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[EventHorizon]

I'm glad someone is asking this because this is exactly what I posted on my FB:

So I don't pretend to know the law, but researching a bit on California law it seems there are protections in place from being fired for political activities.

Those that are advocating that FB/Oculus remove Palmer Luckey should also note that FB recently was under hot water for other political events internally according to reports.

Not sure that they're within their rights to actually remove him if they wanted to do so at this time. I could be mistaken though as I'm not an expert in this field.

Also, to those thinking a boycott will help stop someone that has the amount of money that Luckey does to contributing to things they don't agree with, that's naive at best. The man already got his payday, you're now just hurting those who had nothing to do with him or his actions.

I'm not advocating either way on this topic, I'm merely pointing out the logical road bumps in the path.

I'm no lawyer, but my layman's interpretation is that those types of protections are not universal and don't apply if whatever characteristic being protected is a required attribute of the job. For example, you can't generally discriminate on race and gender, but that wouldn't apply in casting for a specific part in a show, movie or play. There it is perfectly fine to limit your search to a specific gender or race if that is what the part is to be cast as. Palmer is the face of Oculus and thus his image reflects on them and is part of his job.

Btw, the boycott is to show public disapproval for those types of actions. The distressing thing about this election cycle is that poor behaviour is being normalized. For example Trump suffers little blowback from gaffs that would have easily torpedoed other candidates. For comparison, Romney's 2012 campaign was dealt a death blow with his 47% remark, and Howard Dean lost his chance at the 2004 Democratic nomination just because he screamed too energetically in a microphone. This reaction is at least setting some base standard for some people about what is acceptable.

If Oculus allows him to openly support racist causes outside of the workplace, is it that far of a stretch to image that race may be a factor to Palmer and/or other prominent Oculus staff in the workplace?

You can't get sued because you might have done something. Either you did something illegal or you didn't? There is no imagining.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Yeah, and see, Oculus believes his apology is sincere that his support of the alt-right is reflecting negatively on Oculus. He is truly sorry that people don't like that.

This is their official stance.

I certainly hope not. More pressure needs to be applied if so.

 

[Ozigizo]

So, I reread the Daily Beast article and I noticed that Nimble America was started with 11k. Do we know if Luckey was apart of the creation of it? If so he is pretty much the sole donator.


... all the things Krejlooc had to reexplain are in the original The Daily Beast article... http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...re-secretly-funding-trump-s-meme-machine.html

I think there was a ton of fallout regarding the donations after the whole Milo college fund thing.

 

[Alucrid]

I'm glad someone is asking this because this is exactly what I posted on my FB:

my sympathy for oculus as a whole is slowly grinding down after seeing the CEO's response and Jason Rubin's response.

 

[Iztok Mravlja]

So, I reread the Daily Beast article and I noticed that Nimble America was started with 11k. Do we know if Luckey was apart of the creation of it? If so he is pretty much the sole donator.


... all the things Krejlooc had to reexplain are in the original The Daily Beast article, plus more specifics about the_donald... http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...re-secretly-funding-trump-s-meme-machine.html

I assumed there was something more specific and recently uncovered because the language used was "funded an organization to spread hate about employees that work for him".

I now understand that wasn't meant literally in the way I understood it, I'm sorry. This isn't my primary language. You're all just jumping to conclusions about me.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

Maybe take a look at the preceeding post which was incredible useless and demeaning. It just made me sad and I responded in kind.

Unless this is all somehow my fault and I'm not seeing it (entirely possible), you're not treating people very well over here.

I'm really sorry for derailing, I know I should've read this entire beast of a thread but I was just looking for a TL;DR

EDIT: Kreylooc, thank you for taking the time, I appreciate it!

You see your time better spent asking questions that have already been addressed in the original article? It would take you less time to read the article than to argue with everyone. Hell, you could catch up on the thread in less time.

 

[FlyinJ]

I assumed there was something more specific and recently uncovered because the language used was "funded an organization to spread hate about employees that work for him".

