balladofwindfishes
Member
Those people don't exist, so it'd be hard to tell them that.
Unless maybe you can provide some evidence to the contrary?
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Trump wants health insurance for everyone
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Those people don't exist, so it'd be hard to tell them that.
Unless maybe you can provide some evidence to the contrary?
These are the kinds of people we are dealing with:
Anything is in play, and the most dangerous part is that Republicans know this and are more than willing to trample on these fools for their own gain.
Oh my god.
This has to be a plant.
I'm dying.
I'm dead.
dynamitejim
Member
Employer switches to shittier plan while increasing employee contribution and blames it on "that darn Obamacare"?
Mercy killing would be preferable to that.
Lord Frieza
Member
I mean, the statement is super loaded anyway. He wants it for eveyone could mean anything.
It's hilarious, the only people I've ever heard complain about this is the healthy.
And I'm not even saying Obamacare is ideal. It's not. But until we have a good alternative in place setting fire to what we have is not the way to fix healthcare here.(And if they don't do something soon certainly won't help premiums..in fact you could see them go through the roof)
But I expect people could come to realize this in time if the repubs dont get their shit together.
cpp_is_king
Member
The facts that their premiums went up while their coverage went down? Or the facts that the "average premium across all covered people" have gone down? The latter is comparing apples to oranges, and it certainly means jack shit to all the people who got the short end of the stick in that deal.
perfectchaos007
Member
What's wrong with Rand Paul's proposal?
ryutaro's mama
Member
In a year, the wall will be framed by Trump as a bad Hillary and Obama idea.
BoosterDuck
Banned
this is how Trump's going to present a replacement for the ACA in his 4 year term https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5th225wgsk
if he gets elected again then he'll just blame it on Obama
if he gets elected again then he'll just blame it on Obama
Ninja Scooter
Member
The myth that their premiums went up because of Obamacare, which is largely bullshit. But don't stop that from perpetuating the Black Bogeyman myth.
It centers around tax credits and HSA's which doesn't help the working class or poor at all. They're still screwed. Also if you have a preexisting condition, well bye, nice knowing ya.
It's not.
I attended health care rallies hosted by my representatives at the time and saw similar signage firsthand. One of them was, literally, a woman in a disability scooter with an oxygen tank with a sign saying something to the effect of "Get government out of my Medicare!"
You just have to look under the right rocks.
AcceptableGhost
Member
a lot of these republican health care plans sound like they may as well just hand cyanide tablets to the poor
ReBurn
Gold Member
That isn't really what that says. Premiums not rising as fast isn't the same thing as health insurance being more affordable.
It's also extremely out of date. Like from two years ago. It's more recently been reported that premiums for many plans jumped 25% or more this year and that for people to be able to afford coverage they have to change plans, going against one of the promises that people would be able to keep the plans they like. Not to mention that not all doctors accept ACA marketplace plans, so people could lose the coverage they had as well as access to their doctors.
There was a pretty good NYT analysis right before ACA open enrollment started.
I'm skeptical of the Republicans' ability to do better, but I wouldn't exactly call ACA a rousing success at this point.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I mean, Rand Paul proposed it, so that should be enough right there.
cpp_is_king
Member
So it was just a complete coincidence that as soon as the competition disappared and there was only one choice remaining, all of the price increases and lack of coverage just magically happened at exactly the same time completely independently?
BlastProcessing
Member
Valkerionseven
Member
Think everyone knew the Obamacare opponents would pull this nonsense. Just not so soon lol.
cpp_is_king
Member
So let's hear it then. What, specifically, is terrible about Rand Paul's proposal? So far I've seen 3 people in this thread say it's terrible, at least one of them admitting that they feel it's not even necessary to know what it says to reach that conclusion. Not very compelling arguments being put forth, wouldn't you agree?
It may very well be terrible, but if you're just going to thread-shit while having no substantive contribution, then yea...
balladofwindfishes
Member
What insurance does a person with cancer get under Rand Paul's proposal?
Chie Satonaka
Member
No he doesn't.
From what I understand, Obamacare IS the Republican alternative to what Democrats really want. Didn't Dems propose something in the 90's, and the republicans countered with something similar to the ACA? And now that it is raising premiums, etc. (which, again according to what I have heard, are still lower than they would have been if the ACA had never been enacted), the Republicans get to say it is the Democrats fault?
He'll bring an even bigger stack of blank papers to show us.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Eh...even if Trump wasn't bullshitting, this is exactly the sort of talk that could get Republicans to start thinking about impeaching him.
BadenBadenLily
Banned
Trump's definition of health insurance probably means a garbo plan with a $10,000+ deductible, with 70/30 coinsurance after and no out of pocket maximum. Plus laughably low limits on damages from malpractice that the GOP wants so badly. "Shitty doctor paralyzes you from the waist down during a routine back surgery? Here's $40k for your trouble. Have fun being crippled for the rest of your life!".
If his plan is anything similar to what his HHS secretary has already proposed it will be an absolute disaster that will make health insurance even worse than it was prior to Obamacare. It will cause the majority of Americans (and their families) who have decent insurance through their employer to ether see a premium increase of 400% or more likely simply outright lose their benefits.
If his plan is anything similar to what his HHS secretary has already proposed it will be an absolute disaster that will make health insurance even worse than it was prior to Obamacare. It will cause the majority of Americans (and their families) who have decent insurance through their employer to ether see a premium increase of 400% or more likely simply outright lose their benefits.
