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PS4 Pro PR has been terrible
- Thread starter Caipirinha
- Start date
Milly Osworth
Member
With PS4 all Sony had to do was: "Hey guys, we are not evil Microsoft with Xbox "TV" One".
Cmon, there's like 2 shots of grass from Paragon. Is that not enough for you to drop 400 bucks?
I'm sure the pro versions of games will be stellar. Devs are already pushing out games with terrific QA, so I'm sure adding another spec to design around will definitely improve things. They definitely won't put in the minimum amount of effort mandated by Sony to get something through cert. The Pro is gonna be great.
Always-honest
Banned
You'll be fine with the Pro.
Poimandres
Member
It's funny that the Pro is too much of an unknown, but the Scorpio which is essentially just numbes on a page is a locked purchase!
Unless you mean that you'll wait until the Scorpio launches before making a decision, which seems sensible. I do agree that things have been extremelly quiet on the Pro front, but I'm assuming things will ramp up soon.
Funnily enough the general feedback from Bish Approved RetailGaf has been that it's an easy sales proposition, which it is:
Here's a PS4 it plays loads of great games, and works with the VR. This costs $299
Here is the NEW PS4 Pro, it plays all of the PS4 games, and newer games will look better no matter which TV you own. Twice as powerful for $100 more.
I can't work out if Pro threads are just full of people failing to see the woods for the trees by getting too bogged down in details, or just a lot of concern from those with a lesser opinion of Sony.
I get there are legit questions about HD performance improvements especially but these threads sometimes...
flashbandit16
Member
The problem is that Sony cannot make any definitive declarations on what the ps4 pro can do because they left it up to the developers to choose what improvements to make. They cannot say the every game will render at a higher resolution then downsample to 1080p, they cannot say that every game will run at 60fps, or they cannot say that every game will have better texture/shadow resolution, Anti-aliasing, etc....
For example these three game Shadow of Mordor, Lara Croft, and the Witness all have different improvements.
Shadow of Morder is being render at a higher resolution and then downsample to 1080p.
Lara Croft has two 1080p modes one runs the game at a lock 30fps with ultra settings at 1080p while the second mode runs the game at a unlock 60fps at 1080p.
The Witness is going to have a resolution improvement from 900p at 60fps to 1080p at 60fps and the anti-aliasing is going to be improved from 2x msaa to 4x msaa.
Although I do agree that Sony should be telling publishers to be as specific as possible with the improvements that they are making with their games. Also publishers should release some comparison videos detailing the ps4 pro patch improvements.
For example these three game Shadow of Mordor, Lara Croft, and the Witness all have different improvements.
Shadow of Morder is being render at a higher resolution and then downsample to 1080p.
Lara Croft has two 1080p modes one runs the game at a lock 30fps with ultra settings at 1080p while the second mode runs the game at a unlock 60fps at 1080p.
The Witness is going to have a resolution improvement from 900p at 60fps to 1080p at 60fps and the anti-aliasing is going to be improved from 2x msaa to 4x msaa.
Although I do agree that Sony should be telling publishers to be as specific as possible with the improvements that they are making with their games. Also publishers should release some comparison videos detailing the ps4 pro patch improvements.
Shambalakan
Member
Advertising PS4 Pro isn't that easy.
If you talk about it like a very powerful console, PS4 owners won't be happy: "Sony betrayed us!"
If you don't talk about its power, new buyers won't spend money for it and will buy old PS4: "Why should I spend $100 more for a console like PS4?"
But I agree about PR. Only 2 weeks remain until PS4 Pro and there aren't any big news or trailers about it.
If you talk about it like a very powerful console, PS4 owners won't be happy: "Sony betrayed us!"
If you don't talk about its power, new buyers won't spend money for it and will buy old PS4: "Why should I spend $100 more for a console like PS4?"
But I agree about PR. Only 2 weeks remain until PS4 Pro and there aren't any big news or trailers about it.
What games? All games? Just patched games? All games after pro launch? What about Framerate? But my TV upscales to 4k already? Does it make psvr actually useable? Etc etc, its a confusing message that MS will suffer from too with Scorpio and Nintendo is suffering with also atm due to lack of info about the switch
This isn't a new generation platform launch though. They don't need to do as much work.
Frame rate is even less of a sellable point to consumers, or is this a message that needs to be continually hammered into gaffers along with 'framerate is a design choice by developers & publishers'?
How do you know that you can't take any real advantage of the system on a 1080p set?
If you got all the benefits of a higher resolution on a lower resolution screen, there would be no reason to upgrade your TV.
Why should I play my ps4 games on a 1080p TV? They'll be running at the same resolution and look just as good on my 720p TV.
J_ToSaveTheDay
Member
Agreed.
