Support NeoGAF

[TalentBurke]

To the people with the posts comparing the launch games with the PS4 and Xbox one's even if you think those systems had bad launch games. That doesn't mean it's okay for the switch to have bad launch games as well.

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

And not having big 3rd party games at launch really hurts too. I hope the Switch succeeds because the concept is great but the rushed launch makes me think Nintendo is repeating the same mistakes.
Maybe we will get Switch Ambassador stuff later on though.

I don't get Nintendo's arrogance, they act like the Wii U never happened and people are still going crazy of the Wii. Casual consumers have no loyalty to the Nintendo brand name like the hardcore crowd does. If it was $200 I would've bought it on impulse, I'm glad it's $300 so I'm not even close to being tempted to get this

Nintendo can't carry a console with just first party titles, this has been proven time and time again (again, Wii was a flash in the pan)

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

I stopped reading at 'splaining.

I'm sure I actually would have agreed with it, just write pwopa next time.

 

[RichiRamjag]

To the people with the posts comparing the launch games with the PS4 and Xbox one's even if you think those systems had bad launch games. That doesn't mean it's okay for the switch to have bad launch games as well.

Should have bumped up mario kart at least. It's nearly two months for the wait.

 

[Waji]

 

[TalentBurke]

As someone who owns both a PS4 and a gaming PC, I only have 3 of the launch PS4/X1 games. It's not about the quantity, its about the quality, but what's high quality for me doesn't have to mean high quality for you.

Not everyone plays Zelda, and for the people who do play Zelda. After you beat Zelda then what? Will your switch just sit there and wait for the next "quality" game? Variety is a good thing.

 

[SkeptiMism]

Exclusive games - ARMS, looks like a tech demo. 1, 2 Switch, almost certainly was a tech demo.

I don't care to argue much at the moment and to be honest, I don't even particularly disagree with most of your points that much, but this one is just silly. The game looks like a proper fighting game with a lot of depth in it. Have you watched any videos of it apart from the announcement one?

Buy some shares of Nintendo if you're going to be this defensive over a company's business practices.

And don't do this. It's fine to question someone like The Moon because that person's reply really was just pure snark, but the post you quoted was just usual discussion.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

As someone who owns both a PS4 and a gaming PC, I only have 3 of the launch PS4/X1 games. It's not about the quantity, its about the quality, but what's high quality for me doesn't have to mean high quality for you.

Where did I assert anything about the quality of the games, or where did I say that people can't prefer one launch lineup over the other?

 

[jdmonmou]

I think the Wii U was in a better position than the Switch was before launch. Prospective buyers had the hope of a strong party lineup and the Wii U launched with things like Netflix and an Internet Browser. On the other hand, the Switch is launching after the failure of the Wii U and its not apparent that Nintendo is going to correct the big problems (3rd party support, online, etc.) with the Switch. The launch seems pretty bare bones as well.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

Start-up that old narrative again. Sure going to help matters a lot!

Tell us specifically what is wrong with this message though. You don't think there's a lack of details considering the console is out in a couple of weeks?

PS4 and Xbox One had some variety but the launch was not exactly great for either systems, neither had a game on the caliber of Breath of the Wild. Switch seems like it will be worth it from day 1.

The difference is that with the PS4 and Xbone is that we knew decent third party support would always be there. There's absolutely no guarantee of that with a Nintendo console, and nothing they've shown so far has made a proper effort to address that concern.

 

[jax]

Is this trumps doing too? Another terrible work of "journalism " from Polygon.

 

[mindsale]

I don't care to argue much at the moment and to be honest, I don't even particularly disagree with most of your points that much, but this one is just silly. The game looks like a proper fighting game with a lot of depth in it. Have you watched any videos of it apart from the announcement one?



And don't do this. It's fine to question someone like The Moon because that person's reply really was just pure snark, but the post you quoted was just usual discussion.

