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Game of Thrones is bad. Like, really bad. Here's why. (Spoilers)
- Thread starter pashmilla
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Cesare Borgia
Banned
Agreed. It's not homophobic, but it kinda follows the pattern that they use for everything. His sexuality is little more than another excuse/tool to add some more nudity/sex. I get why a minor character didn't receive much attention, although there were book plots that could have worked here (Cersei's concern/anger over Tommen and Loras becoming close friends, Cersei manipulating him into leading the Dragonstone campaign) and been more interesting than what the show did.
Actually it's been rumored that the book hints the Hound is still alive (it was a very subtle hint with one vague comment from a character). We don't know yet cause the books haven't been finished and the last GoT season was all past the finished books. Same thing with Jon Snow being alive (he left it in a way that almost said that he wAnted you to think he was dead).
Oh I agree. They don't actually delve into any of it at this point and it does come across as exploitation. The books are like that too though to some extent.
That said, it is worse in the TV series.
Yeah they watered down pretty much every character, and yeah the pacing can be absurd at times, and yeah it often feels like the scripts were written by an 8 year old but... it can still be a pretty entertaining show in spite of all of that.
Season 5 was complete trash though. Impossible to defend that one.
Season 5 was complete trash though. Impossible to defend that one.
I have never been one to care if a show/movie matches the book. If they want to complete re-characterize someone, fine, I don't care. Just make them into another character that is still a good character. GoT accomplishes that about half the time, which is honestly a decent rate, but the way those characters come together is awful, which means a the more it builds upon itself the worse it gets.
Not as bad as Marvel or something like that, but it's plenty to distract from enjoying the fantasy elements.
Not as bad as Marvel or something like that, but it's plenty to distract from enjoying the fantasy elements.
Season 5 really was shit. If you ever want an example of why the Emmys don't matter, look at the awards Season 5 got.
Never understand people that can't get people like different things.
Yeah the lack of realism really gets to me. I mean, the dragons, zombies, magic, etc don't bother me so much but the inaccurate results of sword wounds just totally takes me right out of the story.
Why would I face something that isn't true at all?
The show is only doing what the book actually tries at one point too. The book has one point where she is talking to Sansa that it very much tries to show that Cersai does this stuff because she is very protective of her kids and as a woman in this world that was how she could get stuff done. I remember hating her to that point but more understanding her after that (she is still evil but you can understand how she got there). The show seems to be wanting to convey that. They might feel they can't do it as well as a book of they have her so hatable at first. But Cersai even in the book is shown to be pitiable.
There are other gay characters in the Game of Thrones show whose defining trait wasn't their homesexuality. That was mainly a Loras thing.
Monocle
Member
Basically this. I was ready to give up on the show after Season 5 but it got a second wind in a big way.
I agree with the part about Loras though. His characterization was horseshit compared to the books. Gay man who has a very interesting backstory, family, skillset, occupation, blah blah is GAY and spends most of his screen time doing stereotypical things, then gets tortured by religious nutjobs and dies broken. Great. Bloody splendid.
Oh, and also, it was messed up how Sansa's transition from victim to power player was derailed by gratuitous rape and another period of hellish abuse, which was totally superfluous given her experiences at King's Landing.
Imp the Dimp
Member
Hm I guess I can't argue with the inconsistencies you mentioned but I still like the show.
Skellig Gra
Member
I'm with you OP, I gave up on a show a long time ago.
Atraveller
Banned
OP deserves more than quick dismissals and gif replies. Even disregarding the books, several character arcs in the show are problematic at best.
Coin Return
Loose Slot
Stop sucking so much, Game of Thrones! Your dozens of Emmy wins and massive fanbase are totally wrong!
OP would be getting less of that if her title wasnt so clickbaity.
If I made a thread entitled "The Sopranos is dogshit. Here's my detailed analysis why", people are going to be primed to argue and dismiss before they have even read my points.
Being a bi guy, there are some bi/gay men like that in real life. Not all bi/gay characters have been the same on the show. I do wish they stopped dying though.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
I mean you're wrong, but continue to live in that fantasy world anyway.
dead souls
Member
OP must be George R.R. Martin.
Lol. Neither of those are indicators of quality.
Theon's sister (Yara?) Being gay/bi was also handled pretty matter of factly, several years after her introduction.
Yeah. Renly and Oberyn come to mind.
Resident4t.
Member
No, it's not bad. It's an entertaining soap opera with a lot of violence and good production values.
BlisterBrown
Neo Member
I think Tyrion is one of the best characters on television. Honestly, I'd probably like him less if he mused about raping his sister all the time. Why does that difference bother you OP? What about the lack of sister rape (and other rape) makes Tyrion a worse character?
You can't complain about the "shock value" of the TV series and then complain that Tyrion dosent rape enough.
You can't complain about the "shock value" of the TV series and then complain that Tyrion dosent rape enough.
Arthr2ShdsJcksn
Banned
I totally agree with the OP, but I still like the show. For the medium of television, it is still quite an achievement, even if it has to simplify its characters into binary/uninteresting messes.
Instead of just writing "no,"
I had just re-watched the series over the holidays, when HBO decided to rerun every episode over the course of the week. And I was surprised at how good the show was at sticking to its characters, themes, and politics. Subsequent viewings have revealed a lot of how far ahead they were thinking and how well it holds up.
The major constraint the show has is that it has an average of, what, 10 episodes in a season to try and capture the plot and world building of an entire book (if not a plot spanning multiple books). Filming even one chapter of a book is a much more expensive/complicated ordeal than writing it.
Any kind of adaptation has to jettison factors of the source material and do its own thing while also providing some kind of end result. The good news is people don't like it because its cool or popular, they like it because its good and worth thinking about. The casting is great, the story is mostly great (there are some dumb missteps and oversimplifications to accelerate the plot, especially in later seasons), and the people making it generally care about the craft of pulling it off. The characters are true to themselves (for the most part) even if they're not always the same as they are in the books.
