Getting rid of group insurance all together would likely be better.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Trump wants health insurance for everyone
- Thread starter slit
- Start date
- Status
Getting rid of group insurance all together would likely be better.
hydragonwarrior
Member
I hate to say it, but perhaps these kind of horrendous result is the only way for Dems to get back in power. People will only do things until it directly affects them.
Employer-sponsored health insurance is a stupid idea and the biggest obstacle for any reform. I think that is more important than group versus individual. Employer-subsidized individual policies would be just as bad
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Democrats really need to get ahead of the curve here and make it known that it's all the Republican's fault when they inevitably fail to deliver a suitable replacement for the ACA.
Paul's plan would elimitate the pre-existing coverage requirements, no individual mandates (naturally), shift the burden of paying for insurance away from employers, allow insurance to be purchased across state lines, and focus heavily on health savings accounts. And it will bring back the cheap, practically worthless, plans that didn't meet minimum requirements under the ACA.
Basically the main effect is to increase profits for insurers, decrease costs for businesses, increase costs for individuals, while people with existing conditions will die or go bankrupt.
Then it gets fixed and the whole damn cycle starts all over again.
Its what I meant. Having all citizens exposed to pricing would actually create downward pressure on pricing, drug, doctors, excess care. Or the exposure to pricing creates a political pressure on national healthcare. Either is better than what we got.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
You can't not qualify for Obamacare. You can not qualify for subsidies to insurance purchased under the exchanges. You can not qualify for the Medicaid expansion if your state took it. But you can't not qualify for the ACA; a major component of it was banning plans from not covering people with pre-existing conditions and lifetime caps. No one, no matter how poor their health, can not qualify.
Yeah - unfortunately we have to rip the band-aid off a little (or a lot depending on how you look at it) to get actual change. Hiding the true cost of health insurance through employers has fucked us up.
They were talking about Obamacare not ACA.
Now that CPP has tons of responses to the question he was asking I wonder if he will be back?
Why do you keep making shit up?
PHOENIXZERO
Member
This as well for the bolded.
Nydius
Member
E: Sorry, misread. It's late and there's a lot of "nots" and "can'ts" in there.
RustyNails
Member
Republicans are going to scrap Obamacare, and pass the exact same fucking thing and call it American Patriotic Flag Lapel Pin Health Care or some other bullshit and all their fat idiot diseased fucks who wanted to repeal Obamacare will love it.
Knowing Trump he will just call it Trumpcare, dude seems to be in love with his name anyway
I wish, but no, they aren't decent enough or smart enough to do this.
Trump takes strong stances on both sides of an issue, has no plan to implement either. News at 11.
Lifting the Part D drug negotiation ban is at least a good idea but the even the value of that is inherently speculative.
Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.
Lifting the Part D drug negotiation ban is at least a good idea but the even the value of that is inherently speculative.
Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.
RustyNails
Member
But healthcare premiums always rose every year. Always. Look it up. But we stopped noticing the costs because our wages also increased every year, thereby offsetting additional costs. The reason why they are so expensive now is because our wages stopped growing in the 00's. It's only in the past 2 years that wages have been slowly rising, but unfortunately too little to offset the crazy premium costs.
Alcotholic
Banned
I'll believe it when I see it.
The governments of yore.These are the kinds of people we are dealing with:
Anything is in play, and the most dangerous part is that Republicans know this and are more than willing to trample on these fools for their own gain.
BlackLagoon
Member
But isn't non-insurance pricing in the US healthcare industry an incomprehensible clusterfuck? I keep hearing stories about how it's next to impossible to get a firm price for anything major before you go through with it, and then there's often dealing with different companies charging for different parts of the procedure. Getting this under control so you could actually get somewhat educated consumer and something resembling a competitive market would take comprehensive regulation, which the GOP will never go for.
Not to mention you can't really assume that the average person is capable of taking an educated, rational choice about which treatment is most cost-effective for them. The most prominent voices will be commercials and salesmen who would preferably overtreat them and the patient themselves usually don't want to take any chances and go for they perceive as "the best". There's also the ones who are really sick, they don't have the capacity to go on an extended search for the "right" establishment, they'll just go to what easiest and fastest.
Phrozenflame500
Member
While I appreciate Trump's open call for collective bargaining, which I do approve of, talk is cheap. Until he can provide a detailed plan and legislation to actually accomplish it, I'll remain skeptical.
exmachina64
Banned
....................
You are right, it is a clusterfuck but I am not advocating for price shopping ER service. I advocate for removing health care insurance from employment. Normalize the market to a national model or an individual insurance model.
