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[Oregano]

People have mental bins because things fall cleanly into bins. There hasn't been another system like this, so assuming people will treat it exactly the same makes no sense. It's the same reasoning people used to claim tablets were stupid back when the iPad came out

Also I think mental bins might change once Pokémon is announced. It might not be next week but it won't be long into the system's life.

 

[Ceadeus]

Wich means 300$ CAN

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Because of where it sits on the shelf.

In the Nintendo section??

 

[Plum]

Because of where it sits on the shelf.

...that doesn't make any sense.

 

[SuperSah]

Lol ok, Jan.

Classic post right here guys...

What? A dude can't be skeptical about a square controller where each Joy-Con looks as if it barely fits in a teenagers hands? C'mon now, each Joy-Con is tiny as hell. See the Mario Kart segment of the trailer or the plane scene.

I can't imagine the square holder thing fixes that, adding to the discomfort. I'll probably be proven wrong when I get hands on it and get used to it, but as it stands there's zero doubt it looks uncomfortable and awkward to use.

 

[ultrazilla]

do you guys think we will have issues placing pre-order for this?

In Nintendo decides they *WON'T* allow pre-orders for the system, then yes.

I don't expect Nintendo to do that though so hopefully folks can pre-order.

SUPPLY will be CRUCIAL for Nintendo on the Switch. They need to make sure they have the numbers for this launch. I'm talking millions of units available at launch. Millions. If not, scalper paradise, melt downs, Nintendo is doomed, etc. I hope we don't go down that road.

This is NOT the Wii U all over again. Nintendo, bring it and DO THIS RIGHT!!

 

[GhostTrick]

like you really don't get why having MARIO KART AND SMASH BROS on your console in a launch year is a good thing?

Those games sell. Even on the wii u. It is a no brainer.

You're putting words in my mouth. Where the heck I said it's a bad thing ? I said it just won't be enough ? That it wont make it a success at this price point ? Sure these games will sell well to Switch buyers. But will these Wii U ports, which didn't make Wii U a success, make Switch a success ?

 

[Indelible]

I was going to buy a Switch at launch regardless of price but $250 is the sweet spot if Nintendo wants this to be a success.

 

[Petrae]

Yeah, and I'm sure people also look at the price point of laptops and tablets and think desktops can match it as well.

It's a fucking portable device. It doesn't matter whether you guys will primarily use it indoors, the fact that it was heavily marketed thus far as being a console + portable in one, and that you can take it outside, and people know to expect a different costower ratio for portable devices. This isn't something new

Portability doesn't mean shit when most people have tablets already to play games on the go and you can't put a Switch in your pocket like you could with a 3DS. You have to carry it around-- probably in a bag of some sort-- and it's not going to be convenient to haul around just to play Pokémon when you're not at home.

And it does matter whether "us guys" are going to primarily use it indoors, because we're commonly the early adopters that buy in. Other people are more likely to wait and weigh their options. Nintendo isn't the auto-buy that it used to be anymore, and is coming off of both Wii hangover and WiiU indifference from its average consumer base.

 

[Nameless]

Nintendo likes to use limited availability to build hype and at this price enthusiasts and Nintendo fans alone will keep Switches flying off shelves through 2017. But the handheld crowd will decide if it sinks or swims long term. I don't see Switch being all that attractive to new console buyers next to a $199-$250 Slim and One S.

 

[arimanius]

$250 sounds good depending on what comes with it and if it's not a gimp model. If I have to pay $300 for a deluxe version then both versions would be to high.

 

[vasametropolis]

The weird thing here is that while you include the lower priced model for the PS3, you ignored that the 360 also had one for $299. Sure, you'd have to deal with the memory situation, but you'd still get the console for only $50 more than a Wii was at launch, and you'd have access to the system's year long headstart in building up its library (which did, at that point, include several really big system sellers).

