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[hydrophilic attack]

I feel like criticism about the crossdressing part being insensitive sort of misses the point. So what happened is that Cloud needed to crossdress and felt uncomfortable about that. But when finding the stuff needed to do crossdress, it turned out that a lot of people in the town had stuff needed for crossdressing. So the joke is that this thing that the characters thought were a bit weird actually was very common in that town. A lot of people turned out to be closeted crossdressers! This subversion of expectations is almost progressive!

 

[zbarron]

Did anyone else think Jessie was a boy when they originally played the game?

 

[SOLDIER]

He was literally based on Mr. T and Blaxploitation films of the era.

Other than the thinly-related story of a black man trying to take down a corrupt corporation owned by a white man, where were the other blaxploitation elements? Was his theme a jazzy 70's rendition? Did he have a three-way with Tifa and Aerith in a hot tub? Was he the main character?

Luke Cage is far more blaxploitative by comparison, and no one seems to be complaining about that series (not like they should, it's pretty great).

"Subverting tropes." "Barrett."

Did we play the same game?

Not only do his guns-blazing, machismo-fueled antics result in his friends and an entire city getting killed, he ends up having to put down his insane best friend, whose daughter he was raising to that point. He then reaches the end of the story realizing that in the end he was a terrorist driven by hate that only ended up harming the planet he swore to protect rather than help it.

So stereotypical!

 

[Wvrs]

I don't think there's anything wrong with Barrett speaking in AA vernacular. Perhaps it could be written a bit better (okay, a lot better), but we don't need him to be using standard English just as we don't need Cid to be. Language variation adds flavour to characters.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

I feel like criticism about the crossdressing part being insensitive sort of misses the point. So what happened is that Cloud needed to crossdress and felt uncomfortable about that. But when finding the stuff needed to do crossdress, it turned out that a lot of people in the town had stuff needed for crossdressing. So the joke is that this thing that the characters thought were a bit weird actually was very common in that town. A lot of people turned out to be closeted crossdressers! This subversion of expectations is almost progressive!

That's a very generous interpretation of a sequence which almost certainly came out of someone saying "Wouldn't it be funny to make Cloud dress like a girl?"

 

[Sesha]

It's probably the most diverse JRPG, which means nothing.

Wrong on both accounts.

 

[L Thammy]

Luke Cage is far more blaxploitative by comparison

I would imagine so.

Luke Cage was created by Archie Goodwin and John Romita, Sr. shortly after Blaxploitation films emerged as a popular new genre.

 

[SOLDIER]

I would imagine so.

And yet people would rage if they tried to turn away from that for a modern audience.

But somehow Barret is more offensive despite being far less explicit in concept.

 

[ZangBa]

The wig comes from a muscled drag queen that ask you to a squat competition.

But what exactly is wrong with that? Nothing about the situation was demeaning or transphobic. In fact, he was treated with respect by everyone there.

 

[Hubb]

Kind of is. It's been a while but I'm pretty sure 3 of the 4 people you have to interact with to win that sequence are painted as social or sexual deviants. The dress maker is the most normal one and he is NOT NORMAL.

Sorry I just watched the segment on youtube to make sure I'm not remembering it wrong, but I stand by my comment. It isn't true.

 

[Balb]

Not only do his guns-blazing, machismo-fueled antics result in his friends and an entire city getting killed, he ends up having to put down his insane best friend, whose daughter he was raising to that point. He then reaches the end of the story realizing that in the end he was a terrorist driven by hate that only ended up harming the planet he swore to protect rather than help it.

So stereotypical!

I don't really get this. None of your summary counters the notion that he's a very blatant stereotype and that his dialogue is beyond awful.

 

[SOLDIER]

I don't really get this. None of your summary counters the notion that he's a very blatant stereotype and that his dialogue is beyond awful.

It's solidifying my claim that there's more to the character beyond "big black man who resembles Mr T".

 

[afternoon delight]

lol, perfect.

 

[Mik317]

it will end up as a game that pleases no one.

