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[mothball]

Or this is a poor translation

It's amazing how freaked out people are getting over some poorly translated tweets.

Dr. Toto's credentials: "CEO of Tokyo-based game industry consultancy http://kantan-games.co.jp. Economics PhD. Ex-慶應義塾大学. 7-lingual."

The fuck are your credentials that give you the balls to say his translations are poor, besides being pro-bono Nintendo PR?

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

lol k pal.

Later GAF.

Like even if a 3DS successor exists it wouldn't get announced until well into the Switch's life when it presumably accumulates enough sales to stand on it's own. You're claiming that the Switch "would be the worse decision Nintendo's ever made." when it the console hasn't even been out yet let alone an entirely different console that wouldn't be out for another two years at least. You have nothing to base anything on besides your own kneejerk reaction.

 

[Pandy]

I don't get the skepticism. They're presumably going to release a smaller Switch at some point.

Very much this.

How much smaller, and what features it would be missing or add are more up for question, but given that Switch already uses mobile components and cartridge media there is absolutely no reason to suspect any future handheld device wouldn't be almost 100% compatible with Switch.

 

[Vermillion]

Switch was always a home console and a home console alone. Yeah, it's portable. And?

 

[Skittzo0413]

There is nothing poor about the translation. There's a bunch of people who are extrapolating some far reaching meanings from a perfectly fine translation. A translation to a logical and expected investor question with an utterly non-committal answer.

This is people finding controversy for the sake of controversy. There is nothing concrete or finite in this statement, its effectively people freaking out over the notion that some hypothetical successor to the 3DS is being hypothetically considered. The horror, how could a business ever hypothetically consider something or have multiple contingencies!

Reading this thread, you'd think Kimishima said, "Oh ya, we totally have a successor. Look forward to it!"

I guess I meant poor speculation/conclusions from the translation. The OP was updated with Mochizuki's response, and there are other responses throughout the thread showing that Toto's conclusion of "but he seems to actually mean an entirely new machine , not a 3DS update or refresh" is completely coming out of nowhere.

But yeah, agree with everything you said.

Dr. Toto's credentials: "CEO of Tokyo-based game industry consultancy http://kantan-games.co.jp. Economics PhD. Ex-慶應義塾大学. 7-lingual."

The fuck are your credentials that give you the balls to say his translations are poor, besides being pro-bono Nintendo PR?

I suppose poor translation isn't the right term, more like poor speculation based on a translation. Look at what Mochi said in response, it's right there in the OP. "but he seems to actually mean an entirely new machine , not a 3DS update or refresh" seems to be completely coming from nowhere, and that's what everyone is up in arms about.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

They should confirm something at E3. I'll wait until there's a more focused portable device. The current form factor doesn't interest me at all and feels almost like a burden but I feel forced because the games are there.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

So they say this, which implies they don't have confidence in the Switch. But then they say Switch is gonna sell Wii-numbers.


Nintendo is turning into the Donald Trump of video games...

 

[moltonasty]

A smaller Switch lite being sold without the dock for a cheaper price would be a smart move. A totally different hardware line with incompatible software would be a bad move.

 

[2+2=5]

"3ds successor" doesn't make me think of a handheld switch but of an entirely new handheld with its own games, and honestly i don't see that happening unless switch bombs.

 

[Rncewind]

I dont care what kimishima talks


point of the matter is they want console price range money for hardware and software @switch.

Even if they intend fully at this point that thing is a fully 3ds succesor because of some neogaf user say it, if this thing does not pull of the numbers that nintendo is comfortable with we gonna see a "4ds" (or projekt dolphin hd, like back in the days) and a lot of scorched earth

also a lot of crow would be eaten then


however what is certain is from what we know is that the "promised" device that would have full attention of nintendos first party (and third party) is not NX for at least 2019 because there are gonna still be exclusiv 3ds games and cross plattformgames, so even if this (ever) happen, its far in the future

 

[Sain Drevia]

It is clear to me that while the Switch is a decent enough stab at a quasi-mobile home console, it doesn't truly fit into my view of a portable/handheld. There is no way I'm lugging that thing around with me daily. I wouldn't ever play it on the bus or take it into the office to play during lunch (size and reportedly poor battery life are the sticking points).