Did anyone buy the 360 Core though? It was an awful SKU. To be honest I forgot about it, but maybe because I forgot it existed that's enough of a point :/

Technically you are correct. I think Nintendo winning by $50 is still enough TBH.

 

[Oregano]

So are those based on the new model or not? I mean both uses the X1, but dosn't mean it has the same cooling or exactly innards.

The fact that they seem to still only include 3GB of RAM probably indicate it's the exact same innards.

 

[Mystic_Wanderer]

What level of performance at that price? How many games will fit on HD? Not very optimistic.

 

[Khrno]

Too expensive. I dont think there's a market for a handheld beyond 200 dollars.

Is that the conclusion you came to regarding the Switch?

 

[Neoxon]

You're putting words in my mouth. Where the heck I said it's a bad thing ? I said it just won't be enough ? That it wont make it a success at this price point ? Sure these games will sell well to Switch buyers. But will these Wii U ports, which didn't make Wii U a success, make Switch a success ?

It's not like we're gonna get another Smash game in the near future (especially if the rumors of Sakurai doing another project are true), & the Switch kinda needs all the help it can get.

 

[Keyouta]

Hopefully including a game because I'll be paying 330 CAD.

 

[Devilgunman]

Here are some price comparisons that I think were responsible for the Wii's success.

PS3 - $499
360 - $399
Wii - $249

For averages consumers, back when the market offerings were simpler, this was a hilarious no brainer decision and I don't think we need to read much beyond that.

Now:

PS4: $250 (sale) - $299 (regular) with bundled game
One: $250 (sale) - $299 (regular) with bundled game
Switch: $250 (presumably no game)

So, explain to me how $250 is the perfect price for this thing again? If it's $250 it needs a game packed in. Average consumers will probably not care much that it's a 2-in-1 if their majority use case is a home console and it's surpassed by value by the competition. It's not enough for Nintendo to match on price these days... they need to BEAT everyone because of their third party support problem. At $250 their are way better options.

I've left off the PS4 Pro because I don't expect the average consumer to know it even exists. If they did they wouldn't pay the extra for it.

$250 is reasonable for us, but what is Nintendo's hope here? If the direct currency exchange indicates $213, to me they'd be wise to price it lower than $250 if they aren't intending a game pack in.

Every console is always priced higher than they should to sell it to early adopters, you know, people that actually wait in line for days just to be the very first ones to get it. These people won't even hasitate to drop $300-$400 on a launch system let alone $250.

 

[LordRaptor]

What? A dude can't be skeptical about a square controller where each Joy-Con looks as if it barely fits in a teenagers hands? C'mon now, each Joy-Con is tiny as hell. See the Mario Kart segment of the trailer or the plane scene.

I can't imagine the square holder thing fixes that, adding to the discomfort. I'll probably be proven wrong when I get hands on it and get used to it, but as it stands there's zero doubt it looks uncomfortable and awkward to use.

It looks identical in form factor to a 360 pad with the chatpad accessory.

 

[sphinx]

if the Nikkei thread/news reactions are anything to go by, nintendo has a big problem.

people saying 250 is too much, they think it's basically a handheld "I didn't care for Vita or 3DS at $250, that's not gonna change here"

nintendo has a lot of homework to do to tell people "this is a HOME CONSOLE, HOME console,"

because "Handheld" and "$249" in the same sentence just spells disaster for a dedicated handheld, no matter how powerful or who made it.

 

[Vena]

So are those based on the new model or not? I mean both uses the X1, but dosn't mean it has the same cooling or exactly innards.

Well for one, new model isn't in a random gaffer's hands.

For two, with the same chip and a smaller shell, they would need to be wizards with magic to overcome that throttling problem. The size and speed of a fan only go so far if your chip simply creates too much heat in a short amount of time that is faster than the thermal conduction can dissipate.

The fact that they seem to still only include 3GB of RAM probably indicate it's the exact same innards.

Its the same innards.

