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[Zeuanimals]

I keep seeing people bring this statistic up to prove their point that black people aren't being killed more than white people, by cops, and therefore racism among cops isn't an issue...

Just... What?

Ignoring the fact that there's a lot more white people in the country and that black people die disproportionately more than white people by the hands of cops; if those white people weren't posing a threat to the police and they were still gunned down, that should be a big red flag. "Racism among cops isn't a problem. Here's a statistic about how trigger happy cops can be. See? Nothing wrong with our police. If anything, we need more police and for them to have more power and maybe even better weapons."

 

[Taco_Human]

The whole point is that the statistic is disproportionate. You can't ignore that.

Edit: Misread, yeah just link them to the 'black while' thread. I wish I had that thread ready to show it off to anyone anytime to shut them up.

 

[Zeuanimals]

The whole point is that the statistic is disproportionate. You can't ignore that.

I know, but the idea that there's not a problem with our police despite the fact that they kill a bunch of white people doesn't seem to be a problem for people who say All Lives Matter. It seems like the police can pretty much do no wrong or they just haven't really thought about what they're saying.

 

[Alienous]

The idea of the statement isn't that policing can't be improved, but that instances of bad policing that result in unnecessary death and injury aren't due to racial biases. They they are problems systemic for reasons outside of race.

Not that it's right, but I believe that's where it's coming from.

 

[Henkka]

I feel like you're conflating two issues. If someone is arguing that there isn't a big issue with racism in policing (Probably citing that Harvard study), that doesn't mean they're arguing there isn't an issue with police violence in general. I mean, unless they are. But you shouldn't assume that.

 

[Mr. X]

OP acknowledges that is uses to deflect racial bias, he's just dumbfounded why they're not upset by the amount in general then if all lives matter to them.

Answer is they default to the cop was in the right, would never happen to me or people I care about.

 

[Alienous]

OP acknowledges that is uses to deflect racial bias, he's just dumbfounded why they're not upset by the amount in general then if all lives matter to them.

Answer is they default to the cop was in the right, would never happen to me or people I care about.

I see where you're coming from.

It could just be acceptance of the faults in the police system so long as they aren't for racial reasons.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

In my experience many americans have a fundamentally different view of the police and especially violence than people in other developed countries.

Americans somehow think its ok that criminals are shot by police*, they think its normal that so many police encounters end in triggers being pulled


*Its not. Police is part of the executive branch. Punishment should be determined by judiciary. Cops killing people, criminals or not, is a breakdown of the systm.
The fact that situations in which its viewed as justified for police to kill people are so frequent in the US is terrifiying but somehow many americans think its normal.

Racism and poorly trained officers are big problems, but the general acceptance and numbness towards violence in the US is another huge issue.

 

[Thelonelykoopa]

Its the great irony that all lives matter doesnt care about the deaths of anybody.

 

[Already Torn]

OP acknowledges that is uses to deflect racial bias, he's just dumbfounded why they're not upset by the amount in general then if all lives matter to them.

Answer is they default to the cop was in the right, would never happen to me or people I care about.

Yup. The white people who get shot are presumably asking for it/are criminals.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Don't expect consistency from bigots.

 

[RocknRola]

It's almost like racists don't make any sense!

 

[Henkka]

But yeah "All Lives Matter" is obviously just a dumb response/deflection to BLM, I don't think they've ever even pretended to be a race-neutral movement against police brutality. Maybe there should be a race-neutral movement, but it shouldn't use the "____ Lives Matter" moniker, unless it wants to be seen as a counterpoint or response to BLM... Which would go against the whole "race-neutral" thing

 

[Thelonelykoopa]

In my experience many americans have a fundamentally different view of the police and especially violence than people in other developed countries.

Americans somehow think its ok that criminals are shot by police*, they think its normal that so many police encounters end in triggers being pulled


*Its not. Police is part of the executive branch. Punishment should be determined by judiciary. Cops killing people, criminals or not, is a breakdown of the systm.
The fact that situations in which its viewed as justified for police to kill people are so frequent in the US is terrifiying but somehow many americans think its normal.

