Can't find the post since I'm on mobile but it transcends "just being a game" where millions of dollars are concerned. It then falls into the realm of a scam. if Sean did not say the things he did in those interviews, I think the anger would be less. If HG communicated with the community, the anger would be less.
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Advertising Standards launches investigation into No Man's Sky
- Thread starter Gamezone
- Start date
Pretty much.
LelouchZero
Member
People still salty about that downgrade.
Ubisoft have a tendency to "downgrade" their games visually, it's debatable that its a change in artistic choice but ehhh not so much in some cases.
Gameplay-wise they pretty much always deliver, whatever they say is in the game, is in the game.
Unlike No Man's Sky, so the comparison isn't too good.
Leafhopper
Banned
Not even close to being the same thing. Graphical changes and downgrades, although scummy is not the same as lying about straight up features in the game all the way until the day of the release.
Especially if the game starts to look like what you are going to get after the E3 showing and months before it's out.
This is an ignorant and/or intellectually dishonest comparison
To be fair, I seriously doubt most informed gamers are watching Colbert to educate themselves about video game purchases.
I'll give you the E3 video and other gaming related sites, but watching Colbert for gaming info (while integral to the SEAN LIED! crowd) is like going to McDonalds for medical advice.
Huh?
These games are not comparable at all.
These games delivered on their promise more or less (Whether you were happy about the final game, is up to you), but NMS straight out deceived the fans and the press until the day of release.
DrROBschiz
Member
More like the punishment should be proportionate to the crime so ill be interesting in what this investigation settles on
Not to mention his constant prefacing of "There are so many planets and players will be spread out so much that the chance of people meeting each other is so incredibly low" as to help create the ambiguity of whether or not the feature is actually "missing" or you just hadn't found someone yet.
He made it intentionally difficult to actually make an informed decision.
Had those 2 players not lucked out in the beginning and found the same planet, I don't think the backlash would've reached the height that it did, or at least it wouldn't have at the speed that it did.
ratcliffja
Member
I don't know why you say Hello I say Goodbye.
Permanently A
Junior Member
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Which ways?
Molyneux said you could have children in fable and "that the game would span your hero’s whole lifetime; that you could knock an acorn off a tree and slowly, over the course of the game, watch it grow into a tree of its own" - Kotaku
That's just one instance in one game.
bonesmccoy
Banned
The complaint is about what is shown on the Steam store page.
Stone Ocean
Member
The fact that they are indie doesn't mean they get to get away with this kind of thing. Losing players doesn't mean anything, they already got a shitload of money for the game, just leaving at that means they got away with it.
AtomicShroom
Member
Something something reaping what you sow, etc...
Many are bringing up other games such as Watch Dogs into the mix. The important difference between WD and NMS is that the only time where WD ever seemed graphically (superficially) misrepresented was in its original reveal video, more than a year before release. Promotion material around the launch of the game faithfully represented the game we actually got.
In the case of No Man's Sky, the promotion material around the time of release, and even after release, did not and does not represent the game. Not only graphically, but in core gameplay features. This isn't just a superficial graphical downgrade that doesn't factor much into the actual enjoyment and value of the game. It's the actual GAME portion of the game that's completely and grossly misrepresented, even to this day.
Many are bringing up other games such as Watch Dogs into the mix. The important difference between WD and NMS is that the only time where WD ever seemed graphically (superficially) misrepresented was in its original reveal video, more than a year before release. Promotion material around the launch of the game faithfully represented the game we actually got.
In the case of No Man's Sky, the promotion material around the time of release, and even after release, did not and does not represent the game. Not only graphically, but in core gameplay features. This isn't just a superficial graphical downgrade that doesn't factor much into the actual enjoyment and value of the game. It's the actual GAME portion of the game that's completely and grossly misrepresented, even to this day.
I don't know if anyone's bought this up, but the ASA isn't some all powerful organization that can 'punish' Hello Games or whatever. All they can do is tell them to remove deliberately misleading pictures or videos from their marketing pages, as the Eurogamer article points out.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
This is insane.
