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[Horns]

I'm not 100% clear on what net neutrality mean. Can someone explain to me at a high level what exactly it means for consumers like ourselves?

Let's say your internet provider at home is Comcast. Comcast feels Amazon Videos and Netflix should pay them money in order to keep delivering streaming videos to you at current speeds (speeds you pay for). Let's pretend Amazon Videos strikes a deal with Comcast, but Netflix refuses to. Comcast could throttle (slow down) Netflix traffic to your house. Amazon Videos would remain high quality with little interruptions while Netflix could be of lower quality and stop to buffer more often.

Net neutrality prevents your internet provider from deciding to slow down certain traffic or extorting money from them in order to prevent. You as the consumer get what you pay for.

 

[TestOfTide]

That's not pessimism. That's fatalism.

Fatalism is an extreme version of pessimism.

Point is, too much optimism leads to complacency, but too much pessimism leads to fatalism and unneeded anxiety.

Seriously. I hate how people are just throwing their hands up in the air like this. This kind of defeatism isn't going to do anybody any favours.

When the commenting period opens up again, we need to let the FCC know what we want in full force just like last time. Because things are different now, people need to fight harder than ever.

It's not hard to get the common consumer to understand what Net Neutrality is. There are so many corporations for it that will help get the message out and actually do something to make sure that happens.

Exactly. To everyone who is pissed off at the incoming loss of Net Neutrality, go start doing at least 1 of the following:

1) Start contacting politicians telling them that your vote will depend on whether or not Net Neutrality stays.

2) Get politicians on your side to start unapologetically campaigning in favor of Net Neutrality.

3) Get businesses on your side to do the same.

4) Get your friends and family and everyone else you know to do these things as well. Inform them on the subject if needed.

5) Support a very simple message: "The Democrats you vote for will crack down on these ISPs committing extortion"

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Fatalism is an extreme version of pessimism.

Point is, too much optimism leads to complacency, but too much pessimism leads to fatalism and unneeded anxiety.

You don't get to just move the goal posts. You clearly see that being overly optimistic is not helpful. There is some utility in being pessimistic. No need interject extremes where there was none.


I said "healthy dose" in contrast to hope.

 

[Somnid]

I'm not 100% clear on what net neutrality mean. Can someone explain to me at a high level what exactly it means for consumers like ourselves?

Net Neutrality means all traffic has to be treated equally. This means whether you visit NeoGaf, or Youtube, or Twitter, or sketchypornsite.com, your ISP needs to give that data to you without any special considerations, data is data. What ISPs and some services would like is to get preferential treatment. Things like traffic to Facebook doesn't count against your data-cap when all other traffic does, or using a Comcast-owned video service streams unthrottled whereas other traffic is subject to your bandwidth cap. This would make ISPs non-neutral. They could pick winners and losers. If Netflix counts against my cap but Verizon's VOD service doesn't, which one am I likely to use? If Youtube pays to be on the "free-tier" or in the "fast-lane" but Vimeo doesn't, which am I likely to pick? It stifles innovation, entrenches those with money or those with hook ups and disincentives users from using smaller companies and startups. It also allows the telecom company to sell you things piecemeal. Want some extra bandwidth using Amazon and HBO? pay us $5 a month more to unlock it.

 

[stanis]

So let's say in 4 years democrats win everything, I wonder if or how difficult it will be to change everything back to neutral.

IS THIS A POSSIBILITY? THIS IS HONESTLY MY ATTITUDE FOR THE NEXT 4 YRS

 

[TestOfTide]

You don't get to just move the goal posts. You clearly see that optimism is not helpful. There is at least some utility in being pessimist. No need interject extremes where there was none.

I'm not moving the goal posts.

Optimism can be useful too so long as it encourages action. Optimism doesn't just mean complacency. It can also mean attitudes like "I will use this unpopular move by my opponents to further my cause."

 

[Peltz]

Net neutrality is one of the most important issues facing the modern world. I'm pretty worried.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Yeah I just fail to understand why this is important. To save giant companies like Comcast? This has nothing to do with small business. In fact it will hurt businesses if they have to pay even more for internet for their workers

1) They don't give a shit about small business.

