cyborgnumberblue
Member
Is there a pre-approved list of people that people are allowed to be associated or friends with?
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Popular gaming youtuber Jon Tron is a sexist shit-head - #JonTronIsOverParty?
- Thread starter Inferno313
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Is there a pre-approved list of people that people are allowed to be associated or friends with?
It's funny that these guys are "shitheads" for asking their fluff entertainment to stay fluff, but the folks saying "I'll never watch this JohnTron again!" are now #woke (as they say) and to be commended I guess?
This isn't a new phenomenom. Individuals tend to not like the world of personal politics and entertainment colliding because it creates just this sort of crossroads. Inelegantly expressing that opinion shouldn't be finger wagged at.
Who is the Nazi in that image?
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Things like this make me glad I don't follow any of these 'youtube personalities'.
Trump reinstated the "global gag rule". It's an executive order that harms women around the world, and is a Republican presidential tradition since 1984.
http://nymag.com/thecut/2017/01/trump-reinstates-global-gag-rule-on-abortion.html
Yes I said that ironically lol.
TheChillyAcademic
Member
Not yet.
He clearly deserved it
I'm not sure I understand your point. Are you trying to say that this YouTube gaming personality and him using his platform to spout his bigotry is not related to video games?
Well, as long as as people don't act chubby chubby with nazi apologists, proud racists and sexists, then they should make the list of 'decent human beings' If that's what you're wondering.
I'm assuming you read my post earlier. This is just the start, you don't wait till bad shit happens, you try and prevent bad shit from happening.
Would like to hear the story with this.
cyborgnumberblue
Member
Really? THE Sonic '06? The 108 episode playlist I revisit every so often Sonic '06?
BlazeHedgehog
Member
I turned the other way for a lot of shit Jontron was doing over the years, just because I figured he was being edgy as a way to try to be funny
But it was hard to ignore the pattern his jokes typically seemed to take
After he gave that interview to Breitbart, I decided I didn't need to pay attention to Jontron anymore, and I purged his existence from all corners of my social media and video feeds. I haven't regretted it for a single moment.
Hearing he's stirring up trouble again really doesn't surprise me.
But it was hard to ignore the pattern his jokes typically seemed to take
After he gave that interview to Breitbart, I decided I didn't need to pay attention to Jontron anymore, and I purged his existence from all corners of my social media and video feeds. I haven't regretted it for a single moment.
Hearing he's stirring up trouble again really doesn't surprise me.
opticalmace
Member
lol.
They're all terrible monsters actually, however, they are terrible monsters to everyone equally, and equality is all that matters.
Just kidding, they do seem like genuinely nice people and after all this years I don't recall them saying anything actually offensive.
nkarafo
Member
Good post.Ironically you're probably going to get banned (i.e. suppressed) for expressing that opinion, thus proving your point. I disagree with your opinion on this issue, but I agree that you should have the right to express it and engage in respectful discussion.
Neogaf is an interesting place - when discussion on the matter comes up many people on one side (and only one side) of the debate are banned thus creating a self selected population of people and group think that is heavily (and arguably non-representatively) skewed to the progressive side. Anyone who does have a dissenting opinion is either banned, or is so afraid of being banned/dogpiled on that they do not express it. In contrast those on the other side of the issue are allowed to act with impunity, slinging unfounded accusations at the other side, calling people "sexist shit heads" etc - arguably behaviour that should result in a ban.
I think there can be an argument made that there is an issue in the tact that some in the progressive movement have chosen to take in what is an admirable goal. Equality is certainly where the world should be IMO, and something we all aspire towards. That doesn't mean that any and all tactics towards that goal are positive and helpful though - hence the term "SJW".
For example, often instead of trying to change hearts and minds of those we disagree with some of us progressives simply attack them, and demonise them. Arguably this does more to hurt our cause, and society as a whole, as it results in an "us against them" mentality from both sides, galvanising both sides and ultimately resulting in narrow mindedness from both sides.
In many ways, it could be argued that those kind of tactics helped give the presidency to trump as he united those who have felt (sometimes correctly) to be under attack over the past 4-8 years by the left. He successfully unified the right mostly because of the tactics used by some within the left.
The problem is that on this issue it seems that battle lines have been drawn by both sides, when really those of us seeking to change the world should be reaching out to those we want to change. Alienating and attacking people people we want to change isn't going to change them. If one were to be cynical about it one would suspect that is because many within our movement enjoy the feeling of righteous superiority rather than wanting to change others. As a progressive very much in favour of a more inclusive and diverse society, I equally very much dislike that little voice within me that says "you're better you're not sexist/racist/etc" - that voice is hubris, it is pride, it is self-righteousness. And it is not helpful in making the world a more inclusive place. It also makes my actions and opinions on the matter all the less altruistic and noble.