I had just re-watched the series over the holidays, when HBO decided to rerun every episode over the course of the week. And I was surprised at how good the show was at sticking to its characters, themes, and politics. Subsequent viewings have revealed a lot of how far ahead they were thinking and how well it holds up.
The major constraint the show has is that it has an average of, what, 10 episodes in a season to try and capture the plot and world building of an entire book (if not a plot spanning multiple books). Filming even one chapter of a book is a much more expensive/complicated ordeal than writing it.
Any kind of adaptation has to jettison factors of the source material and do its own thing while also providing some kind of end result. The good news is people don't like it because its cool or popular, they like it because its good and worth thinking about. The casting is great, the story is mostly great (there are some dumb missteps and oversimplifications to accelerate the plot, especially in later seasons), and the people making it generally care about the craft of pulling it off. The characters are true to themselves (for the most part) even if they're not always the same as they are in the books.
Pashmilla is totally correct. I really like HBO's Game of Thrones, but they don't do justice to the source material at all. Trimming down plotlines for easy viewership is understandable, but D&D have totally distorted Martin's more complex characters to make them more attractive to casual audiences.
I'm not complaining specifically that Tyrion doesn't rape enough, I'm complaining that the show completely whitewashes him and removes all of his moral ambiguity.
Monocle
Member
Didn't Season 5 win several Emmys in spite of its major drop in quality compared to the other seasons, while brilliant shows like Hannibal carried on unrecognized?
Yeah, that particular popularity contest doesn't tell you much about a show's quality.
Can't really argue. The show has its moments, and seasons 1 and 6 are great, but the source material is significantly better in the ways that matter most. Namely the nuanced characterization and complex narrative threads.
The example I often think of is Tyrion's Chain. That subplot was so satisfying in the book. And there's barely a trace of it in the show, besides the ultimate result.
"Bad pussy" won an Emmy for best writing. Let that sink in...
Fair enough. The heavy topics are some of the big things that intriqued me in this show, while they don't always hit the mark handling them. Ofcourse the heavy topics are something that can be traced back to the source material, which I haven't read. I might like Tyrion more if he was more like he has been described being in the books based on this thread. Since my own favorites of the show aren't the clear "good guys". But people like Tywin and Hound (except for Ned, can't be a better man than him).
And actually I think I wouldn't personally mind if more time were spent on traveling to show the size of the world and letting the characters just interact with each other. When and if the writing would be good. Simple dialogue scenes have been mostly my favorites, not the plot twists and big set piece battles. For example the scenes with Tywin and Arya were excellent in my opinion, Charles Dance is such a joy to watch and the scenes were very intense. But the show already gets so much complaints for being "boring", "nothing happens", "it drags" and so on. So I understand why they are skipping things and playing with time a bit. It's supposed to be entertaining for masses too, to get viewers so the series can continue. Just being a great show isn't enough to keep TV series going unfortunately.
But overall I think that Game of Thrones definitely ranks among the better TV shows. If GOT is considered bad, what are the shows like MacGyver reboot, Supernatural, Scorpion and all the CSI iterations? Though just because something is worse, doesn't free GOT from criticism. And I'm happy to read some of it in this thread. But still, that doesn't include the OP.
dead souls
Member
To be fair, how can the writing on Hannibal (or any other show for that matter) compete with the Emmy award winning "Bad pussy" line?
Writing Emmys are for single episodes. Did that episode win?
Yup.
RareFantasy64
Member
OP, Jaime burning the letter at the end of AFFC is one of my favorite parts of the books and I was mad about what they did with Jaime. I feel by the end of season 6, they are steering him back into being book-Jaime
BlisterBrown
Neo Member
Disagree. At the end of season 6 he's arguing that slaves should be free over a "7 year period" instead of instantly. Even if he had good reasons for it, isn't that morally wrong?
Weird.
Atraveller
Banned
Instead of "lel book purist", maybe show only watchers could examine the show arcs that abandoned development to double down on the old shit. Of course the books got brought up as a point of reference.
Thread whines don't right subjective title.
Coin Return
Loose Slot
Generally speaking, If something is really popular and receives recognition and awards year after year, chances are it doesn't suck.
I think some of you are still bitter about The Wire not winning anything.
Well early Supernatural is good.
I would say Season 6 was definitely among the better TV shows. I can't say that about Season 5 though.
Okay, only casually watched something when it's been on TV here. Maybe it's been bad seasons what I've seen. But it's a show that doesn't interest me, so I haven't given it a proper chance. But it didn't seem to be on par with stuff that HBO produces.
Girl who read the books is upset that the screen adaptation is a problematic turd.
tearsintherain
Member
Bad is relative. Game of Thrones is not something people 300 years from now are still going to be talking about, like Shakespeare or Mark Twain. Book or TV form. The books are really bad after book 3, I'd argue the TV show really saves the book series at this point.
On the other side of the scale, I'd much rather enjoy an hour or two a week of watching dragons and sword fights and naked women than five minutes of The Walking Dead, the Kardassians, Jersey Shore, etc.
I've seen much, much, much worse TV and I'd put GOT easily in the top 25 of TV shows, but not the top 10.
On the other side of the scale, I'd much rather enjoy an hour or two a week of watching dragons and sword fights and naked women than five minutes of The Walking Dead, the Kardassians, Jersey Shore, etc.
I've seen much, much, much worse TV and I'd put GOT easily in the top 25 of TV shows, but not the top 10.
Season 1-5 is really good, especially 3-5. Better-than-Buffy tier. 6-(whatever it's up to) isn't anywhere near that level as a whole.
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