I'm excited about the possibility of the Pro but I've yet to see firm proof that Sony and developers have the knowledge and resources to actually make it provide benefits to non-4K/HDR gamers right now. It's been a lot of compelling theories, like using the 4K checkerboard upscale to supersample to a 1080p image space for much better anti-aliasing. And it wasn't just the potential 1080p image space gains, I've been excited for PSVR for ages and I kind of thought that the PS4 Pro was really going to focus on enhancing PSVR right away, too, and right now Sony's exact messaging is "don't expect to see VR gains for a while." I had in my mind that troubles with early PSVR development is one of the major reasons that prompted Sony's need to make a PS4 Pro in the first place -- it desired a higher spec to fine tune the VR framerates and resolutions.
When the leaks were rolling out since early this year, I was super on board with a spec update to an existing console. But the messaging at PlayStation Meeting was so hard on targeting 4K+HDR, and the few Pro Modes we've heard about so far seem so focused on achieving really only that for certain that I'm starting to feel more and more weary about Pro as a 1080p user that has no real plans to upgrade to 4K+HDR for the next two years or so. I mean, it's inevitable, and I find 4K+HDR compelling, I just want the technology to reach a smaller pricepoint for what the current premium experiences are, and hopefully some display manufacturers will put some emphasis on display lag for gaming specifically too, while still balancing in nice IQ factors. As of right now, 4K+HDR isn't INCREDIBLY expensive like the debut of just 4K sets were a few years back, but it does still feel like the Wild West in terms of having these existing displays communicate 4K+HDR seamlessly (going off of Xbox One S compatibility complaints) and having good, low display lag for gaming in particular. I want to jump on once all of that is sorted out in just over a year or two. Right now, I just want my games to look better. I thought the long wait for the reveal between the initial leak and the debut was to get developers briefed for this fall's releases. Some seem to have gotten the message and were able to work it into their dev cycles, but many seem to feel like too little was provided to them by Sony in time for strong support at launch.
That said, I still have faith that upcoming titles such as Horizon: Zero Dawn and generally games releasing in that window have had time to adapt PS4 Pro spec into the dev cycles. It's just a drag that all the mystery and suspense from the long wait between solid leaks and full reveal resulted in so little actually being delivered in time for launch.
I don't think the Pro is going to perform super well out of the gate, maybe the first wave will sell out just due to the nature of the enthusiast market, but until some of the benefits of the console are being very well communicated and demonstrated to the general populace that doesn't seem to have a high rate of 4K+HDR adoption, I think Sony's going to wonder why people don't want the thing.
I'm excited about the possibility of the Pro but I've yet to see firm proof that Sony and developers have the knowledge and resources to actually make it provide benefits to non-4K/HDR gamers right now. It's been a lot of compelling theories, like using the 4K checkerboard upscale to supersample to a 1080p image space for much better anti-aliasing. And it wasn't just the potential 1080p image space gains, I've been excited for PSVR for ages and I kind of thought that the PS4 Pro was really going to focus on enhancing PSVR right away, too, and right now Sony's exact messaging is "don't expect to see VR gains for a while." I had in my mind that troubles with early PSVR development is one of the major reasons that prompted Sony's need to make a PS4 Pro in the first place -- it desired a higher spec to fine tune the VR framerates and resolutions.
When the leaks were rolling out since early this year, I was super on board with a spec update to an existing console. But the messaging at PlayStation Meeting was so hard on targeting 4K+HDR, and the few Pro Modes we've heard about so far seem so focused on achieving really only that for certain that I'm starting to feel more and more weary about Pro as a 1080p user that has no real plans to upgrade to 4K+HDR for the next two years or so. I mean, it's inevitable, and I find 4K+HDR compelling, I just want the technology to reach a smaller pricepoint for what the current premium experiences are, and hopefully some display manufacturers will put some emphasis on display lag for gaming specifically too, while still balancing in nice IQ factors. As of right now, 4K+HDR isn't INCREDIBLY expensive like the debut of just 4K sets were a few years back, but it does still feel like the Wild West in terms of having these existing displays communicate 4K+HDR seamlessly (going off of Xbox One S compatibility complaints) and having good, low display lag for gaming in particular. I want to jump on once all of that is sorted out in just over a year or two. Right now, I just want my games to look better. I thought the long wait for the reveal between the initial leak and the debut was to get developers briefed for this fall's releases. Some seem to have gotten the message and were able to work it into their dev cycles, but many seem to feel like too little was provided to them by Sony in time for strong support at launch.
That said, I still have faith that upcoming titles such as Horizon: Zero Dawn and generally games releasing in that window have had time to adapt PS4 Pro spec into the dev cycles. It's just a drag that all the mystery and suspense from the long wait between solid leaks and full reveal resulted in so little actually being delivered in time for launch.
I don't think the Pro is going to perform super well out of the gate, maybe the first wave will sell out just due to the nature of the enthusiast market, but until some of the benefits of the console are being very well communicated and demonstrated to the general populace that doesn't seem to have a high rate of 4K+HDR adoption, I think Sony's going to wonder why people don't want the thing.
Their doing even worse if people continue to ignore the 5 threads on Neogaf talking about the pro and its benefits. But at the end of the day if you're happy with PS4. You're good to go you will continue to get all the games. Anyone that does not have a system after Nov 10 should get the pro it just make sense. One day one of your friends will get the pro and you can see for yourself what the benefits are with your own eyes, and then you can determine if its worth it.
