That wasn't a dog whistle.
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Clinton aides blame loss on FBI, media, sexism, Bernie, everything but themselves
- Thread starter chubigans
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That wasn't a dog whistle.
This is why the "boohoo white people" reaction that gets brought up whenever people point out the genuine feeling of disenfranchisement by middle class white America pisses me off. Everyone's concerns deserve to be heard, privilege doesn't change that. But even if you believe on a moral level that we really should just say fuck you to everyone who disagrees with progressives, reality simply does not care. No one gives a fuck if you have the moral high ground and lose an election. It does not matter in the slightest if you stood your moral ground and refused to engage with people you consider deplorables if you're simultaneously unable to enact the change you want. Being right on moral ground in a world gone wrong does not help me sleep better at night.
This stuff makes me mad at her. I'm sure someone told her to keep her mouth shut and "take the high road" or something, but I would have loved for her to just scream. "I'm not corrupt. You have my record. You have my finances. You have the foundations finances. You have my freaking personal emails. My opponents in both the primaries and the general have all refused to release ANY of that. Its all available. Its all been looked at a hundred times by everyone from the FBI to the press. No one has found anything. That's not because I'm a technical genius at hiding things. I'm obviously not a technical genius. Its because its not fucking there. I'm not corrupt. Get over it and start investigating the people who are actually hiding from you."
But yeah, not going to happen.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Still the most baffling choice for VP.
Hilary should have left the option open until after the primaries at least. Bernie would have been an ace pick.
Raven117
Member
I was trying to soft play it. Makes my point even stronger.
A person running on straight up racist rhetoric couldn't be taken out because the "race" card was played too many times.
I'll be honest: you're attacks in these last few months are one of the reasons why I didn't dare to say anything anti-Hillary in Off Topic throughout the election. So to hear you say that they did everything right is, well, not too surprising.
Omega Kirby
Member
Yup, Hillary's never going to become president
Ziltoidia 9
Member
I realized on my drive over to work, that Kaine is basically the dem's version of John Kasich.
Too much bad blood between her and Bernie, especially in the final few weeks of the campaign
Raven117
Member
This.
You are going to get nowhere when you tell an out of work for years not college educated blue collar worker in Michigan that he is the beneficiary of "white privilege."
It is going to drop like brick.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Pai Pai Master
Banned
kasich was just as crazy as the rest, he just didn't show it
Yeah I mentioned this in a debate thread. Too much smug look at hillaryclinton.com answers and not enough direct defense and evisceration of the terrible comments made against her. Remember those crowd cheers when trump dissed Hillary during debates? She just shrugged them off and sometimes ignored them
Raven117
Member
No...it wasn't...
That freak just walked behind the blue wall and asked them to vote for him.
They did.
It was arrogance that their vote wasn't needed and they couldn't effect the election so we can fully move on and let racists languish behind staying mad licking salt crying white tears made of 98% fragility and privilege.
That attitude has helped, in its own small way, put a fucking white supremacist into office armed with majorities in Congress and SCOTUS spots to fill.
But hey. Stay on that hashtag buzzword concept of social justice where believing ones own ever growing vocabulary of nonsense is a truth that wins the day. Actual social justice is about to get put into a guillotine.
Ziltoidia 9
Member
I was going more for a doppy uncle with bad joke's type comparison, not really the polices side.
cascardian
Member
Another piece of the puzzle that probably helped flip WI, MI and PA: low voter turnout among millennials (18-29). How low? Buckle up:
2008: 50%
2012: 45%
Census Bureau source (p. 6).
On the other hand, for 2016: 19% (Bloomberg)
Edit: I am wrong! This percentage is the share of millennials among the electorate (which is the same as 2012), as was pointed out below. It's not the turnout! The Bloomberg article does point out, though, that fewer millennials voting to swing states was a problem. But they don't report a general turnout percentage (likely because not all votes have been counted yet, now that I think about it).
Oh my, now how could that ever be? In general, millennials voted more for Clinton than Trump (while also quite a few voted third-party), though, so that's something at least. Would Bernie have been the better choice? I think it is very likely.
2008: 50%
2012: 45%
Census Bureau source (p. 6).
On the other hand, for 2016: 19% (Bloomberg)
Edit: I am wrong! This percentage is the share of millennials among the electorate (which is the same as 2012), as was pointed out below. It's not the turnout! The Bloomberg article does point out, though, that fewer millennials voting to swing states was a problem. But they don't report a general turnout percentage (likely because not all votes have been counted yet, now that I think about it).
Oh my, now how could that ever be? In general, millennials voted more for Clinton than Trump (while also quite a few voted third-party), though, so that's something at least. Would Bernie have been the better choice? I think it is very likely.
legacyzero
Banned
It's true
https://youtu.be/9zvdzjc0tAw
They're being subtle about it, but yeah. It's also fucking horrible and that video details why.
