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Anyone else notice a pattern here? (Nier: Automata, GR 2, and Horizon: Zero Dawn)
- Thread starter Vex_
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I don't think there's anything wrong with sexy characters. I like 2B's character design and I don't think designers should stop imbuing characters with sexual appeal. I like her grace and sex appeal while she slices and dices the enemies. There's an element of fantasy at play in here that makes it fun playing as her (as opposed to gawking at her).
The only problem I have with 2B is when her falling animation and death pose is one where she spreads her legs open. That's gone beyond sexy and into exploitation. The part where her undies show up while she jumps around could also be lessened but then again that's an inevitable part of her Gothic dress costume. And unless you're a real pervert, it's so brief that most people wouldn't even pay much attention to it.
At the end of the day, it's not really up to women, or in this case, female characters to be responsible for what men feel or not feel. Why ask women to wear less sexy clothes because then men are more likely to be perverted if they see something like that? That's on the men themselves. Or for that matter, sexy female characters should not be cause men to see women as nothing but a piece of meat.
You are very condescending when posting in forum. We have no idea how you behave IRL. But if you behave that way IRL, people will just roll their eyes and quietly thought to themselves to not associate themselves with you too often. In forum, you're going to get a full blast, especially when you just stated how Japanese devs are not thinking much when doing character design.
The only problem I have with 2B is when her falling animation and death pose is one where she spreads her legs open. That's gone beyond sexy and into exploitation. The part where her undies show up while she jumps around could also be lessened but then again that's an inevitable part of her Gothic dress costume. And unless you're a real pervert, it's so brief that most people wouldn't even pay much attention to it.
At the end of the day, it's not really up to women, or in this case, female characters to be responsible for what men feel or not feel. Why ask women to wear less sexy clothes because then men are more likely to be perverted if they see something like that? That's on the men themselves. Or for that matter, sexy female characters should not be cause men to see women as nothing but a piece of meat.
You are very condescending when posting in forum. We have no idea how you behave IRL. But if you behave that way IRL, people will just roll their eyes and quietly thought to themselves to not associate themselves with you too often. In forum, you're going to get a full blast, especially when you just stated how Japanese devs are not thinking much when doing character design.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
IRL I know an African American Open GG who also said that BLM is a terrible movement. You realize people can be wrong about things like arguing that Cindy has a strong personality when they literally made her a car skin, made her the first figurine with a picture that's a closeup of her tits, and made some laughably bad animations that look nothing like a mechanic, as no actual character arc whatsoever, has an incredibly out of place accent compared to every one in her area, and couldn't even get a character model for the endgame, and never has any interesting facts revealed that say something about her as a character. Yet somehow she has a stronger personality than someone who's the opposite. Like holy shit.
potatohead
Member
This thread is legit terrible. Just stop already like holy shit. The lack of life experience with sex and sexuality is really really apparent in the thread. Sexualization does not automatically rob women of agency. The assumption that it does is actually quite absurd.
Sex and sexualization is not something so academic and binary that it can only be defined in terms of taking away agency from women. If you really believe that you have no idea of the scope of what topics under sexualization and sex harassment in the real world actually mean and you are not at all fit to address these extremely complicated issues if this is how simple you think it is.
And it means you haven't opened any book about art or cultural history worth a damn or have any decent fund of knowledge about art history in which sexualization as a tool of agency and power is not uncommon since many centuries ago from cultures all over the world. Chaucer, Shakespeare, Alexander Pope just to name a few to start off.
And if you have any art degree from anywhere that means literally jack shit since they are a dime a fucking dozen and means nothing in the real world you will soon find out and it doesn't at all validate your opinion by any stretch of the imagination and neither does it qualify you to judge what is or is not artistic better than anyone else.
Also just bitching about what is "reasonable" to wear in a game that you can fucking control gravity itself makes no fucking sense. Gravity Rush is not in a "grounded" universe that needs to follow your shit restricted view of what art is "allowed" to do and I'm fucking glad it doesn't as well. There is absolutely no justification beyond a purely selfish and anal obsession for Kat to follow any wardrobe rules outside what the artistic creators feel is fit for her character in her universe. And the fact that you are an "art major" advocating for a departure from their artistic and design intent for Kat to reflect a happy-go-lucky and adventurous girl in an upbeat fantasy universe like she needs to dress like she is in some fucking Mad Max apocalyptic movie is patently fucking absurd on its own.
