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Jay Z Becomes The First Rapper Nominated For The Song Writers Hall Of Fame

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T

theignoramus

Member
K.Jack said:
It's one of my favorite hip-hop albums of all time, actually.



Jay makes amazing music. Still isn't a GOAT lyricist.

Just so we're on the same page, what do you consider to be some of his absolute best verses.

p.s. - It's straight bullshit to pull out the "people don't acknowledge his lyricism because he's so popular" argument. How do you not realize, that some the rappers others would put in over him were just as popular?
Click to expand...
Just follow @JayZClassicBars on twitter. Jay is a national treasure as a poet. I aint down with the lyrical miracle school of thought who think verbosity in your bars is the height of great lyricism. Jay is clever, illustrative & straight to the point with his bars. A man could live a life code just from a book of Hov bars

"Bills that I DO fold, I now invest / on tryna find some loopholes in the I-R-S"

"You give a nigga a foot he'll take you one step beyond / He'll try to play you twice, the third time is the charm"

"Bitch I'm red-hot, I'm on my 3rd 6 but a devil I'm not/ My Jesus-piece flooded but thou shall not covet

"It gets te-di-ous/So I keep one eye open like C-B-S"

"Faced with immeasurable odds, still I gave straight bets/ So I felt I'm owed something, and you nothing...CHECK!"
 
V

Village

Member
Bounceounce said:
Jay's main talent is his lyricism.
.
Click to expand...
...i guess it speaks for itself then when he went up against a real lyricist he was handed his ass huh.

If jay z's talent is his lyrics....sheesh.

His talent is that he's a businessman. That isnt an insult, he said himself rapping circles around dudes dont get you hits. He surrounds himself with people who can produce hits all the while pushing a rap mob boss persona allowing him to come across as this god father figure

The man is a beast at marketing...rapping... Hes aiight at best.
 
I

Infinite

Member
Village said:
When he stops being wack most of the time I'll stop.

The mans strength is having talented friends. And presenting himself through those people more talented than he actually is. He said it himself , "hes not a business man, hes a business man"
Click to expand...

Nas has two good albums out of his whole catalog. Jay on the other hand has been consistent through out. fallback
 
B

Bounceounce

Member
K.Jack said:
It's one of my favorite hip-hop albums of all time, actually.



Jay makes amazing music. Still isn't a GOAT lyricist.

Just so we're on the same page, what do you consider to be some of his absolute best verses.

p.s. - It's straight bullshit to pull out the "people don't acknowledge his lyricism because he's so popular" argument. How do you not realize, that some the rappers others would put in over him were just as popular?
Click to expand...
No it isn't straight bullshit, more than any rapper in history Jay Z is known for his business success and ginormous bank account, and as the result of that, when someone pops up to give him praise choruses of people will jump to claim that he's only placed on that level because of those things and his radio success.

Jay to hordes of people, represents everything wrong with hip hop,and not only that but they don't see him as quote on quote "real", he's a snake, he's Illuminati, he's just some Camel who latched himself onto Biggies tittie and rode into the game stealing enough lyrics to fill the entirety of his discography in a 20 year long career.

(Plus he's reached past the underdog phase and became the boss so people want to see him fail and deny his ability)

So it doesn't matter if said other rappers are popular, as long as they don't have an issue with their image (whether it's truly better or not), like with Biggie or Pac who were killed, or if the rapper was an underground MC like Big L who was also killed,or whatever else.
Jay obviously gets lyrical credit, he's too successful to not, but there's a large segment of the population who throw him more flack than he deserves and plug their ears to his music because of everything other than the actual lyricism.

And on lyrical performances, I see it over the course of his enter career so I can't single anything out as being above and beyond, but I could give you examples as long as you're willing to listen to the songs the lyrics came from (because flow and beat is important), and sit on them to search for things you'd miss in a quick glance at the song.
 
V

Village

Member
Hip Hop said:
If that's what you think, than you don't know anything about Hip-Hop.

That's fine on your opinion I guess, but the majority of people do consider them "GOAT level", and rightfully so.
Click to expand...
Or he has taste.