I have watched quite a bit of footage. The aesthetic seems placeholder and the names of the characters Didn't do it for me. Master Mummy, Spring Man, just stretching a gimmick too thin (pun unintended). Not my cup of tea, but fine, I'll say it's a real game. Strike that from my list of grievances.

The post to which I recommended stock was not civil. It was dismissive, addressed no points I'd raised, just mocked them, and then corrected my Latin (which was actually helpful though it meant to condescend and discredit my argument, without, y'know, addressing anything).

 

[Zombie James]

Look, I preordered the Switch. In fact, I preordered it from four different retailers (such is my confidence that Nintendo is capable of properly predicting and, in turn, satisfying retail demand). I’d very much love to be proven wrong here. Maybe, in some corporate boardroom in Kyoto, a group of very smart people decided that it was a wise strategy to continue to leave would-be purchasers of this new hardware in the dark regarding one of the company’s most visible and acknowledged weaknesses.

Sounds like the author is part of the problem. You worry about being left in the dark, about not having enough information about what the system does, about Nintendo's history, and you pre-order it anyways? Four times?

Yeah, that'll teach Nintendo. Good job.

 

[Mathematics]

So it's a great only platform for poor people?

Having a job limits the time for hobbies. And when you think about career advancement that limits it further. Once you start paying bills you don't get to buy every game that comes to existence.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Is this trumps doing too? Another terrible work of "journalism " from Polygon.

It's a perfectly reasonable opinion piece.

 

[plagiarize]

I'd say owning a Wii U is something that makes you less likely to buy a Switch at launch, and the early line up obviously has a lot to do with that. But fortunately that isn't a large group of people... and I can't imagine many Wii U owners failing to convert over for either Splatoon 2 or Mario.

I think that's a very separate conversation to how appealing the system will be to people that didn't buy a Wii U. Like, will it appeal to the millions that bought a Wii but not a Wii U? Or will it appeal to the millions that didn't buy a Wii or Wii U but owned other consoles?

I can't imagine the Switch failing to convert Wii U owners. Basically, a Wii U owner is going to buy the next Nintendo console at some point, just to play Nintendo games, even if there isn't any big AAA Nintendo exclusives for a few months and they don't get one in two weeks as a result.

But outside of that, Nintendo still have a lot of work to do to convince everyone else. Some of that they're doing well at, some they've got to do better at.

If third party support doesn't reach a higher level than what's been announced for the first year, I don't think the Switch is going to reach many console gamers that skipped the Wii.

And I'd love it to get decent third party support, but given past results there, I'm going to believe it when I see it.

I'm sure that I'll be happy with it either way, as I was with the Wii U.

 

[onemanasylum]

To the people with the posts comparing the launch games with the PS4 and Xbox one's even if you think those systems had bad launch games. That doesn't mean it's okay for the switch to have bad launch games as well.

Those people are delusional anyway, X1, and PS4 had all big third parties and indies on board which meant steady releases, Nintendo has nothing as big as BF4 at launch. PS4 had 24 games for launch I believe.

 

[GinoFelino]

Pretty sure it is.

I think hybrid is the right idea, for maximal shared library and clearness of shared library. It is the right idea for trying to maintain the Japanese market at heights greater than, say, 11-12 million Wii U + PS4 might go on to sell there in total. It is the right idea for trying to leverage Nintendo's successful system, 3DS, against the market where the West is primarily situated, i.e. the home console market.

Hybrid, of course, comes with costs and things to balance, and frankly, I think Nintendo has actually done pretty well with that, but that doesn't erase that there are sacrifices to power, to battery life, etc.

But it is a quirky product in this regard. It also flies in the face of what a lot of people want, namely, a clone machine that plays Nintendo games in PS4(+) graphics; Japanese games without the option of a handheld, so completely beholden to the west, niche Japanese audiences, or gone mobile; etc.