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
Still think they are going gut Medicare and turn it into a shitty voucher system and then give it to everyone and that will be their "solution".
lol, "major". I recently had to go outside my insurance because reasons involving why I don't like HMOs. A large provider in my area, who I ultimately had to use, can't tell you what the non-insurance prices are for anything. Cash price on a checkup? Nobody knows. Cash price on physical therapy? Nobody knows. Billing called me to discuss and even they had no idea. They required you to pay what they charge insurance companies, then two months later you'd get a refund check to bring you down to the cash price after it ran through their system.
He could literally, on live TV, take an obamacare folder, scratch off Obama, put on trump show it, and his followers would cheer at the amazing thing he made
ImpracticalPassword
Member
It's all good. He'll replace it with the Affordable Care Act!
Did any GOP politician or right wing news source explicitly tell people that ACA and Obamacare are different things? Or is this just a weird assumption that some dumbass voters made?
Dreams-Visions
Member
and when you have a plan to propose, Donald, we'll hear it. at which time you can discuss whether keeping what we have is sufficient.
No they didn't, they just never say they're the same thing as they now the GOP's base hates Obama. By and large, ACA is mostly referred to as 'Obamacare' by the media, politicians, their constituents, etc -- both left and right leaning. By referring it as Obamacare, they've demonized it and made it take on a life of its own, which makes it very easy for the ignorant to believe they're two separate things. You'd be surprised how many people think they're two different things.
Neverthelesser
Member
Definitely just the latter. EDIT: Beaten, and way more eloquently at that.
Lord Frieza
Member
Mr. Giggles
Member
Lol, wow.... I guess because it was done by Obama is because they hate it
It's all good. He'll replace it with the Affordable Care Act!
Holy shit. I've seen this image a few times but never took the time to read it.
Ok, you got me, good one
exmachina64
Banned
Exactly.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
No. They hate the extra taxes, and deep down they don't really want to change it much at all from what was there before, outside of loosening up the few regulations that were there, primarily tort reform.
The thing is, it's very, very hard to argue against people becoming bankrupt by medical bills because of pre-existing conditions, and Obamacare is pretty much their prefered way to do that if they have to.
However there is the third "high risk pool" option, where you just promise people with preexisting condiditions to get access to a special government subsidized plan just for people with preexisting conditions. The beauty of that option is that it would theoretically do the job if it were funded well enough, but they could also just put a few pennies toward it and have an answer to questions about pre existing conditions without ever really doing anything about it.
But they would probably prefer Obamacare over high risk pools if they actually had to worry about funding it properly.
They don't hate it -- if they did, they would have a replacement plan. They're just cynical and have convinced people to hate it for votes. I mean, Paul Ryan hates it but he hates anything that benefits poor people. Nobody in the GOP believes their own BS about the ACA. Remember the death panels?
Frankly it is a testament to their propaganda prowess. You see the same thing with the economy -- people are convinced the economy is tanking against all evidence. Even people in areas doing exceptionally well. Then Trump comes in and 3 or 4 companies announce a handful of jobs and he has saved the american workforce. Nevermind the sub-5% unemployment rate
cpp_is_king
Member
I like the cheap plans. Believe it or not, a lot of people specifically *dont want* insurance because they feel it's an unnecessary cost. That should be a choice they are allowed to make. The cheap plans gives more freedom for people to choose a plan that meets *their* minimum specifications, not the government's.
What exactly is bad about purchasing across state lines? I wish i had another alternative besides covered ca, why are monopolies evil when it comes to everything but insurance?
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
It would be fucking hilarious if he ends up getting single payer through.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Paul Ryan is a true Ayn Rand believer, he would never go for anything close to that lol.
Fantastical
Death Prophet
Republicans seem pretty politically savvy. They're basically winning the government right now and doing so with less popular votes.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Problem with buying across state lines is it becomes a race to the bottom in states with the least regulations to offer the cheapest, shittiest plans. Look at how Delaware has become a tax haven for corporations.
You put everyone on health insurance because you want a big risk pool that includes everyone, young and old, men and women, healthy and sick. If you don't need health insurance then why would anyone buy it until they need it? Premiums would go through the roof for anyone who needs it because no one else is paying into the system.
Lord Frieza
Member
Oh yeah, he's going to get that through a GOP lead Congress. Totally.
cpp_is_king
Member
And yet despite that massive pool size from ACA, coverage got worse and premiums went up. Sure, it helped the people that had no coverage, but many others got screwed.
If the cheap shit plans end up in a race to the bottom, then people don't buy them, that's the nice thing about having a choice. The cost/quality ratio ends up finding an equilibrium because economics
- Status