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[Phyranion]

There is no convincing (some) Clinton supporters either. Generally it's hard to convince people to change their political stance.

 

[Neo C.]

Why you think you're right, even if you're wrong.

Essentially, there are way more soldiers than scouts.

 

[SaviourMK2]

At this point, they're not worth saving.
If nothing he has said and done this entire election hasn't convinced you he is the worst choice imaginable? Then you're a lost cause.

I have no more tolerance for stupid

 

[Mr. Giggles]

Lots of people also can't stand the fact that a woman might become president.

So the mental gymnastics are even more Olympian

 

[ArjanN]

Honestly almost no-one is going to change their mind on the spot during a heated argument. IMO it's generally better to settle for just planting a seed of doubt, as most people's ego won't let them 'lose' an argument, and they'll just resort to keep moving goalposts or making disingenuous arguments or personal attacks to avoid doing so.

With Trump I assume there's a also a bunch of people who just don't want to admit their real motivation is that they're kinda racist, or 'fuck you, got mine'.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

There is no convincing (some) Clinton supporters either. Generally it's hard to convince people to change their political stance.

You're equating the two, which is disingenuous at best.

 

[Deleted member 125677]

People: Voting is a sacred duty.
Other People: I know, right? I'm voting for this guy.
People: Nuh uh, vote for who I'm voting for, because reason a) and reason b) etc.
Other People: No. Because reason a), reason b) etc

Yes, isn't this more or less (with the small additions I added) how public discourse in a civil society in a democracy, or on a discussion forum, is supposed to work?

If you're upset that your position is being met with counter arguments on a discussion forum you're probably not in the right place.

 

[Krejlooc]

There is no convincing (some) Clinton supporters either. Generally it's hard to convince people to change their political stance.

Lots and lots of Clinton supporters are supporting her by default, now. Plenty of people, myself included, wanted other candidates to win the nomination. It's not true to say that Clinton supporters are die hards who wanted her from day 1, as though their political positions have been set in stone.

By contrast, I suspect much of Trump's support were with him from the moment he started.

 

[mid83]

By contrast, I suspect much of Trump's support were with him from the moment he started.

I don't think that's true at all. Yes, he has a core group that has been with him from the start, but for the reasons I listed in a long post on the previous page, there are a lot of people who are holding their nose but supporting him for stuff like Supreme Court justices or "anybody but Hillary".

By the way, before I get attacked, I'm not voting for Trump

 

[Bleepey]

Why you think you're right, even if you're wrong.

Essentially, there are way more soldiers than scouts.

Interesting talk, not pertinent to the video and I know it should not be brought up, but the speaker is distractingly pretty.

 

[Corto]

Some people are so invested in a particular world view, a specific angle or issue, that they'll prioritise different issues than others. I firmly believe though that in optimal conditions, a free trade of ideas will lead to better outcomes. At least I hope so in this election case.

 

[DeathyBoy]

Yes, isn't this more or less (with the small additions I added) how public discourse in a civil society in a democracy, or on a discussion forum, is supposed to work?

If you're upset that your position is being met with counter arguments on a discussion forum you're probably not in the right place.

I don't think people imagined democracy would work via people setting up bait threads to attack people "stupid enough" to vote differently to them.

Political debate is fine. This is less that and more "voting for Trump? You're an idiot." Which isn't a debate, it's a declarative systems, a blog post, a troll tactic. And adds to the many Trump threads, which at this point dominate OP.

The guys an absolute idiot, but it's really getting to overkill levels at this point.

 

[Krejlooc]

I don't think people imagined democracy would work via people setting up bait threads to attack people "stupid enough" to vote differently to them.

What you are describing predates american democracy.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

People: Voting is a sacred duty.
Other People: I know, right? I'm voting for this guy who could become the next Hitler.
People: Nuh uh, vote for who I'm voting for.
Other People: No.

Fixed. Both sides though.

 

[Dinokill]

So that's the black guy voting for him, huh?

 

[br0ken_shad0w]

Lots and lots of Clinton supporters are supporting her by default, now. Plenty of people, myself included, wanted other candidates to win the nomination. It's not true to say that Clinton supporters are die hards who wanted her from day 1, as though their political positions have been set in stone.