Too many changes pisses off the diehards (many of which are already mad with the action focus)
Too little changes pisses off others due to the game being a product of its time in a lot of ways.

IMO the kooky shit in FFVII is a major part of what makes it great...but many of said kooky shit...doesn't fly nowadays.

so it is a dilemma.

 

[butman]

XIII was not diverse too?

 

[SolVanderlyn]

it will end up as a game that pleases no one.

Too many changes pisses off the diehards (many of which are already mad with the action focus)
Too little changes pisses off others due to the game being a product of its time in a lot of ways.

IMO the kooky shit in FFVII is a major part of what makes it great...but many of said kooky shit...doesn't fly nowadays.

so it is a dilemma.

This is sort of true. Some people are going to be upset no matter how the remake is handled. It's also one of the reasons SE was so hesitant to make it for so long. On the other hand, it's going to make a lot of people very happy on its basic premise alone and it will almost definitely sell like hotcakes.

Re: diversity: I don't think it will fall under attack for whitewashing or lack of representation like FFXV has, but some who are further left on the spectrum will inevitably be upset with Barret and Tifa if they're anything like their original incarnations. Barret for being a stereotype and Tifa for being a blatantly sexualized character. I mean, people are upset about them now. On the other hand, a separate group of people will ALSO be upset if they're not like their original incarnations. Some people found Barret hilarious, and then you have those who enjoyed Tifa's sexiness. Win one crowd, lose another. FFVII-R is a dangerous game for devs to be involved in, haha.

I personally think both characters will be toned down slightly, but retain the spirit of the originals in ways that aren't potentially offensive. Barret can still sound like a black man without his text being written in ebonics, and Tifa will most likely look like her toned down subsequent appearances in the VII-verse. That's what I'm hoping for, and I think the general reaction will be mostly positive if they do go that route.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

It's not going to be appreciably different from the original I'd imagine. Anyway

titty mc tittersdaughter

I'm satisfied

 

[Cid Highwind]

Barrett's Ebonics and slang were a result of the English localization, not the original. Judging by the sentence he says in the trailer it seems like that's already been fixed.

 

[Corpekata]

And yet people would rage if they tried to turn away from that for a modern audience.

But somehow Barret is more offensive despite being far less explicit in concept.

Uh.

They just did exactly that with Luke Cage. The Netflix show stars a Cage that is very different from his comic origins. There's still elements of it there but he's not talking like "Gotta get my money honey" or like taking on Doctor Doom because Doom stiffed him 200 dollars.

This is a terrible example for you to use because it's an example of how the character has changed over the years and doesn't talk like Barret anymore, and hasn't for like the past decade of comics. He absolutely has been toned down.

 

[Big0Bear]

I'm happy to see one of the few black males in a jrpg show up again but this isn't going to change anything imo. Sadly Japan rarely takes chances making more diverse characters, recently they've been staying with the same old cliches

 

[Wazzy]

Barret was incredibly offensive in the NA version and any kind of defense for it is ridiculous. They were able to translate Kiros properly in VIII and he's a good character.

Also anyone who thinks they won't turn up the fanservice on Tifa is deluded. She had plenty of jiggle shots in the original and her outfit will always be ridiculous. Not only that but her entire role in the game is for Cloud which is not a good thing. Aerith is a problem too but at least she has other goals in the game that don't just revolve around Cloud.

 

[SOLDIER]

This is sort of true. Some people are going to be upset no matter how the remake is handled. It's also one of the reasons SE was so hesitant to make it for so long. On the other hand, it's going to make a lot of people very happy on its basic premise alone and it will almost definitely sell like hotcakes.

Re: diversity: I don't think it will fall under attack for whitewashing or lack of representation like FFXV has, but some who are further left on the spectrum will inevitably be upset with Barret and Tifa if they're anything like their original incarnations. Barret for being a stereotype and Tifa for being a blatantly sexualized character. I mean, people are upset about them now. On the other hand, a separate group of people will ALSO be upset if they're not like their original incarnations. Some people found Barret hilarious, and then you have those who enjoyed Tifa's sexiness. Win one crowd, lose another. FFVII-R is a dangerous game for devs to be involved in, haha.

