The Hamburglar
Banned
Haven't played ff7 in ages. Did Barrett really speak in Ebonics lol?
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Will Final Fantasy VII's Re-introduction (Remake) Be Praised For Diversity)?
- Thread starter SOLDIER
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Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I disagree, representation of a playable woman is always talked about. Like the costume design, camera treatment, writing, etc. just having a playable woman isn't the end goal but better representation as a whole.
Lights and Waves
Member
"Subverting tropes." "Barrett."
Did we play the same game?
Did we play the same game?
Whompa02
Member
If anything it will be lambasted for being culturally PC and restrained when compared to the original.
Also prepare for another decade of people clamoring for Turn Based Combat.
You really think Square Enix will let Barret be as culturally insensitive as he was for when it eventually drops?
Also prepare for another decade of people clamoring for Turn Based Combat.
You really think Square Enix will let Barret be as culturally insensitive as he was for when it eventually drops?
I don't know if it was "ebonics" but it was notably different than other characters:
Also, while I'm looking:
Hades Hotgun
Banned
Will there be a scene where Tifa and Aeris threaten to violently mutilate a rapist's genitals?
I would expect Square to turn both of them in to anime-trope waifus rather than have them be the irreverent ass kickers that they originally were.
FF7 was never any bastion of progressive thought, but Square had a long history of presenting great female characters in Final Fantasy. That all seems very far away now.
I would expect Square to turn both of them in to anime-trope waifus rather than have them be the irreverent ass kickers that they originally were.
FF7 was never any bastion of progressive thought, but Square had a long history of presenting great female characters in Final Fantasy. That all seems very far away now.
SolidSnakex
Member
I don't know if it was "ebonics" but it was notably different than other characters:
It was like Mr. T. From what i've read it was specifically done in the western translation and his character in Japan doesn't speak like that. But I don't know if that's true. However, there was a fan retranslation of the game scheduled where one of their goals was to fix Barrett's translation.
Ok ... 2 people. Do Barret family ever appear in the game ?
Still ... it feels like some white supremacists took control of the world a few years before
bitbydeath
Member
Urgh, that FF15 cast looks like a boy band which irks me everytime I see them.
This just isn't true.
Lights and Waves
Member
I do trust that Square will do fine with the writing for the females. Lightning, Fang, Serah, Ashe, Yuna, Lulu and Paine are all excellent examples of strong female leads in recent years.
The issue is that they take one step forward and two steps back when they do all the fanservice bullshit with these girls.
I really hope they keep the Tifa boob nonsense to a minimum.
The issue is that they take one step forward and two steps back when they do all the fanservice bullshit with these girls.
I really hope they keep the Tifa boob nonsense to a minimum.
Kind of is. It's been a while but I'm pretty sure 3 of the 4 people you have to interact with to win that sequence are painted as social or sexual deviants. The dress maker is the most normal one and he is NOT NORMAL.
SolidSnakex
Member
This is pretty much the opposite of what Nomura has said that the Remake will be.
WickedLaharl
Member
Jangowuzhere
Banned
He was literally based on Mr. T and Blaxploitation films of the era.
By the time Advent Children, they completely changed his character and appearance. Even they saw the racism in his original depiction.
The Hamburglar
Banned
Lmao I read all that with some angry black man voice. Dude was pissed but barret hard a hard life. Didn't cid speak quite similar though?
Barrets text is unironicially comical.
..the adopted non black daughter yes, of course.
Black people are the pandas of this universe
Don't think so.
The wig comes from a strong, female gym owner/boxer? Nothing off about her.
You get something from a shop owner that just wants you to scope out his competition.
Makeup from one of the workers at the Honeybee Inn. Nothing wrong with that.
I believe something for giving laxatives to someone on the toilet? Kind of a weird situation, but not really about the NPC personally.
The bathtub part is the only one that's really strange.
Sorry, but I don't trust Normura's word for shit nowadays.
They made Cid come off as kind of a hick. They have some similarities.
I don't think having an all male, homosocial friendship based playable cast is a bad or an objectionable idea. That is a certain sort of experience that is perfectly fine to explore in a story. I can get not wanting that, especially from Final Fantasy, which has a history of having some of the best liked female characters in gaming and has a sizable female fanbase, but cries that it is somehow wrong miss the mark. Criticism of the way female characters do appear in the story is one thing; criticism of there not being any female characters in the playable cast is another.
That is generally the thing with diversity in gaming--it is a matter of global patterns, rather than that every game ought to have a diverse cast, and what you do with the minorities you do represent. I'd say diversity in wider (playable and past playable) cast becomes an issue when, say, you are in a real world or fantasy setting that is diverse and your game isn't. Science fiction based off a hypothetical earth future has no excuse for a lack of diversity, for example, or at least any explanation it were to give would have to be pretty dodgy. Or say your game takes place in Chicago which is about 33% White/Black/Hispanic each. It would be white washing to make that game all white.
...
As to FFVII, I don't think it was particularly diverse for a Final Fantasy. FF tends to have a range of ages and sizable female representation as well as monster characters. Really the only thing that stands out is Barrett and I loved him as a kid, but he is mostly a walking stereotype although as you point out at least he does have a recognizably human inner life and a backstory that feeds into that, so he's not a complete caricature.
That is generally the thing with diversity in gaming--it is a matter of global patterns, rather than that every game ought to have a diverse cast, and what you do with the minorities you do represent. I'd say diversity in wider (playable and past playable) cast becomes an issue when, say, you are in a real world or fantasy setting that is diverse and your game isn't. Science fiction based off a hypothetical earth future has no excuse for a lack of diversity, for example, or at least any explanation it were to give would have to be pretty dodgy. Or say your game takes place in Chicago which is about 33% White/Black/Hispanic each. It would be white washing to make that game all white.