By contrast, I suspect much of Trump's support were with him from the moment he started.

I do think a lot of Trump support is due to (R) label and general ignorance or tolerating his policies rather than actual support for his veiled racism and white supremacy.

Political debate is fine. This is less that and more "voting for Trump? You're an idiot." Which isn't a debate, it's a declarative systems, a blog post, a troll tactic. And adds to the many Trump threads, which at this point dominate OP.

The guys an absolute idiot, but it's really getting to overkill levels at this point.

When even those defending Trump (not necessarily supporting or voting for him) basically start their arguments with "Trump is an idiot but..." those arguments are lost causes right from the start.

 

[Ekai]

I'm a moderate Republican (I'm probably becoming a moderate independent at this point if Drumpf is the future of the party) who will not be voting for Drumpf. I was going to vote Johnson, but he's so crazy at that it's either Hillary or abstaining the Presidential race and voting in my local elections.

In any case, I live in a red state and know tons of Drumpf supporters. I've had in depth conversations over why I won't support him (and I've lost a friend over it sadly enough), so I'll give my thoughts on why many people support him.

Only a handful of people I know are the crazy committed ones that most of you think of regarding his support. You know the ones that want to kick out all the Mexicans and Muslims and so on. Not every Drumpf supporter, or even anywhere close to a majority, falls into this camp as many seem to believe.

Otherwise, most of his supporters I know are lukewarm towards him at best. Many even openly despise or dislike him. Still, it seems like one of the four main reasons below are why these people are holding their nose and voting for Drumpf despite his negativity.

1.) People who only care about the R or D

2.) Supreme Court - There is lots of fear of the court being stacked heavily to the left for decades. Obviously most here want that, but for those who aren't happy with the prospect of a heavily liberal court are willing to vote for him no matter what. This especially holds true out of fear that a heavily left wing court will significantly change how the 2nd admendmenf is interpreted. Again I know that would be a reason for why many here would vote for Hillary.

3.) NeverHillary - This is the biggest one in my opinion. Many Drumpf supporters are on board to prevent a Hillary presidency. In some cases it's just pure policy/ideology. In most cases it's about her honesty, character and rumblings of corruption issues. We all know Drumpf has the same issues, but the pushback I get when I say this is "Hillary has abused her power and lied in positions of power in the government". It seems like the general view is Hillary is above the law, so they will vote for Drumpf no matter what to keep her out.

4.) Immigration - Amazingly enough, the few I know who support him for this aren't even in favor of walls or mass deportations despite those issues being a key part of the campaign. These folks feel that Drumpf is a better choice vs Hillary who many see as a pure open borders candidate.

Again these are reasons why I feel people are supporting Drumpf despite his antics and offensive/racist language based on friends and family who I've talked to (in most cases my attempt to talk them out of it) regarding why they support Drumpf. I'm not your typically GAF poster in terms of politics so I figured I'd give you a little bit of a different viewpoint.

Remember, I'm not voting for him so I don't necessarily believe with the points above.

I appreciate your input.

To respond to the point 2ers in particular: As a minority, I am terrified for my life and the lives of my loved ones if the SC goes to the right. The fact they value a hobby and the lies spewed by right-wing media about how people "want to take away your guns" over what the facts are in regards to that issue and more importantly the lives of fellow Americans just sickens me. Though many on the right seem to want to deprive me of my humanity in the first place so I suppose it makes sense. It's just plain disturbing. Millions of peoples futures ride on Democrats winning. If all they're worried about is the lies/fear-mongering regarding guns/a hobby, I get the feeling they need some massive perspective changers.

 

[EmSeta]

Okay, but to all Hillary voters: think about what you would need to change your mind and not vote for her this election. We all have predetermined views of "our" candidate versus the other, views that aren't going to be changed throughout a single conversation.

The fact-free political tribalism is at an all time high this election, and this time, its infected the democrats as well.

FWIW, I'm squarely in the Hillary camp. But I also think it's important to at least try to think outside of the tribalist bubble.