I now understand that wasn't meant literally, I'm sorry. This isn't my primary language. You're all just jumping to conclusions about me.

No, it was meant literally. Palmer, Milo and the unknown third partner started the organization to spread alt-right racist hate speech. It's just that they were only able to get the fat-shaming anti-hilary one out the door before this whole thing blew up.

Just go to the Nimble America site and see for yourself.

 

[SmiteOfHand]

I certainly hope not. More pressure needs to be applied if so.

Here is the CEO of Oculus' statement.

Statement by Brendan Iribe, CEO of Oculus:

http://venturebeat.com/2016/09/23/palmer-luckey-i-am-deeply-sorry-that-my-actions-hurt-oculus/

 

[dragonfart28]

Libertarians lol

The naive part of the political spectrum.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

You can't get sued because you might have done something. Either you did something illegal or you didn't? There is no imagining.

Hypothetical situation: I am a minority who works at Oculus. Earlier this year I was passed over for a promotion even though I have more experience than the white guy that got the promotion. I read the news, see a headline that shows that Palmer is financially supporting racists. I wonder to myself if my race played a role in not getting the promotion.

Is it so hard to believe that something like this could happen?

 

[NintendoGal]

Here is the CEO of Oculus' statement.

To me that supports what I commented on earlier, their hands are tied, just in PR speak.

 

[Krejlooc]

I think there was a ton of fallout regarding the donations after the whole Milo college fund thing.

Pretty much. That's why it was big for him to have a billionaire investor matching donations to their group.

 

[Trojan]

Btw, the boycott is to show public disapproval for those types of actions. The distressing thing about this election cycle is that poor behaviour is being normalized. For example Trump suffers little blowback from gaffs that would have easily torpedoed other candidates. For comparison, Romney's 2012 campaign was dealt a death blow with his 47% remark, and Howard Dean lost his chance at the 2004 Democratic nomination just because he screamed too energetically in a microphone. This reaction is at least setting some base standard for some people about what is acceptable.

This 100%. I was just explaining this to someone at brunch today. The biggest trick Trump has pulled off is creating "normal state" messaging that is so full of hubris, lies, discrimination, bigotry, and jingoism that simply toning it down becomes acceptable. People adapt to candidates and after hearing him spew this garbage for over a year, so many people are just numb to it and that becomes the new normal.

I've voted both Republican and Democrat in elections - I'm registered Independent - and I've never loathed a candidate more than Trump.

 

[Trouble]

This 100%. I was just explaining this to someone at brunch today. The biggest trick Trump has pulled off is creating "normal state" messaging that is so full of hubris, lies, discrimination, bigotry, and jingoism that simply toning it down becomes acceptable. People adapt to candidates and after hearing him spew this garbage for over a year, so many people are just numb to it and that becomes the new normal.

There's a term for that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window

 

[Quote]

If I was working at Oculus, i'd be having a meltdown with HR.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Here is the CEO of Oculus' statement.

Fuck Oculus, actually.

 

[Krejlooc]

I assumed there was something more specific and recently uncovered because the language used was "funded an organization to spread hate about employees that work for him".

I now understand that wasn't meant literally in the way I understood it, I'm sorry. This isn't my primary language. You're all just jumping to conclusions about me.

They haven't really started yet. The organization was literally just formed. What has happened so far is that Palmer Luckey made a large donation to milo yiannopoulos for him to turn his alt-right movement into a real political group, then hit up a donald trump sub-reddit to ask for donations, and promising to further bankroll the operation.

Do you know who david duke is? He's a former imperial grand dragon of the KKK. This exact thing happened with this guy, as he got huge donations from secret, racist, rich backers, and he actually got elected to the house of representatives many times because of it. This is basically the path milo yiannopoulos is trying to take. He wants to give his alt-right movement, which spews a lot of hateful shit, actual political power, and Palmer Luckey is funding his ambition.

