mrhyderager
Member
I think the key here is the bold. She hasn't owned up, she's just changed. Nothing pisses me off more about her than her incessant claim of consistency. It's just completely untrue.
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Why do you dislike Hilary Clinton?
- Thread starter freeofgreed
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I think the key here is the bold. She hasn't owned up, she's just changed. Nothing pisses me off more about her than her incessant claim of consistency. It's just completely untrue.
freeofgreed
Member
Hind sight is 20/20
What long term mistakes do you think she's making this cycle?
I disagree. I feel like she's been pretty apologetic this campaign and has acknowledge a lot of her past flaws.
DeathoftheEndless
Crashing this plane... with no survivors!
Your only source is a bunch of out-of-context stolen emails that weren't enough to prove any misconduct? Alright.
Though there are lots of people making a sincere argument for why they don't like Clinton (good argument or not), there are even more people simply repeating the same tired phrases over and over without backing up those claims on their own.
Corrupt
No charisma
Emails
Politician
Flip flop
Untrustworthy
Establishment
The media machine from Trump and Sanders really went to town on her image.
Corrupt
No charisma
Emails
Politician
Flip flop
Untrustworthy
Establishment
The media machine from Trump and Sanders really went to town on her image.
TPP almost. Not much else since she hasn't been in office for awhile.
freeofgreed
Member
Do you want her to push TPP or not?
It's a shame Biden isn't running. It would be a slam dunk against Trump.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
The constant "We'll attack Iran" thing I've been hearing over and over. Really friendly with Israel too. Also she just seems incredibly hawkish.
Of course not.
She seems like a strong but a very reserved women. I don't know if that is her real personality or not, she just seems so forced to act a certain way. The American public just does not seem capable of accepting an actual women. So she pretends to be this weird women with no sexuality, that is super reserved. If that is the real her, then I'm not a big fan. If it's not she needs to let her guard down but that is easier said than done. Is she the best the US can come up with as their leader. I don't think she possibly could be but she is a light year better than the other fucking yahoo.
Damerman
Member
For real.
Schattenjäger
Gabriel Knight
Her sense of entitlement is what really gets me
But after viewing the Frontline special this past week I have warmed up to her
The other thing going for her is the lengths that Russia is taking to not get her elected - that makes me gravitate to her more
But after viewing the Frontline special this past week I have warmed up to her
The other thing going for her is the lengths that Russia is taking to not get her elected - that makes me gravitate to her more
Hippopuncher12
Member
No, it was most definitely correct the first time.
She's just very uncharismatic. I know many people will say that it doesn't matter, but I think it makes a big difference. For example, seeing Joe Biden talk recently, you could just tell that he had an excellent connection with the audience. I get the feeling that he persuaded more people against Trump than Hillary has.
That's a very important thing to have if you're trying to get people to actually understand what you're saying. Doesn't matter how many facts you state, what matters is how human you are. It's why Obama had such an impact on many people. It's like how people like Neil Degrasse Tyson get people interested in science using their speaking skills. It's important to have someone that can do that politically as well.
Sure, Hillary isn't horrible, but is she really going to convince the masses (especially younger people) to get off their asses and vote? Listening to her speak, I can't help but feel uninspired.
With all that said though, anything is better than Trump.
That's a very important thing to have if you're trying to get people to actually understand what you're saying. Doesn't matter how many facts you state, what matters is how human you are. It's why Obama had such an impact on many people. It's like how people like Neil Degrasse Tyson get people interested in science using their speaking skills. It's important to have someone that can do that politically as well.
Sure, Hillary isn't horrible, but is she really going to convince the masses (especially younger people) to get off their asses and vote? Listening to her speak, I can't help but feel uninspired.
With all that said though, anything is better than Trump.