 

[cw_sasuke]

Portability doesn't mean shit when most people have tablets already to play games on the go and you can't put a Switch in your pocket like you could with a 3DS. You have to carry it around-- probably in a bag of some sort-- and it's not going to be convenient to haul around just to play Pokémon when you're not at home.

You cant play BotW and Skyrim on your iPad - Switch isnt for the market that wants to play Candy Crush on a bigger screen.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Portability doesn't mean shit when most people have tablets already to play games on the go and you can't put a Switch in your pocket like you could with a 3DS. You have to carry it around-- probably in a bag of some sort-- and it's not going to be convenient to haul around just to play Pokémon when you're not at home.

So people have found ways to deal with "hauling around" tablet, yet with the Switch they'll suddenly be completely lost because it can't fit in their pocket? Really? And people aren't playing the same games they play on consoles on their tablets...

if the Nikkei thread/news reactions are anything to go by, nintendo has a big problem.

Hahahaha, it's not in any way. The idea that GAF even remotely mirrors the consumers is general is...it's beyond laughable

 

[The Boat]

There are people here expecting 200$?

 

[Dark Cloud]

OK I've fully read the article and I understand 80% of it. I was about to go to bed so I'm not gonna bother with a full (or elegant) translation, but these are the main points of Nikkei.

Let me get this out of the way first, and sorry for highlighting but I'm afraid no one will pay attention otherwise and this thread will reach 200 pages based on nothing:

In no way does Nikkei state that they understand this is the price Nintendo will ask for the Switch. IT IS SPECULATION ON THEIR PART.

These are the arguments for this speculated price from their article:

- Mr. Iwata's once said in the Jan 30 2014 investor meeting when pressed by an investor about how the Wii U failed to take off: "Whether a platform can achieve great market penetration or not depends on its momentum". In other words, the starting price is an deciding factor in the succes of a console. Nikkei follows up by saying that the Switch's starting performance can thus be somewhat predicted based on what Nintendo announces the price will be on Jan 13th.

- Nikkei says that the Super Famicom, Nintendo 64, GameCube, Wii and Wii U all started with a pricing of 25.000 yen. Meanwhile, Sony's PlayStation 4 has already received two price cuts and currently costs 29.980 yen (500GB model). Within the game industry there seems to be a consensus that the Switch will be around 30.000 yen.

- Nintendo CEO Mr. Kimishima has said that "There are no plans to sell [the Switch] at a loss". Within the stock market, an analyst at Rakuten has said: "If we take market penetration in mind, I'd expect around 20.000 yen". Market penetration influences the sales of software > if the Switch is sold at a higher price than 25.000 yen, investors will be wary.

And that's basically it. They also mention that Nintendo has said that not everything about the Switch has been revealed so it is possible that they will reveal another secret about the Switch on Friday. But Nikkei also mentions that "special features" (gimmicks) make third party support difficult and they name the Wii U as an example.

Disclaimer: I am N2 level in Japanese, I don't really read Japanese newspapers and absolutely no financial newspapers like Nikkei. So maybe I'm misenterpreting all of this, in which case I hope anyone with a better understanding of Japanese to correct me. Also maybe Nikkei has a tendency to post things like speculation but in reality they really have sources for this. Idk

Tldr: As far as I can tell Nikkei is just speculating about the price just like everyone of you is on GAF. This isn't a scoop or leak or rumor.

Don't worry this will be ignored. $250 is a great price no matter if it's even speculation.

 

[darkazcura]

The new model?

Were are the benchmarks?

The Switch clock leak was always compared to the old Shield TV because the new one was literally just announced. Your point was that it ran at worse clocks than the Shield TV based on leaks, and I doubt you were talking about the new Shield TV.

But yes, sure, the new one may have better cooling to reduce throttling but I doubt it.

Or not.

We don't know, that's the whole point. I mean is a possibility, but just a possibility that the new model throttles just like the old one.