 

[FlyinJ]

Hypothetical situation: I am a minority who works at Oculus. Earlier this year I was passed over for a promotion even though I have more experience than the white guy that got the promotion. I read the news, see a headline that shows that Palmer is financially supporting racists. I wonder to myself if my race played a role in not getting the promotion.

Is it so hard to believe that something like this could happen?

I just can't imagine what they are thinking keeping him on with shit like this looming over their employees.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I just can't imagine what they are thinking keeping him on with shit like this looming over their employees.

Agree. This is about far more than simple political party preference or reasonable causes. It's unacceptable.

 

[EventHorizon]

Hypothetical situation: I am a minority who works at Oculus. Earlier this year I was passed over for a promotion even though I have more experience than the white guy that got the promotion. I read the news, see a headline that shows that Palmer is financially supporting racists. I wonder to myself if my race played a role in not getting the promotion.

Is it so hard to believe that something like this could happen?

You just added a whole bunch of additional information about a specific act, the lack of which was my main criticism of your argument. There is no evidence at all about the circumstances you describe.

You might as well also say, what about the hypothetical situation where Palmer shoots a black man and claims it was self-defense. Wouldn't his funding of this group be admissible as evidence against him? Why yes it would, but that's not the illegal, or most important, part of that hypothetical situation.

 

[Krejlooc]

Fuck Oculus, actually.

You kind of forget about it, then you go back and read it and Jason Rubin's response again and realize they never even apologize. They're totally cool with this shit. It's literally "sorry you're upset."

 

[NintendoGal]

Btw, the boycott is to show public disapproval for those types of actions.

That sounds like a form of collateral damage, perhaps not in the extreme that most people mean it though. I'm not OK with that simply because others are being impacted in the process. A boycott is fine, especially if you disagree with that company's stance, however the person doing this is not going to be affected and the company has come out to say he doesn't speak for them in that fashion.

I'd definitely say boycotting the individual here seems more warranted, but that's just how I see things.

 

[FlyinJ]

That sounds like a form of collateral damage, perhaps not in the extreme that most people mean it though. I'm not OK with that simply because others are being impacted in the process. A boycott is fine, especially if you disagree with that company's stance, however the person doing this is not going to be affected and the company has come out to say he doesn't speak for them in that fashion.

I'd definitely say boycotting the individual here seems more warranted, but that's just how I see things.

The guy is taking the profits from Oculus and investing them into hate groups.

There is no other option than to boycott the company that is giving him these profits. Unless you're cool with the money you give it being used to spread hate speech.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

You just added a whole bunch of additional information about a specific act, the lack of which was my main criticism of your argument. There is no evidence at all about the circumstances you describe.

You might as well also say, what about the hypothetical situation where Palmer shoots a black man and claims it was self-defense. Wouldn't his funding of this group be admissible as evidence against him? Why yes it would, but that's not the illegal, or most important, part of that hypothetical situation.

That's why it was a hypothetical situation. I would maybe think Palmer bringing his racism to work a little more realistic than him shooting people... For one, he's already done one and not the other.

My point is that if any single person working at Oculus has ever felt belittled or mistreated and they have suspected their race was a factor, now has a much stronger case.

 

[Krejlooc]

That sounds like a form of collateral damage, perhaps not in the extreme that most people mean it though. I'm not OK with that simply because others are being impacted in the process. A boycott is fine, especially if you disagree with that company's stance, however the person doing this is not going to be affected and the company has come out to say he doesn't speak for them in that fashion.

I'd definitely say boycotting the individual here seems more warranted, but that's just how I see things.

The guy has 700 million dollars, there is no way to directly impact him from a consumer's perspective anymore, except that he clearly still cares about being known in the VR world and that he's proud of his company. The VR industry is nascent and as someone who actually works in that industry, there aren't enough developers and people to fill all the roles needed. I would feel bad for the people at Oculus, but I wouldn't doubt they could find employment elsewhere. And I feel much worse about supporting Palmer Luckey.