By the way I like and listen to Jay. Jay is kinda wack. Also i dunno where the majority metric you drawing from. Because you know and I know if a majority vote decided anything eminems " still using gay slurs in 2016" ass would be number one everything whether we belive it or not. And im sure neither of us belive that
 
V

Village

Member
Infinite said:
Nas has two good albums out of his whole catalog. Jay on the other hand has been consistent through out. fallback
Click to expand...
I mean if you think that thats fine, but there are plenty of other non nas rappers better than jay.

Hell I think kanye is a better musician than jay.
 
K

K.Jack

Knowledge is power, guard it well
Hip Hop said:
If that's what you think, than you don't know anything about Hip-Hop.
Click to expand...
Knowing a few things about Hip-Hop allows me to quickly think of 10 dudes with better bars than Jay.

I don't see why people take this as me dissing Jay. Dude can obviously spit well. His bars just aren't Top 10 all time, which is where you have to land to be in the GOAT conversation.

GAF-Hop please save me.
 
T

theignoramus

Member
Village said:
...i guess it speaks for itself then when he went up against a real lyricist he was handed his ass huh.

If jay z's talent is his lyrics....sheesh.

His talent is that he's a businessman. That isnt an insult, he said himself rapping circles around dudes dont get you hits. He surrounds himself with people who can produce hits all the while pushing a rap mob boss persona allowing him to come across as this god father figure

The man is a beast at marketing...rapping... Hes aiight at best.
Click to expand...
Nas won that battle cause his diss was more vulgar & personally insulting, it wasnt more lyrical than Takeover at all.
 
T

theignoramus

Member
K.Jack said:
Knowing a few things about Hip-Hop allows me to quickly think of 10 dudes with better bars than Jay.

I don't see why people take this as me dissing Jay. Dude can obviously spit well. His bars just aren't Top 10 all time, which is where you have to land to be in the GOAT conversation.

GAF-Hop please save me.
Click to expand...

So name them. I mean GZA is one the greatest lyricists of all time, but apart from one album, he couldnt carry a song to save his life. That matters.
 
Q

qcf x2

Member
theignoramus said:
Just follow @JayZClassicBars on twitter. Jay is a national treasure as a poet. I aint down with the lyrical miracle school of thought who think verbosity in your bars is the height of great lyricism. Jay is clever, illustrative & straight to the point with his bars. A man could live a life code just from a book of Hov bars

"Bills that I DO fold, I now invest / on tryna find some loopholes in the I-R-S"

"You give a nigga a foot he'll take you one step beyond / He'll try to play you twice, the third time is the charm"

"Bitch I'm red-hot, I'm on my 3rd 6 but a devil I'm not/ My Jesus-piece flooded but thou shall not covet

"It gets te-di-ous/So I keep one eye open like C-B-S"

"Faced with immeasurable odds, still I gave straight bets/ So I felt I'm owed something, and you nothing...CHECK!"
Click to expand...

Wow such bars. lol. One thing about superfans is they find lines like these to be "life code" material, lol. Make sure u keep one eye open... like C-B-S!

On the real, Jay-Z in his prime (which was Reasonable Doubt) was nice. Jay-Z as a businessman was HoF worthy. As a songwriter? Ignoring that he supposedly doesn't ever WRITE his songs, I mean sure... it's one of those things where the people voting probably don't know too many rappers and didn't want to elect Eminem first for optics purposes.

To me you can't be considered a gifted songwriter if you can't cover an array of subjects with lyrical excellence. We all know his modus operandi: he's proud of selling crack to black people and proud of the money he's got.
 
S

Syphon Filter

Member
qcf x2 said:
Wow such bars. lol. One thing about superfans is they find lines like these to be "life code" material, lol. Make sure u keep one eye open... like C-B-S!

On the real, Jay-Z in his prime (which was Reasonable Doubt) was nice. Jay-Z as a businessman was HoF worthy. As a songwriter? Ignoring that he supposedly doesn't ever WRITE his songs, I mean sure... it's one of those things where the people voting probably don't know too many rappers and didn't want to elect Eminem first for optics purposes.
Click to expand...

How is RD his prime when he was just starting out? He was still in his prime with BP and at least up till the black album.
 