You are legitimately the most condescending poster on this forum I have had the misfortune of reading posts from. And if this is the way you behave Irl take a warning from someone with a lot more life experience you are not going to get along with anyone or be any fun at any party if this is the way you act.
Sex and sexualization is not something so academic and binary that it can only be defined in terms of taking away agency from women. If you really believe that you have no idea of the scope of what topics under sexualization and sex harassment in the real world actually mean and you are not at all fit to address these extremely complicated issues if this is how simple you think it is.
And it means you haven't opened any book about art or cultural history worth a damn or have any decent fund of knowledge about art history in which sexualization as a tool of agency and power is not uncommon since many centuries ago from cultures all over the world. Chaucer, Shakespeare, Alexander Pope just to name a few to start off.
And if you have any art degree from anywhere that means literally jack shit since they are a dime a fucking dozen and means nothing in the real world you will soon find out and it doesn't at all validate your opinion by any stretch of the imagination and neither does it qualify you to judge what is or is not artistic better than anyone else.
Also just bitching about what is "reasonable" to wear in a game that you can fucking control gravity itself makes no fucking sense. Gravity Rush is not in a "grounded" universe that needs to follow your shit restricted view of what art is "allowed" to do and I'm fucking glad it doesn't as well. There is absolutely no justification beyond a purely selfish and anal obsession for Kat to follow any wardrobe rules outside what the artistic creators feel is fit for her character in her universe. And the fact that you are an "art major" advocating for a departure from their artistic and design intent for Kat to reflect a happy-go-lucky and adventurous girl in an upbeat fantasy universe like she needs to dress like she is in some fucking Mad Max apocalyptic movie is patently fucking absurd on its own.
You are legitimately the most condescending poster on this forum I have had the misfortune of reading posts from. And if this is the way you behave Irl take a warning from someone with a lot more life experience you are not going to get along with anyone or be any fun at any party if this is the way you act.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Curious about how often those debates are with women who directly critique them.
First of all there's nothing inherently wrong with being abrasive. Second of all I do not use my race as a shield in anyway shape or form wtf? And yes in a lot of ways being informed due to actually working and understanding the workflow and intent behind a lot of design decisions absolutely helps in discussions. It's not a shield. I don't suppose many people ITT can relate o creating a design and vein told by higher ups that she can't be a POC and should be sexier. Many times people do express sexist views while defending character designs like Cindy, Kat's Alts, Quiet, etc.
95% of the time I've referenced the information that input in a post. Half the time I put said information in that post via a link.
Flowers of evil is not the only anime I've at any point said is worth my time but ok.
As I said, I much more often than not reference information before posting. It reeks of misinformation to someone who ignores either of two factors. And like I said earlier ITT, the rest has been improving greatly in this regard not just with smaller games but bigger, Japan isn't, in that equation, which is gonna be critiqued more often by people?
People trying to tel me that I'm not black is definitely not something I expects to happen today.
Whenever someone genuinely proves me wrong I will apologize. You seem to be so interested in me that I'm surprised that you've missed that. And no I didn't move the goalpost, the workplace not being ideal is part of the same subject matter.
I didn't realize that she was a famous female cosplayer but that doesn't mean that her opinion on character design flies by default. Especially when it gets to the point that there's nothing wrong with objectification in media. How many times do I have to stress the difference between a character designed for a perceived male audience and a woman wearing whatever she wants in real life being two VERY different things.
It seems that you'd rather I critique but "do it less loudly" so to speak. In which case. I'm just gonna flat out tell you no. Trolling, would be saying something like Japan hates women. Or never makes good female designs.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
GAF has a no tolerance stance on racism. You know this. It's part of what makes it a faint glimmer of light in the murkiness of gaming sites.