Indeed. Biden is one of the few politicians I can get behind. Genuine dude.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
I suggest watching PBS' Frontline episode on this:
http://www.pbs.org/video/2365848966/
I see a lot of those complaints of her being "manufactured" and not sincere. You know what, she is. Not because of some nefarious desire to dupe or con but out of necessity. From the Frontline Ep you see the transformation of her from when she was a much much outward idealist to where she is now. She's someone who was dragged for not baking cookies as 1st lady, for daring to speak up on women's rights in China, for fighting for the poor for much of her adult life. She worked as in on the ground personally) to break down segregation in schools in the south receiving public funds. She fought against sodomoy laws still on the books in the 90's. Yet she was always dogged by made up scandals and undue scrutiny for simply sticking up for other people. That stuff has taken a toll on her over her years as a civil servant and public life. Again even though it would be easy to fade off into the sunset she still is back up in the spotlight.
You have to understand her journey and her nature to see why she appears as she does now. She is a fighter, and someone who always gets back up even when not expedient to do so. That's why she jumped in with Obama's admin, why she has fought for gay rights even if she wasn't always on for full marriage recognition. Even after 9/11 she was one of the first and the loudest to get the framework and precursor to the 9/11 first responders bill. She actually went up against the Bush admin calling them out for lying to 1st responders over the quality of the air and dangers they experienced at the site of the WTC.
Is she perfect, no she has many flaws and has made mistakes. What I know her to be is someone who will fight for the smallest person in the room, no matter the cost to herself. Which is why i think she'll make a great President.
freeofgreed
Member
Then what is your issue? She is opposed to it....
Inferno313
Banned
Schattenjäger;218517560 said:
Can you elaborate on that? I'm not sure what you mean.
Wiz
Member
Yeah, I remember the few weeks where everyone was waiting for him to jump in, but due to his sons death he didn't.
I think Biden/Clinton would have been a very intense primary, with Biden winning (closely). But he would have beat Trump in a landslide. All these swing states would have easily went to Biden. Debates would have been a cakewalk.
But all that is for another timeline. Clinton it is.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Every other example I mentioned she changed her mind after making the intial decision for. This rare occasion she made the right decision first instead of changing her mind when polls told her to.
Anything you want me to clarify?
Inferno313
Banned
Sure. Do you always necessitate women behave and present themselves exactly the way you want them to, or do you just do that on the internet?
Hillary is too right-wing for my tastes. Like most Democrats, she holds a largely uncritical view of capitalism and imperialism, and there is no reason to suggest that she will provide the kind of meaningful change that our society needs. I find her connections to plutocrats at home and abroad to be disturbing, and don't expect her policies to substantially improve the quality of life of common people anywhere.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
mrhyderager
Member
The context for the emails is fairly inherent. How they were released is irrelevant.
Prove misconduct? The chair woman resigned. I think we're all fairly up-to-date on what a resignation implies amid scandal.
Let's also look at the reports of voter suppression and fraud throughout huge portions of the primary that went completely un-investigated. There are no reputable sources for those - because no reputable sources bothered to look. There was no formal investigation.
I've got no ground to stand on here, I'm aware of that. To me it's pretty self-evident that the DNC mishandled the primary. Perhaps I'm on my own there.
Muppet of a Man
Member
The Clintons, policy-wise, are Neoliberals, which are one step away from Neoconservatives on everything except social policies. They lean too conservative for me when it comes to fiscal and monetary policy, corporate law, and "free" trade.
I also have no faith in them furthering sustainable energy and infrastructure initiatives if they feel it will in any way hurt corporate profits (which it would likely do in the short to medium term due to higher corporate taxes needed to fund these initiatives and the displacing of entrenched industries like those related to fossil fuels).
I also have no faith in them furthering sustainable energy and infrastructure initiatives if they feel it will in any way hurt corporate profits (which it would likely do in the short to medium term due to higher corporate taxes needed to fund these initiatives and the displacing of entrenched industries like those related to fossil fuels).
RumblingRosco
Member
Iraq war, lack of understanding of cyber security, career politician, likely will provide favors to her constituents/donors when she becomes President, etc.
But, I mean... I would still take her over Trump.