Personally I very much side with the progressive movement on this issue. However I am not so blinded by my own bias as to excuse the intolerable and unhelpful behaviour of many on my side, nor turn a blind eye to the "self selection" and bias within the Neogaf groupthink. Anyone who debates that "SJWs" exist, or believes that everything done to support their agenda is positive, is blinded by their own bias.
TLR You catch more bees with honey than with vinegar. If we really want to make the world a better and more inclusive place we should be using honey, not vinegar. Fewer ban hammers and less name calling, more engagement and hope.
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
You know he ain't, baby!
Max Knight
Member
This is precisely how I construed Jon's comment also, and English is my first language. If one blindly supports a women's cause just because they are women, and for no other reason, they are being sexist, regardless of whether the cause said women are fighting for is just. They're assuming that, because women are still in many ways an oppressed class (even in the first world), that anything many women are rallying to is automatically right without actually considering the movement's content or behavior. That's sexist, and I think that's exactly what Jon meant, and he's not wrong.
That said, I don't necessarily think that needed to be said by anyone, much less a video game-themed YouTube entertainer. I think it's pretty widely understood that the average person who says they support women is doing so from a position of supporting equal rights and representation. It's similar to how "Black Lives Matter" isn't insinuating that other lives don't matter; that's just something people fill in themselves to justify why they are uncomfortable with it, to avoid confronting the idea that they might have some racist ideas. Introspection is hard; that's why people lash out.
WITH ALL OF THAT SAID, Jon might not always express it in the most eloquent way, but he's pretty on-point a lot of the time in saying that the mainstream left has a habit of just shouting people down without being willing to have a two-sided conversation about any topic regarding social issues. If you disagree with them, even in a slight, nuanced way, you tend to get blacklisted as a bigoted shitlord who is unworthy of their time.
Just because someone has some silly ideas doesn't mean they are entirely bad, but I guess that depends on how strongly one feels about this particular issue (mild sexism).
I take the good with the bad. I'm not the type of person to throw the baby out with the bathwater. But I guess it all depends on whether or not you enjoy his content to begin with. I think the dude's super funny.
UtterlyPerplexed
Member
Ugh.
I have heard of the guy, but I haven't seen a single video of his in over six years. I'm sure as hell not about to give him any clicks anytime soon.
You did a heroic thing.
I have heard of the guy, but I haven't seen a single video of his in over six years. I'm sure as hell not about to give him any clicks anytime soon.
You did a heroic thing.
Blam
Member
Yeah I have but I mean seriously though if it's been revoked this many times at a certain point it's gonna be revoked again.
A Link to the Past
Banned
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IzkH6ggOHQ&feature=youtu.be&t=4m18s
It's somewhat tongue in cheek, but he has made comments that are kinda uncomfortably anti-feminist (ie, "I'm a humanist"). Elsewhere in the video, he says:
Jack: ”You fought for years for equal rights, this is it!" [about men hitting women back]
campfireweekend
Member
You are clearly arguing in good faith.
Surely, if I just give you enough information, you will engage with the topic at hand.
You know, for someone who just wants to get to the bottom of this you clearly display no initiative to find out yourself.
Also you asked for something Trump did besides his comments, not for the mission statement of the march.
cyborgnumberblue
Member
Yeah, I think it's tangentially related to video games at best and that this discussion is largely political as opposed to anything substantially gaming related. People have disagreed, and I see their points, but I still feel the same.
Who arbitrates the list of decent human beings? Do we elect a most decent human being?
Garrett Hawke
Member
it's not ironic at all.
people on neogaf are very rarely banned for having right wing opinions. they are banned for breaking the tos:
which a lot of far right opinions tend to include.
Ironically you're probably going to get banned (i.e. suppressed) for expressing that opinion, thus proving your point. I disagree with your opinion on this issue, but I agree that you should have the right to express it and engage in respectful discussion.
Neogaf is an interesting place - when discussion on the matter comes up many people on one side (and only one side) of the debate are banned thus creating a self selected population of people and group think that is heavily (and arguably non-representatively) skewed to the progressive side. Anyone who does have a dissenting opinion is either banned, or is so afraid of being banned/dogpiled on that they do not express it. In contrast those on the other side of the issue are allowed to act with impunity, slinging unfounded accusations at the other side, calling people "sexist shit heads" etc - arguably behaviour that should result in a ban.