In this case for example, what could that guy possibly have been able to say about Hillary for you to vote for Trump? Probably nothing. So you can't expect him to go into the conversation with a much more open mind.

 

[EmSeta]

There is no convincing (some) Clinton supporters either. Generally it's hard to convince people to change their political stance.

That's way more succinct than my rambling post.

 

[Ekai]

Okay, but to all Hillary voters: think about what you would need to change your mind and not vote for her this election. We all have predetermined views of "our" candidate versus the other, views that aren't going to be changed throughout a single conversation.

The fact-free political tribalism is at an all time high this election, and this time, its infected the democrats as well.

FWIW, I'm squarely in the Hillary camp. But I also think it's important to at least try to think outside of the tribalist bubble.

In this case for example, what could that guy possibly have been able to say about Hillary for you to vote for Drumpf? Probably nothing. So you can't expect him to feel differently.

I have had my criticisms of Hillary and the Democrats for quite some time. But they align closet to my views. And I'm not going to throw my vote away on something that doesn't win/doesn't change minds anyway. Not to mention the current 3rd parties in America don't align with my views either.

On top of that with the SC on the line, nothing would ever change my view on this matter. My very life depends on preventing Republicans from gaining controlling of the SC. I would never vote R. In this or frankly speaking any other race. They're way too far-right wing.

 

[Ushojax]

It's very hard to change anyone's mind on anything and it's almost impossible when the person lacks critical thinking skills or empathy. With a lot of people, pointing out hypocrisy/falsehoods only makes them double-down on it.

 

[EmSeta]

I have had my criticisms of Hillary and the Democrats for quite some time. But they align closet to my views. And I'm not going to throw my vote away on something that doesn't win/doesn't change minds anyway. Not to mention the current 3rd parties in America don't align with my views either.

On top of that with the SC on the line, nothing would ever change my view on this matter. My very life depends on preventing Republicans from gaining controlling of the SC. I would never vote R. In this or frankly speaking any other race. They're way too far-right wing.

Well that's sort of how I feel too. But some people feel differently, and won't be swayed by the same arguments as us.

People are different. But judging from a lot of GAF threads, anyone leaning conservative is a racist monster seeking to destroy anyone who doesn't look like them.

 

[commedieu]

This is why trump has it in the bag. There isn't going to be recorded minority turnout. I'm shocked at the number of black people that hate her and are voting third.

Unless the Latino community saves us, the black community isn't going to show. For understandable reasons. But letting the Republicans take the supreme court is really going to hurt for generations.

You've got a literal party of hate, endorsed by the American kkk party with a plan of building walls and profiling people like israel.

And it's a close election. Americans deserve what's going to happen.

 

[Prologue]

Some of them claim that Trump just says "mean things", but Clinton is worse because she "has blood" on her hands for Benghazi, and has "escaped justice" for the emails. She's a murderer, a criminal, a liar, a thief, who has gotten away with everything because she's a Clinton. It's funny, she has got to be the greatest criminal mastermind to ever exist, getting away with all of that.

So there is no convincing some of those people. Anything negative about Clinton? Post it on Facebook and show people how bad she is. Negative problem with Trump? Don't post a thing, or compare with what Clinton has "done", and notice how worse it apparently is on her side. It's sad to see, many of these are people my age.

Voting for Trump because you've voted "R" your entire life is more excuse-worthy than voting for Trump because "Clinton is a criminal who has gotten away with everything, and must be stopped". Voting for Trump because "I wanna see a shake-up in the system" clearly shows the lack of thought, considering how Trump is the most unqualified candidate running the highest office in the country. Voting for Trump because they want a conservative justice clearly shows the more selfish side of the American people, they clearly don't seem to care about the freedom of others, as long as they're okay.

But we have people like Hillary, Obama, Bush, Ted and Marco. These people are always pointing fingers at each other like their shit doesn't stink. Hillary with her totalitarian like qualities and her aggressive military mindset. Obama and his fun skirmishes with drones in the name of peace. Don't even get me started on Bush and his war crimes. Ted, the person who thinks he's god's gift to mankind and Marco, who doesn't think much of anything despite the responsibilities on his shoulders. How many innocent families did these people kill in the name of "peace" and "religion"?