You made a post saying that Japanese people categorically don't use their brains when designing characters, unlike the West (while posting with a superhero avatar). Then when someone very reasonably and politely addressed the questionability of this statement you flatly replied, "I'm not white but nice try." along with a variety of terse, dismissive responses. Then in multiple posts, you said that it wasn't racist, you were just irate.
And now you're acting persecuted, saying that "nobody IN REAL LIFE calls me racist".
You've made some great posts on race relations in the past, so I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you aren't actually racist, but you are pulling straight out of the racist playbook. All that's missing is "some of my best friends are Japanese developers".
Serenade_King
Banned
Yeah, it honestly has lasted more than I would've imagined. Anyway, merry Christmas to dose that celebrates the holiday!The majority of this thread got me feeling like:
Lol, my first thought when I read this was to find a Santa Kat pic, but you beat me to it.
Serenade_King
Banned
I will admit that I posted the reply as an excuse to again put Santa Kat on display
. Really like how it looks, I wish that GR2 has it included.I will admit that I posted the reply as an excuse to again put Santa Kat on display
That is fine, this thread could use more Kat pics anyways lol
And I doubt it'll have one, but at least there's more costumes to look forward to.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
?? Are you mistaking me for Crossing Eden, because I never said anything about western vs eastern devs.
You said something very confusing that seemed to imply that female characters in western games "dressed like males". It's actually really baffling and I can't comprehend why you'd say that, unless you think "dressing like a woman" means "dressing in a way that titillates me" or something.
Um, okay.
I posted my impressions of the demo in the demo thread. Can't be arsed to repeat myself, but...
....I literally just said I never played the original Nier and wasn't interested in hunting it down, so why the hell would you ask that? You really don't like paying attention to the conversation huh?
I uh... have no idea what you're saying here. >.>
Very true. Game of Thrones has magic and dragons and giant walls of ice, but if people walked around in thongs and speedos when going into battle, people would laugh and call it trash.
Never heard of it. Googling it, it's a Japan only game. Yeahhh, I fail to see your point again.
She's a photograph who dresses casually/comfortably. No problem here.Jade also shows middrift.
Get out of here perv.../s
"Females" have posted in this thread, but they're often shut down unless they happen to agree with the waifu-loving dudes. Such is life for feminists on NeoGAF.
Also, I show my midriff all the time in the summer! Sometimes I even wear <gasps> swimsuits and <clutches pearls> have sexual relations! Why it's almost as if this has nothing to do with what we're talking about....
Huh? Who the what now?
One day you might understand that sexuality isn't what we're arguing against, but sexist stereotypes. Maybe.
Or not. Keep plugging your ears and calling people prudes. It seems to work real well for you.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I'm aware.
I already explained what the meaning behind that statement is but I'll reiterate it again:
That in the quests it is more common to typically painstakingly create a character with a lot of thought that is put into how that design fits the context of what they're doing, and less so "well it looks cool." Like an android in a gothic dress, leotard, and high heels in a post apocalyptic setting. Which can while it looks pretty cool, isn't very grounded in the aesthetic compared to futuristic armor that looks pristine. I wasn't calling them stupid. I could've sworn this was a common agreement on GAF about the difference between western and eastern design philosophies on a typical situation.
??? My dude this is a character from Storks.
Yeah, that would be great.
I know what's being discussed here. I wrote a simple condensed response because I'm getting worn out from this discussion that's been going on all day. I wrote a lengthier response via a personal side discussion outside this thread and didnt feel like retyping it to the same person.
FYI, I don't think Eden is arguing against purely sexist stereotypes and that's my problem. You'd know that if you were better following the discussion and not flippantly reacting to one sentence. But I guess simple reactions and passive aggressive petty attacks work well for you.
Are you serious, guy? In two separate instances ITT you got called out by a bunch of people for ignorant remarks that could be considered racist, and twice you plainly and undeniably said "I'm not white" as the world's shittiest defense.