These days, I'm much more into what Nintendo does with their handhelds (owned a 3DS XL and New 3DS XL - No Wii or Wii U), so honestly, I would like them to go down this route. For the sake of their developers, a Switch Mini with better battery life that can play all Switch games (albeit in the undocked fidelity) in holiday 2018 is probably the potential solution that I like best.

 

[KingSnake]

Or this is a poor translation

It's not a poor translation. Mochizuki understands it a bit differently in the context, but the translation is correct.

 

[Sectorseven]

Don't they still have Mario 64 DS on shelves? They probably want to continue selling 3DS software somehow.

 

[Interfectum]

With that mobile nvidia architecture they can make all kinds of hardware and not have to worry about software compatibility. I'm guessing there's going to be a whole assortment of shit in the "Switch family" including a pocketable portable machine.

 

[etking]

3DSXL sized, 100% compatible Switch mini. Else both systems would cannibalize themselves.

 

[Skittzo0413]

It's not a poor translation. Mochizuki understands it a bit differently in the context, but the translation is correct.

Yeah I corrected myself above, I meant poor speculation based on the translation.

This:

Just based on the article, Serkan Toto's translation is accurate. Kimishima was asked whether the Switch wouldn't render a successor to the 3DS meaningless, and he responded saying that the Switch would be bigger, heavier, and pricier than a theoretical 3DS successor, and they will keep considering it since there is a market base for it.

in no way suggests this:

3) He doesn't give more details, but he seems to actually mean an entirely new machine , not a 3DS update or refresh. /end

at least to me. It more suggests a Switch mini could be coming. Which I think we all expect anyway.

 

[asagami_]

Actually there is a trend Nintendo handheld game consoles tend to sell good until the first revision:

I have the data Nintendo sales until FY3/2017 "Apr.-Sept. '16", so we can look the numbers:

Total DS Sales: 154.02 million
DS: 18.79 million
DS Lite: 93.86 million
DSi: 28.44 million
DSi XL: 12.93 million

Total 3DS Sales: 61.57 million
3DS: 26.24 million
3DS XL: 19.61 million
2DS: 5.78 million
New 3DS: 2.11 million
New 3DS XL: 7.83 million

The DS Lite and 3DS were went put on sale after two years (more or less) after the first model. If a smaller (or bigger! but I hope not) revised Switch is going to be launched in 2019, well, the new model should be actually being in pre-production as we talk now.

 

[Cartho]

It would have to run Switch games, and games released for it would have to run on the original Switch. That was the entire point of Project NX in the first place - a unified architecture so their development teams could work on one family of systems.

If they truly did release a 3DS successor which had exclusive games which didn't apear on the Switch then... Well I don't know what to say - that would be 100% the most ridiculous, insane idea ever. It's so insane that it isn't really even worth thinking about - not even Nintendo are that moronic.

I feel like what he means is a successor to 3DS in terms of price point and portability. I could easily see a model of Switch which has the joycons permanently fixed to it, is smaller and lighter and does not come with a dock in the box. If they were REALLY SMART though, they would still keep the docking functionality. That way you could buy a dock later if you wanted to, or you could take it round to a friend's house who has one and plug it in.

Basically, if mainline Pokemon games don't release on Switch I will punch a hole in a wall out of sheer frustration at Nintendo's stubborn idiocy.

 

[shounenka]

It's not a poor translation. Mochizuki understands it a bit differently in the context, but the translation is correct.

Lol, the only reason this thread even exists is because of an exaggerated translation that implies that a 3DS successor is a real possibility at this stage despite the Switch being right on the horizon.

Mochizuki didn't understand anything "differently." He understood the nuance of the Japanese in its original context and called Toto out on it without coming off as a prick. The very non-confrontational way in which he brought it up was oh so Japanese in nature.

Whatever though; take this thread to another ten pages if you want.

 

[ErrorMacro]

If Nintendo actually does this, then they are stupid. The point of Switch is combining the handheld + console output into a single platform.

The much better course of action would be a handheld only, weaker, cheaper, and with better battery life version of the switch.