But this has nothing to do with your original post. You were clearly talking about the clock speed comparisons from a few weeks ago before the existence of the new Shield TV even existed. Now we have information that the original clock speed leak thread may have been kneejerky.

And if your whole point is that we don't know..couldn't I say the same exact thing for the Switch in general?

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

The fact that they seem to still only include 3GB of RAM probably indicate it's the exact same innards.

Or not.

We don't know, that's the whole point. I mean is a possibility, but just a possibility that the new model throttles just like the old one.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Also I think mental bins might change once Pokémon is announced. It might not be next week but it won't be long into the system's life.

Part of Pokemon's success lies in the affordability of hardware. And the affordability will lie with the 3DS. Why is mom and dad going to buy the Switch over the 3DS for Pokemon? Just for Stars? Maybe there will be some crazy deals and bundles come November, I don't know.

 

[Dark Cloud]

Portability doesn't mean shit when most people have tablets already to play games on the go and you can't put a Switch in your pocket like you could with a 3DS. You have to carry it around-- probably in a bag of some sort-- and it's not going to be convenient to haul around just to play Pokémon when you're not at home.

And it does matter whether "us guys" are going to primarily use it indoors, because we're commonly the early adopters that buy in. Other people are more likely to wait and weigh their options. Nintendo isn't the auto-buy that it used to be anymore, and is coming off of both Wii hangover and WiiU indifference from its average consumer base.

How are you playing BotW and other games on your tablet?

 

[Rolf NB]

I expected 249$/€ myself, so obviously all my other predictions for 2017 are going to come true as well. It's science.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Part of Pokemon's success lies in the affordability of hardware. And the affordability will lie with the 3DS. Why is mom and dad going to buy the Switch over the 3DS for Pokemon? Just for Stars? Maybe there will be some crazy deals and bundles come November, I don't know.

Why do they buy the XBO and PS4 over the Wii U then if all they care about is cost?
It's incredibly that in 2017 we still have people doubting Pokemon will sell on whatever it's released on

 

[vasametropolis]

...that doesn't make any sense.

If it sits next to the PS4 and the Xbox One on the shelf, how will the average consumer not compare it to a home console in terms of value? How does that not make sense?

 

[Ansatz]

The Wii U has proven my point. There isn't a big market out there for a Nintendo only console. Why would a gamer who wants a good gaming device, buy a Nintendo only box if you can buy a PS4/Xbox One for the same money or even cheaper (or upgrade their PC).
That's probably why Nintendo went with a hybrid, but I said in my reply that I doubt that there's a big market waiting for such a thing or even why third party developers should use the Switch.

Then answering your sentences about why the other consoles keep selling, well numerous reasons. For example let's take some kid who still has a PS3, why would someone buy a switch if you can buy a PS4 / Xbox one for cheap?
And again, I bought a 3DS and 2 Wii U's last gen, I'm one of the Nintendo hardcore fans, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't be critical of them.

It's all about the image.

Nintendo sold 70M+ current gen hardware units and just renewed their mind share with Pokemon Go, Zelda BotW and fwiw Mario Runner. The potential to hit big is there if they play their cards right, but you have to drop the notion of 'consumers interested in a video game product' and think more in the lines of Wii-like 'fads' for a lack of a better term which they have the capacity to achieve.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

The Switch clock leak was always compared to the old Shield TV because the new one was literally just announced. Your point was that it ran at worse clocks than the Shield TV based on leaks, and I doubt you were talking about the new Shield TV.

But yes, sure, the new one may have better cooling to reduce throttling but I doubt it.

Actually I was talking about the new shield TV, isn't the old one discontinued?

 

[Mpl90]

OK I've fully read the article and I understand 80% of it. I was about to go to bed so I'm not gonna bother with a full (or elegant) translation, but these are the main points of Nikkei.