For me, Nintendo trying to find another way to move consoles forward is immensely appealing. I want a strong alternative to the western corebox, and the Switch is a unique opportunity for that, with the ability to support Japanese home console efforts in a portable form factor and the potential to reunite what remains of the DS/PSP and PS3 software streams. So I want it to succeed as the vision it presents and I think it has turned out a competent product for the most part.

For others, it induces the "not this again, just give up already. You're going to flop anyway. And if you don't, you're going to disrupt the market in ways contrary to my interests" response. So it seems unclear whether the product is at all competent and whether there is even any desire for it to succeed.

...

As to network abilities, yes, I think there is cause for concern. I think there being no streetpass is a mistake. I think the mobile app approach comes across as convoluted and less-than-ideal; I can only understand it as a sacrifice providing for a less-energy demanding OS. No commitments to what the VC is going to be like is troubling. Etc.

Well said.

At this point, I feel both sides have made their pros and cons perfectly (and extensively) clear. Only time will tell if Nintendo has done the right thing (for the market) with Switch.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

Nintendo can't carry a console with just first party titles, this has been proven time and time again (again, Wii was a flash in the pan)

And Wii wasn't carried by first party titles alone either.

 

[Meesh]

2 weeks to launch, yikes

I predict mad panic and civil unrest in the streets during launch despite some of the issues Nintendo might have... anecdotally some of the guys at work are talking about getting one and Zelda. These are just people I didn't think would be interested in Nintendo....

 

[darkazcura]

Nah man, the PS4/X1 launch lineup had no games!

Resogun is the only game I was interested in on both those XB1 and PS4 lists. Those lists have quantity, but it just looks so unappealing to me. Those look like utterly dreadful launches to me personally, and it's the reason I waited a year+ to get either console. I can understand it may look appealing to a bunch of people, but there are lots of people with different taste, and that Switch list caters to my taste far more even if it is half the size.

I can think of at least 7-9 games I'm going to want on the Switch within the first 7-9 months, but with the PS4 and One I was really digging to find something appealing before I picked up the consoles.

 

[bachikarn]

Nintendo has done a crazy better job with the Switch than the Wii U. The Wii U was a jumbled mess that had no real market. It did a miserable job communicating what was special about it.

Now the Switch still has many problems with it, but it has done a much better job than the Wii U in a lot of ways.

 

[Jimmyfenix]

Why are you always so defensive when Nintendo is criticised or questioned by either a user on here or by the press?

my exact thoughts.

 

[Manmademan]

And Wii wasn't carried by first party titles alone either.

the Wii was ABSOLUTELY a first party machine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Wii_video_games

nothing on that system had any traction that wasn't made by nintendo outside of "Let's Dance."

 

[Deleted member 752119]

The difference is that with the PS4 and Xbone is that we knew decent third party support would always be there. There's absolutely no guarantee of that with a Nintendo console, and nothing they've shown so far has made a proper effort to address that concern.

While true, one can be pretty sure that this will be well supported by Nintendo and Japanese third parties (the 3DS/Vita devs especially). I'm waiting and seeing if there's enough there for more, but for those who love those games it's a pretty safe bet.

Western third party support? That's not coming in any meaninful way. A few token ports that will be nice for people who only own Nintendo or want the games portably. Nintendo has themselves said they can't compete with Sony/MS for core gamers and just aren't going to try.

It's a box for Nintendo games and some niche Japanese stuff, that will benefit from having all those in one box instead of split across console/portable. Anyone that's not enough or is simply not int he market they're chasing, and only time will tell how big that market is for Nintendo.

 

[Teletraan1]

Funny seeing the usual Nintendo diehards dismiss this. Of course a lack of information doesn't matter to you. You were going to buy the thing even if they only gave you a name and when to buy. People a little less invested in Nintendo might want some more information.

 

[me0wish]

Not everyone plays Zelda, and for the people who do play Zelda. After you beat Zelda then what? Will your switch just sit there and wait for the next "quality" game? Variety is a good thing.