 

[KAL2006]

I think there are 2 ways to approach a Switch handheld

Sell Switch without Dock in Q3 2018 in time for a mainline Pokemon.

By Q3 2018 I'm sure Switch will receive a price drop anyway and a Switch without a dock will be even cheaper which is perfect for the handheld market.

Price would look like this
Switch with Dock - $250
Switch without Dock - $200

Then by 2019 they can release a full on Switch portable that's much smaller. However it won't be compatible with Motion games. To make it durable and smaller they can make it a clamshell design. Instead of a big 6.2" screen they can go with 5" screen. By 2019 I'm sure they can make the chip more efficient to improve battery life. They can price this at $170. This system still can be docked if you by a separate dock however you will also need to buy controller as the portable Switch doesn't have detachable JoyCons.


So in the end we will end up with 3 SKUs
Switch with Dock and JoyCons and Grip - $250
Switch with JoyCons but no Dock - $200
Switch Mini, controls not detachable- $170

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

"3ds successor" doesn't make me think of a handheld switch but of an entirely new handheld with its own games, and honestly i don't see that happening unless switch bombs.

This, exactly.

 

[Duxxy3]

This, exactly.

I don't see the Switch bombing, but I don't think it will make up for both console and handheld sales. I don't even think it will make up for handheld sales. Better than Wii U for sure.

 

[Labrynian Rebel]

I hope not. Keep milking the 3DS until the Switch takes off, but please, my number 1 hyped reason for the Switch is that I won't have to buy two Nintendo systems per generation.

 

[mariachi507]

It better be a switch lite/mini or else I am done with this company. The only reason I'm not worried about the Switch is because all of Nintendo's development teams are supposed to be consolidated

 

[Waji]

This is exactly why I'm avoiding Switch at launch. Combining handheld and console game development under one platform was the thing that got me most excited for the Switch. If Nintendo doesn't use a unified library between the Switch and their next handheld then I seriously wonder what the hell the point of this console was.

He's saying that just to make the investor not freak out thinking the Switch might sell bad and there's nothing planned. They're obviously at least 95% on the switch if not more.

 

[Malice215]

I can't see Nintendo doing something as silly as cannibalizing themselves by producing a separate handheld with a separate library that will compete with it's brand new handheld.

Whatever they do depends on how well the Switch does which we don't know yet. I'm sure Nintendo wants to maintain the market that the 3DS is occupying because they're not expecting kids to own a Switch with it's price and all the marketing they've been doing targeting adults.

I would expect a cheaper Switch to come at some point. Maybe one without the dock and grip for $200. Nintendo would be shooting themselves in the foot with another handheld separate from the Switch.

 

[mrklaw]

Smaller, non removable controllers, no dock or grip. But plays switch games and is compatible with normal joycons if you want to play games like 1-2-switch, and can be connected to TV with a cable or specific dock

Could easily hit sub-$200 just by reducing the bundled hardware clutter, even more so if they wait until 2018

 

[mrklaw]

"3ds successor" doesn't make me think of a handheld switch but of an entirely new handheld with its own games, and honestly i don't see that happening unless switch bombs.

That depends on properly understanding the context of the comment which is obfuscated by it being made in an investor statement, and further from being translated which can mask intent

3DS successor can just mean 'more handheld focus' as Nintendo are still pushing switch as a home console.

 

[calc84maniac]

"3ds successor" doesn't make me think of a handheld switch but of an entirely new handheld with its own games, and honestly i don't see that happening unless switch bombs.

It was the investors that put it in that terminology, and Kimishima agreed that the Switch's price and form factor don't put it squarely in that position, but they're considering what to do for it.

There's nothing here that conflicts with all of their previous statements that the NX would be a family of hardware with a single software library.

 

[NolbertoS]

Can Nintendo honestly start enforcing mandatory English speaking courses for all their employees. English is the language of business in most of the world, its pathetic really that none of the higher ups at Nintendo speaks a word of English, so they don't get mistranslated or miscommunicated. I like how Sony understands that concept and had their CEO talking both languages perfectly in press events.