Basically, he was attached to an epic loser that people lost complete faith in, in a matter of just HOURS. He's nobody, establishment, pro-TPP, etc. if he gets boosted- get ready for another 4 years of Red America.
I'll accept nothing less than Bernie, Biden, Warren, or another excellent anomaly that explodes into the Bernie platform.
Flying Toaster
Member
WOW... what a super bad reactionary pick. Kaine 2020: Because everyone wants to try Carter again!
Holy fucking shit at this Racheal Maddow tweet. Myopic doesn't even come close to describe it
https://youtu.be/-xK5NaH0oy4
https://youtu.be/-xK5NaH0oy4
Yeah. The big Clinton problem was generating excitement. Millenials were disillusioned. I'd debate on this forum even with emotional millenials and why they just can't vote Clinton. It's easy if they are white because inside they know trumps rhetoric barely affects them anyway, and unlike Bernie, Clinton wasn't doing anything particular to win them over. Too young to understand the importance of the Supreme Court noms and owning congress.... so yeah, she loses
I still don't get how some people can refer to a group of people who either don't have a job or make shit wages, have trouble making ends meet for their families, are abusing drugs and alcohol in higher numbers, are committing suicide in higher numbers, have shit for schools and education, have lower mortality rates and higher depression, have been ignored by both parties etc. etc. etc. "privileged" solely based on the color of their skin. that just seems crazy to me. some poor white family living in fucking poverty with no hope that anything will get better is privileged because they're white? sounds like a poor definition. seems to me that we've got to realize that their are other factors at play here and class is a big one. poor and working whites and poor and working minorities may not be comparable 1:1 for a variety of reasons but they're both being fucked by the same system.
it's why bernie's message resonated with me so much because when you help the lower and middle class across the board you're helping everyone. those classes are made up of whites, blacks, asians, hispanics, men, women, christians, jews, muslims, etc. etc. etc.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Yup. So you held the moral high ground. You called a spade a spade. And in doing so, you might have put the spade in power.
Yeah. Great move. Ultimately the comment itself isn't even necessarily the issue, since it's just a small symptom of the greater disease. The disease being her campaign's complete disregard for reaching the working class. The "basket of deplorables" comment. Flying home every night to New York to avoid sleeping in Middle America in a hotel like most very other candidate in history (except Trump lol). Refusing to listen to Bill's advice about the white working class that propelled him to the White House that propelled him to the White House. Not setting foot in Wisconsin in the later months of the campaign. Not doing campaign events in PA outside of the blue metros of Philly and Pittsburgh, even against the begging of Former Gov. Rendell and other hands on the ground. Not doing tracking polls for the last month. Not giving the people on the ground in Michigan the resources they asked for. Doing dozens of exclusive fundraising events in New York, Massachusetts and California. Refusing to do a speaking engagement at Norte Dame that Obama and Biden had both done because she claimed she didn't need to appeal to White Catcholics.
The signs were there. No one wanted to treat the issue though.
The reality is that even if they are privileged, compared to other minority or marginalized groups who are suffering, it doesn't ultimately matter.[/i ] You cannot win an election telling someone whose industry has died, whose brother just drank themself to death and who lives in a dying industrial town with no prospects that they're "privileged." They don't feel privileged, and perception is reality.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
TBF as an outsider from the UK I don't even know who Tim Kaine even is as a person what he does, what stands for outside being more to the right than Hillary, basically anything and I followed gaf threads on the election a fair bit. I know all about Pence, but that dude seems like a veritable ghost. Which consider just how Pro Hillary Gaf was from the start is quite odd.
Wag
Member
Can't have a VP that's more popular than the Presidential candidate.
Adam_Vania
Banned
The spoiler argument fails because a dozen independents run in every election. Deficiencies in the two competitive candidates cause one or two independents to gain traction.
cheezcake
Member
That 19% figure is the share of the electorate which are millenials, not a turnout rate.
This is what everyone needed to hear. Bernie's message was saying that everyone is in this together, that it's the elites that benefit from dividing us. He was right and that's how we got Trump. Now lower class white voters are pinned against minorities. They really play everyone like puppets. If we see some kind of short term economic growth at the expense of long term, then you can guarantee that these working class whites are going to be lifelong Republicans. We had a chance and blew it. If we were going to have a revolution, this was the election to do it. The conditions were perfect. Everything was laid out.
Ziltoidia 9
Member
You know I was thinking aobut this stuff this morning. So should we only allow Dem and Republicans to run for office? Should we dict act a 2 party system and say any other parties on the ballot are illegal? Of course not, but I would like to know her way to fix the issue. And I bet her way to fix the issue isn't to just run a better candidate.
yep
as a wise man once said, "this shit is chess it ain't checkers"
and to take it further that "privilege" label can be extremely harmful because when you are using it to describe people who are anything but you're essentially hand waving away all of their legitimate grievances by saying, "shut up, you're white. you're fine." it's something that I think the more elitist liberals are going to have to come to terms with sooner or later.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
The message should have always been the working class against the elites, but now the working class is devouring each other while the elites laugh.