Racism and poorly trained officers are big problems, but the general acceptance and numbness towards violence in the US is another huge issue.

In their defense alot of people I know thinks executive is pronunced ex-a-cutive its easy to see how they get confused lol.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

In their defense alot of people I know thinks executive is pronunced ex-a-cutive its easy to see how they get confused lol.

Thatswhy you should teach latin in highschool

 

[Infinite]

I feel like you're conflating two issues. If someone is arguing that there isn't a big issue with racism in policing (Probably citing that Harvard study), that doesn't mean they're arguing there isn't an issue with police violence in general. I mean, unless they are. But you shouldn't assume that.

Citing the Harvard study wouldn't even prove that

 

[thelastcrusader]

Cops infuriate me, every time there's a shooting I always hear from one person "they should have listened to the cop's orders." First thing I think is fuck them, I'm not taking orders from some jackass who likely didn't even go to college and did some police academy training who likely gets paid jackshit but feels like a badass cause they have a gun. And just because I don't follow their orders to the letter does not give them authority to kill people.
Whether you're black, white, yellow, or purple they have no right to harm or kill you unless you actively threaten their life but at that point that's true for any living creature on the planet imo.

Reality is Blacks are definitely getting the short end of the stick, but that's just one prong of the problem when in reality the real problem is that these murderers are little pricks who have a god complex.

Granted not all cops are bad and all that jazz as their are some very good and capable ones out there, but it's their entire infrastructure that preserves and protects corruption and they desperately need an overhaul. Murdering an innocent human being and getting paid vacation until the public forgets about it is complete nonsense.

 

[Abstrusity]

They don't care because they think it's not a problem. "Criminals are getting shot -- why should I care?"

 

[Palette Swap]

See also Zachary Hammond, a white teenager killed by cops.
You know who cared about his death? BLM.

 

[thelastcrusader]

Did anyone see that BLM vs ALM video from that jerk Joey Salad?

 

[ElectricKaibutsu]

I'm pretty sure it's not common knowledge that cops kill a lot of unarmed white people. There might be a bigger push for body cams if it were.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

ALM is code for shut your black ass up I don't care about your problems.

 

[SillyEskimo]

White, black, Latino, who cares? They're all poor. People should look for and concentrate on commonalities and not differences. Poor people have been mistreated, dehumanized, and underrepresented in every society since time immortal. Poverty is the root of oppression and injustice. Fight poverty, not each other.

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

I know, but the idea that there's not a problem with our police despite the fact that they kill a bunch of white people doesn't seem to be a problem for people who say All Lives Matter. It seems like the police can pretty much do no wrong or they just haven't really thought about what they're saying.

Whites have no problem with fucking over themselves if it means fucking over blacks people as well, especially poor conservative whites.

 

[Infinite]

I'm pretty sure it's not common knowledge that cops kill a lot of unarmed white people. There might be a bigger push for body cams if it were.

Read the OP. They're talking about people who cite studies that show that cops shoot and kill more unarmed who're people to prove that there isn't a racial bias against black people.

 

[ElectricKaibutsu]

Read the OP. They're talking about people who cite studies that show that cops shoot and kill more unarmed who're people to prove they there isn't a racial bias against black people.

I did read the OP. I still don't think it's common knowledge. Does ALM represent the average person's opinion?

 

[Zeuanimals]

Did anyone see that BLM vs ALM video from that jerk Joey Salad?

Yeah. My brother shared it on Facebook... A 5 minute video proves everything wrong with BLM. Let's forgot the probable hours of footage he cut out so he could spin his narrative.

 

[Infinite]

I did read the OP. I still don't think it's common knowledge. Does ALM represent the average person's opinion?

That's a different discussion cause it seems like OP is focused on those ALM And not the average person. It seems pretty clear that they are

 

[NoblesseOblige]

White, black, Latino, who cares? They're all poor. People should look for and concentrate on commonalities and not differences. Poor people have been mistreated, dehumanized, and underrepresented in every society since time immortal. Poverty is the root of oppression and injustice. Fight poverty, not each other.

Are you parodying an AllLivesMatter person?