2) Just like controlling education and news, controlling access to the internet is a great way to control a population.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

I'm not moving the goal posts.

Optimism can be useful too so long as it encourages action. Optimism doesn't just mean complacency. It can also mean attitudes like "I will use this unpopular move by my opponents to further my cause."

That's what you're doing if you conflate my position with a fatalistic attitude. I said "hope isn't any good without a healthy dose of pessimism". How is that extreme or fatalistic? The word hope is right there.

 

[ViciousDS]

Do you think they're going to put a "$15 extra for Netflix because we can, fuck you" line item on people's bills?

it would be

"other charges" and you would have to call to figure what the fuck the damn charge is.

They've been doing extra service charges like this for fucking years

 

[jellies_two]

One way to fight it
Is to point out to Comcast etc that if they start to charge based on speed source content or oriign then this makes them legally liable for the content

That means they become sellers of child porn and purveyors of copyright material and someone that hosts hate speech online and so on.

They can't have safe harbor while also offering a range of products based on content and speed etc. it seems that's a cake and eat it too scenario.

 

[Easy_D]

Can't they also influence where people get news from through this? Democratic/liberal sites not included with a basic plan, or loading slower

Breitbart to be renamed National News, is free to visit.

 

[RPGCrazied]

Does that mean places like Netflix will tax their service even with a subscription? I will cancel my subscription if they did that.

Maybe I need to get more fresh air anyway, just shut the internet down.

 

[Switch Back 9]

One way to fight it
Is to point out to Comcast etc that if they start to charge based on speed source content or oriign then this makes them legally liable for the content

That means they become sellers of child porn and purveyors of copyright material and someone that hosts hate speech online and so on.

They can't have safe harbor while also offering a range of products based on content and speed etc. it seems that's a cake and eat it too scenario.

Would that actually work though? Brilliant if so...

 

[PopeReal]

Would that actually work though? Brilliant if so...

They would be the ones putting child porn into a category and charging for it.

But again I am sure Republicans would protect them.

 

[ElFly]

One way to fight it
Is to point out to Comcast etc that if they start to charge based on speed source content or oriign then this makes them legally liable for the content

That means they become sellers of child porn and purveyors of copyright material and someone that hosts hate speech online and so on.

They can't have safe harbor while also offering a range of products based on content and speed etc. it seems that's a cake and eat it too scenario.

they will capture the fcc

they are gonna write the rules so they can have their cake and eat it too

 

[PopeReal]

Except when their Internet provider jacks up the bill $15 because they want to watch Netflix, it actually will affect them.

They will blame Obama.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

One way to fight it
Is to point out to Comcast etc that if they start to charge based on speed source content or oriign then this makes them legally liable for the content

That means they become sellers of child porn and purveyors of copyright material and someone that hosts hate speech online and so on.

They can't have safe harbor while also offering a range of products based on content and speed etc. it seems that's a cake and eat it too scenario.

Counter-point: That sounds like a good way to get the internet censored back to 1950 or so

 

[Ploid 3.0]

If I stop posting in over a month you guys will know why.


Your mobile carrier is an ISP.

I know, I need the mobile though, so I have 2 ISPs. I guess I should have added, "when my home ISP is knocked out because of storms" (which happens quite often actually). I am ready to survive on limited mobile ISP for reading gaf, or checking Amazon while I'm in Home Depot to see if there's a better price. I think my data limit is 6 gigs per month on mobile. I go through 6 gigs per day on average at home (when there's no new game out that I get digitally or something). I already have to watch everything at the lowest quality due to CableOne's data caps.

 

[TAJ]

Boy I sure hope no tech CEOs talk to any of these people.

Fishing for tag quotes again, I see.

 

[Plum]

So is there realistically anything that can stop them?

Mass protest from the major websites is the only way. If Google, Amazon, face, etc all go down (along with a multitude of smaller, yet still important sites) people will notice and since it affects them will actually care about it.

 

[RPGCrazied]

You'd think video game companies would be fighting tooth an nail over this. Since games is becoming more digital and require more and more bandwidth to download. I don't know about you but I will not be paying extra just to download something that already has a price tag on it. Fuck that.