I personally think both characters will be toned down slightly, but retain the spirit of the originals in ways that aren't potentially offensive. Barret can still sound like a black man without his text being written in ebonics, and Tifa will most likely look like her toned down subsequent appearances in the VII-verse. That's what I'm hoping for, and I think the general reaction will be mostly positive if they do go that route.

I said this way back, but I still firmly believe the best thing SE could do with the FFVII Remake is to largely ignore the fanbase and make whatever they think is best.

I like to think the majority share my opinion in that Barret and Tifa were well-developed characters: having problematic elements doesn't necessarily make them problematic characters. Simply doing away with something like this would go a long way to fixing the poorly thought-out moments from the game. That's precisely what they did with Advent Children, and there was hardly anyone who didn't praise the choice.

But there's still a vocal amount of people who want the character to be as masturbatory as possible with her depiction. Are they a big enough group that Square will have to oblige them in some form? Hopefully not.

So assuming they can achieve an acceptable balance for these characters and remove most of the outdated elements from the story, I do believe a new audience can come to appreciate FFVII's cast the same way so many fans did back in 1997.

 

[Godcannon]

After reading all of the comments I completely forgot what I just read in the OP, seems like most are really stretching or over analyzing. Except this....this is a thing of beauty.

You know square is literally incapable of making a decent male or female these days

LOL.


I totally get that, but man the trailers look good, and very faithful to the original. I think having to follow the original is the best chance of keeping SE and Nomura in check, even if he's already started Kingdom Heartsing the combat (please be atb hybrid and not dull button masher!!) Anyways, getting distracted(I get the other comments now!!!)....

Absolutely one of the best things about FFVII is the amazingly diverse cast with rich stories behind them, obviously my favorite one was the native American firecatwolf. Truth is, we don't enough right now, but if they follow the original like they SHOULD, and even add a little more story for the supporting cast, then I can definitely see a discussion in the future or hell even a bump to this thread to reflect on how rich and balanced the characters are, and how important that is in games.

UNITY PEOPLE. UNITEEEEEEE.

 

[ponpo]

Barret was incredibly offensive in the NA version and any kind of defense for it is ridiculous. They were able to translate Kiros properly in VIII and he's a good character.

Also anyone who thinks they won't turn up the fanservice on Tifa is deluded. She had plenty of jiggle shots in the original and her outfit will always be ridiculous. Not only that but her entire role in the game is for Cloud which is not a good thing. Aerith is a problem too but at least she has other goals in the game that don't just revolve around Cloud.

They could probably hear the Vice Gaming articles years in advance and tone it down for that reason.

Or just give her the superior Advent Children outfit.

 

[Skilletor]

And yet people would rage if they tried to turn away from that for a modern audience.

But somehow Barret is more offensive despite being far less explicit in concept.

Probably because Barrett is all of the worst parts of the genre and Luke Cage has been adapted and updated. Barret is the only person in the game who even talks like that. It's offensive. It's a stereotype. It's fucking stupid.

 

[Godcannon]

Probably because Barrett is all of the worst parts of the genre and Luke Cage has been adapted and updated. Barret is the only person in the game who even talks like that. It's offensive. It's a stereotype. It's fucking stupid.

Well, aren't they in the process of adapting and updating Barrett? Your comparing a 20 year old Japanese translated script vs a brand new American TV show? This comment is more offensive IMO. Ugh whatever, I loved Barrett, my black friends love Barrett, and I refuse to empathize with this garbage "controversy". Shits gonna be OK, regardless of what a few overly sensitive people think.

 

[SOLDIER]

They could probably hear the Vice Gaming articles years in advance and tone it down for that reason.

Or just give her the superior Advent Children outfit.

Got a link to said article?

 

[LordGorchnik]

<----Can't wait for Tifa to have her original outfit in the remake.

Hell if the E3 teaser trailers are anything to go by everyone has looked the same so far. Barrett just put some glasses on.

 

[NathanS]

It's solidifying my claim that there's more to the character beyond "big black man who resembles Mr T".