Throw in a racist and a bigot, everyone starts losing their minds. This is what happens when years of corruption and public dissatisfaction go unchecked. You have someone like Trump that rises above the festering anger. There a reason why he's doing as well as he is. I'll vote for Hillary for the sake of the supreme court, but the whole system and even the country needs a rude awakening. And if that ends up being Trump, so be it.

 

[RPGCrazied]

Hillary was right about the deplorable comment, and someone else said Trump was beyond repair, just like his supporters. They are gone, no amount of facts is going to change. They are literally brainwashed.

 

[Ekai]

Well that's sort of how I feel too. But some people feel differently, and won't be swayed by the same arguments as us.

People are different. But judging from a lot of GAF threads, anyone leaning conservative is a racist monster seeking to destroy anyone who doesn't look like them.

I don't have a very high view of conservatives/Republicans, to be perfectly honest. For a great many reasons. I am open to learning why they are the way they are, and I sometimes foolishly would like to believe some can change if they stop eating the lies/fear-mongering of right-wing media. But personal experiences with anyone right-leaning have all been awful. As is what I see of them in the media. Their own media and others, to be frank. Not to mention their policy positions are often diametrically opposed to my views/my livelihood.

 

[commedieu]

But we have people like Hillary, Obama, Bush, Ted and Marco. These people are always pointing fingers at each other like their shit doesn't stink. Hillary with her totalitarian like qualities and her aggressive military mindset. Obama and his fun skirmishes with drones in the name of peace. Don't even get me started on Bush and his war crimes. Ted, the person who thinks he's god's gift to mankind and Marco, who doesn't think much of anything despite the responsibilities on his shoulders. How many innocent families did these people kill in the name of "peace" and "religion"?

Throw in a racist and a bigot, everyone starts losing their minds. This is what happens when years of corruption and public dissatisfaction go unchecked. You have someone like Trump that rises above the festering anger. There a reason why he's doing as well as he is. I'll vote for Hillary for the sake of the supreme court, but the whole system and even the country needs a rude awakening. And if that ends up being Trump, so be it.

Be intellectually honest with your words.


If it ends up being a fascist with a racist/bigoted base, so be it.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

Heh..Sound advice.

 

[-COOLIO-]

rather than focusing on the character of trump, i would have just asked him what this thoughts on specific issues were and tell him whether he aligns more with trump or hillary.

 

[maquiladora]

Spoke to a Trump supporter yesterday who isn't even from the US. This is an otherwise perfectly ordinary and seemingly intelligent and nice person except when the topic of politics comes up...

His opinions in a nutshell

- Clinton assassinates people to hide her email secrets
- Obama orders the US military to support ISIS
- "Ok, I am racist against Muslims"
- Brexit was awesome
- Putin is god

 

[DietRob]

This is why trump has it in the bag. There isn't going to be recorded minority turnout. I'm shocked at the number of black people that hate her and are voting third.

Unless the Latino community saves us, the black community isn't going to show. For understandable reasons. But letting the Republicans take the supreme court is really going to hurt for generations.

You've got a literal party of hate, endorsed by the American kkk party with a plan of building walls and profiling people like israel.

And it's a close election. Americans deserve what's going to happen.

I fully believe that once again black women will be the savior our country doesn't deserve.

 

[atr0cious]

There is no convincing (some) Clinton supporters either. Generally it's hard to convince people to change their political stance.

"Why are you voting clinton? Why won't you vote for white supremacy?"

Yeah totally the same thing.

 

[commedieu]

I fully believe that once again black women will be the savior our country doesn't deserve.

I really hope so. I mean these are just anecdotes but it seems so common sense on gaf. Outside in the real world, nope. I feel like I know more about Hillary's dirt than most. But the loss of the court is something I can't swallow.

Speaking of Oprah though......


She's got Hillary's back right?

 

[EmSeta]

"Why are you voting clinton? Why won't you vote for white supremacy?"

Yeah totally the same thing.