Not to mention, as a developer, I vehemently disagree with Oculus' development and publishing practices and think their approach to selling headsets is not in the best interest of consumers nor VR as a medium.

 

[aeolist]

jason rubin also came out in support of luckey: https://twitter.com/Jason_Rubin/status/779512905221885952

lol @ his mentions being full of the email screencaps contradicting luckey's facebook post

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

Here is the CEO of Oculus' statement.

Well if that's their official response to this I'm very glad I'm not supporting Oculus.

 

[Thanati]

So he just donated 10k without really knowing what the organization was? Utter nonsense! Of course he knew. If you're going to drop that much money, then there's a reason and you clearly know it.

 

[Krejlooc]

jason rubin also came out in support of luckey: https://twitter.com/Jason_Rubin/status/779512905221885952

lol @ his mentions being full of the email screencaps contradicting luckey's facebook post

How do you check mentions?

 

[aeolist]

scroll down

 

[FlyinJ]

So he just donated 10k without really knowing what the organization was? Utter nonsense! Of course he knew. If you're going to drop that much money, then there's a reason and you clearly know it.

It's also looking like he was the ONLY donor to the organization as well.

 

[Quote]

How do you check mentions?

They should show up when you click that link under the post.

 

[Krejlooc]

So he just donated 10k without really knowing what the organization was? Utter nonsense! Of course he knew. If you're going to drop that much money, then there's a reason and you clearly know it.

LOL the best part is that his correspondence through the account guarantees he knew what he was donating to. He says as much. He was telling everyone they had to keep it a secret because it would be a bombshell. His posts are nothing but plutocratic "we control the world!" bullshit.

scroll down

Oh I had no idea those were called mentions, I just always referred to them as replies. Thanks.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

In terms of research and development, Valve appears to be leading the field, and in terms of wider adoption, I'd say google and sony represent bigger chances of success than oculus (and apple, eventually, when they enter the market).

I would not be surprised to see Oculus wind up just like 3DFX. Right down to the botched console-maker partnership.

yeah those other companies are more likely to release whatever becomes VR's must play killer app but it really depends if Facebook really had plans for this tech.

I could see Facebook rebranding the whole thing as 'Facebook VR' this mess with Luckey could hurry that along

 

[Thanati]

LOL the best part is that his correspondence through the account guarantees he knew what he was donating to. He says as much. He was telling everyone they had to keep it a secret because it would be a bombshell. His posts are nothing but plutocratic "we control the world!" bullshit.

Urgh. That just makes it worse.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

jason rubin also came out in support of luckey: https://twitter.com/Jason_Rubin/status/779512905221885952

lol @ his mentions being full of the email screencaps contradicting luckey's facebook post

Jason, you stupid SON of a Bitch. THIS IS NOT ABOUT VR! STOP MAKING THIS ABOUT VR.

 

[entremet]

So he just donated 10k without really knowing what the organization was? Utter nonsense! Of course he knew. If you're going to drop that much money, then there's a reason and you clearly know it.

Of course he did. 10k is still 10k. I don't care how rich you are.

 

[SmiteOfHand]

You kind of forget about it, then you go back and read it and Jason Rubin's response again and realize they never even apologize. They're totally cool with this shit. It's literally "sorry you're upset."

This has been what I have been doing. Going back and reading it all again thinking surely I am the crazy one here. And nope. Nope.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

You kind of forget about it, then you go back and read it and Jason Rubin's response again and realize they never even apologize. They're totally cool with this shit. It's literally "sorry you're upset."

That's how I read it. "Sorry, we let everyone do and say whatever they want."

K.

 

[potatohead]

Libertarians lol

The naive part of the political spectrum.

Pretty much.

They are literally the "I got mine so fuck everyone else" crowd.

 

[Thanati]

Of course he did. 10k is still 10k. I don't care how rich you are.