 

[Scrawnton]

Can Nintendo honestly start enforcing mandatory English speaking courses for all their employees. English is the language of business in most of the world, its pathetic really that none of the higher ups at Nintendo speaks a word of English, so they don't get mistranslated or miscommunicated. I like how Sony understands that concept and had their CEO talking both languages perfectly in press events.

Nintendo publishes an English QA article shortly after the event. Just wait until then.

 

[Muzicfreq]

It was the investors that put it in that terminology, and Kimishima agreed that the Switch's price and form factor don't put it squarely in that position, but they're considering what to do for it.

There's nothing here that conflicts with all of their previous statements that the NX would be a family of hardware with a single software library.

Technically it already is a family of hardware. Controllers, dock, grips, ect.
Hardware doesn't have to mean electronics

 

[vkris]

So basically,

Is 3DS > Switch the largest generational graphics power leap?

No.

 

[Key_Notes88]

Backwards a** Nintendo

 

[jts]

In the words of the late Iwata:

"It requires a huge amount of effort to port Wii software to Nintendo 3DS, not only because of their resolutions but also the methods of software development being entirely different. The same thing happens when we try to port Nintendo 3DS software to Wii U.

"If the transition of software from platform to platform can be made simpler, this will help solve the problem of game shortages in the launch periods of new platforms."

Iwata continued: "To cite a specific case, Apple is able to release smart devices with various form factors one after another, because there is one way of programming adopted by all platforms. Apple has a common platform called iOS.

"Another example is Android. Though there are various models, Android does not face software shortages, because there is one common way of programming on the Android platform that works with various models.

"We are hoping to change and correct the situation in which we develop games for different platforms individually - and sometimes disappoint consumers with game shortages as we attempt to move from one platform to another - and we believe that we will be able to deliver tangible results in the future."

Future ”portable" if happening: shared architecture and library with the Switch.

Switch is the n3DS XL, Switch mini is the 2DS (with possible few extra differences in chipsets, maintaining compatibility, akin to iPad/iPhone).

Proceed to panic, though.

 

[Instro]

So in the end we will end up with 3 SKUs
Switch with Dock and JoyCons and Grip - $250
Switch with JoyCons but no Dock - $200
Switch Mini, controls not detachable- $170

I could see something like happening, although I feel like if they figure out a way for the controls to be the same joycons it would be a smart move. If a supposed Switch mini ended up being a clamshell design they might be able to get it to work.

 

[xochipiltontli]

It is clear to me that while the Switch is a decent enough stab at a quasi-mobile home console, it doesn't truly fit into my view of a portable/handheld. There is no way I'm lugging that thing around with me daily. I wouldn't ever play it on the bus or take it into the office to play during lunch (size and reportedly poor battery life are the sticking points).

These days, I'm much more into what Nintendo does with their handhelds (owned a 3DS XL and New 3DS XL - No Wii or Wii U), so honestly, I would like them to go down this route. For the sake of their developers, a Switch Mini with better battery life that can play all Switch games (albeit in the undocked fidelity) in holiday 2018 is probably the potential solution that I like best.

I think that holiday 2018 is when they'll actually be able to pick up steam with a Switch mini. I preordered a Switch but as far as I'm concerned it's not really ready for the mainstream and it won't be until it manages to become cheap enough and small enough to be the 3DS's successor.

In other words, I don't think Nintendo see the Switch in its current form as the product that will sell Wii levels because they're kind of still investing in building the platform at the moment so that they can have a wide breadth of quality, desirable titles that work on this architecture as it gets cheaper to produce. They can then flood the market with a variety of form factors at competitive prices that people will actually buy. This is why they're not selling the system at a loss, to minimize its damage to their profits (unlike the Wii U and the 3DS in its early years) during this investment process, and the money made from those who still buy the 3DS and its software or from those who buy the (expensive) Switch and its (expensive) accessories in its current form will help build the platform further.

At least, I hope this is the case and that it's not Nintendo just being incompetent, but seeing as this was planned out by Iwata before he died I think its safe to assume that any 3DS successor we see will pretty much just be a Switch mini and that the platform as a whole will have a 3DS style relaunch next year.