Compare this:
To this:
You're being arrogant and full of self-importance to be so dismissive of her position informing where she's coming from, in the same breath where you trump up the importance of your fledgling profession in this discussion.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Demoes do seem to be on the rise of late. Don't think they'll be bold enough to release a demo for an open world game though. Btw Happy Holidays GAF.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Like I said, I don't actually think you're racist, so you don't have to defend yourself on that front. I'm just pointing out that there is a reason why so many people called you racist, and it isn't because they dislike you personally or because they're gamers or whatever.
Egg on my face. I thought that was a character from the Incredibles :lol
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Dude I have an issue with sexist stereotypes and those that lean on the edge of it.
I realized that I quoted the wrong post in the first reply and why so many have an issue with that response. My response "im not white" was in response to this post:
I assumed that he assumed I was white hence the emphasis on that many people in the east are non-white. And that I found issue in that when again, that was not the intent behind the post.
Again, she mentioned nothing about the cosplay and instead mentioned how she worked as an illustrator professionally, which I noted was a good thing as again, art education can lead to being more informed on the idea of critique, I don't consider EITHER of us to be a final authority on the matter.
Evidently a lot of people ITT don't like the critiquing of some of these character designs to the point that they find me racist against Japanese designs, (somehow missing the shit ton of posts of me praising the character design of Souls games because of how much they fit the setting and how Miyazaki's thought process is really great because of how much thought goes into EVERY aspect of his team's designs).
It's weird because i've gotten a lot of pms from different people recently asking about where it's from but I could see how it could be misinterpreted as a superhero. Earlier ITT I noted how fighting games and comics are areas where things still need to be improved quite a bit.
Here are my thoughs on the last pages :
1) Bayonetta is a pretty shitty design. It is stupid to have a maximum amount of hair that varies depending on size of creation to the point that everything makes her nakes, it is stupid that she has a short hair on the sequel, it is stupid that a women power fantasy whose power is body hair does not play with body hair OUTSIDE of the head. It is stupid that the only people who becomes naked while attacking are women considered hot for the game standards. Does Jeanne even gets naked while doing supers ? It is stupid how the camera in the game is "male gaze : the game". Actually bayonetta is so exaggerated that nobody will take away my headcanon that she is a Drag Queen : The caricature of "femaleness" as imagined by a dude.
2) Men and women moves are MUCH more equal than games (bayonetta does not count because only catwalk models and drag queens walk like that) lead you to believe.
Also, there is no ONE way men and women move. There are more like masculine and feminine ways people move but even that in a regular day setting are not THAT different.
3) Storks is an awesome movie
4) While we are nowhere near "trans representation" on games (which by contrast is "be happy with anything you got because it is the only thing you have"), cis women representation STILL has a huge way to go BUT we are starting to see more and more, so yes, criticism is welcome because we are starting to get picky =P
5) I have no problem with the Nier girl except for that weird boob window
6) I don't think the graphics, gameplay and landscape of Horizon excuse for "looks cool fuck everything else" designs. The whole point of the game is how weird is to see robodinos in such an otherwise realistic setting. If the game was like FF12 a robodino would not have the same appeal. The way you have to use "realistic" hunting tactics in realistic environments makes me think that the only thing allowed to be VERY unrealistic is the dinobots without breaking the suspension of disbelief. And this includes the main character, whose default outfit suggests a (north) canadian native tribe. And they have shitload of clothes like the protagonist because of weather, not damage protection.
7) Dear god middrift is not inherently bad in every game ! It fits perfectly with Jade's design, for example
8) Objectification of women in games and in cosplays are two ridiculously different stuff. Cosplays can wear whatever they want. They can even make a sexy barney because they are real people choosing to go to a real place in real life. Games have way more than just the design ... the choices, the script, the camera and they can ALL be objectified too. Their design is made to be accepted by a demographic, to be approved by men in suits and dozens of other stuff that makes awesome designs lost in the sea of genericness
1) Bayonetta is a pretty shitty design. It is stupid to have a maximum amount of hair that varies depending on size of creation to the point that everything makes her nakes, it is stupid that she has a short hair on the sequel, it is stupid that a women power fantasy whose power is body hair does not play with body hair OUTSIDE of the head. It is stupid that the only people who becomes naked while attacking are women considered hot for the game standards. Does Jeanne even gets naked while doing supers ? It is stupid how the camera in the game is "male gaze : the game". Actually bayonetta is so exaggerated that nobody will take away my headcanon that she is a Drag Queen : The caricature of "femaleness" as imagined by a dude.