Agreed, but for me personally, and I know that I'm not the majority, I am perfectly happy with 12S and Zelda for launch, and Bomber man looks promising. Add the rest of March games to the list I'm more happy with what the Switch has to offer.

Where did I assert anything about the quality of the games, or where did I say that people can't prefer one launch lineup over the other?

Your wording seemed like that was the case, so I was just stating that I'm perfectly happy with what the Switch can offer on launch and through March. I apologize if I misunderstood you.

 

[TheMoon]

I almost want to apologize for being that aggressive, because that's not how I usually am. But nope... Your aggressive post deserves a reply of equal aggressiveness

I'm allergic to this defense force BS. If you bring that up, that's how the convo is gonna go.

You made a one sentence post that basically said Nintendo can't be criticized. You have a Kirby avi and we can all see your post history. Try reading the article and arguing logical points instead of shitposting if you don't want to get called out.

That's just my advice.

Nothing in that post said they can't be criticized. I have a whole laundry list of criticisms of my own for them. Thanks for making me aware that having a Kirby avatar immediately marks me as a potential defense force member/captain. I re-read my post history's first page just for fun to see what kind of hints there are and honestly don't find anything unless "talking about nintendo" and "not criticizing them" is automatically is the min req for defense forceness.

 

[onemanasylum]

Polygon are totally right here, but I am getting one for Zelda, I can't help myself.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

I mean you could always wait to get one.

 

[jax]

It's a perfectly reasonable opinion piece.

No it isn't. It's clickbait garbage. 9/10 of the article is bitching about the lack of an already announced online service, and the rest of the points can easily be proven wrong with 5 seconds of research. They "didn't know" you could restore your Wii U/3DS games without a "call to Nintendo". These clowns are literally making points on assumptions and bullshit.

I have no idea if the Switch, another portable Nintendo system, will remedy it. A blurry piece of fine print spotted in a surreptitiously captured early unboxing (thanks, leaky retail channel!) indicates the Switch is finally correcting this massive, embarrassing issue ... but Nintendo hasn’t confirmed it. Again, the Switch comes out in 14 days.

Why should Nintendo have to confirm something that is spelled out clearly on the console itself?

 

[b00_thegh0st]

Not everyone plays Zelda, and for the people who do play Zelda. After you beat Zelda then what? Will your switch just sit there and wait for the next "quality" game? Variety is a good thing.

MK8D? Splatoon 2?

 

[Muffin Awesome]

Sorry ignorant post here, only read the summary point from OP. Biggest thing for me is, NofA at least, has gone silent in the US post Super Bowl. I have seen more promos and ads for Logan than I have for anything Switch related. This also feels like a soft launch and that a lot of the later features will need to be fleshed out at some point, who knows though. I just want basic system options available at some point in 2017 for this device. It should be able to connect to any internet connection without hassle otherwise that would be a huge dagger for the "take me anywhere component".

 

[Gestault]



Is this trumps doing too? Another terrible work of "journalism " from Polygon.

What would you say if I pointed out that raising questions like this about unclear messages/details helps the company by giving them a prompt to lay out that info for everyone? These aren't unreasonable questions to have for a product launch. There's no way the answers aren't there, so it's just a matter of giving them to PR for their information events.

I'm allergic to this defense force BS. If you bring that up, that's how the convo is gonna go.

How about this: The post came across as vapid and reactive. It tries to dismiss a reasonable premise out-of-hand without any attempt to say why it's unfair/invalid. Saying "this comes up a lot" isn't a meaningful retort to the reality here.

 

[Manmademan]

While true, one can be pretty sure that this will be well supported by Nintendo and Japanese third parties (the 3DS/Vita devs especially). I'm waiting and seeing if there's enough there for more, but for those who love those games it's a pretty safe bet.