Let me get this out of the way first, and sorry for highlighting but I'm afraid no one will pay attention otherwise and this thread will reach 200 pages based on nothing:

In no way does Nikkei state that they understand this is the price Nintendo will ask for the Switch. IT IS SPECULATION ON THEIR PART.

These are the arguments for this speculated price from their article:

- Mr. Iwata's once said in the Jan 30 2014 investor meeting when pressed by an investor about how the Wii U failed to take off: "Whether a platform can achieve great market penetration or not depends on its momentum". In other words, the starting price is an deciding factor in the succes of a console. Nikkei follows up by saying that the Switch's starting performance can thus be somewhat predicted based on what Nintendo announces the price will be on Jan 13th.

- Nikkei says that the Super Famicom, Nintendo 64, GameCube, Wii and Wii U all started with a pricing of 25.000 yen. Meanwhile, Sony's PlayStation 4 has already received two price cuts and currently costs 29.980 yen (500GB model). Within the game industry there seems to be a consensus that the Switch will be around 30.000 yen.

- Nintendo CEO Mr. Kimishima has said that "There are no plans to sell [the Switch] at a loss". Within the stock market, an analyst at Rakuten has said: "If we take market penetration in mind, I'd expect around 20.000 yen". Market penetration influences the sales of software > if the Switch is sold at a higher price than 25.000 yen, investors will be wary.

And that's basically it. They also mention that Nintendo has said that not everything about the Switch has been revealed so it is possible that they will reveal another secret about the Switch on Friday. But Nikkei also mentions that "special features" (gimmicks) make third party support difficult and they name the Wii U as an example.

Disclaimer: I am N2 level in Japanese, I don't really read Japanese newspapers and absolutely no financial newspapers like Nikkei. So maybe I'm misenterpreting all of this, in which case I hope anyone with a better understanding of Japanese to correct me. Also maybe Nikkei has a tendency to post things like speculation but in reality they really have sources for this. Idk

Tldr: As far as I can tell Nikkei is just speculating about the price just like everyone of you is on GAF. This isn't a scoop or leak or rumor.

Quick translation of the article below by me for those who still wanted to know what Nikkei was saying directly:

Nintendo, target price of 25,500 YEN.

25,500 YEN. For those people following Nintendo, this price is probably something worth paying attention to.

No, it's not their stock price. It's the sale price of the new Nintendo Switch console that will be revealed on the 13th of this month.

"Whether or not the platform spreads widely will be decided by momentum". Company president Satoru Iwata, who passed away suddenly in 2015, made this comment in relation to aiming for the success of the platform as a family games machine.

The tone is pretty different between the two translations. We need maybe a third one to state the record clear, and by that I mean a translation /summary of the entire article.

 

[120v]

broadly speaking, if somebody wants to buy a ps or xbox they'll choose it over Switch regardless of price

Switch will live or die based on its "home gizmo" market appeal, whether $250 is a good value proposition in that regard, whether its own software will be enough to carry it, ect

 

[hughesta]

do people really think $250 is too much for Nintendo's new home console/portable hybrid

jesus christ

 

[UnemployedVillain]

If it sits next to the PS4 and the Xbox One on the shelf, how will the average consumer not compare it to a home console in terms of value? How does that not make sense?

By the games? By the hardware features? Like everything else people buy. Do you think the average consumer has spec charts on their phone when browsing Gamestop? Do you think they're asking Best Buy reps what the GFLOPS of each system are when they're in the games section?

You seem to adjust the intelligence of the "average consumer" to whatever makes them follow your line of thinking. They can't be smart enough to know the specs of each system, yet dumb enough to see them next to each other on the shelf and not be able to determine how they differ and how that affects their value

 

[darkazcura]

Actually I was talking about the new shield TV, isn't the old one discontinued?

Sorry I doubt it, lol. You were clearly thinking about the clock speed comparison thread from a few weeks ago before the new Shield TV was even announced.