Art changes. Movies change, Music changes, Video games change over time. Comments in interviews aren't the same as an add advertising multiplayer when it exists.
Its a sixty dollar game, you weren't harmed, you weren't victimized. If these people care about stuff that actually mattered rather than if their over-hyped game purchase didn't hit every bullet point we'd actually get real things accomplished
Art changes. Movies change, Music changes, Video games change over time. Comments in interviews aren't the same as an add advertising multiplayer when it exists.
Its a sixty dollar game, you weren't harmed, you weren't victimized. If these people care about stuff that actually mattered rather than if their over-hyped game purchase didn't hit every bullet point we'd actually get real things accomplished
Errr, I believe there are laws about false advertising.
the_lizard
Member
What a saga.
DrROBschiz
Member
My point being they didnt get away with it
You think Hello games is sitting pretty right now or something? You think they got away with some elaborate scam?
Show me the pictures of them running away with our money to some ritzy resort
They are clearly feeling the negative outcome of their poor decision making
EmeraldSwords
Banned
The first silence is a negative trait that stems from an inability or unwillingness to communicate effectively. This silence (unlike speech) causes division and separation, creating dysfunction in human relationships.
Glad they are being pursued. Totally unacceptable behavior.
Glad they are being pursued. Totally unacceptable behavior.
No he's a 100% correct, It's a witch hunt and needlessly piling on for little reason.
No it's the same type of thing but those companies are getting a free pass for no reason.
Yeah, the downgrade of Watch Dogs was present in marketing vídeos months before it released.
What a fucking terrible comparison. Sean Murray, the lead director of the game was the one there making those claims. It doesnt matter one fucking bit it was at Colbert. If you want your comparison to be actually accurate, its like finding your doctor eating at McDonalds and ask him to give you medical advice.
This is getting a bit out of hand. I mean even movie trailers often have scenes that aren't even in the movie!
As somebody else here said, art changes during it's creation process.
Though of course they should've been more forthcoming about which features got cut, that was a bad mistake on HEllo Games part.
As somebody else here said, art changes during it's creation process.
Though of course they should've been more forthcoming about which features got cut, that was a bad mistake on HEllo Games part.
IAmAnAgnostic
Member
Bad? I'd say yes, but the main point is that it isn't feature wise what was promised or showcased throughout the years.
Caayn
Member
Even if the ASA isn't all powerful. It's good that a regulating body is going to look at the whole No Man's Sky situation.
Hello Games brought this shit storm on themselves and even if Hello Games won't get a wrist slap, which I think they really deserve. I hope that this will send a signal to the rest of the industry.
Hello Games brought this shit storm on themselves and even if Hello Games won't get a wrist slap, which I think they really deserve. I hope that this will send a signal to the rest of the industry.
Stone Ocean
Member
The problem isn't that the game changed but that we weren't told it changed, how hard is it to understand?
I don't care that NMS doesn't have multiplayer for example, I care that we were being told it had few months before launch.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
The funny thing is, even if you view the downgrade as false advertisement, Ubisoft released gameplay footage and trailer representative of the visual before the game released.
So the fans advertisement narrative doesn't even work here.
sammyCYBORG
Member
Good.
Developers and publishers should be held accountable for lying and false advertising. I hope HG get the book thrown at them and it scares other companies into acting accordingly.
Developers and publishers should be held accountable for lying and false advertising. I hope HG get the book thrown at them and it scares other companies into acting accordingly.
Basically this. Should be interesting regardless of the outcome.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
You'd think they actually robbed people.
This is a minor entertainment purchase. The stock some people have put into this harping about "getting away with it" and "lying" makes me really amazed at what people value and see as worth their time and effort.
Its a video game. Sold for 60 dollars (I imagine most people bought it for less). Nobody was harmed or victimized because people literally dug into every little interview over a few years to find a claim that wasn't in the final product. Consumer protection laws should be about people with far to much time on their hands policing every claim that comes from video game creators.