Who can justify in the narrative even with great writing, why your only black character (in that game) is an Angry Black Man(tm) but it don't change that you made your only black character an Angry Black Man(tm).

 

[DriftingSpirit]

Crying.

 

[True Fire]

It'll be interesting to see what reviewers say about Aerith getting stuffed in the fridge. It's the type of plot twist that would cause an internet shitstorm if it happened in a mainline Final Fantasy game in 2016.

 

[Mediking]

Probably because Barrett is all of the worst parts of the genre and Luke Cage has been adapted and updated. Barret is the only person in the game who even talks like that. It's offensive. It's a stereotype. It's fucking stupid.

Agreed. Barret can still be the same guy and have some dignity. Write the man better.

 

[Izuna]

Yes?

uhhh

 

[yunbuns]

This comment is more offensive IMO. Ugh whatever, I loved Barrett, my black friends love Barrett, and I refuse to empathize with this garbage "controversy". Shits gonna be OK, regardless of what a few overly sensitive people think.

You can like a character and still acknowledge the problematic aspects of their character. He was a stereotype of black people and SE probably finally got a clue which is why he sounds and talks completely different in the few clips we have seen of him in the remake compared to how he's been portrayed in the entire compilation.

Also just because you have some black friends that like Barret doesn't mean they suddenly speak for all black people and the rest of us can't be offended/dislike the way Barret was because we're just 'oversensitive'. Besides it's not like SE has a good track record with black guys recently either. (Ex. Sazh).

 

[duckroll]

It'll be interesting to see what reviewers say about Aerith getting stuffed in the fridge. It's the type of plot twist that would cause an internet shitstorm if it happened in a mainline Final Fantasy game in 2016.

I... don't think so? I mean it's not like she's the only female character in the party even. It's really a non-issue.

 

[SOLDIER]

It'll be interesting to see what reviewers say about Aerith getting stuffed in the fridge. It's the type of plot twist that would cause an internet shitstorm if it happened in a mainline Final Fantasy game in 2016.

Add "fridged" to those list of terms people toss without knowing their actual meaning.

 

[sjay1994]

Man, why does it always feel like people are grilling on my fascination of what it would be like to be a boyband with FF15.

 

[shintoki]

You have the token black guy and the rest fall into the anime trope... I'm not seeing what is there to praise.

 

[ponpo]

It'll be interesting to see what reviewers say about Aerith getting stuffed in the fridge. It's the type of plot twist that would cause an internet shitstorm if it happened in a mainline Final Fantasy game in 2016.

Huh? What's wrong with her dying?

 

[Ruff]

Wait... Rude is black?


I thought he was a Bald white guy.

I have to go rethink some things.

 

[SoundPulse]

Until we either have the game or at least see more of it, there's really no way to say. I imagine they'll dial Barrett way back from where he was in the NA version. I could see Tifa staying the same or getting her bust size toned down a smidgen. I'd prefer the AC outfit, though, to be honest.

I'm actually really interested in seeing how much or how little changes. There's a lot of more comedic aspects (Obligatory mention of Red XIII pretending to be a soldier) to the original game that I can't really see staying. Things like seeing Cloud beat the shit out of Aerith in modern graphics also probably wouldn't fly without at least a few raised eyebrows. I'm half expecting this to go full Rebuild of Final Fantasy VII rather than be an actual straight up FFVII remake.

 

[Jangowuzhere]

Other than the thinly-related story of a black man trying to take down a corrupt corporation owned by a white man, where were the other blaxploitation elements? Was his theme a jazzy 70's rendition? Did he have a three-way with Tifa and Aerith in a hot tub? Was he the main character?

Luke Cage is far more blaxploitative by comparison, and no one seems to be complaining about that series (not like they should, it's pretty great).



Not only do his guns-blazing, machismo-fueled antics result in his friends and an entire city getting killed, he ends up having to put down his insane best friend, whose daughter he was raising to that point. He then reaches the end of the story realizing that in the end he was a terrorist driven by hate that only ended up harming the planet he swore to protect rather than help it.