EDIT: I'm being too harsh for no reason. Sorry

 

[gogogow]

Why do they buy the XBO and PS4 over the Wii U then if all they care about is cost?
It's incredibly that in 2017 we still have people doubting Pokemon will sell on whatever it's released on

It's a fad! It's going strong for 20+ years, but this Pokemon fad will end any time now!

 

[vasametropolis]

By the games? By the hardware features? Like everything else people buy. Do you think the average consumer has spec charts on their phone when browsing Gamestop? Do you think they're asking Best Buy reps what the GFLOPS of each system are when they're in the games section?

They will look at all 3, look at the price, then look at what games are available. As they always have and they should. Then they will buy one. And it probably won't be the Switch.

 

[Nairume]

Did anyone buy the 360 Core though? It was an awful SKU. To be honest I forgot about it, but maybe because I forgot it existed that's enough of a point :/

Technically you are correct. I think Nintendo winning by $50 is still enough TBH.

It sold well enough for them to keep it around for a couple of years before they started selling a slightly cheaper version of it that also included a memory card.

It was still $50 more yes (and then only $20 more when they rebranded it as the 360 Arcade), but its still a massive difference from being $150 more.

 

[Dark Cloud]

By the games? By the hardware features? Like everything else people buy. Do you think the average consumer has spec charts on their phone when browsing Gamestop? Do you think they're asking Best Buy reps what the GFLOPS of each system are when they're in the games section?

lol some of these guys I tell you 😂

 

[WrenchNinja]

Why do they buy the XBO and PS4 over the Wii U then if all they care about is cost?
It's incredibly that in 2017 we still have people doubting Pokemon will sell on whatever it's released on

Aren't you the one making a big deal about portability here or are you changing your argument? Cost matters a lot more with portables.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Big mistake. Same price as Vita and that was clearly too much.

Consumers are accustom to PS4 and XB1 being $250.

To build early momentum and the sell out factor they should have taken the Wii approach. Wii was 250 but it was 150 less than the competition.

Switch needed to be 199, imo.

 

[Plum]

If it sits next to the PS4 and the Xbox One on the shelf, how will the average consumer not compare it to a home console in terms of value?

Because you can also take it out of the dock and play the exact same games anywhere. The thing is specifically designed to show that off, and it's in literally all of the marketing material so far.

Even if you were right it doesn't make any sense. Would a consumer see an Amazon Fire TV Box and a PS4 Pro next to each other and think "Yep, they're worth about the same!"? They both play video games and they both stream Netflix/Amazon video/etc.

 

[Irishonion]

I was expecting to pay 300 for it. Hopefully that would be the 'deluxe' edition.

I'm just in a quandary about day one or not.

Looks like zelda botw won't be out till months after switch release. But knowing Nintendos, 'issues' with stock I don't want to be trying to find a console when zelda releases, so not sure if I should pre order or not...

 

[reelbigtink]

Big mistake. Same price as Vita and that was clearly too much.

Consumers are accustom to PS4 and XB1 being $250.

To build early momentum and the sell out factor they should have taken the Wii approach. Wii was 250 but it was 150 less than the competition.

Switch needed to be 199, imo.

The Vita's pricing wasn't the problem there.

 

[pulsemyne]

To put things in perspective the WiiU launhced at the following price in Japan
"Nintendo's Wii U console will start at ¥26,250 ($US337) in Japan and release on December 8th, it was announced during the Japanese Nintendo Direct presentation today."
That was the basic model. Which launched in America at 299 dollars. So it was cheaper in America than in Japan.

 

[thefro]

Thanks to Japanese Nintendo

Just want to note this lines up pretty closely with LKD's report of 199/249 pounds in the UK when you factor in VAT taxes.

Really think there is a chance this is $199 in the US.

Oh yeah, apparently Japan has a 10% VAT built-into the price as opposed to 20% in the UK. That matches perfectly.