people were saying Sony were stupid for including a br drive in the ps3, now they're stupid for not including a physical format feature in the pro.

it's not a dealbreaker, at all.

it's a games machine first and foremost. there are other options for watching non gaming 4k content.

ps, major nelson is an idiot

Except it is a deal breaker for some people?

 

[Zaki2407]

UHD Blu-Ray? hah, even a standard Blu-Ray disc is hard to find in my country. We even still sells VCDs here lol....

 

[hwalker84]

Pure money saving. There is no grand conspiracy. It's all about the bottomline.

 

[Fuchsdh]

PS3 was expensive for a multitude of reasons - in addition to the Blu-ray drive it used mostly all custom parts and competed with high end PCs at the time.

IMHO, it feels like Sony is setting things up to position the Pro as the base model at some point with a revision, and then bring out an even higher end console to compete with Scorpio. PS4 Pro may be replaced quite quickly.

That seems like a bad idea (although who knows if they feel pressured to do so.) It takes a lot of time and money to design, tool up, prep and launch products. If the PS4 Pro isn't going to compete with Scorpio and they're going to come out with something to compete, why did they bother releasing it?

Seems like an unforced error if that's the case, although I doubt it's going to swing the pendulum much... I suppose it's possible US goes back to being firmly in Xbox's favor, but PS4 built up a substantial lead overseas I don't see any reason they felt they were threatened and had to produce another console right away.

 

[ClearData]

Maybe because of that:



https://www.avforums.com/threads/dvd-and-blu-ray-sales-statistics.2004986/

People don't buy Blurays. So UHD BRs...

OK for the "but they're saving just 15$ with that", yeah, but just 15$x1 million =... Yeah, that's not so little.

I see your point. But this is data from one country which you are extrapolating to the entire worldwide market?

 

[SenkiDala]

UHD Blu-Ray? hah, even a standard Blu-Ray disc is hard to find in my country. We even still sells VCDs here lol....

I dunno what is your country, but here in France (which is not a "little country", economicaly I mean), there's less than 50 UHD BR availaible... I mean, people don't care... Of course I don't mean EVERYBODY but it's really not a lot of people who are interested in it.

 

[Toki767]

As of June 24, 2016 the total amount of UHD blu-ray movies that have been sold? A grand total of 228K

Is it still kind of silly that Sony didn't include a UHD blu-ray player? Yes.

Can I see why they didn't? Yes.

 

[mcrommert]

My god, Sony apologists will go to any lengths to explain away a dumb decision.

No one buys blurays brah...especially those who just unloaded a bunch on a 4k tv and need some content for it

 

[Samanosuke Akechi]

Funny. I see lots of Gamers hating Nintendo for not including DVD/blu Ray drives in their consoles but gamers are defending Sony for not including a 4K player lol

Crazy.

 

[InsaneTiger]

The average buyer doesn't buy Blu ray let alone 4K discs. Streaming is the now and the future. I hardly rent or buy movies and for me standard Blu Ray is fine.

However, I do find the exclusion of the UHD drive baffling.

 

[tekumseh]

I'm not bothered by the decision in the least. It's a developing market, but extremely small, and the lack of serious market movement towards Blu-Ray likely influenced the decision. The technology turnover is moving far faster than most of the market is ready for, or are able, or willing, to afford...

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

PS3 was expensive for a multitude of reasons - in addition to the Blu-ray drive it used mostly all custom parts and competed with high end PCs at the time.

IMHO, it feels like Sony is setting things up to position the Pro as the base model at some point with a revision, and then bring out an even higher end console to compete with Scorpio. PS4 Pro may be replaced quite quickly.

That would be a terrible idea. Bad enough that a new PS4 is coming out barely 3 years after the PS4 especially for late adopters, but another "enhanced" revision would probably upset many gamers who purchased a PS4 Pro thinking that was as good as it gets until the PS5. Imo, they should of probably delayed the PS4 Pro until next year and made it more comparable to the Scorpio, while the PS4 Slim should of been built closer to the XBox One Slim specification-wise.

 

[family_guy]

Maybe because of that:



https://www.avforums.com/threads/dvd-and-blu-ray-sales-statistics.2004986/

People don't buy Blurays. So UHD BRs...

OK for the "but they're saving just 15$ with that", yeah, but just 15$x1 million =... Yeah, that's not so little.

Pull the plug on DVDs and they would right? I feel like that format is long overdue to be dropped. Can you buy a 480p TV anymore? No? Then stop making these POS DVDs!

 

[SenkiDala]

I see your point. But this is data from one country which you are extrapolating to the entire worldwide market?

I made this research in 2 minutes (it's late here ) but I always heard that BRs are not selling, at least in Europe (dunno about USA) maybe it's because here in a lot of countries there's no data limit like in USA (it's what I heard) so VOD is perfectly fine here? I dunno.

What I mean is blurays are not selling, I'm not defending Sony, I don't care, but I think this "wtf no UHD player!" is getting too far compared to what this market represent. I'm sure that at least 60 to 70% complaining about it don't even have a 4K TV... But it's internet, it's how things goes down here.

If the "horse power boost" of the PS4 Pro was little, if there was nothing for 1080p TVs owners (like no options to put games in 1080p60 or 1080p30+ max settings), I'd understand, it would be huge, but no 4K BR player for me (and people who I talked to) is so meaningless...

I understand the dissapoinment of people who really have a 4K TV, and planned to buy 4K BRs though.

 

[Arklite]

As of June 24, 2016 the total amount of UHD blu-ray movies that have been sold? A grand total of 228K

Is it still kind of silly that Sony didn't include a UHD blu-ray player? Yes.

Can I see why they didn't? Yes.

The decision can make some sense but it's also hard to know if it was the best choice considering this is plainly a case of not giving consumers what they wished for.

 

[DangerMouse]

To be fair, the way HDD pricing is, a lot of people probably think they could have squeezed one in if the HDD was 500GB.

Heh.

Also it actually might even have had to be $499 or higher to put a UHD BD in since the gaming hardware itself has 3x the specs of the old (even before a UHD drive) and obviously a UHD BD drive is not just $50 (standalones are still $300+ and some companies still haven't released theirs yet, some of which I think were targeting 400+ still). There's no way to know how much of a price increase the drive would have been, but it obviously would have raised the price over $399.