So in the end we will end up with 3 SKUs
Switch with Dock and JoyCons and Grip - $250
Switch with JoyCons but no Dock - $200
Switch Mini, controls not detachable- $170

I think down the line we could see something like:

Switch with Joy-Cons, a 1080p screen and power that runs in docked mode at all times, and a Google VR/Daydream like headset, No Dock - $299
Switch with Joy-Cons, Dock, and a Grip - $250
Switch Mini with controls not detachable - $200
Switch TV box with Pro Controller - $150

 

[Jubenhimer]

What, were you expecting him to say something else? This is once again more PR speak as to not piss off 3DS owners, and to have something to fall back on in case the Switch bombs. If there's going to be any 3DS successor, it'll be some form of Switch Mini. Otherwise, Nintendo Switch is Nintendo's only platform going forward.

 

[vkris]

What, were you expecting him to say something else? This is once again more PR speak as to not piss off 3DS owners, and to have something to fall back on in case the Switch bombs. If there's going to be any 3DS successor, it'll be some form of Switch Mini. Otherwise, Nintendo Switch is Nintendo's only platform going forward.

This guy knows people.

 

[WadeitOut]

Dr. Toto's credentials: "CEO of Tokyo-based game industry consultancy http://kantan-games.co.jp. Economics PhD. Ex-慶應義塾大学. 7-lingual."

The fuck are your credentials that give you the balls to say his translations are poor, besides being pro-bono Nintendo PR?

The issue might not be the actual translation, but how the translation can read in English. English is a screwed up language and phrases can have multiple meanings.

 

[MegaManTrigger]

In the words of the late Iwata:

Future “portable” if happening: shared architecture and library with the Switch.

Switch is the n3DS XL, Switch mini is the 2DS (with possible few extra differences in chipsets, maintaining compatibility, akin to iPad/iPhone).

[image]

Proceed to panic, though.

Except there's a fundamental difference. You're putting a lot of emphasis on the hardware, when Iwata's words were about how iOS and Android solved the problem of having software droughts because it's easy to work with just one operating system that's used in a plethora of machines, than it is to work with a plethora of operating systems and languages with each individual machine. It's all about efficiency spread out to each hardware.

Furthermore, people like you in this thread have been using the apple example and completely misunderstanding why Apple and Android are so successful with it. Primarily because they can create tons of hardware with differing purposes (Phones, Tablets, iPods, etc) while at the same time making sure that a good amount of software can be shared within the same hardware ecosystem.

So when people bring up Apple's iPad and iPhones, I really have to ask, why do you think the Apple example applies when the Switch mini (assume its either handheld or console form factor), and the current Switch we know fulfill no different needs? They're both designed solely to play video games and don't have niches to the extent that Phones and Tablets have.

 

[Coffee Dog]

I hope console users don't mind paying a premium to run games that will play on my Switch Lite, I guess.

 

[calc84maniac]

Except there's a fundamental difference. You're putting a lot of emphasis on the hardware, when Iwata's words were about how iOS and Android solved the problem of having software droughts because it's easy to work with just one operating system that's used in a plethora of machines, than it is to work with a plethora of operating systems and languages with each individual machine. It's all about efficiency spread out to each hardware.

Furthermore, people like you in this thread have been using the apple example and completely misunderstanding why Apple and Android are so successful with it. Primarily because they can create tons of hardware with differing purposes (Phones, Tablets, iPods, etc) while at the same time making sure that a good amount of software can be shared within the same hardware ecosystem.

So when people bring up Apple's iPad and iPhones, I really have to ask, why do you think the Apple example applies when the Switch mini (assume its either handheld or console form factor), and the current Switch we know fulfill no different needs? They're both designed solely to play video games and don't have niches to the extent that Phones and Tablets have.

Kimishima says the Switch is too big and pricy for the 3DS market. How is a fully handheld form factor not simply aiming at that different niche, that wants a pocketable device and doesn't need detachable controls and all the other bells and whistles?

 

[MegaManTrigger]

Kimishima says the Switch is too big and pricy for the 3DS market. How is a fully handheld form factor not simply aiming at that different niche, that wants a pocketable device and doesn't need detachable controls and all the other bells and whistles?