2) Men and women moves are MUCH more equal than games (bayonetta does not count because only catwalk models and drag queens walk like that) lead you to believe.
Also, there is no ONE way men and women move. There are more like masculine and feminine ways people move but even that in a regular day setting are not THAT different.
3) Storks is an awesome movie
4) While we are nowhere near "trans representation" on games (which by contrast is "be happy with anything you got because it is the only thing you have"), cis women representation STILL has a huge way to go BUT we are starting to see more and more, so yes, criticism is welcome because we are starting to get picky =P
5) I have no problem with the Nier girl except for that weird boob window
6) I don't think the graphics, gameplay and landscape of Horizon excuse for "looks cool fuck everything else" designs. The whole point of the game is how weird is to see robodinos in such an otherwise realistic setting. If the game was like FF12 a robodino would not have the same appeal. The way you have to use "realistic" hunting tactics in realistic environments makes me think that the only thing allowed to be VERY unrealistic is the dinobots without breaking the suspension of disbelief. And this includes the main character, whose default outfit suggests a (north) canadian native tribe. And they have shitload of clothes like the protagonist because of weather, not damage protection.
7) Dear god middrift is not inherently bad in every game ! It fits perfectly with Jade's design, for example
8) Objectification of women in games and in cosplays are two ridiculously different stuff. Cosplays can wear whatever they want. They can even make a sexy barney because they are real people choosing to go to a real place in real life. Games have way more than just the design ... the choices, the script, the camera and they can ALL be objectified too. Their design is made to be accepted by a demographic, to be approved by men in suits and dozens of other stuff that makes awesome designs lost in the sea of genericness
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
My issue is "armor+midriff" not inherently midriffs. Although so many characters have outfits that expose their midriff that it's like "another one?"
Schopenhauerian
Member
I agree entirely, and I'm really glad you took the time to explain this point in detail. Also, I'll note that I initially brought this issue up in a larger post that was meant to counteract a simplistic East vs. West dichotomy that had been developing in a previous thread, so your willingness to extend/amplify the critique of Sony Santa Monica in this instance is actually evidence of your ability/willingness to look beyond that simplistic (and potentially inflammatory) East vs. West dichotomy, and to critique each instance of questionable characterization on an individual basis.
Also, if we were to really look deeply at gaming culture in both the East and the West, we would certainly be looking at both developers and gamers; and the rise of GamerGate within the West, for instance, is without a real Eastern analog, as far as I'm aware.
She does.
In both games' stories, she eventually drops her red suit in favor of a white version of Bayonetta's "hair suit". You can unlock that outfit when you play as her, and it has all of the same revealing animations that Bayo's version does.
---
Also, fwiw, I agree with your assessment of Bayonetta as a caricature. I've always thought of her as a gender-flipped version of Serious Sam, Duke Nukem, or some other hyper-masculine hero. Difference being, of course, that she's a violent action hero who is characterized by hyper-femininity, if you will.
I don't think her design and character needs to appeal to everyone, or all women, or all men. Striving for diversity in game characters extends beyond just gender; there's value in a diversity of personalities as well. And if we are striving for a gaming environment where everyone can find characters they admire, then a caveat of that is that people will find characters who don't resonate with them personally.
That was a bit of a tangent, but yeah, lol. I just didn't want to sound like I was dismissing your opinion. I really like Bayo's design, but I 100% understand that not everyone does, and that's how it should be.
Goddamn what a good post.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I mean, in terms of developers, there are a lot of issues in the workplace. And that goes for the workplace in general in Japan. Granted, it's nowhere near ideal here in the west, and ofc more women work in the Japanese gaming industry, but the winds of change so to speak are already having an effect on the industry in spite of GG, which thankfuck was openly condemned by most prominent developers.