This is a minor entertainment purchase. The stock some people have put into this harping about "getting away with it" and "lying" makes me really amazed at what people value and see as worth their time and effort.
Its a video game. Sold for 60 dollars (I imagine most people bought it for less). Nobody was harmed or victimized because people literally dug into every little interview over a few years to find a claim that wasn't in the final product. Consumer protection laws should be about people with far to much time on their hands policing every claim that comes from video game creators.
Aces&Eights
Member
I'd argue that the pre-release interviews is a form of advertising. The whole premise is for a known news outlet to have the creator of an upcoming game talk about what will be in the game, show footage of said game, etc. It is quite simple to splash "work in progress" or "not necessarily indicative of final product" on the screen so consumers know that what is being shown and said is what a developer is targeting, rather what can be expected in the final product.
EDIT: I don't recall Sean ever suggesting in interviews that certain aspects of the game he is promising will either be delayed and patched in or not something that is set in stone. In fact, he went all out promising the moon (no pun intended) to consumers and things like the MP aspect are a hot ticket for gamers. It's one thing to say we are gonna have magenta creatures in Alpha Centauri and they end up being maroon. It's another to say this core mechanic will be in the game and you can play with other people and have it be a completely false statement.
So consumer protection shouldn't exist for things $60 or less? Or just if people aren't physically harmed? When should consumer protections start?
This is like grade school level trolling.
There's a difference between wanting CoD and AC every year (franchises which are still actually good games btw), and wanting indies to understand the difference between aiming for the best and failing, and promising the best and failing.
One of those is a statement of ambitiousness and goalseeking, but ultimately understanding your own limitations and managing expectations.
The other is ambitiousness to the point of fault, making promises you don't know whether or not you can keep, and avoiding the fallout/backlash when you eventually fail to meet the expectations you created in your audience. We have a very detailed history of a man who has built his entire career on this, to the point of it being the go-to comparison to acting this way.
Ah yes, the "starving kids in Africa" defense. Always a solid choice in trying to deflect literally any and all criticism. Good to see you're still trying.
That is what's so bad. Sean had no problem talkin about the game, answering questions, etc. How do you go from being so outspoken to nothing?
Stone Ocean
Member
I followed this game extensively on here. You can't know what you're getting because of the infinite nature of the game. It wasn't until gamers went through the files to see what wasn't there.
Portals don't work. Everything is static. There's no rotation around suns. Planet temps....nm I'm sure you've heard the list.
The worst part is he knew this and peddled his story till the end. The features that are missing isn't something that's pulled at the last minute.
While I'm not angry cause I think there's enough good to salvage the game....it doesn't change the fact he lied. Straight up. Not only that he prefaced the lies with the adage that if it wasn't in the game he didn't want to talk about it and make an empty promise.
It's not cool.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
Some people care about their consumer rights unlike you.
Where have you been the last 2 months?
It really is. People are just trying to marginalize the scope of the dishonesty by implying that it's just business as usual, when it has been shown beyond the shadow of a doubt that it's on another level entirely.
In the same threads as you.
So you've concluded that there is little reason for people to be upset?
Leafhopper
Banned
Not at all. Because you still get a feel of what the game will actually be months before it's out especially with preview coverage.
NMS was shamming it up until and after the day of the release. There is a big difference.
That and you can be told what changed and most developers would say "No that's not in the game anymore." couldn't get a straight answer out of Sean.
S
Steve.1981
Unconfirmed Member
The ASA don't "hunt" anyone. What they'll actually do in this case is tell the relevant parties to take down the misleading advertisements or add disclaimers. As they should, by the way.
But go ahead, continue your campaign against scumbag Murray. And stay classy.
OverBlood 3
Banned
I wish they'd end the bullshots in the PSN store. Sometimes they don't look even close to what you'll get. The footage in trailers is also misleading sometimes.
Slightly off topic
Slightly off topic