All three of them, repeatedly, were talked over and many times shouted down because Trump surrogates become unhinged in a second. CNN at no point made efforts, except for fact checking which was few and far between until the last 2 weeks I'd say, to repudiate anything Trump or his surrogates would say. It was always left open for interpretation. Jeffrey Lord in particular, in just about every time I saw him on a panel took 5 minutes to explain identity politics and then turn around and remind everything that the KKK started with democrats, which again happened just about every time I saw him and an off the cuff remark of saying that's not true while he's still speaking is NOT being called on their bullshit. He and the other surrogates, especially Corey L were active bullies who always got their last word in.
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Clinton aides blame loss on FBI, media, sexism, Bernie, everything but themselves
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All three of them, repeatedly, were talked over and many times shouted down because Trump surrogates become unhinged in a second. CNN at no point made efforts, except for fact checking which was few and far between until the last 2 weeks I'd say, to repudiate anything Trump or his surrogates would say. It was always left open for interpretation. Jeffrey Lord in particular, in just about every time I saw him on a panel took 5 minutes to explain identity politics and then turn around and remind everything that the KKK started with democrats, which again happened just about every time I saw him and an off the cuff remark of saying that's not true while he's still speaking is NOT being called on their bullshit. He and the other surrogates, especially Corey L were active bullies who always got their last word in.
UnemployedVillain
Member
I don't know when it started, but people on here seem to as of recently be misusing the word "disenfranchised", in the context of voting. No, having the ability to make the decision to vote or not, and choosing not to (out of apathy, dislike of the candidate, etc), does not mean you were disenfranchised. Yeah, it's nitpicking, but in an election where we literally had people have their right to vote lost or obstructed, we should get the terminology straight
Van Jones and Angela Rye were shut down constantly in favor of Trump surrogates lying through their fucking teeth with every breath and becoming unhinged almost every night. Like with Trump at the debates, they just raise their voice and even Anderson Cooper usually didn't shut them down because they got so fucking loud. Jake Tapper is the only one who even for a moment was able to make Lewandowski shut up.
Pretty much the only way to combat that is to become as belligerent as they are, but then there won't even be a discussion since people like Van Jones are too classy for that. Thoughtful guys like him are being swept aside and it's depressing.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
It's a disgrace CNN went down that road in the first place, they created a circus, and they hired the worst fucking people I've seen to spends hundreds of hours talking out of their asses about Trump. CNN became the circus that Trump started, for a ratings grab. I've never seen anything like it.
And again, besides the fucking insanity that were those surrogates, CNN did in fact spend an ridiculous amount of time dragging the fuck out of Clinton. I wouldn't be surprised if they mentioned emails more than Fox, especially during those finals couple of weeks. Disgrace.
I mean, if chill avid Bernie supporters were getting lit up, then that sucks, but lets not act like both sides couldn't be incredible obnoxious. It got messy real fast, and that was exactly what I was afraid was gonna happen.
If this is not enough for voters, nothing is. Quite frankly, Clinton was not a perfect candidate by any means. Everyone can agree on that front. However, this election(and all elections) are not about the individual person. They are about the collective group of Americans. You can't hand wave away what's going to happen to this country in the next four years let alone the Supreme Court. The bolded is the only reason any of those voters who overwhelming supported Bernie and were offended by the Clinton side needed. I do not see what else they needed aside TRUMP IS BAD. He is unequivocally bad for this country in every way that counts.
legacyzero
Banned
No, you're right. This is me trying to expand my vocabulary and sound intelligent, while failing lol
Wishful thinking.
This is exactly why the populist vote was important this year. In desperation, people will even go to the dark side if it means some semblance of change from the status quo. It's just the reality of it.
And the dems had their own populist that would have provided a better fight. They blew it.
jakonovski
Member
It's like Doom without Doomguy.
Agent_Carnage
Member
We have the same problem that elected Reagan. These Blue Collar workers in the Rust Belt. These people voted for Obama but dident vote for Clinton why is that?
Bolivar687
Banned
I live in one of the urban centers of the swing states, where Clintons inability to drive up the votes cost her the election. I don't think I ever saw a single commercial here discussing her policies, every one leading up to the election was soundbites of Trump. They kept saying in speeches "when they go low, you go high," and how she's a candidate you can vote for rather than just against Trump but it did not correlate to their message at all. It just drove up the election fatigue that kept people away from the polls.
At this point they need to accept that they ran an overly negative campaign which backfired and not demonize everyone who didn't buy it. The Republicans are going to keep winning unless they let it go.
At this point they need to accept that they ran an overly negative campaign which backfired and not demonize everyone who didn't buy it. The Republicans are going to keep winning unless they let it go.
