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Japanese girl band's Nazi-esque outfits draw fire
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TheRedSnifit
Member
I'm not sure what the comparison here is, Laibach was obviously using Nazi imagery in a subversive way. The closest thing I can think of is Hanzel and Gretyl, but they're pretty blatantly satirical as well.
I really can't think of any western bands with a Nazi-inspired aesthetic that aren't satire, or at least being deliberately edgy like Manson (or are actual neo-Nazis).
Well, the point being made was that the outfit alone wouldn't fly in Western countries. I only wanted to give counter-examples to that. If I did some research I could probably also find some examples from non-Nazi bands that more or less just like the aesthetic of uniforms.
In this case, I don't really know the context beside the pictures in the OP. Did they do that for any particular reason or just because they like the style?
And honestly, it's mainly the hat that looks a bit Nazi-esque, the rest isn't really a Nazi uniform.
Thankfully, not. Akimoto just blamed it all on his staff.
A lot of western artists have. Nicki Minaj and AFI come to mind.
Japan is like one of the few countries I could actually see ignorance being an excuse for the younger generation with how WWII material is presented and the unusual love for the Nazis uniforms in media. They basically throw whatever shit they say once in a book into their next animu.
Wrestlemania
Banned
I've just come back from Halloween in Japan - there were a few people dressed in this type of pseudo-Nazi costume, plus one in Akihabara which seemed to be an exact SS officer costume including swastika armband. That one wasn't even on Halloween.
It also included one white guy in a nightclub who knew exactly what he was doing, but when I asked if he was actually meant to be dressed as a Nazi he scurried away from me.
It's really weird. Not to mention the ultra realistic scale models of real Nazi officers you can buy.
It also included one white guy in a nightclub who knew exactly what he was doing, but when I asked if he was actually meant to be dressed as a Nazi he scurried away from me.
It's really weird. Not to mention the ultra realistic scale models of real Nazi officers you can buy.
There is a huge difference between mundane tasks and hobbies and a uniform, you know, the outfit that is specifically tied to a group or organization. Besides, saying that 'Nazi's will never rise again' is a bit thick, when there are a lot of Neo-Nazi groups and they are not really unknown to the public.
Well, these young women probably had no say in it. Akimoto even called it 'unbelievable'. Given AKB48's history, I would not put it past them to court controversy in such an idiotic way.
Alx
Member
killatopak
Member
Are camo clothes included?
With Manson it's actually part of the commentary, though. His material is about satire, and reflecting the parts of us we feel uncomfortable with, etc... it's embedded in his work and is part of the artistry.
That's not what's happening here.
The costumes were awful, and I'm glad Sony seem to be interested in not repeating the mistake.
Messofanego
Banned
You don't get braided ropes. You get laurel wreaths.
i really need to read that manga again.
It's one of the most ridiculous things i've ever read, and i love it.
Those costumes are quite bad though, thats true. Know your history!
Tizoc
Member
Mudazumo is brilliant for its absurdity, partially because of Bishi Hitler.
hurricanes
Member
Why? Unless it's meant to be offensive statement, I don't see how military uniform is any more special than many other association uniforms which also vary from region to region.
Yep. And the SS were generally the worst of the Nazis, and had the coolest ones by far. The costumes they're wearing aren't actually that close to their actual uniforms, they're basically just schoolgirl uniforms with cloaks and caps. If they hadn't had the eagle you could probably pull it off.
Still don't think you can get away with wearing that unless you throw on like a rainbow armband or something, and even then people are going to be offended.
Can you enjoy the fashion without venerating it, though? I'm 100% not a fan of the Nazis in policy, 100% a fan of their fashion (and fashion from that era in general). But if even a takeoff of their clothes is presumed to be Nazi idolatry I guess it becomes a distinction without a difference. It's kind of odd in that I never think of actual modern skinheads actually wearing the uniforms.
iRAWRasaurus
Banned
Japan'a teaching of WWII probably is far insufficient for people to know the impact that Nazi symbolism has, especially since victims are still alive and there are groups who still keep Nazism alive. The taboo will not disappear for a very long time.
... but it eventually will.
... but it eventually will.
Anecdotal, but I once tried to talk about this with two Japanese friends and they didn't even know what a Nazi is.
The girls fucked up..
I want to know though, what would be the line between "celebration" and parody? Or would a Imperial Star Wars costume count as a Nazi costume? (they're the same).
Most importantly, when does it stop being offensive? I don't want it to be, of course, but at what point in time it starts being like Gengish Khan or Persian soldier or one of those other genocidal people costumes you wear without being accused of "celebrating violence?.
There's an interesting discussion to be had about how modern history doesn't have the tendency to allowing itself to be forgotten.
I want to know though, what would be the line between "celebration" and parody? Or would a Imperial Star Wars costume count as a Nazi costume? (they're the same).
Most importantly, when does it stop being offensive? I don't want it to be, of course, but at what point in time it starts being like Gengish Khan or Persian soldier or one of those other genocidal people costumes you wear without being accused of "celebrating violence?.
There's an interesting discussion to be had about how modern history doesn't have the tendency to allowing itself to be forgotten.
that reminds me of the best legendary thread we ever had
Literally, Hugo Boss made them.
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
...You guys realize that M. Bison's outfit is clearly meant to be a Nazi uniform as part of his whole evil dictator shtick, right?