I think there can be an argument made that there is an issue in the tact that some in the progressive movement have chosen to take in what is an admirable goal. Equality is certainly where the world should be IMO, and something we all aspire towards. That doesn't mean that any and all tactics towards that goal are positive and helpful though - hence the term "SJW".
For example, often instead of trying to change hearts and minds of those we disagree with some of us progressives simply attack them, and demonise them. Arguably this does more to hurt our cause, and society as a whole, as it results in an "us against them" mentality from both sides, galvanising both sides and ultimately resulting in narrow mindedness from both sides.
In many ways, it could be argued that those kind of tactics helped give the presidency to trump as he united those who have felt (sometimes correctly) to be under attack over the past 4-8 years by the left. He successfully unified the right mostly because of the tactics used by some within the left.
The problem is that on this issue it seems that battle lines have been drawn by both sides, when really those of us seeking to change the world should be reaching out to those we want to change. Alienating and attacking people people we want to change isn't going to change them. If one were to be cynical about it one would suspect that is because many within our movement enjoy the feeling of righteous superiority rather than wanting to change others. As a progressive very much in favour of a more inclusive and diverse society, I equally very much dislike that little voice within me that says "you're better you're not sexist/racist/etc" - that voice is hubris, it is pride, it is self-righteousness. And it is not helpful in making the world a more inclusive place. It also makes my actions and opinions on the matter all the less altruistic and noble.
Personally I very much side with the progressive movement on this issue. However I am not so blinded by my own bias as to excuse the intolerable and unhelpful behaviour of many on my side, nor turn a blind eye to the "self selection" and bias within the Neogaf groupthink. Anyone who debates that "SJWs" exist, or believes that everything done to support their agenda is positive, is blinded by their own bias.
TL
👍
Frankly, i never understood how jon on his own had fans, i saw his shit before game grumps and it was not funny, the banter on game grumps was funny because the dynamic between him and arin, and what do you know! when they replaced him the banter was still as funny!
Sure, his production values have increased since he went back to being solo, but, hey! There is a reason why the OT for game grumps in GAF never had his name on the title.
Sure, his production values have increased since he went back to being solo, but, hey! There is a reason why the OT for game grumps in GAF never had his name on the title.
Prithee Be Careful
Industry Professional
While I can't really say I agree with anything he's said in these Twitter messages, I can't really agree with calling him a 'sexist shithead' either.
If the last few years has taught us anything it's that throwing around terms like 'sexist', 'racist', 'misogynist' etc., while sometimes completely deserved and more often than not very cathartic, it doesn't push these people back or provoke them to rethink their position. In fact, it seems to galvanize them or even make them worse.
I wonder how America managed to swing from voting in thier first black president 9 years ago to voting in a someone who could hardly be more starkly antithetical. One things for sure, though, outright condemnation (however reasonably justfied) doesn't seem to be working.
If the last few years has taught us anything it's that throwing around terms like 'sexist', 'racist', 'misogynist' etc., while sometimes completely deserved and more often than not very cathartic, it doesn't push these people back or provoke them to rethink their position. In fact, it seems to galvanize them or even make them worse.
I wonder how America managed to swing from voting in thier first black president 9 years ago to voting in a someone who could hardly be more starkly antithetical. One things for sure, though, outright condemnation (however reasonably justfied) doesn't seem to be working.
Blam said:
Sure, feel free to judge a man by his actions -- just know he has already acted upon them.
Blam said:
As evident from the fact it just happened, yes.
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
Alex_Mexico
Member
Dont be a smartass. People can and will associate with whomever they want. I just dont have to like everyone whom they associate with.
Already Torn
Banned
Probably not anymore haha
EatinOlives
Member
He's gone full-blown "alt-right" with this shit. I can't support him or his videos anymore (though honestly I should've stopped earlier since the signs were clear long ago).
jack_package_200
Banned
From what I have seen on Matt and Liam's twitter accounts, they don't like Trump.
A Link to the Past
Banned
If Trump can be friends with Putin, Rolfe can be friends with AOS
I bet Woolie is full-on Trump right
cyborgnumberblue
Member
Thank you for that!
nkarafo
Member
I feel this way too. Usually try to avoid off-topic and stick to games.
TyphoonStruggle
Member
Ironically you're probably going to get banned (i.e. suppressed) for expressing that opinion, thus proving your point. I disagree with your opinion on this issue, but I agree that you should have the right to express it and engage in respectful discussion.