Agreed.

 

[FlyinJ]

Another damning aspect from the original article: NimbleRichGuy was listed on the Nimble America site as "Vice Presdent" of the organization (which has since been removed from the site).

That would make Palmer a lot more than just a contributor.

 

[Krejlooc]

In all, it's actually sort of funny how bad Palmer Luckey was at being an evil, rich, anonymous backer. His first shot at it, and he shits all down his leg. Isn't the point of being anonymous that you never reveal your identity?

 

[joebruin]

this is just gonna get swept under the rug huh...

 

[NintendoGal]

The guy has 700 million dollars, there is no way to directly impact him from a consumer's perspective anymore, except that he clearly still cares about being known in the VR world and that he's proud of his company. The VR industry is nascent and as someone who actually works in that industry, there aren't enough developers and people to fill all the roles needed. I would feel bad for the people at Oculus, but I wouldn't doubt they could find employment elsewhere. And I feel much worse about supporting Palmer Luckey.

Not to mention, as a developer, I vehemently disagree with Oculus' development and publishing practices and think their approach to selling headsets is not in the best interest of consumers nor VR as a medium.

I respect that, especially since you already don't like them for logical reasons.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

In all, it's actually sort of funny how bad Palmer Luckey was at being an evil, rich, anonymous backer. His first shot at it, and he shits all down his leg. Isn't the point of being anonymous that you never reveal your identity?

It is known that those that commit crimes or murders love to reveal to the world that they did it. The point of doing something is declaring "I did it". Serial Killers take a sigh of relief when cops come knocking. Zodiac killer was probably sad no one caught him.

Palmer probably got an erection when he was asked if it's him, and couldn't resist blowing a load.

Fucking Jason Rubin though. This white supremacist sympathizing fuck.

 

[Intheflorsh]

In all, it's actually sort of funny how bad Palmer Luckey was at being an evil, rich, anonymous backer. His first shot at it, and he shits all down his leg. Isn't the point of being anonymous that you never reveal your identity?

All he had to do was not tell a journalist, and he went and told a journalist.

Honestly, it's more weird than anything.

 

[EventHorizon]

There's a term for that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window

The funny thing about Trump is that he is so far outside of the Overton Window that even describing his effects with it is to unduly normalize them. That's why Trump has gotten away with so much. The political system and press has no way to deal with how out of bounds he is. Just by using normal terms to describe him doesn't do it justice. A whole new vocabulary and methodology is needed.

I equate it to a trial. In direct examination of a witness there are certain rules that apply. However the judicial system recognizes that some witnesses simply can't be examined with those methods no matter how skilled the attorney is. For witnesses who have no regard for the justice process, the attorney is allowed to treat them as a hostile witness. That is what is needed for Trump and his surrogates. Using the normal decorum to address them only plays into their hands. They need to be treated as hostile to the entire political process as their natural default state.

This isn't about simply disagreeing with Trump. This is about Trump not abiding by the normal cultural rules that limit what a candidate can do. The system is based on the fact that shame at being called a liar would curtail behaviour. Trump and his supporters on the other hand will repeatedly lie about things that are easily proven and known to be false.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Another damning aspect from the original article: NimbleRichGuy was listed on the Nimble America site as "Vice Presdent" of the organization (which has since been removed from the site).

That would make Palmer a lot more than just a contributor.

we have that screen capped in this thread I hope

it did claim him as a co-founder? lol

 

[Alucrid]

It is known that those that commit crimes or murders love to reveal to the world that they did it. The point of doing something is declaring "I did it". Serial Killers take a sigh of relief when cops come knocking. Zodiac killer was probably sad no one caught him.

Palmer probably got an erection when he was asked if it's him, and couldn't resist blowing a load.

Fucking Jason Rubin though. This fuck.

hey, you always hit a few bumps in the road when getting somewhere. so maybe those bumps are minorities, once we get to vr utopia all will be forgotten.