Because there's nothing inherently different from a Switch Mini to the original Switch if they're going to play the same exact software. If anything, contradicts the whole point of the device. At least with the iPad, iPhone, etc., they all fulfill different needs. Person A could choose the iPhone simply because he/she needs a phone for business/everyday needs, Person B could choose the iPad because he/she needs a tablet for something closer to computer while still be portable enough to take to school. That's why software being shared within the same ecosystem is so important, because Person A and B may fall under differing demographics as far as technology needs are concerned, but they will both have the same access to the software that they are interested in.

Doing multiple form factors under the Switch (at least with the way people currently conceptualize it) doesn't lead to the same result seen with the Apple and Android techs. Primarily because at the end of the day, Nintendo is still developing a video game console, not a bunch of different pieces of technology aimed at having different needs, that was my whole point. Furthermore, You risk fracturing the userbase based on the premise that undermines the marketing that the Switch had, which was to be a machine where you could play console-level games either on the go or at home. So instead of presenting hybrid as an option to people, you split your userbase down to those who are okay with hybrid, those who prefer handheld only, and/or those who prefer home console gaming only. The closest example I can think of is the PS Vita and PSTV where Sony originally started with a handheld and opted to bring a TV version of the Vita, only to pitiful sales. Now you can argue that it's mostly the lukewarm reception of the Vita, but there were a lot of fundamental problems, the most relevant one being that of the things it does, other products do those things better.

 

[GabeTheGrouch76]

Honestly, I'm not too surprised by Kimishima and Aonuma's comments about a 3DS successor being on the table. The Switch never struck me as something that would fit squarely in the dedicated handheld market like Nintendo's preceding handhelds do; and I think this also applies for their line of dedicated consoles. The device has a fair amount of compromises in both fields for it to be realized as the "hybrid" format it exists as.

Kimishima is even on record for saying the Switch, when it was known as the NX, isn't a traditional successor to the 3DS or Wii U nearly a year ago:

The NX is neither the successor to the Wii U nor to the 3DS. It's a new way of playing games, which I think will have a larger impact than the Wii U, but I don't feel it's a pure replacement for the Wii U.

...though a fair amount of people blew off Kimishima's comments as "lol third pillar" talk. But it's worth noting that Iwata also shared similar remarks about the Switch prior to his passing:

If you only expand upon existing hardware, it's dull. In some shape or form, we're always thinking about how we want to surprise players as well as our desire to change each person's video gaming life.

My guess is that depending on how the Switch pans out, it could be a jumping point towards having "traditional" console and handhelds that can play the same games, as some of the early NX rumors were suggesting when Nintendo expressed interest in having a family of systems and pointing to iOS / Android as inspiration. (Which honestly I think they should had done in the first place, either in addition to, or instead of, the console/handheld hybrid approach they are attempting with the Switch.) Though I'm admittedly struggling to see a new "traditional" Nintendo handheld being able to play Switch games without making compromises in size format, game performance, battery life, and pricing; among other factors.

 

[th4tguy]

Does no one remember the third pillar talk from Nintendo? GBA successor still in the works. DS is it's own thing. ETC ETC....

 

[brad-t]

So when people bring up Apple's iPad and iPhones, I really have to ask, why do you think the Apple example applies when the Switch mini (assume its either handheld or console form factor), and the current Switch we know fulfill no different needs? They're both designed solely to play video games and don't have niches to the extent that Phones and Tablets have.

Consider it more like the iPhone 7 Plus versus the iPhone SE than a phone versus a tablet.

 

[prag16]

It's just gonna be a Switch mini. It'll be called Switch mini if the Switch is reasonably successful. If the Switch is a total abject failure, it'll be essentially the same thing, but they'll talk it up purely as a 3DS successor.

This is the same "third pillar" bullshit we heard with the DS. Nothing to see here.

 

[b00_thegh0st]

Does no one remember the third pillar talk from Nintendo? GBA successor still in the works. DS is it's own thing. ETC ETC....

Yeah I remember playing GBA games on my og DS too (FF remakes mainly). That smoothed the transition greatly and helped the DS a lot in its 1st year. Switch launch doesn't compare to DS launch.