A

Aizen.S.Kennedy

Banned
Ppl always wanna downplay hov's lyricism smd( shaking my dreads). I love nas too but my dude has equal amounts classic/trash albums. Streets deciple?? Nastradamous?? The nigger album?? Life is good?? Gods son?? Ugh like 3-4 hot joints on each of those. That's like one good album stretched out over 5.

And most if not all of the other rappers ppl are saying( even tho they aren't naming names) should get it first don't have a consistent output of amazing SONGS. I'm not saying hov is the best to ever do it but damn he is a good choice an and excellent place to start.
 
T

theignoramus

Member
qcf x2 said:
Wow such bars. lol. One thing about superfans is they find lines like these to be "life code" material, lol. Make sure u keep one eye open... like C-B-S!

On the real, Jay-Z in his prime (which was Reasonable Doubt) was nice. Jay-Z as a businessman was HoF worthy. As a songwriter? Ignoring that he supposedly doesn't ever WRITE his songs, I mean sure... it's one of those things where the people voting probably don't know too many rappers and didn't want to elect Eminem first for optics purposes.

To me you can't be considered a gifted songwriter if you can't cover an array of subjects with lyrical excellence. We all know his modus operandi: he's proud of selling crack to black people and proud of the money he's got.
Click to expand...

You'll just invent some arbitrary and forever expanding definition of "array of subjects" if I give you examples.

Have even heard Meet the Parents? December 4th? Where I'm From? Soon Youll Understand? I doubt it.
Now list your examples of outstanding lyricism, so I can pick it apart & laugh at it.
 
S

Syphon Filter

Member
Aizen.S.Kennedy said:
Ppl always wanna downplay hov's lyricism smd( shaking my dreads). I love nas too but my dude has equal amounts classic/trash albums. Streets deciple?? Nastradamous?? The nigger album?? Life is good?? Gods son?? Ugh like 3-4 hot joints on each of those. That's like one good album stretched out over 5.

And most if not all of the other rappers ppl are saying( even tho they aren't naming names) should get it first don't have a consistent output of amazing SONGS. I'm not saying hov is the best to ever do it but damn he is a good choice an and excellent place to start.
Click to expand...

All of those are good albums, there is more than 4 good joints on them.
 
F

Fluvian

Banned
I'm as casual as rap fans come and even I can tell this isn't right. Not to take anything away fom Jay Z he's written some great shit over the years, I can just think of way better candidates and I'm barely into rap.
 
B

Bounceounce

Member
qcf x2 said:
Wow such bars. lol. One thing about superfans is they find lines like these to be "life code" material, lol. Make sure u keep one eye open... like C-B-S!

On the real, Jay-Z in his prime (which was Reasonable Doubt) was nice. Jay-Z as a businessman was HoF worthy. As a songwriter? Ignoring that he supposedly doesn't ever WRITE his songs, I mean sure... it's one of those things where the people voting probably don't know too many rappers and didn't want to elect Eminem first for optics purposes.

To me you can't be considered a gifted songwriter if you can't cover an array of subjects with lyrical excellence. We all know his modus operandi: he's proud of selling crack to black people and proud of the money he's got.
Click to expand...
If you take any rappers bars out of a song and place them in a post, literally every one can say they aren't impressed,they come off as bad puns or just "oh that's clever", period.

And Jay does have a wide variety of lyrical material, and just because something might have drug framing doesn't mean it can't touch on many things within it.
 
T

theignoramus

Member
Aizen.S.Kennedy said:
Ppl always wanna downplay hov's lyricism smd( shaking my dreads). I love nas too but my dude has equal amounts classic/trash albums. Streets deciple?? Nastradamous?? The nigger album?? Life is good?? Gods son?? Ugh like 3-4 hot joints on each of those. That's like one good album stretched out over 5.

And most if not all of the other rappers ppl are saying( even tho they aren't naming names) should get it first don't have a consistent output of amazing SONGS. I'm not saying hov is the best to ever do it but damn he is a good choice an and excellent place to start.
Click to expand...

Dont worry, theyll give us bars from ChinoXL, Diabolic, or the Rap God cypher as a rebuttal.
 
Q

qcf x2

Member
Syphon Filter said:
How is RD his prime when he was just starting out? He was still in his prime with BP and at least up till the black album.
Click to expand...