Western third party support? That's not coming in any meaninful way. A few token ports that will be nice for people who only own Nintendo or want the games portably. Nintendo has themselves said they can't compete with Sony/MS for core gamers and just aren't going to try.

It's a box for Nintendo games and some niche Japanese stuff, that will benefit from having all those in one box instead of split across console/portable. Anyone that's not enough or is simply not int he market they're chasing, and only time will tell how big that market is for Nintendo.

And this is the problem. Japan is such a small part of the market now that without meaningful 3rd party support from western devs, the console isn't viable in the US and EU.

Even traditionally JP devs like Square and Capcom are retooling classic franchises like FF and Resident Evil to be more in line with US/EU audiences, and this isn't going to slow down. The more that happens, the less JP franchises you're going to see that will be viable to appear on the switch at all.

 

[darkazcura]

Not everyone plays Zelda, and for the people who do play Zelda. After you beat Zelda then what? Will your switch just sit there and wait for the next "quality" game? Variety is a good thing.

Well..Bomberman, 1-2 Switch, and then I'm pretty sure Snipperclips and Fast RMX are coming in March. Then Puyo Puyo Tetris (I believe this April) and MK8 in April. ARMs and Splatoon 2 will carry the summer. Then there are some other games like Snake Pass and Yooka Laylee that I am definitely picking up. I feel pretty set. Zelda is going to take me a pretty long time to complete anyway since I'm a pretty slow gamer.

 

[TalentAlwaysWins]

They didn't lie. That launch line up and the droughts to come after is unacceptable. Also the lack of info from them is a problem. We have to search for leaks to get any real information. Also the almost non existent western 3rd party support is an eye opener. All those ports and no simultaneous multiplats? There have been so many events and conferences like NISA for example didn't even announce 1 Switch game after all that talk? 💀

 

[jax]

What would you say if I pointed out that raising questions like this about unclear messages/details helps the company by giving them a prompt to lay out that info for everyone? These aren't unreasonable questions to have for a product launch. There's no way the answers aren't there, so it's just a matter of giving them to PR for their information events.

Polygon isn't prompting anyone to do anything. I'm sure Nintendo was already planning on going over these details before the launch.

 

[InfiniteCombo]

Really? I see you on most switch threads trying to call someone out on being part of the defense like you're on some anti-fanboi task force lol.

I'm not implying you're a Nintendo hater (don't care if you are), but you're obviously leaving your own impressions in regards to aggression around here.

Now please don't go combing my post history like some online defective looking to catch a perp. I have varying opinions.

You wrote a lot for someone who "doesn't care." I've clearly stated my position, a million times: I'm a Nintendo fan that thinks that Nintendo needs to be called out when they have missteps that adversely affect their consumer base. Sony and Microsoft definitely get called out all the time. So why shouldn't Nintendo?

Call me "anti-fanboy" or whatever (followed by a juvenile "LOL"... nice), but yes, I will question people that defend what in a lot of cases is indefensible. Don't like it? Too bad, deal with it. Or add me to your block list if you want to

Nice attempt at snark, but I had *no* intention or desire of looking up your post history, because: (1) I truly don't care, (2) this was between me and Moon in the first place, and I don't recall inviting you

OK, this is probably the last post of this type I'll reply to, because I want to refocus on the actual subject of this thread. Apologies to anyone that felt that my little side discussion with these fine gentlemen (Richie and Moon) was distracting in any way.

 

[sensui-tomo]

MK8D? Splatoon 2?

mk8d comes out a month and 25 days later and i dont think splatoon 2 has a date yet and is only listed as 2017

 

[Oneself]

Start-up that old narrative again. Sure going to help matters a lot!

Constructively talking about what's wrong could help if Nintendo was in any way connected to real life.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Having a job limits the time for hobbies. And when you think about career advancement that limits it further. Once you start paying bills you don't get to buy every game that comes to existence.