...
As to FFVII, I don't think it was particularly diverse for a Final Fantasy. FF tends to have a range of ages and sizable female representation as well as monster characters. Really the only thing that stands out is Barrett and I loved him as a kid, but he is mostly a walking stereotype although as you point out at least he does have a recognizably human inner life and a backstory that feeds into that, so he's not a complete caricature.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
You ever get the impression that our age is under the self-delusion that it invented diversity in media?
You can go back to the 90s, 80s, 70s and even 60s and find examples of media co-starring blacks and whites and Asians and both genders.... but today when they put an ethnically diverse cast in something, everyone pats themselves on the back for being so progressive.
The goal is admirable, but we're so cloying in our approach to this topic.
You can go back to the 90s, 80s, 70s and even 60s and find examples of media co-starring blacks and whites and Asians and both genders.... but today when they put an ethnically diverse cast in something, everyone pats themselves on the back for being so progressive.
The goal is admirable, but we're so cloying in our approach to this topic.
"Lookit all dat juice" - Barret Wallace
Best FF7 girl.
It's not, actually.
So far the only carryover from the FFXV team is Roberto Ferrari, who designed Cindy.
Yeah, I know, not entirely encouraging, but so far he seems to be doing it right judging by Jessie.
Best FF7 girl.
Bad stereotype or not, he at least had personality - a great, charismatic one in fact.
They have the potential if
1. They "fix" Barrett to be a normal person not a caricature in terms of dialogue and whatnot.
2. They don't completely turn Tifa into blatant fanservice. She's never really been that bad in post 7 appearances (at least that I can remember), so hopefully they don't actually ruin her.
1. They "fix" Barrett to be a normal person not a caricature in terms of dialogue and whatnot.
2. They don't completely turn Tifa into blatant fanservice. She's never really been that bad in post 7 appearances (at least that I can remember), so hopefully they don't actually ruin her.
to the surprise of nobody. it's a jrpg
Well I mean, context is important. This game came out twenty years ago where the social climate towards LGBT was vastly different. Holding it to a modern standard is ridiculous.
But beyond that and having just replayed it, there are definitely problematic aspects; but I fail to see how a heterosexual male being forced to dress up for a male pimp and being incredibly uncomfortable doing so, is transphobic or homophobic.
The wig comes from a muscled drag queen that ask you to a squat competition.
Also,
=|
Like I said, it can be done properly .. I just don't trust them to do it.
It is not the cloud being uncomfortable doing so, it is how it is played as a joke, like if every single person seeing as male by society would only dress as a bad thing
I hope they don't get too PC with Barrett. He was great!
Considering the language they could have chosen to use, that's pretty freakin mild.
And again, this was 1996. Cross-dressing was (sadly) strictly considered funny and/or weird.
Yeah, being forbidden to enter a place because of how you dressed once is pretty freakin mild =P
Like I said, the quest CAN be made tastefully ... I just don't trust them to do it that way.
What world do you live ?
Also ... you will be pretty popular here =P
Icyflamez96
Member
Ayeeeee
ShockingAlberto
Member
Oh cool, I am sure this meeting of various arguments will turn out great.
Who is the best diverse character, the guy written like Mr. T specifically because he was black or the girl who gets a panty shot when she's knocked out and then immediately gets in a slap fight with a woman in a dress?
Who is the best diverse character, the guy written like Mr. T specifically because he was black or the girl who gets a panty shot when she's knocked out and then immediately gets in a slap fight with a woman in a dress?
Yabberwocky
Member
Barret's gone from Mr. T to Blade, so it'll be interesting. The whole remake in general will be interesting. I'm still quite wary about how they'll handle Tifa. FFVII:R has to now beat the high standard set by the glory that is WoFF's Tifa. Impress me, Remake!
Barret's definitely one of my favourites, too. I may have spent my first playthrough of FFVII being mean to poor Tifa so she'd get together with Barret, as I though they were really cute together. Didn't work, still bitter. (Well, I thought they were together at the beginning of the game, and then Tifa starting hitting on Cloud. 'Tifa, what are you doing? What about Barret? Tifa?!')
I never used to be that worried about FF localizing, but after Type-0 and FFXV... argh. I mean, not that VII/VIII were perfect localizations, but it was a lot easier to ignore when there weren't realistic character models and voice actors accompanying the dialogue.
Barret's definitely one of my favourites, too. I may have spent my first playthrough of FFVII being mean to poor Tifa so she'd get together with Barret, as I though they were really cute together. Didn't work, still bitter. (Well, I thought they were together at the beginning of the game, and then Tifa starting hitting on Cloud. 'Tifa, what are you doing? What about Barret? Tifa?!')
I never used to be that worried about FF localizing, but after Type-0 and FFXV... argh. I mean, not that VII/VIII were perfect localizations, but it was a lot easier to ignore when there weren't realistic character models and voice actors accompanying the dialogue.
Icyflamez96
Member
Lmao I hope they keep him mostly like this.
"Yo skinny ass workin for AVALANCHE now!"
uncredited male
Member
Well Lightning will be in it so maybe they will add Sazh too.
Messofanego
Banned
I don't believe people of this age think they invented diversity in media. Caring about diversity in media has been going back for a while now, not just this generation. Especially from the 70s onwards, when media studies became popular. Thanks to the internet, the voices are louder so it seems that everyone has their say about diversity and representation.
We can describe every game since.... forever like that.
hydrophilic attack
Member
Maybe that is precisely the problem?
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