If you like misinformation in the form of a thinly veiled attempt at a character assassination then sure.
Only the spy could be questionable. Maid and schoolgirl, although festishes, we're well done and respectful to the character, and suited for the part of the story when you get them.
Running around without pants is in another league IMO lol
You seed valid points in a lot of arrogance that can make you clumsy in turn, like you were in your criticism of the eastern end of the industry. I see Morrigan Stark doing it too. You guys want to have the argument, but also act like it's completely beneath you. It's just not necessary. You just don't need to be snide at every opportunity.
For the record, you have also written some posts and OPs I thought were quite good. But you put your foot in your mouth early on ITT specifically and you've been choking on the toes ever since.
Edit: For clarity, the reason I think that post is good is general rather than it specifically pulling you apart. A lot of GAF posters, a lot of progressives in particular (be it on GAF, Twitter, or anywhere else) have an issue with being overly smug in communicating their perspective. I think that comes from having confidence in its validity and it can and often is warranted, but I don't think this was the thread. You came into a perfectly civil discussion, said the wrong thing entirely, and then wouldn't take the L. You're arguing like the debate stage is Kotaku in Action, my dude.
And I'm guilty of doing this myself! Trying to be better.
FF Seraphim
Member
Same. Hell with Nier the character design itself made my wife interested in the game and she gave it a go.
RichiRamjag
Member
Pretty much. I remember when he got all condescending with me and tried to imply something when I gave an opinion of a racial matter in writing. He then proceeded to speak down to me over the topic until I mentioned that I was black myself. Needs to chill out.
You seem to contradict a point in which we both agree. "more than a few" women drawing oversexualised women designed by men, doesn't negate that many other women have valid critiques about these fictional women misrepresenting women in practicality. By and large,however, a lot of those artists are male. By and large, a lot of women have voiced their irritance with these designs on tumblr as well. Bikini Armour battle damage, a profile with posts reposted from the hundreds, to the tens of thousands, is just one that comes to mind.
Nobody is saying that some women shrug it off or that they're bad for perpetuating this status quo, just that it does engender an issue which a lot of people are just plain tired of seeing, as it does influence our perceptions of women. Again, that seems to be something we agree on.
Nail on the head.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Mainly at this point it's incredibly tiresome to critique the same faults over and over as if they aren't always incredibly similar or easily digestible situations where the intent from the devs is pretty clear. Hence the creation of that bingo card because people still use the same arguments for flimsy representation more often than not. Granted, thanks to it's inception, people have attempted other ways to discuss or defend character design, animation, and camera work like the likes of Cindy. And if Quiet is any indication in a year people will stop unironically trying to argue that Cindy's actually great and will call the spade a spade, based on Drakengard 3 and Nier's handling of women I really don't have a lot of confidence in Yoko Taro to genuinely write a super engaging well written story with a female protagonist at the helm, like for instance the lack of any real build up to emotional scenes. Like I literally don't think people gave two shits about 9S and 2B seemingly sacrificing themselves or how quickly 2B goes from "emotion is prohibited" to "Shut up, don't die on me!!" in the span of 15 minutes, around four of which is dedicated to dialogue between these two.
My issue was that I misquoted the wrong post with a response meant for another. And subsequently was very genuinely confused with the assertion that I have some vendetta against Japanese devs for reiterating an incredibly common sentiment when it comes to the differences between typical Japanese and typical western design philosophies that apparently=racism now for having been mentioned.
I mean genuinely, it's incredibly tired to see people seriously still trying to offend schlock, even more so when they try to paint the other side as overly conservative, puritanical or against any and all kinds of sex appeal or sex in general for even daring to critique these things even when the explanations why have been incredibly succinct and explained over the years about why things like representation matter and seeing the doubling down on the otaku market certainly isn't helping. You have a point though. Not gonna be any more lenient on this kinda crap but can turn down the condescension.
FlutterPuffs
Member
I knew I fucked up somewhere. Was trying to use females as a term for characters in the game and women, girls for actual people. Unfortunately I was also on the way to a wedding and didnt properly double check my post. Not to mention English isnt my first language so sometimes I will get a few words wrong. Sorry for that.