 

[Onemic]

I find it hilarious that reddit and other internet dwellings had overwhelming support for Trump even though we all knew he'd do this shit. I wonder how happy they are now?

 

[kmax]

Hold on tight, because these coming years are going to be gruelling.

 

[Farside]

god.

has an election ever represented such a stark change for the negative in literally everything?

My thoughts exactly. All progress ERASED.

 

[BoosterDuck]

If Democrats start fighting for net neutrality I'm certain that they'll be able to take over in midterms. Internet access rights are too important to leave alone.

 

[To Far Away Times]

This is an easy litmus test to see who's owned by the the telecom companies.

Disabling net neutrality is a straight up anti-consumer move that would never be supported without said politicians being bought off.

Elected to serve the people... please.

 

[Plum]

I find it hilarious that reddit and other internet dwellings had overwhelming support for Trump even though we all knew he'd do this shit. I wonder how happy they are now?

I would like to hear their justification. Like seriously, what is possibly good about this?

...though knowing them they'd literally cut off their nose if it could spite a liberal so they're likely enjoying this

 

[Rebel Leader]

This is an easy litmus test to see who's owned by the the telecom companies.

Disabling net neutrality is a straight up anti-consumer move that would never be supported without said politicians being bought off.

Elected to serve the people... please.

Companies are people too

 

[maabus1999]

The Federal Courts are going to be overwhelmed with the lawsuits that are incoming...

 

[Fenderputty]

If Democrats start fighting for net neutrality I'm certain that they'll be able to take over in midterms. Internet access rights are too important to leave alone.

It's gonna be pretty upsetting to me if internet access rights are the big unifying factor for 2018 and 2020 when a liberal SCOTUS want one in 2016

 

[Vibranium]

I'm Canadian but there will be far-reaching effects if this goes through. I hope websites, companies, people and Democrats fight this hard.

 

[TyrantII]

I'm not 100% clear on what net neutrality mean. Can someone explain to me at a high level what exactly it means for consumers like ourselves?

Imagine instead of paying $2/kWh for electricity, that the electric company could charge you different rates for each appliance that draws power.

Washer is more. Lightbulbs are the most. TV they charge less. Of course they all use electricity, but the utility company decided to charge you different rates for literally no reason than they can do so.

Now, to go a step further. The utlitiy will partner with GE and give all GE appliances cheaper electricity. Say Jim Bob down the road builds the first sentient electric powered robot? Well the utility chargest the highest rate possible to charge it's battery because Jimmy never inked a deal with them.

Quite literally they want to make the internet pay to play (or win).

Net Neutrality is just providing a utility service. You pay a rate and they treat data all the same. Netflix data is the same a GE data is the same as CNN data. They can't hold data hostage behind paywalls and site blocks for arbitrary reasons that only serve to commoditize data sources.

 

[Pantaghana]

I'm not 100% clear on what net neutrality mean. Can someone explain to me at a high level what exactly it means for consumers like ourselves?

It means that all data you download is treated with the same.

Youtube video, game digital download, or a forum page are all sent to your device with the same speed.

Without net neutrality, your ISP can selectively slow down data sent from websites and then charge premiums for accessing those websites.

 

[Toad.T]

I'm Canadian but there will be far-reaching effects if this goes through. I hope websites, companies, people and Democrats fight this hard.

ShaRoBellus will fight for this, no doubt. It's just a matter of when.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

I'm Canadian but there will be far-reaching effects if this goes through. I hope websites, companies, people and Democrats fight this hard.

Yup. Sucks ass for us. I hope our givernment bites down 3 times as hard agaimst that crap.

 

[Kinsei]

Yup. Sucks ass for us. I hope our givernment bites down 3 times as hard agaimst that crap.

Yeah. And when election time comes they need to make it a huge campaign issue.

 

[ntropy]

You don't get to just move the goal posts. You clearly see that being overly optimistic is not helpful. There is some utility in being pessimistic. No need interject extremes where there was none.