Go back and read mid83'a post. "White supremacy" is not the reasoning of most Trump voters. The guy in the OP wasn't even white to begin with.

This talking point / meme is getting stale, and like all talking points, it's just an attempt to explain a complex phenomenon with a simple buzzword.

 

[Shalashaska]

Let’s dispel with this fiction that Donald Trump doesn’t know what he’s doing. He knows exactly what he’s doing.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

My experience has basically been that every website that says anything bad about Trump is biased and cant be trusted (unless they say something bad about hillary of course, thats the only time you can trust them)

And when confronted with video evidence they fall back on "But hillary".

 

[Banana Aeon]

In this case for example, what could that guy possibly have been able to say about Hillary for you to vote for Trump? Probably nothing. So you can't expect him to go into the conversation with a much more open mind.

Well, I'm black, so there is nothing that can convince me to vote for Trump.

 

[Noirulus]

I fully believe that once again black women will be the savior our country doesn't deserve.

Like her?

 

[Morrigan Stark]

But some people feel differently

That's a nice euphemism for being a racist and a bigot.

This whole notion that all political opinions and ideas should be treated as equally valid needs to die out already. There's a reason the KKK is shunned.

 

[EmSeta]

That's a nice euphemism for being a racist and a bigot.

This whole notion that all political opinions and ideas should be treated as equally valid needs to die out already. There's a reason the KKK is shunned.

Yes, but painting every republican or conservative as racists and bigots isn't helpful. Most racists are republicans, but most republicans aren't racists.

 

[Mahonay]

Man I'm happy I love in Brooklyn and don't have to put up with Trump supporters. We all just share in our terror and disbelief in what's going on.

 

[EmSeta]

Well, I'm black, so there is nothing that can convince me to vote for Trump.

That makes no sense. If you're black it's impossible to vote for Trump? What about the guy in the OP?

Obviously your skin color isn't the reason for your political leanings. That's a pretty racist implication.

 

[Mahonay]

That makes no sense. If you're black it's impossible to vote for Trump? What about the guy in the OP?

Obviously your skin color isn't the reason for your political leanings. That's a pretty racist implication.

Lol what?

Trump is running on a racist platform, who's supporters are often feverishly racist themselves. The same group that is all aboard #AllLivesMatter. No, it really doesn't make sense for a black person to be voting Trump.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Like her?

What an odd response to what he said..odd..

 

[EmSeta]

Lol what?

Trump is running on a racist platform, who's supporters are often feverishly racist themselves. The same group that is all aboard #AllLivesMatter. No, it really doesn't make sense for a black person to be voting Trump.

Republicans have been voting against their interests for decades. But a black person can't be convinced to vote for Trump? (apparently some of them can)

People weigh things differently. Not everyone votes according to identity. There are black people voting for Trump - and I'm sure there are even racists voting for Clinton as well.

 

[Mahonay]

Republicans have been voting against their interests for decades. But a black person can't be convinced to vote for Trump? (apparently some of them can)

Trump is openly racist as opposed to some Republican candidates in the past who were passive about it. This is very different.

Yes there are SOME black people who are behind Trump, but that number is literally about .01%, and those who are voting for him have real issues with race themselves.

Suggesting there is any kind of meaningful black contingent behind Trump is 100 percent false. It's rare.

 

[Noirulus]

What an odd response to what he said..odd..

My point is that not all black women (such as the woman in the video) will support Hillary, especially when she's vocalized her hatred for black people in the past.

 

[Mahonay]

My point is that not all black women (such as the woman in the video) will support Hillary, especially when she's vocalized her hatred for black people in the past.

An incredibly large majority will vote for Hillary.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

My point is that not all black women (such as the woman in the video) will support Hillary, especially when she's vocalized her hatred for black people in the past.

Got it..😕

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Why would you even attempt to discuss these matters with a black Trump supporter. (S)he is already special. You have to be on some Stacy Dash levels of ignorance or Ben Carson levels of self-hate to support his platform and hand-wave his rhetoric.

You can be a black Republican. Do your thing. But I don't accept holding your nose and casting a vote for Donald Trump knowing everything we know about his character, mettle and opinions.