Because prime refers to your peak output, not the middle of your career.

theignoramus said:
You'll just invent some arbitrary and forever expanding definition of "array of subjects" if I give you examples.

Have even heard Meet the Parents? December 4th? Where I'm From? Soon Youll Understand? I doubt it.
Now list your examples of outstanding lyricism, so I can pick it apart & laugh at it.
Click to expand...

Yes, I've heard all of them. He was my favorite rapper in my teenage years. Then I grew up and stopped strictly equating clever with lyrical. I started requiring substance over swagger and found him to be lacking more often than not. He's had his moments, I never said he was awful. But it does play to my point that you seem to have gotten emotional about my comment.


Aizen.S.Kennedy said:
Good but not amazing god tier clearly better then jay z albums good.

Edit: I was just using hyperbole to fit in with others downplaying g.o.a.t lvl rappers bodies of work.
Click to expand...

Hyperbole, always a sure sign of confidence in your convictions. If you think Untitled is weak then yeah, sure, all of Jay-Z's albums are amazing... I guess.
 
B

Bounceounce

Member
theignoramus said:
Dont worry, theyll give us bars from ChinoXL, Diabolic, or the Rap God cypher as a rebuttal.
Click to expand...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9-RFvvOTS0s
"[Intro: Beyoncé]
Who wants that perfect love story anyway, anyway?
Cliché, cliché, cliché, cliché
Who wants that hero love that saves the day, anyway?
Cliché, cliché, cliché, cliché
What about the bad guy goes good, yeah?
An innocent love I'm misunderstood, yeah?
Black hour glass, our glass
Toast to clichés in a dark past
Toast to clichés in a dark past

[Verse 1: Jay-Z]
Boy meets girl, girl perfect woman
Girl get to bustin' before the cops come running
Chuck the deuces, chugging D'usse ugh
Fuck what you say, boys in blue say

[Beyoncé]
I don't care if we on the run
Baby as long I'm next to you
(Uhuu)
And if loving you is a crime
Tell me why do I bring out the best in you
Why

[Bridge: Beyoncé]
I hear sirens while we make love
Loud as hell, but they don't know
They're nowhere near us
I will hold your heart and your gun
I don't care if they come, noooo
I know it's crazy but

[Hook: Beyoncé]
They can take me
Now that I found the places that you
Take me
Without you I got nothing to lose

[Verse 2: Jay-Z]
I'm an outlaw, got an outlaw chick
Bumping 2Pac, on my outlaw shit
Matching tats, this Ink don't come off
Even if rings come off, if things ring off
My nails get dirty, my past ain't pretty
My lady is, my Mercedes is
My baby momma harder than a lot of you niggas
Keep it 100, hit the lottery niggas
You ain't about that life ain't gotta lie to me, nigga
You know it's till the death, I hope it's obvi to niggas
Ugh
Cross the line, speak about mine
I'mma wave this Tec, I'm a geek about mine
Touch a nigga where his rib at, I click clack
Push your mothafuckin' wig back, I did that
I been wilding since a juvi, she was a good girl
'til she knew me, now she is in the drop bustin' Uey's, screaming

[Hook: Beyoncé]
They can take me
Now that I found the places that you
Take me
Without you I got nothing to lose

[Verse 3: Jay-Z]
Deeper than words, beyond right
Die for your love, beyond life
Sweet as a Jesus piece, beyond ice
Blind me baby with your neon lights
Ray Bans on, police in sight
Oh, what a beautiful death, let's both wear white
If you go to heaven and they bring me to hell
Just sneak out and meet me, bring a box of L's
She fell in love with the bad guy, the bad guy
What you doing with them rap guys, them rap guys
They ain't see potential in me girl, but you see it
If it's me and you against the world, then so be it"
 
G

Gorillaz

Member
He ruined that Tom Ford beat. Unforgivable imo.

Didn't he rhyme pappers with hamptons in that album?