Uh huh. Sure.
Someone should ask him the pointed question of whether he would veto legislation sent to him by the Republicans in the House and Senate that either does not provide coverage to everyone, or eliminates coverage for people who currently have it. Just to get it on the record.
Someone should ask him the pointed question of whether he would veto legislation sent to him by the Republicans in the House and Senate that either does not provide coverage to everyone, or eliminates coverage for people who currently have it. Just to get it on the record.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
I haven't looked at Paul's plan, but wasn't this the dude the equated a "right to free healthcare" to slavery?
I do know that, but, nonetheless, it's what it is called by the masses. Once it is killed it will no longer be called that. I have no doubt Trump will want his name in there somewhere despite that Obama didn't even want it to be nicknamed Obamacare in the first place.
Nah, the inverse is more likely. He'll fall in line and pass whatever is sent to him. He'll just lie and spin about the legislation's actual effects.
Because it would re-enable insurance companies to deny coverage for whatever they deem to be a pre-existing condition.
Seems pretty fucking cut and dry what's so terrible about it to me.
But I assume that if you have mountains of money to deal with the cost or have no one in your family with pre-existing conditions, that doesn't mean a lot to you.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
Unless there's a shit-ton of dirt on Trump from the Russia stuff, I guarantee Trump is going to break with Ryan on that issue. The fact that he is wildly fiscally irresponsible is one of the few BENEFITS of his presidency compared to other GOP hopefuls because he's not any kind of true believer when it comes to cutting social programs, and he's not going to want history to look at him as the guy who destroyed Medicare and Social Security.
Edit: On-topic, Trump's a fucking moron who doesn't even understand why Obamacare was basically the only way to get anything even remotely resembling universal coverage while still maintaining private insurance as the mechanism for distribution of that coverage.
I really hope he does. Seriously if it can help more people than the current system and move us to UHC, I'd be fine with it. Shit, rename it Trumpcare, and I'd still go out and campaign for it.
Ain't gonna happen though, I'd bet a lot of money what we will get will be significantly worse then Obamacare.
Ain't gonna happen though, I'd bet a lot of money what we will get will be significantly worse then Obamacare.
LegendofJoe
Member
That happened thanks to Marco Rubio. He got rid of the risk corridor payments to insurance companies that were designed to prevent that from happening. If it had never been taken out the competition on the insurance exchanges would be a lot more robust and premiums would be lower.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Yes, Hillary (yes the butcher of Benghazi) proposed what was basically single payer healthcare in the 90s.
Neverthelesser
Member
It's all good. He'll replace it with the Affordable Care Act!
It wasn't quite single payer, but it was a lot more liberal than the ACA. People were straight calling her a communist when this was going down. It's why I find it hilarious that people think Hillary is a Republican-lite.
Nydius
Member
I don't know if he's just that clueless or if he's purposely trying to sabotage GOP Congressmen and make their midterms a pain in the ass to win.
Surely he has to know that the Congressional GOP isn't going to sign off on ANY new plan because they've spent the last 6 years promising to repeal it wholesale. They've had ample opportunity to put forth a bill (or bills) to make ACA better but sat on their hands instead. Now that they have a majority, they're salivating to repeal it - consequences be damned - and have been working on the procedure to do just that while Obama is in his final weeks in office.
They voted party line against ACA and they're going to vote party line to kill it.
But this is the guy who keeps threatening car manufacturers on Twitter and in the press, claiming he, himself, will impose a ridiculous Mexico tax so I'm guessing he's just clueless.
Surely he has to know that the Congressional GOP isn't going to sign off on ANY new plan because they've spent the last 6 years promising to repeal it wholesale. They've had ample opportunity to put forth a bill (or bills) to make ACA better but sat on their hands instead. Now that they have a majority, they're salivating to repeal it - consequences be damned - and have been working on the procedure to do just that while Obama is in his final weeks in office.
They voted party line against ACA and they're going to vote party line to kill it.
But this is the guy who keeps threatening car manufacturers on Twitter and in the press, claiming he, himself, will impose a ridiculous Mexico tax so I'm guessing he's just clueless.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
This thing 65+ million people voted for was undermined and dragged through the mud, and meh, it barely got any attention. It will forever annoy and disgust me what Republicans have been able to get away with.
shawnbuddy
Member
Isn't this just Medicare for All? I bet Paul Ryan can't stop shitting himself.
Rand Paul's proposal has 3 parts
1) Eliminate all the minimum coverages of the ACA, ie covered preventative care. One of the few good aspects of the ACA
2) Push people into HDHP+HSA which will cover even less than they do now thanks to 1)^. These plans are shit for health coverage. They exist for the same reasons as 401ks -- tax shelters and shifting costs from employers to employees while placating the latter with the bone of a small employer contribution. They are triple-tax advantaged and awesome for people that don't go to the doctor, have a large employer contribution, or have money to save. He doesn't even dispute this -- his argument is that if people have to pay for their own healthcare, prices will go down. I don't necessarily think he is wrong about that (it's the same issue with student tuition) but in the meantime you're fucking over everyone who can't afford it.
Note: These are the same plans that people complain about when they bitch that Obamacare marketplace plans are absurdly expensive and get you garbage coverage. AKA these people you brought up:
3) Let people come together and buy group insurance. Ok, this is an interesting idea but I imagine it will just lead to healthy people grouping together for cheap insurance and fuck everyone else
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