I said "healthy dose" in contrast to hope.

explain the utility of being pessimistic. i'm all ears

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

They're attacking something that should be a basic fucking utility. Any word on how Google and Netflix are reacting to this?

What package will Trump's tweets fall under?

There has to be a way to fight this bullshit.

 

[Ogodei]

I wonder if they won't find some loophole around the "public comment" phase. The comments were insane when Wheeler was proposing his "split the baby" solution (to keep some form of Net Neutrality without going Title II). The set they try to pull is going to crash their servers and get their post office snowed under.

 

[Odrion]

I can't imagine net neutrality will suddenly come back after 4 years either.

If we replace him with a centris yes.

 

[Ewo]

This is something I've thought about on the subject of Net Neutrality, but I've never looked it up or asked anyone. Could getting rid of Net Neutrality lead to some internet censorship taking place? I figure once ISPs can discriminate traffic, they'd also be free to also block it on request.

 

[Ogodei]

If we replace him with a centris yes.

And that's part of the reason why companies won't race to rebuild their business models around internet feudalism, because they're greedy, not stupid. They don't want to have to completely rebuild their business model only to have to completely rebuild it again in 4-8 years. It would be a mistake to go all-in, it would make more sense to just chew around the margins.

Someone else in the thread said "toad in a boiling pot," that's what this would be even if they did gut it entirely.

 

[Kareha]

And I thought Brexit was bad, I genuinely feel sorry for people in the US now.

 

[FlyinJ]

This is something I've thought about on the subject of Net Neutrality, but I've never looked it up or asked anyone. Could getting rid of Net Neutrality lead to some internet censorship taking place? I figure once ISPs can discriminate traffic, they'd also be free to also block it on request.

They can do absolutely anything they want if Net Neutrality is destroyed.

The most dangerous aspect of this is ISPs (lobbyists) deciding what is free, what is pay, how much you need to pay for what they decide you have to pay for, and what to block.

It's fucking ridiculous.

 

[Lord Frieza]

My thoughts exactly. All progress ERASED.

Feels that way doesn't it? Feels like everything is being set up outright be reset back to 2000, maybe even earlier. I wish I could muster some kind of optimism, but I can't really anymore. All I can really do is keep voting and donating, but I don't even really think that's going to matter much within a few years.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

This is something I've thought about on the subject of Net Neutrality, but I've never looked it up or asked anyone. Could getting rid of Net Neutrality lead to some internet censorship taking place? I figure once ISPs can discriminate traffic, they'd also be free to also block it on request.

This is already possible and used. CableOne users couldn't access Viacom content from it's websites including MTV iirc a while ago, maybe even still effective. They had some issue with each other. Viacom blocks CableOne broadband customers from online content.

I imagine without Net Nutrality, this will just be carried out on a larger scale, with a system in place to start asking for websites to pay fees if they want to be on the fast track lane, then sell those fast access packages to customers as well. Also straight up put some websites on a blacklist because Exxon, which will happen to donate trucks of cash to Comcast because they believe in fast internet for all, don't agree with the websites stance on green energy (exaggeration hopefully). $$$$$

 

[Foffy]

This is something I've thought about on the subject of Net Neutrality, but I've never looked it up or asked anyone. Could getting rid of Net Neutrality lead to some internet censorship taking place? I figure once ISPs can discriminate traffic, they'd also be free to also block it on request.

The loss of Net Neutrality allows commoditization of perhaps the greatest weapon of humanity: access to information.

This can quickly turn the country and culture into a localized nest of propagandized information, an increase in the uneducated and ill-informed lot.

Of course, this benefits every person in power at the moment, so they're not too averse of this reality. Do not be foolish if you don't believe this cannot and will not be used by the vile monied interests that have been ruining this country for decades, and their political terrorist organization in cahoots with them.

 

[Knuckle Sandwich]

Are the reddit/twitter/whatever dorks for Trump happy? At least you got to use some dank memes. Fuckin morons.

 

[zma1013]

Are the reddit/twitter/whatever dorks for Trump happy? At least you got to use some dank memes. Fuckin morons.

Dank Memes? Sorry, that's only allowed for the $100+ tier packages.