The problem with the emails is that a lot of people in this country have a long unpleasant memory of the corruption of the Clintons. A lot of it is fabricated but some of it is well documented fact. The constant reminder of the emails was just a way for Trump to remind people of all the percieved corruption. Hence the "Crooked Hillary" moniker.
Oh, I'm sorry. It's clear that I didn't watch CNN and have no idea what I'm talking about.
You have by fart the most extreme opinion on this, because I don't agree with any of this. They were not silenced. In fact, Anna Navarro herself has silenced entire panels at times.
CNN shouldn't have hired Lewendowski, but seriously: who is an "acceptable" Trump surrogate that would staunchly advocate for him? They had to have someone, but therein lies the problem: people don't think anyone should be staunchly advocating for Trump.
That's not how it works.
This election WAS a circus, and how the discussions unfolded on certain networks was just a microcosm of that.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Get out of here with this. Democrats would never lose a fucking election if they fell in line against people that they SHOULD consider a disaster for America, and Progressiveness. I've voted plenty of times while lukewarm about it, because doing nothing and hoping everyone else(mostly minorities) pick up the slack to prevent a diet fascist and his conservative knuckledraggers from getting power is something I consider unnaceptable This gloating should fall on deaf ears, because it's childish, and now look at what we're dealing with. This is really gonna set us back, fuck.
I supported Bernie for the most part, but when it was clear that shit was over, I fell in line and supported fully the only option we had, because it's the responsible thing to do. I didn't try and divide democrats, or splinter the party, or peddle right-wing talking points or opportunists hackers and foreign entities, or apparently salivate at the thought of Clinton getting charged with something.
I appreciate those that did nothing whatsoever to prevent just how fucked up these next 4 years will be, or from preventing the shittiest the most abhorrent subset of Americans across the country. Much appreciated on letting them get that win, and for another generation of an conservative majority in the supreme court. (probably worse then before if some of these republicans have their way)
Oh...my....God......
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I did see this one on TV:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdKsA4q-FFA
It seems pretty solidly aimed at older republican moderates though.
What childish is your side acting fucking entitled in a democracy after that literally happened. You wanted to go alone, so suck it up.
The One and Done
Member
Stupid cocky bastards. They deserved to lose. The Ameeican people didn't.
Big Green Anus
Member
What's Obama's 2012 numbers with youth?
Everything the Clinton campaign is blaming (except implying BoBers would have voted Hillary) is correct, but doesn't absolve them of incompetence.
The Clinton campaign's incompetence is also a major factor, but it doesn't mean the external bullshit didn't contribute.
This isn't one or the other; they're all important to focus on and learn from.
The Clinton campaign's incompetence is also a major factor, but it doesn't mean the external bullshit didn't contribute.
This isn't one or the other; they're all important to focus on and learn from.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
And another thing, even if all these voters didn't wanna vote for Clinton against a diet fascist because she doesn't pass the bullshit purity tests, at least show up and vote down-ballot, DO SOMETHING.
I'm also not letting off anyone that voted for Trump of the hook. Deplorable, the lot of them. It would be so sweet if they voted for him and then on Nov. 28 he taken to task in court for his Trump U case, but I expect nothing much to come from it, other than Trump being able to settle, because that's his privilege..
that's rich, calling someone that actually gets involved in the process no matter what, "entitled". GOOD LUCK.
I'm also not letting off anyone that voted for Trump of the hook. Deplorable, the lot of them. It would be so sweet if they voted for him and then on Nov. 28 he taken to task in court for his Trump U case, but I expect nothing much to come from it, other than Trump being able to settle, because that's his privilege..
that's rich, calling someone that actually gets involved in the process no matter what, "entitled". GOOD LUCK.
The lesson is you have to earn votes rather than expect people to pick the responsible choice. Internet logic doesn't win elections and it turns out that excitement is actually important.
Shaming people and condescending to them didn't help. And if you feel they are a lost cause and aren't going to try, you better be prepared to go without them.
Shaming people and condescending to them didn't help. And if you feel they are a lost cause and aren't going to try, you better be prepared to go without them.
Fineee. I agree that rebuilding would take longer than the 4 years ya got until the next try. But there needs to be some serious changes. Though there definitely should be some serious alternatives to people who are both right and left leaning. There should be an actual left party and a conservative party that isn't comprised out of supervillains for the conservative crowd as well. Granted, over here, our biggest conservative party's pretty close to your democrats last I checked.
Dash_Riprock
Member
So all the political cartoons that showed GoP mad scientists creating a Frankenstein Trump were wrong.
It was CLINTON that created this monster!
Jesus, and I voted for and adamantly defended this woman...
mugurumakensei
Member
First, DontBeThatGuy
Second, the campaign should have been focused on she was going to help the common man. instead, it focused on how Donald Trump would be disastrous( he certainly will ). That was the major mistake.