Angelus your boy LAWST
 
A

Aizen.S.Kennedy

Banned
qcf x2 said:
Hyperbole, always a sure sign of confidence in your convictions. If you think Untitled is weak then yeah, sure, all of Jay-Z's albums are amazing... I guess.
Click to expand...
It seems like you equate whatever topic is being discussed with skill/lyricism. That's where we difffer a guy can rap about being a pig farmer for 30 years and if he spitting then Ima acknowledge it. Your comments about growing up etc are a bit condescending but I'm not one to harp on that.
Yea untitled is weak LYRICALLY. Not the message he is trying to convey but the WAY he conveys it. It's just MEH and that's coming from a guy who loved nas as a teen before I grew up and stopped equating subject matter with skills.
I used hyperbole cuz why not if it was already going on in this thread anyway. Don't care about seeming confident in my convictions when it comes to Nas & Jay I've literally been having this discussion my whole life like most life long hip hop heads.
 
D

Discotheque

Banned
Nas is great but Jay Z has had far more good albums than he has

Also he doesn't have such a trash ear for beats either. Man that dj Khaled Nas album needs to drop asap.
 
T

theignoramus

Member
Aizen.S.Kennedy said:
It seems like you equate whatever topic is being discussed with skill/lyricism. That's where we difffer a guy can rap about being a pig farmer for 30 years and if he spitting then Ima acknowledge it. Your comments about growing up etc are a bit condescending but I'm not one to harp on that.
Yea untitled is weak LYRICALLY. Not the message he is trying to convey but the WAY he conveys it. It's just MEH and that's coming from a guy who loved nas as a teen before I grew up and stopped equating subject matter with skills.
I used hyperbole cuz why not if it was already going on in this thread anyway. Don't care about seeming confident in my convictions when it comes to Nas & Jay I've literally been having this discussion my whole life like most life long hip hop heads.
Click to expand...

That dude is on another planet. Even GZA said he listened to Jay for his lyrics, cause the way he rapped about all his materialistic shit was fly as fuck.
 
I

I'm an expert

Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
FZZ said:
Jay Z won

Nas lost
Click to expand...

even if you trollin people need to rewatch the dame interview with tbc to see how mad he was at jayz for not leavin it and instead settin them up to take the L
 
K

K.Jack

Knowledge is power, guard it well
Bounceounce said:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9-RFvvOTS0s
"[Intro: Beyoncé]
Who wants that perfect love story anyway, anyway?
Cliché, cliché, cliché, cliché
Who wants that hero love that saves the day, anyway?
Cliché, cliché, cliché, cliché
What about the bad guy goes good, yeah?
An innocent love I'm misunderstood, yeah?
Black hour glass, our glass
Toast to clichés in a dark past
Toast to clichés in a dark past

[Verse 1: Jay-Z]
Boy meets girl, girl perfect woman
Girl get to bustin' before the cops come running
Chuck the deuces, chugging D'usse ugh
Fuck what you say, boys in blue say

[Beyoncé]
I don't care if we on the run
Baby as long I'm next to you
(Uhuu)
And if loving you is a crime
Tell me why do I bring out the best in you
Why

[Bridge: Beyoncé]
I hear sirens while we make love
Loud as hell, but they don't know
They're nowhere near us
I will hold your heart and your gun
I don't care if they come, noooo
I know it's crazy but

[Hook: Beyoncé]
They can take me
Now that I found the places that you
Take me
Without you I got nothing to lose

[Verse 2: Jay-Z]
I'm an outlaw, got an outlaw chick
Bumping 2Pac, on my outlaw shit
Matching tats, this Ink don't come off
Even if rings come off, if things ring off
My nails get dirty, my past ain't pretty
My lady is, my Mercedes is
My baby momma harder than a lot of you niggas
Keep it 100, hit the lottery niggas
You ain't about that life ain't gotta lie to me, nigga
You know it's till the death, I hope it's obvi to niggas
Ugh
Cross the line, speak about mine
I'mma wave this Tec, I'm a geek about mine
Touch a nigga where his rib at, I click clack
Push your mothafuckin' wig back, I did that
I been wilding since a juvi, she was a good girl
'til she knew me, now she is in the drop bustin' Uey's, screaming

[Hook: Beyoncé]
They can take me
Now that I found the places that you
Take me
Without you I got nothing to lose

[Verse 3: Jay-Z]
Deeper than words, beyond right
Die for your love, beyond life
Sweet as a Jesus piece, beyond ice
Blind me baby with your neon lights
Ray Bans on, police in sight
Oh, what a beautiful death, let's both wear white
If you go to heaven and they bring me to hell
Just sneak out and meet me, bring a box of L's
She fell in love with the bad guy, the bad guy
What you doing with them rap guys, them rap guys
They ain't see potential in me girl, but you see it
If it's me and you against the world, then so be it"
Click to expand...