But, I mean... I would still take her over Trump.
andythinkpad
Member
The only reason she didn't leave Clinton was because she wanted Bill help her launch her own political career.
Also, as a Yankee fan, this grossed me out greatly.
She could have been a lot more sincere and still get to where she is today but she chose to take the safe and shrewd routes.
While I am at it, this is what she did after Putin invaded Georgia
Also, as a Yankee fan, this grossed me out greatly.
She could have been a lot more sincere and still get to where she is today but she chose to take the safe and shrewd routes.
While I am at it, this is what she did after Putin invaded Georgia
Such a splendid smile lol.
What I was trying to say is she seems so forced into acting a certain way and she doesn't seem real and genuine. I'm not sure if she is truly not genuine or just in an attempt to be what is perceived as what a women president should be, she comes across as this weird closed super reserved stately women. I think that rubs people the wrong way me included, just be yourself. What I am trying to say is completely the opposite I what you said. I want her to stop behaving the way people want and be herself.
This was interesting actually. It makes me wonder if she became president whether she would loosen up and be herself a bit more.
John Kowalski
Banned
I've never even met her!
benjipwns
Banned
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkwwEPr-iyMAlso, as a Yankee fan, this grossed me out greatly.
Damerman
Member
Its articles like these that make me wish elizabeth warren was running for president.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
I don't get this at all. She's worked very hard to get to what she has made a public goal of hers. This is something everyone with ambition does. Is there something else I'm missing that would make you feel this way?Schattenjäger;218517560 said:
And then you would just have people complaining that she isn't Presidential enough because she is too loose, it is a lose lose situation.
DeathoftheEndless
Crashing this plane... with no survivors!
I read about a dozen of the emails in that link and they were laughably benign. I guess I'm not cynical enough to assume the worst about everything and believe in conspiracy theories.
andythinkpad
Member
Red Blaster
Member
foreign policy. why the fuck was she bragging about john negroponte's endorsement.
Exactly, that was why I said it's easier said than done. She so much as smiled the wrong way at a man and she would be up to her neck in scandal that she is trying to get back at Bill.
Inferno313
Banned
Frankly, it's really rather weird and low-key sexist that you'd suggest that you'd like her more if she showed a little more "sexuality," and that if this is the "real her" that you aren't a "big fan." You're doing exactly the same thing you're criticizing others of doing. Whether you know it or not, you're subtly suggesting that women are only valuable with a little sexuality, which is incredibly sexist.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
She's a politician and had been one far too long for her to enact any actual change. She is far too close with the big money in this country to ever give a shit about the general population.
I would love for her to prove me wrong but I'm expecting more of the same and fairly confident that's what we'll get
I would love for her to prove me wrong but I'm expecting more of the same and fairly confident that's what we'll get
andythinkpad
Member
If Rubio wasn't such a massive idiot, he could have been a real thread to stop the Clinton dynasty.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Being a Brit I'm not really close to any of this. But I suspect that a lot of it is because of her sheer longevity at the top of US politics.
Closest parallel I can think of is Winston Churchill, who was first a Cabinet minister in 1908 before eventually becoming Prime Minister 32 years later. In all that time he had accumulated rather a lot of mistrust by 1939 (which has of course mostly vanished with hindsight).
Most senior politicians just don't hang around long enough for things to catch up with them.
Closest parallel I can think of is Winston Churchill, who was first a Cabinet minister in 1908 before eventually becoming Prime Minister 32 years later. In all that time he had accumulated rather a lot of mistrust by 1939 (which has of course mostly vanished with hindsight).
Most senior politicians just don't hang around long enough for things to catch up with them.
Is that a problem? Was it a bad thing that FDR was serving in the government from 1911-1945? I don't understand why "experience" has become a dirty word.
Oh fuck off. You could not possible have taken this more the wrong way. I am trying to say she has every right to have sexuality. She should not hide being a women. She acts like a fucking robot because of the bullshit ass backwardness of the US to women and sexuality. I fully admit I do not like men or women that completely hide everything about themselve, with her I fully understand.
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