Considering you responded I don't need luck.
UnemployedVillain
Member
Lol, dude what
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/11/politics/popular-vote-turnout-2016/
Edit: Ah, I must've missed the "millennial" part. My bad
DontBeThatGuy
Member
See, that attitude is why Republicans win. They fall in line, because that's the only way you're ever gonna get what you want. You think the majority of them liked Trump? Fuck no, but they won, and that's all that matters. Purity tests are for suckers.
the job of the candidate is to mobilze the party and get them to vote for them. If they can't, they failed. No one has any obligation to give their vote to whoever is currently spearheading the party . Sure, you can continue to complain about and marginalize the so-called dumb masses for however long you want, but they'll just keep voting for whoever they think is listening to their plight. It isn't constructive or helpful in any way. This isn't a "America failed Hillary" scenario, it's all on her
Yes, but we're having different arguments. You're arguing for how it should be and I'm saying arguing that knowing how it is, you have to adapt.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
It's your fault and your fault alone if you were unaware or where she stands, what her policies are, and what she wanted to do to change things. The fact of the matter is that what swayed this election wasn't about ideas, it was about feelings and muckraking. You could win 3 debates handily, the other guy can look like an unhinged fool way over his head, and that still meant jackshit. Republicans fell in line, and millions of liberals took their ball and went home
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Thankfully someone recorded the conversation. Watch the whole thing, it's very enlightening if you're still confused.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1312767
orthodoxy1095
Banned
If this were true, there would be no point to political campaigns.
And yet they are necessary things.
Gee, I wonder why.
I am in a professional program in University in NYC and it's mind-boggling the amount of people here that say "both are terrible." When I push them on what policies they support of Trump and they can't name a single one. This is really disheartening man, if college educated students are acting like this I can't blame the uneducated white voters. Something has gone completely wrong..
You gotta be kidding me. They played with fire and got sent to the burn ward. Her and the people in charge of her campaign need to be heavily criticized for this.
Adam_Vania
Banned
this Pied Piper thing is insane and craven
DontBeThatGuy
Member
You know what helps the common man? A Supreme Court stacked with empathetic liberals. But I guess Clinton mentioning that dozens of times just wasn't enough to get people to give a shit.
So, you're saying Clinton didn't discuss her ideas, her polices, it wasn't out in the open where she stood? I mean, I know the media gave Trump all the damn publicity, but Clinton wasn't running around saying sweet nothings.
So, you're saying Clinton didn't discuss her ideas, her polices, it wasn't out in the open where she stood? I mean, I know the media gave Trump all the damn publicity, but Clinton wasn't running around saying sweet nothings.
This needs to be a thread.
So much for blaming the media. They did exactly what she wanted.
Well we're still in the aftermath and emotions run high. I hope that eventually people take a different approach than this type of posting. I feel posts and articles with a similar tone towards "Bernie Bros" just entrenched/depressed them.
Being right about things doesn't win elections. If you have no power to implement your righteous policies, what good is saying "at least I was right!"?
Win first.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
"berniebros" hated Hillary with every fiber of their being, and made sure you knew about it. (Bernie supporter here). They can stop playing the victim.
SneakersSO
Member
They were lower, 45% or so. Mostly cause people realized he was a corporatist, but he was still super popular. Hillary was basically flat line among the same age group.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
I'm saying her messaging and approach to spreading those ideas and policies was piss poor.
The issue is not the extreme Bernie supporters being hit, but the moderate ones that were constantly hit with the insult just for being Bernie supporters too.
This election wasn't about policies, it was about connecting with the people and change from the status quo. Trump connected and Hillary generated 0 excitement and then she chose Tim Kaine.
DNC fucked up.
SolidSnakex
Member
It's amazing and horrifying when you think about it. She was billed as the candidate that would essentially protect minorities, women and the LGBT community, and now we find out that she gambled with their lives just so that she could try to get an easy out in the general election.
And then she continued gambling as she was rather fundraising with the rich people than going out to talk to the dirty rurals. Never forget that she is a millionaire.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
I'm not about to call her a great campaigner by any means, but that didn't stop me from paying attention, or from watching a few of her rallies, or from watching her easily win 3 all 3 debates, and knowing exactly what her ideas and policies were. (and regardless, that wouldn't have stopped me from voting against Donald Trump because that's the right thing to do)
I guess I'm more willing to do the work to understand a candidate, and think about the future then many others. I'm convinced a great many people just didn't wanna hear it, because feelings.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
You obviously aren't most people.
Most people are not even remotely that engaged in the process until you as a candidate get them engaged. That is literally what a candidate is supposed to be doing. Providing a central figure for people to rally around and invest their time in.
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