 

[Henkka]

Cops infuriate me, every time there's a shooting I always hear from one person "they should have listened to the cop's orders." First thing I think is fuck them, I'm not taking orders from some jackass who likely didn't even go to college and did some police academy training who likely gets paid jackshit but feels like a badass cause they have a gun.

You should

 

[Dusk Soldier]

I keep seeing people bring this statistic up to prove their point that black people aren't being killed more than white people, by cops, and therefore racism among cops isn't an issue...

Just... What?

Ignoring the fact that there's a lot more white people in the country and that black people die disproportionately more than white people by the hands of cops; if those white people weren't posing a threat to the police and they were still gunned down, that should be a big red flag. "Racism among cops isn't a problem. Here's a statistic about how trigger happy cops can be. See? Nothing wrong with our police. If anything, we need more police and for them to have more power and maybe even better weapons."

The problem with statistics is that they can be cherry picked to fit any narrative.

For instance, men die disproportionately more than women at the hands of cops. Does that mean that the police force is sexist against men?

You could make the point that do to institutionalised racism, Police brutality has hit the black population harder than other races in the US. But unless you think it's perfectly normal for the police force to kill thousands of civilians annually, I don't think you can simply chalk it down to racism.

 

[ElectricKaibutsu]

That's a different discussion cause it seems like OP is focused on those ALM And not the average person. It seems pretty clear that they are

Ah, OK. I agree with OP then.

 

[Easy_D]

It's so stupid, because if we could solve the issues that lead to the problems that BLM wants to adress, I'm sure the overall kill count would lower, everyone would benefit.

 

[Boney]

Decades of media bullshit will rot people's brain.

Clinton's Telecomunications Act sent the country down the shitter

 

[thelastcrusader]

You should

Not listening to orders and clearly approaching to attack or reaching for a weapon is not the same thing. That video did nothing to persuade me.

 

[SillyEskimo]

Are you parodying an AllLivesMatter person?

PoorLivesMatter is probably a better term. But a disproportionate number of blacks are living in poverty, so I guess it's skewed more towards the BLM movement based on my premise.

 

[Henkka]

Not listening to orders and clearly approaching to attack or reaching for a weapon is not the same thing. That video did nothing to persuade me.

Here's an interview with the guy, too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAJXP0okzwk

I wouldn't say that the guy who casually walked behind his car "clearly" reached for a weapon. He bends over a little, but how would you know it's for a gun? Or maybe he doesn't reach at all. What if he walks behind his car to obscure him taking out a gun from under his shirt?

If a cop asks you to stop, the fact that you know you haven't done anything is irrelevant. How do you know a call didn't come in about a guy who matches your description? If you think your civil rights are being violated, the time to suss that out is at the station, with a lawyer. Not on the street.

 

[Krejlooc]

Because ALM actually means "Shut up, black people."

 

[The Kree]

White Americans are generally conditioned to think that cops are OK and that they usually do the right thing. Black Americans are not.

There exists two different American realities as it relates to law enforcement. "All Lives Matter" is a conditioned response to the distortion of one of those realities.

 

[Infinite]

Here's an interview with the guy, too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAJXP0okzwk

I wouldn't say that the guy who casually walked behind his car "clearly" reached for a weapon. He bends over a little, but how would you know it's for a gun? Or maybe he doesn't reach at all. What if he walks behind his car to obscure him taking out a gun from under his shirt?

If a cop asks you to stop, the fact that you know you haven't done anything is irrelevant. How do you know a call didn't come in about a guy who matches your description? If you think your civil rights are being violated, the time to suss that out is at the station, with a lawyer. Not on the street.

Cops should know how to deal with belligerent unruly people with resorting to shooting them. Cops don't rven know how to deal with people with "attitudes" (like Sandra Bland, RIP) which goes back to point initially made in this line of discussion that this line of profession breeds assholes with god complexes.

 

[FStubbs]

OP acknowledges that is uses to deflect racial bias, he's just dumbfounded why they're not upset by the amount in general then if all lives matter to them.