Its not like the Pro shouldn't exist because you dont want one day one. You will only benefit from it being cheaper, and games taking more advantage of the power the longer you wait. The first batch of games probably will be mostly resolution increases you wont see anyone really take advantage of it until around E3.
Its not like the Pro shouldn't exist because you dont want one day one. You will only benefit from it being cheaper, and games taking more advantage of the power the longer you wait. The first batch of games probably will be mostly resolution increases you wont see anyone really take advantage of it until around E3.
chrisPjelly
Member
I don't know whether or not I should be relieved or disappointed that my hype for PS4 Pro is lukewarm at best
Definitely agree with Sony's weak PR on how much benefit 1080p owners will see. It was quite straightforward for me going into 4k.
But to those of you who would rather wait out for a Scorpio, my question is why would you do that when you could spend that money on a nice GPU since most if not all Xbox exclusives are on PC going forward?
But to those of you who would rather wait out for a Scorpio, my question is why would you do that when you could spend that money on a nice GPU since most if not all Xbox exclusives are on PC going forward?
But resolution isn't the only thing that makes a game look better?
Crayon
Member
Oh look a sane person.
GinoFelino
Member
You don't know enough about ps4 pro, so you'll definitely purchase a console you know even less about?
From a dev on Bound
.Hi,
I'll write about Bound on PRO. Bound will run in hybrid mode. During normal gameplay we will be using 2160P 60Hz MSAA x2 upscaled from MSAAx8 . It means that geometric quality of rendering will be exactly the same as native 4K, but textures will be sampled for block of 2x2 pixels. In our game we are using almost no textures so the difference is hard to see in motion.
On the other hand we use native 4K in photo mode, which is amazing! We have regular trips to our SUHD screen of people trying to play with new photo mode features.
As for VR. We enabled new effects in VR like volumetric lights. On top of that we are rendering sharper shadows - which are crucial in VR and rendering to 4K internal screen which is then supersampled to 1080P display in PSVR. We can do 4K rendering for PSVR since there are still unused black spots that saves us 15% of bandwidth. In native 4K we have places in the game that run at about 50 fps, and that's wy we decided to not use it.
Thanks in your interest! If you have Bound and PSVR, then you already have a free patch that enables VR for our game. Go and check it out
Statements like "Games will look better no matter which TV you own" & "twice as powerful" don't clearly communicate the difference in quality I will see. You know what would? Some comparisons.
AbandonedTrolley
Member
Got my PSVR and loving it, got a Pro on pre-order and expect to be loving the VR even more when it launches.
Looking forward to some Elder Scrolls and PES at 4K along with another play through of U4 and The Last of Us.
Looking forward to some Elder Scrolls and PES at 4K along with another play through of U4 and The Last of Us.
brickarts295
Member
My guess is that they tried to maintain focus on PSVR for Oct. So PR push should kickoff in Nov (next week).
Dragon Puncher
Member
I agree to an extent. In the end Digital Foundry will probably make more effective "PR" for the Pro, than Sony ever could.
Apparently Forza didn't run so well, the possibility of these ports not being tuned to take full advantage of my expensive gpu is enough to put me off for now.
Well 60FPS is something that everyone benefits from, regardless of whether or not they are using a 720P set, a 1080P set, or a bleeding edge 4K set.
If you're going to be marketing your product around some kind of nebulous performance advantage that the average consumer may not be able to appreciate or understand, then it makes more sense to push the advantage that doesn't require the purchase of a new television (remember 3D?). That said, maybe it's just much harder and more expensive to go 60FPS than it is to go 4K.
2blackcats
Member
You don't get all the benefits on a 1080 screen but you do get most of the benefits.
Resolution is often going to be the only difference between ps4 pro and og ps4 versions of games. It's the only thing Sony actually forces developers to improve
Humdinger
Member
True. That's part of the problem with marketing it. Sony can't boast about specific improvements, or it'll come back to haunt them. It's almost entirely in the hands of the developers. They can make vague statements about improved graphics or performance, I suppose, but I'm not sure how persuasive that will be.
GinoFelino
Member
Honestly I think they're betting on media impressions and word of mouth. The problem with 4K HDR is you can't really market the difference with 1080p. It's hard to see on regular screens. So why even try?
Sales will start slow, but as more people see the difference it makes, more people will upgrade to a Pro.
I expect loads of people to upgrade in the next year, just not right away..
Sales will start slow, but as more people see the difference it makes, more people will upgrade to a Pro.
I expect loads of people to upgrade in the next year, just not right away..
Cthulhu_Steev
Member
Fucking hell, no wonder you're having trouble comprehending if you make mistakes that easily, just to get a knee-jerk response in.
It's as easy as this. If you need more detail wait. Or just declare you're buying Scorpio instead, because at least we know everything about that.
So in other words you don't know anything and are just assuming that most developers won't include a mode that best takes advantage of 1080P? Other people are the ones telling people what to do with their money tho
I'd say wait till a week or so before launch, that's about when we started getting PS VR news. No point in doing a bunch of PR right now.