Neogaf is an interesting place - when discussion on the matter comes up many people on one side (and only one side) of the debate are banned thus creating a self selected population of people and group think that is heavily (and arguably non-representatively) skewed to the progressive side. Anyone who does have a dissenting opinion is either banned, or is so afraid of being banned/dogpiled on that they do not express it. In contrast those on the other side of the issue are allowed to act with impunity, slinging unfounded accusations at the other side, calling people "sexist shit heads" etc - arguably behaviour that should result in a ban.
I think there can be an argument made that there is an issue in the tact that some in the progressive movement have chosen to take in what is an admirable goal. Equality is certainly where the world should be IMO, and something we all aspire towards. That doesn't mean that any and all tactics towards that goal are positive and helpful though - hence the term "SJW".
For example, often instead of trying to change hearts and minds of those we disagree with some of us progressives simply attack them, and demonise them. Arguably this does more to hurt our cause, and society as a whole, as it results in an "us against them" mentality from both sides, galvanising both sides and ultimately resulting in narrow mindedness from both sides.
In many ways, it could be argued that those kind of tactics helped give the presidency to trump as he united those who have felt (sometimes correctly) to be under attack over the past 4-8 years by the left. He successfully unified the right mostly because of the tactics used by some within the left.
The problem is that on this issue it seems that battle lines have been drawn by both sides, when really those of us seeking to change the world should be reaching out to those we want to change. Alienating and attacking people people we want to change isn't going to change them. If one were to be cynical about it one would suspect that is because many within our movement enjoy the feeling of righteous superiority rather than wanting to change others. As a progressive very much in favour of a more inclusive and diverse society, I equally very much dislike that little voice within me that says "you're better you're not sexist/racist/etc" - that voice is hubris, it is pride, it is self-righteousness. And it is not helpful in making the world a more inclusive place. It also makes my actions and opinions on the matter all the less altruistic and noble.
Personally I very much side with the progressive movement on this issue. However I am not so blinded by my own bias as to excuse the intolerable and unhelpful behaviour of many on my side, nor turn a blind eye to the "self selection" and bias within the Neogaf groupthink. Anyone who debates that "SJWs" exist, or believes that everything done to support their agenda is positive, is blinded by their own bias.
TL
Not just progressive side. The HRC camp were pretty vitriol to the Bernie side. Some still are.
The other conservative forum(s) I visit, there's little banning going on. Even if I were to mock the Donald. I feel more comfortable posting political dissent there than I do here.
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
But Joeku we shouldn't call Jontron sexist or Trump will be re-elected.
Edit: It still works.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Oh come now, Hillary fans are not outside of "the progressive side," arguably being less progressive in certain areas does not at all constitute being outside of that bubble.
E_Darkness
Member
Someone hasn't seen their podcast titles.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
Lol, why did you include the word censor? You didn't even use it correctly. It's almost like you included it as a buzzword to validate your passive backseat modding post.
And there's nothing "childish" about examining the whole image an entertainer puts forth. It IS childish to stick your fingers in your ears, while being condescending to people who actual care about the topic
Yea, I'm happy the very few tubers I've supported over the years seem like pretty on the level guys
A lot of it had to do with political unsatisfaction with how things were and Trump exploited that and then used his own brand of racism to inject that into the conversation in a way that a lot of the GOP had only used in 'coded language' before that. The majority in this country are clearly progressive left leaning. Even Hillary could win and did win the popular vote. It was only due to a technicality that she lost.
There was a notable reaction against the left since 2008 in regards to right wing sentiment, but it was nothing that gained Trump the presidency in of itself. He won due to a combination of factors.
Alright, that's something that I feel I can look over but also keep an eye on. If I see controversy in the future, I'll be sure to keep it in mind. Thanks.
GustyGardens
Banned
I'm not too invested in JonTron, but I do subscribe to him and think some of his videos are pretty funny. I've noticed a pattern of jokes showing up in more of his videos that rub me the wrong way.
There are other YouTube channels that I follow that have been going down this same path. H3, who is pretty good friends with JonTron, has had a couple of videos that have been troubling. Likewise, The Bit Block has had some questionable views, but he's a troll, so it's hard to know when he's taking the piss.
There are other YouTube channels that I follow that have been going down this same path. H3, who is pretty good friends with JonTron, has had a couple of videos that have been troubling. Likewise, The Bit Block has had some questionable views, but he's a troll, so it's hard to know when he's taking the piss.
TL
When people are backed into a corner and their basic human rights are threatened, don't expect people to play nice.
A Link to the Past
Banned
TyphoonStruggle
Member
Nowhere did I state that the HRC camp were not progressive.
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