I do wonder. Obviously it is kind of funny coming back from a comic convention and out of all the Star Wars characters, there were two Reys and then 95% of everyone was Darth Vader, some sort of Stormtrooper, an Imperial officer, or whatever the evil whiny guy was in TFA played by Adam Driver. Given that they are basically space nazis and the Imperial uniforms are knockoffs, it is kind of funny that if you add a layer of abstraction it's perfectly fine. Same with Bison.
But I think the Nazis will still be romanticized to a degree even with modern history and stuff like film of their mass killings. Their horrible actions alone I don't think really disqualifies them. I'd say in the grand scheme of things the Mongols were even more terrible than the Nazis (they almost certainly directly or indirectly killed more people as a percentage of the world's population than the Nazis did), but it's not like anyone cares if you dress up as the guy who would slaughter men women and children even after they would surrender like it was going out of style. The people who were directly affected by those events are long dead. Meanwhile we still have people who lived through WWII and their children alive today; it's still far more raw.
Give it 75 years though and I think the only people who will generally care are Israelis.
The swastika I think might remain verboten for longer since it's a crystallized symbol of the Nazis and neo-Nazis still run around with it, though.
No, its not. Its ganguro.No, this is Japanese blackface:
Blackface is a serious problem in Japan.
In the cloaks they do.
Almost never in black. Like the Chaplin mustache, there's unfortunate baggage with the visual of a black peaked cap and coat.
FrontalMonk
Banned
This is a pretty sad thing IMO. Like, the actual fashion is really cool and I wish it could become mainstream some day, but the nazis fucking ruined it forever. Obviously I don't want to be insensitive to the fact that the nazis were fucking evil genocidal maniacs, but that also means that the fashion is basically permanently off limits for fear of glorifying it.
Jinx isn't based on ganguro. I'm honestly not sure what she's supposed to be; I don't think she was intended to resemble black face when you look at the original Sugumori art where her face conspicuously lacks shading and looks more like a hole than a black surface (contrast with Cloyster's and Gastly's art). She ended up looking like black face though, which is functionally the same thing. And then the anime basically made her Zwarte Piett, so it's not like it was just people outside Japan who saw blackface.
Gamefreak changed Jynx's design so the face is purple, though I don't think that completely fixed the problem. When I look at her, I still see the obvious resemblance to blackface.
Which...literally translates to "blackface". Even if it didn't, ganguro didn't really peak until the mid 90s, making it improbable that Jynx was based on the fad given how long the original Red/Green were in development, not to mention that she doesn't resemble ganguro to begin with. Jynx is based on a racist caricature of black people that is fairly common in Japan. To reiterate: Blackface is a problem in Japan that's existed for a while and continues to pop up in some capacity to this very day.
FrontalMonk
Banned
Well I know speaking just for myself, I get how offensive it is, and I don't condone it, I just feel a little sad that one of the most monstrous superpowers the world has ever known ended up having outfits that actually look good, because they'll always have this reputation/connotation to them that makes them totally off-limits. It's definitely a deserved reputation, for sure, but man.
Well, it looks exactly like Ganguro to me, the creator says it is. You haven't really refuted it with anything substantial.
IamDodongo
Member
I thought the outfits would at least look good, but no.
many places
Member
No, they haven't.
Also, whatever the original creator's intent, Jynx ended up looking like a racist stereotype to basically everybody. Hence why they changed her design.
Japan'a teaching of WWII probably is far insufficient for people to know the impact that Nazi symbolism has, especially since victims are still alive and there are groups who still keep Nazism alive. The taboo will not disappear for a very long time.
... but it eventually will.
This is so goddamned stupid.
The inability for Japan to recognize their war crimes is a problem now, unless you're going to take a nihilist viewpoint because Koreans, Chinese, Americans, Filipino and Japanese people arent going to exist as we know them 2,000 years hence.
<Citation needed>
Putting aside that I mentioned the timing of the ganguro fad that makes it very unlikely Jynx was inspired by it given its peak and the lengthy development time of Red/Green, I think the fact that they changed Jynx's skin from black to purple is about as much substantial evidence coupled with the banning of Holiday Hi-Jynx and other episodes featuring Jynx in North America one needs that Game Freak knows there's some less than ideal inspirations behind this particular Pokémon, namely its resemblance to blackface.
Your vision doesn't reflect the facts, so please stop embarrassing yourself.
Side-note: I did not expect to see a Nazi uniform defense for on GAF....Why?
GoodCoffeeJoey
Banned
This is one of the most commonly recurring things in reddit/internet contrarian culture. In every literally thread about Nazis there's always some high voted/quoted post saying things "at least their uniforms were cool looking", or "muh Hugo Boss." Even when it makes no sense in the context of the thread, the uniforms in the Op are fugly.
Still, nothing. A design like that could be pulled out of anyones ass even before the trends 'peak'. Can you give examples of stereotyped black woman in Japanese media that resemble Jynx more than Jynx resembles Ganguro?
edit:lol they look nothing like Janet.
Messofanego
Banned
Dude, ganguro translates literally to black-face. It is assumed that ganguro started when Japanese girls started being fans of Janet Jackson in the 90s. Whether it's infatuation with black people or not, still it's blackface.
haha, yeah. because if the nazi weren't monsters you'd totally be wearing the wehrmacht uniform right now.
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