This is essentially the Rand Paul/libertarian view. Deny any racism but say police brutality in general is troubling and state violence needs to be stopped.

Edit: Rand Paul did acknowledge racism.

 

[FStubbs]

White, black, Latino, who cares? They're all poor. People should look for and concentrate on commonalities and not differences. Poor people have been mistreated, dehumanized, and underrepresented in every society since time immortal. Poverty is the root of oppression and injustice. Fight poverty, not each other.

Bull. A cop pulls you over. Would you rather be a poor white guy or a middle class black guy?

 

[SillyEskimo]

Bull. A cop pulls you over. Would you rather be a poor white guy or a middle class black guy?

Middle class black guy, without hesitation.

 

[Henkka]

Cops should know how to deal with belligerent unruly people with resorting to shooting them. Cops don't rven know how to deal with people with "attitudes" (like Sandra Bland, RIP) which goes back to point initially made in this line of discussion that this line of profession breeds assholes with god complexes.

Ideally, yes... But it's not like cops have some magic spell with which to calm down unruly people. Effective social and communication skills can calm down some people, but there's always going to be people who fight back, too.

I'm not sure if you're talking about people who physically resist or just talk back, but consider this: If you grab or tackle a cop in the US, you've escalated the situation to a lethal level. This is because the cop has gun, and he can't know you're not trying to grab it. Or what if the cop is knocked unconscious, and his gun is stolen?

In the UK, these sorts of situations don't call for the cop to use his gun... Because he doesn't have a gun! In many ways, I think the problem of police shootings in the US is ultimately a consequence of the gun problem in general. There's guns fucking everywhere, so cops are constantly paranoid about every twitchy move the suspects make... And because there's guns everywhere, the cops have to carry guns, too, which means every encounter with a cop can be a lethal one.

 

[Slayven]

White, black, Latino, who cares? They're all poor. People should look for and concentrate on commonalities and not differences. Poor people have been mistreated, dehumanized, and underrepresented in every society since time immortal. Poverty is the root of oppression and injustice. Fight poverty, not each other.

Bullshit, study after study shows you still better off as a poor white person then a poor black person.

 

[tkscz]

Bull. A cop pulls you over. Would you rather be a poor white guy or a middle class black guy?

No joke, is the poor white person a red neck/from a trailer park being pulled over by a city cop?

OT: Shouldn't this open more talks and concerns about better mental evaluations of police recruits? Whether they shot an unarmed person for race or power or both, things like these should be tested before hand. Find out who should and shouldn't be a cop before they get a badge and a gun and a fantasy of power.

 

[Dalibor68]

Are there official statistics that show the proportional cop shooting percentage per race (plus per income/education levels I guess if you want a fair comparison)?

 

[Paskil]

Many people share the mindset that anyone that dies at the hands of a police officer deserve it, because if they had done nothing wrong, or cooperated, they would still be alive. Since they have no basic empathy to even get to that point, something more sinister like implicit bias isn't even in the realm of possibility.

 

[Infinite]

Ideally, yes... But it's not like cops have some magic spell with which to calm down unruly people. Effective social and communication skills can calm down some people, but there's always going to be people who fight back, too.

I'm not sure if you're talking about people who physically resist or just talk back, but consider this: If you grab or tackle a cop in the US, you've escalated the situation to a lethal level. This is because the cop has gun, and he can't know you're not trying to grab it. Or what if the cop is knocked unconscious, and his gun is stolen?

In the UK, these sorts of situations don't call for the cop to use his gun... Because he doesn't have a gun! In many ways, I think the problem of police shootings in the US is ultimately a consequence of the gun problem in general. There's guns fucking everywhere, so cops are constantly paranoid about every twitchy move the suspects make... And because there's guns everywhere, the cops have to carry guns, too, which means every encounter with a cop can be a lethal one.

The problem is officers think the use of force, lethal or otherwise, is that "magic spell". And of course I'm talking about people who talk back and not people that tackle officers although I don't believe that calls for lethal force either.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Bullshit, study after study shows you still better off as a poor white person then a poor black person.

hell. studies show you're better off as a poor White person than a not-quite-poor Black person.