Fair enough. I'm a tenured professor so I know all about hard work. I also make decent money and don't have to worry over bills, and have a fair amount of time for hobbies post-tenure. Not having (ever) kids helps, as does having a fiance that works even more than I do and likes her alone time just as much.

I certainly can't keep up with every game I'd like to play, but I'd never be satisfied with just a Nintendo console. That's largely because there's usually only 3-5 games a year they have exclusive that I care about though, so they're very secondary for me. Very different for others who love a majority of their types of games and the Japanese exclusives they need.

In general I buy and play 1 long game (40+ hours) or 2 or 3 shorter ones a month. I have a PS4 Pro and gaming PC, and that mostly keeps me busy. I don't need a Nintendo console to have enough to play, but I like to have one to add some variety and play the few exclusives I love. That's not enough for me to buy day one, especially since I want to play Horizon and Mass Effect (and maybe Persona 5) more than Zelda anyway. So I'll wait a while before buying and to make sure I really want one.

 

[13ruce]

Well their marketing though is a huge step up.

 

[de_reddy]

Having a Wii U since day one is exactly what me convinced to buy the Switch day one. Nintendo just makes the most polished singleplayer experiences that make me feel like no other software developer ever can. I really don't care about friend codes, UI, online structure. And the ones present on the Wii U are more than enough for me.

But every other day some journalist, forum poster, blogger tells me I have to feel bad for things that aren't there. Making comparisons or reasonings that are not relevant or simply wrong. But these things aren't related to the real Nintendo magic at all. And if you even dare to say something against them, you're the mindless Nintendo Defense for that can't think for themselves.

Please...

 

[The Adder]

They didn't lie. That launch line up and the droughts to come after is unacceptable.

What drought?

 

[axisofweevils]

To the people with the posts comparing the launch games with the PS4 and Xbox one's even if you think those systems had bad launch games. That doesn't mean it's okay for the switch to have bad launch games as well.

It has the new Zelda - that immediately makes it 1000x better than any other recent system launch.

 

[TalentAlwaysWins]

What drought?

ARMS is the next big game in the spring? Splatoon 2 (which I don't care about but it's a sequel) is in summer. Is there something I'm missing? None of those even have dates.

It has the new Zelda - that immediately makes it 1000x better than any other recent system launch.

And after people beat it in a week or two then what?

 

[Deleted member 752119]

And this is the problem. Japan is such a small part of the market now that without meaningful 3rd party support from western devs, the console isn't viable in the US and EU.

Even traditionally JP devs like Square and Capcom are retooling classic franchises like FF and Resident Evil to be more in line with US/EU audiences, and this isn't going to slow down. The more that happens, the less JP franchises you're going to see that will be viable to appear on the switch at all.

I do agree. I also agree with Nintendo that they've just been too out of touch with the western gaming market for too long to be competitive there. They also aren't going to get western exclusives outside of moneyhatting them or buying up western devs.

Getting ports of western games isn't going to sell many Switches as people already have more powerful platforms to play better versions of those games. The games would sell decent if the hardware base is there I'd guess as theyu're nice for the Nintnedo only crowd that for some reason wants those games but refuses to buy other hardware and for the portable gaming crowd.

The latter is really what Nintendo is banking on. They still sold 60ish million 3DSs. They're hoping to retain as much as that as they can, and also appeal to some of the console only crowd with the dock feature. Personally, my guess is they'll do 40-50 million, more if they branch out with cheaper portable only and console only models in a couple of years to re-start sales.

Is that enough for them? Only they can say. With their crazy high attach rates for first party games, and other revenue streams like Amiibo, DLC, theme parks, licensing IP for shows/movies etc. they maybe fine just having their big niche and not worrying about how many consoles Sony is selling.

 

[Otnopolit]

There's a big difference between having an archaic online system and an under-marketed newer one.

 

[Jimmyfenix]

It has the new Zelda - that immediately makes it 1000x better than any other recent system launch.

What if Zelda ends up being a bad game?