So stereotypical!

Maybe you skimmed over all the pictures in this thread of him talking like a stereotypical 70s black man. He's the only one who talks like that in the game as far as I know. There is an original arc dedicated to his character, but his general mannerisms and way of acting is definitely shitty. It's obvious that stuff could have been handled way better.

 

[duckroll]

You have the token black guy and the rest fall into the anime trope... I'm not seeing what is there to praise.

The game has two animal party members. True diversity! Omg!!!!

 

[ZangBa]

It'll be interesting to see what reviewers say about Aerith getting stuffed in the fridge. It's the type of plot twist that would cause an internet shitstorm if it happened in a mainline Final Fantasy game in 2016.

Everyone always forgets about Galuf.

 

[Skilletor]

Well, aren't they in the process of adapting and updating Barrett? Your comparing a 20 year old Japanese translated script vs a brand new American TV show? This comment is more offensive IMO. Ugh whatever, I loved Barrett, my black friends love Barrett, and I refuse to empathize with this garbage "controversy". Shits gonna be OK, regardless of what a few overly sensitive people think.

Oh, your black friends loved Barret? Lol. Fuck out of here with that noise.

I'm black. I loved Barret, but I was a teenager and didn't understand the implications of what I was reading. I'm a grown ass man now and I expect better of how people like me are depicted in media because there are precious few of us that aren't caricatures. I'm not commenting on what they're going to do with Barret. I don't know. I'm commenting on what he was like in the original game. There's definitely a good character underneath the awful stereotypes. I hope they do him justice.

I didn't even bring up Luke Cage. I'm not the one comparing them. I'm offering the difference.

 

[ponpo]

Until we either have the game or at least see more of it, there's really no way to say. I imagine they'll dial Barrett way back from where he was in the NA version. I could see Tifa staying the same or getting her bust size toned down a smidgen. I'd prefer the AC outfit, though, to be honest.

I'm actually really interested in seeing how much or how little changes. There's a lot of more comedic aspects (Obligatory mention of Red XIII pretending to be a soldier) to the original game that I can't really see staying. Things like seeing Cloud beat the shit out of Aerith in modern graphics also probably wouldn't fly without at least a few raised eyebrows. I'm half expecting this to go full Rebuild of Final Fantasy VII rather than be an actual straight up FFVII remake.

Some of the lighter comedic stuff translated well enough in Advent Children, specifically how the Turks acted.

Though maybe Elena won't go rolling down a hill when you dodge her punch at Icicle Inn.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Barret was incredibly offensive in the NA version and any kind of defense for it is ridiculous. They were able to translate Kiros properly in VIII and he's a good character.

Also anyone who thinks they won't turn up the fanservice on Tifa is deluded. She had plenty of jiggle shots in the original and her outfit will always be ridiculous. Not only that but her entire role in the game is for Cloud which is not a good thing. Aerith is a problem too but at least she has other goals in the game that don't just revolve around Cloud.

I highly doubt it for the obvious reasons, especially outside of Japan. I also think that could be another contributing factor for the rather unusual decision to include an all male cast in FF15.

 

[Joyful]

if barret isnt still a mr t ripoff im not buyin it

 

[Hubb]

I highly doubt it for the obvious reasons, especially outside of Japan. I also think that could be another contributing factor for the rather unusual decision to include an all male cast in FF15.

Didn't stop them doing Cindy like Cindy.

 

[Kssio_Aug]

If they change the fact that Barret is basicaly the last black man alive in the world of FF7 and is not treated in a good way, change how the cutscenes treat Tifa, the rape insinuations of aerith and red13 and the transphobic/homophobic clusterfuck of the honey inn quest... MAYBE ?

Also, Yuffie is a secret character that will probably be only avaliable in the later episodes

Huuh... I think you're looking waay to much into it!

Maybe I was just too naive when I played it, but:
1- Barret was one of my favorite characters;
2- I could never ever notice any rape insinuation;
3- I found that Cloud sequence just funny, not transphobic or homophobic in any way.