Can't tell if you're trolling with this example. These bar are ass cheeks.
 
B

Bounceounce

Member
theignoramus said:
That dude is on another planet. Even GZA said he listened to Jay for his lyrics, cause the way he rapped about all his materialistic shit was fly as fuck.
Click to expand...
"Me and Ty Ty is like Pablo and Popeye
Winding dirt roads on mopeds spilling Opus
Welcome to the magnum opus, the Magna Carta
The best-selling author Decoded
On the holiday playin' "Strange Fruit"
If I'ma make it to a billi I can't take the same route
Swoosh, that's the sound of the border
Swoosh, and that's the sound of a baller
Muhammad Hovi my back against the rope
The black Maybach, I'm back inside the boat
Shepard Fairey they finally gave me some hope
Can't believe they got a nigga to vote
Democrat? Nope, I sold dope
In trouble waters I had to learn how to float
On the ocean, I'm in heaven
Yachting, Ocean 11"
Whooo that Shepard Fairey line!
 
R

Rastafarian42

Member
Andrew Korenchkin said:
I don't like it when non-rap institutions give Hip-Hop some props, because I feel its always a backhanded compliment. Besides, Hip Hop is best when loved, analyzed, discussed, and ultimately given value by us, the fans of the genre. We don't need any outsides sources to validate our passion.
Click to expand...
Agree 100 %
 
DeSo

DeSo

Banned
Infinite said:
Nas has two good albums out of his whole catalog. Jay on the other hand has been consistent through out. fallback
Click to expand...
lolwut

Nas - Illmatic, IWW, Stillmatic, Lost Tapes, God's Son
Jay - RD, BP, Black Album, American Gangster

Five to four.
 
A

Aizen.S.Kennedy

Banned
DeSo said:
lolwut

Nas - Illmatic, IWW, Stillmatic, Lost Tapes, God's Son
Jay - RD, BP, Black Album, American Gangster

Five to four.
Click to expand...
Nah son you gotta get rid of gods son and add in watch the throne & roc la familia
And switch out lost tapes with I am then you have a pretty correct list
 
A

Aizen.S.Kennedy

Banned
K.Jack said:
Kanye carried WTT though.
Click to expand...

Tears on the mausoleum floor
Blood stains the coliseum doors
Lies on the lips of a priest
Thanksgiving disguised as a feast
Rollin' in the Rolls-Royce Corniche
Only the doctors got this, I'm hidin' from police
Cocaine seats
All white like I got the whole thing bleached
Drug dealer chic
I'm wonderin' if a thug's prayers reach
Is Pious pious 'cause God loves pious?
Socrates asks, "Whose bias do y'all seek?"
All for Plato, screech
I'm out chere' ballin', I know y'all hear my sneaks
Jesus was a carpenter, Yeezy, laid beats
Hova flow the Holy Ghost, get the hell up out your seats.

Nah b.
 
B

Bounceounce

Member
K.Jack said:
Can't tell if you're trolling with this example. These bar are ass cheeks.
Click to expand...
Totally not trolling, think this is a perfect example of Jay's songwriting skill and clever rhyming.
Though most people don't process rapping unless it's multisyllable based story telling ala Nas.
 
L

Lemaitre

Banned
Bounceounce said:
But Jay is more skilled than Tupac.
Click to expand...

Considering that Tupac has a song in the National Recording Registry (a part of the Library of Congress) for being "culturally, historically, or aesthetically important, and/or inform or reflect life in the United States" I'd say Pac's lyrical skill speaks for itself.
 
B

Bounceounce

Member
Lemaitre said:
Considering that Tupac has a song in the National Recording Registry (a part of the Library of Congress) for being "culturally, historically, or aesthetically important, and/or inform or reflect life in the United States" I'd say Pac's lyrical skill speaks for itself.
Click to expand...
Rhyming ability, metaphors, entendres, flow, etc.
Jay, Nas, and Biggie are each more skilled than Pac.
 
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