What a mess.
What a mess.
Well, I mean, our candidate was one of those out of touch elites. So she gets to cry into her millions and complain that it was everyone else's fault that she lost and her echo chamber will all nod and agree and say how sad while the rest of us have to endure President Trump.
Unless he follows through on his threats and puts her in jail.
cascardian
Member
Ah, you are correct! I misread that completely. Thanks for correcting me. I guess the point still somewhat stands, according to the Bloomberg article's third point, but the percentage I stated is definitely wrong. I'll go edit the comment to reflect that.
If he puts her in jail, she'll just cry there and we still have to endure this hellscape.
If she'd put Bernie on the ticket, Bernie or busters would have shown up.just on the off chance she died and he became President.
heard she has this really great technique for slicing garlic..
What the flying Fuck? Who said this? When?
I'm not sure why anyone is asking why Hillary lost, seems pretty obvious now. What blue collar worker would feel good about being represented by the democrats after that dismissal?
Holy shit, i have literally never seen a worse quote.
And neither Clinton nor anyone at the top of the DNC and her campaign will suffer any material consequences. They'll all go on to high-paying lobbying or media gigs.
lastflowers
Banned
incoming Senate Democratic leader Chuck Schumer
both of these posts are A+
and while I'm devastated and disgusted by the fact that anyone voted for Trump despite him doing just about nothing in their interests, the fact is that something drastic has to change in the Democrats methods.
theclosetfan
Member
I'll be the first to admit I was all in for Hillary. There's plenty of aspects of her candidacy that I wasn't excited about, but I believed that she was a safe, consistent choice to keep moving the ball of progress further.
I've also worked and dealt with many far-left people and groups and politicians, and thus was very skeptical about what Bernie was bringing to the table. In my experience, the loudest critics of the system are those with the least ability to manage their outrage effectively. Being in the nonprofit world, I see it everyday.
That said, the Clinton Machine failed us. Bill and Hillary have essentially been Red Wedding'd. Everyone associated with their campaign has to go. They failed spectacularly at their mission and we are all going to suffer for it.
We new new blood, new ideas, new progressive momentum. I'm now 100% on board with allowing the Sanders wing of the Democrats to wrest control of this damaged party and see where they take us. We have nothing to lose at this point.
I've also worked and dealt with many far-left people and groups and politicians, and thus was very skeptical about what Bernie was bringing to the table. In my experience, the loudest critics of the system are those with the least ability to manage their outrage effectively. Being in the nonprofit world, I see it everyday.
That said, the Clinton Machine failed us. Bill and Hillary have essentially been Red Wedding'd. Everyone associated with their campaign has to go. They failed spectacularly at their mission and we are all going to suffer for it.
We new new blood, new ideas, new progressive momentum. I'm now 100% on board with allowing the Sanders wing of the Democrats to wrest control of this damaged party and see where they take us. We have nothing to lose at this point.
I want to be optimistic and say that this will be a wake up call to liberals and that we will come back stronger than ever. The consequences are terrifying, but for a long time, we've needed a slap in the face to wake ourselves up. All of this free expression of opinions on GAF for the past couple of days is encouraging. I really hope we don't revert back to our old ways. We can't let that happen again.
Jacksinthe
Banned
She did respond.
DID YOU WIPE THE SERVER?
Clinton: You mean with a cloth?
Yeah. That totally doesn't show a complete "I am better than all of you so I'm just going to fuck around while being questioned and fuck the process because I'm above it all" vibe.
She needed to treat it and respond seriously, shouting from rooftops wasn't needed.
The arrogance is through the roof.
Adam_Vania
Banned
but they campaigned correctly according to their own echo chamber
Netherscourge
Banned
Democrats need a Liberal Trump to come forward, insult all the establishment types and wreck shit.
Just like Trump.
Hopefully, whoever it is, doesn't have a whole fucking closet full of racist, sexist, ignorant shit to explain themselves for. I mean, Republicans don't care about that shit, OBVIOUSLY.
But Democrats will care. We pretty much need Obama 2.0, only with more fire and less compromise.
Just like Trump.
Hopefully, whoever it is, doesn't have a whole fucking closet full of racist, sexist, ignorant shit to explain themselves for. I mean, Republicans don't care about that shit, OBVIOUSLY.
But Democrats will care. We pretty much need Obama 2.0, only with more fire and less compromise.
cheezcake
Member
Haha all G, I was looking for the same data today but looks like turnout rates won't be available for weeks, and the full census data not for quite a few months unfortunately.
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