And keep posting! There needs to be different views from more women in this thread. I just dont want it to be all about guys discussing what is appropiate or not regarding female design and portrayal in gaming.
Astral Dog
Member
Lol calm down, wait, what type of body hair are you thinking of?
You realize women are not known to have hairy bodies right, its a play on the Rapunzel concept.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
I can totally understand why someone would feel that way about Drakengard 3, even if I disagree, but is it a common opinion that Nier is a negative example of women in games? Kaine is one of my favorite characters in the medium. She's strong, three dimensional, has her own personal narrative running concurrent to the main plot that gets put on beautiful and ingenious display in game-defining moments, and stands in stark contrast to lazy waifu stereotypes.
It's also probably one of the only games out there featuring a relationship between a man and an intersex woman, and it never treats that intersexuality as a fetish - it's something that you can see on her model, and it informs her character, but it isn't her defining trait.
Which brings me back to your desire for Japanese developers to be braver and more creative - Yoko Taro is probably one of the most creative and daring people in the industry.
Drakengard 3's backstory for
Five
John Kowalski
Banned
I think 2B (btw is her name a play on the Hamlet speech?) looks super cool and elegant and confident, but it's unfortunate that she also contributes to the hot videogame girl archetype, and to its problematic representation of women.
That said I've never played a yoko taro game so I can't speak to what the final game will be, though general impressions from other posters makes me think that the game will try to be about something so much worse that people will dismiss these focused criticisms.
That said I've never played a yoko taro game so I can't speak to what the final game will be, though general impressions from other posters makes me think that the game will try to be about something so much worse that people will dismiss these focused criticisms.
What's fun to me about Kat is that she can be unashamedly feminine. Usually a portagonist in an action game has to be rough, etc. At the same time is she also not defined by it and simply is her own character
Don't forget that Kaine - the only sexualized women in the game - is constantly critiqued for her ridiculous illfitting outfit, because Yoko Taro loves to metacomment on videogame tropes through his characters, but for the sake of the narrative of this thread we're gonna ignore that and pretend she's fapbait.
The song was ok but really I liked the video, especially the synchronized dancing parts. Will also wait for the RPG with you.
Edit: Didn't noticed it was 2 videos until I replied and just saw Crazy Law.... guess I'm watching more Kazaky videos tonight, if that was your plan then congrats because it worked.
You got me
All jesting aside, I would really love a game full of "stupid" outfits like those; a male TERA, if you will (even if that game has some legitimately cool stuff in it). If only to see the reactions it would elicit.
EvilKatarn
Member
"Based on"
lmao
It's obvious you have not played those games and can't even pretend to care enough to acquaint yourself with the plots and characters through wikis. For someone who claims to back up everything he says with empirical evidence you sure do love making a whole lot of baseless claims. You're a loud hypocrite.
Mobile Suit Gooch
Grundle: The Awakening
Yeah, sorry...Had to go back and look.
why did you put females in quotations? Don't be bitter that there are women aren't arguing the same point's as you were, let alone a cosplayer. GAF ain't a hivemind.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
My dude I watched all the cutscenes when that game came out as i was interested in the CG trailer. I didn't read a wiki. You realize I use the phrase "based on" very commonly right?
Seeing as I made that post jokingly I was going to let you get away with it. But I have decided against it.
Jade is a photographer who constantly comes in contact with what appears to be tropical (and sometimes poisonous) wildlife. Any sane person would cover up exposed body parts.
Although stealth is a major component, she can and very often does engage in combat using her acrobatic skills. That tank top with midriff showing and her cargo pants are just going to hinder her movements.
Point is, if Jade is allowed get away with it, so should the other video game characters like Aloy.
what's kainè and Zero problems then, aside their character design? you also missed all the ingame dialogues. i found their stories okay
He also missed around a 150 pages of written characterization in the case of D3
well, while it helps i tend to not take things offgame as mandatory for understanding a character, but saying "i know them, i watched the cutscenes" means to me that you don't know what you're talking about
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