entremet
Member
Pretty sure it got a DVD release.
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65% Gross Racist Dad Joke, 35% Spy Shit, 5% PaxtonTrue Lies: Cameron's Worst Film
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
- Start date
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PhoncipleBone
Banned
But not anamorphic widescreen. Just ole letterbox.
Messofanego
Banned
You'll still see plenty of people who would pine for those times to come back and for none of the progress to happen because it's too PC culture or whatever garbage because people other white men are allowed voices. Some people don't want to leave the regressive 90s behind.
MilkyJoe
Member
How much?!
MilkyJoe
Member
£3
Edit, oh... I see.
Yeah 6 quid on marketplace, get that one...
Yeah it's total tripe, I cannot believe they are making more. That ship has truly sailed
moondoggerr
Banned
What kind of sick bitch takes the ice cube trays out of the refrigerator?
If you think Blazing Saddles is racist, you literally do not understand the movie at all.
ryutaro's mama
Member
GeordieMark
Member
The 90s weren't regressive. Not being as progressive as you'd like them to have been doesn't make them regressive. Its not like progress on social issues went backwards.
The Greek Freak
Member
True Lies and Titanic are actually the only Cameron movies I don't actively dislike.
That said I haven't seen it since I was 14ish so I don't remember the racist stuff from it.
If Avatar didn't usher in 3d gimmick garbage for a few years it would just be a forgettable unoriginal movie instead of having the huge love/hate it has.
That said I haven't seen it since I was 14ish so I don't remember the racist stuff from it.
If Avatar didn't usher in 3d gimmick garbage for a few years it would just be a forgettable unoriginal movie instead of having the huge love/hate it has.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Which totally explains why the 2D Blu-ray was the highest selling, even over the 3D version of the same movie.
People went out and bought tons of a movie that they hated or for the 3D gimmick...oh wait.
This GAF bubble reminds me of the "YAAS QUEEN" bubble from last year. So insulated from the outside reality of fact.
Secret Fawful
Member
You have no idea how many times I've heard racist white people praise the movie for "being racist" and not being "politically correct". I've been in many arguments IRL about this.
Also, so many people declaring that Big Trouble in Little China can't possibly be racist, especially a couple specific people, is enough for me to go back and examine it to see if it's racist.
HawksWinStanley
Member
Just saw this again a couple weeks ago. Haven't seen it in years. I really enjoyed it, fun flick.
There are a lot of stereotypes and the villain is on some real Fu Manchu shit. So to some degree it is racist, yes.
For what it's worth, it doesn't really feel mean spirited about it, mostly because the white "main character" has no idea what the hell he's doing the entire movie. It actually feels like we're getting the 2 hour finale of an ongoing TV show where Russell wasn't the main character, but like the recurring comic relief who didn't know what was going on.
Not to derail the current course of this train, but I had to revisit this, as it's a common misconception of the Hans Gruber character.
http://diehard.wikia.com/wiki/Hans_Gruber
Now granted, the rest of the very link that I provided goes on to basically say that Hans was just pretending to be a terrorist to rob a bank:
However, in Hans, we see a fine example of the age-old struggle between intentions and actions/results. Hans believes that he is a thief that is hiding his actions under the guise of a terrorist incident. However, during the course of his and his associates' theft, he:
1. Takes over 30 people hostage, whom he immediately terrorizes with guns firing in the air, physical assaults, and the "we are in control" speech (along with the "you can walk out, or be carried out" speech later).
2. Executes two people personally without hesitation or remorse - one who wouldn't meet his demands and another because a third party wouldn't meet his demands
3. His plan was, quite literally, to kill every hostage by blowing up the roof to hide his escape.
4. Ordered an assault on police that were trying to breach the tower. He did, graciously, only tell his men to "just wound them."
5. He killed two federal agents and a helicopter pilot when he actually blew up the roof early, because of John McClain's interference and evacuation of the hostages. In fact, that evacuation was all that saved the hostages from being blown up directly via the will and actions of Gruber.
6. During all of this, he puts out a communique that demands the release from incarceration of members of other fictitious terrorists/members of "revolutionary groups" (that he had no affiliation with or, in the case of the Asian Dawn, had only heard about on 60 Minutes).
So, you've got a guy who used to be in a known terrorist group, who was expelled from said terrorist group for being too terrorist-y, and who's doing very terrorist-y things while claiming to be a terrorist. At some point, internal intent must take a backseat to action and results. You can't "LOL J/K" on the inside while you're doing some bad shit on the outside.
In my opinion, Hans Gruber was a commentary on the nature of terrorism in general. Terrorists do not see themselves as terrorists - all of what they do is for their goals of a better... whatever. It is people who are impacted by the actions of terrorists and those who observe their action who declare them terrorists. There are plenty of real world examples out there in terms of public perception vs intent in terms of terrorists and terrorism. Just look at how many Americans out there who, to this day, think that 9/11 was an attack because of "hatred to our way of life." Regardless of what the intent was or how wrong the perception might be, 9/11 was still an act of terrorism.
Hans committed terrorist actions, therefore he was a terrorist - regardless of any hidden intentions.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
Prometheus is an unambiguously piece of shit movie with or without an understanding of biology.
Edit: Re: this movie, when you use two of the most culturally loaded descriptors for a movie people basically appreciate as a silly, trifling popcorn flick, it is not exactly weird when those are the things that get focused on.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
For as much shit as I've given Tom Arnold in the thread, this is up there with Paxton's delivery of "I've got a tiny dick! It's pathetic!" for the best line in the movie.
I remember seeing True Lies in the theater as a kid and loved it. To a 9 year-old kid, the stripping scene was more for laughs and a weird feeling I hadn't felt all that much before. The action was great and the jokes didn't seem very heavy-handed. I knew it wasn't as "serious" of a film as other action/spy thrillers -- especially when the whole agency is run by an eye patch-wearing Charlton Heston -- but it never seemed to be too overbearing with its jokes.
I loved it. Dad loved it. We bought the (shitty) DVD when we saw it on sale one time in the store several years later and still enjoyed it then. I think up past that point, I'd watched the movie probably four or five times. What can I say, I was a huge fan of Arnold and those types of flicks.
So browsing the Starz or Encore app a few months ago, I stumbled onto True Lies and decided to watch it with my wife. It had been nearly a decade since I'd last watched it. Holy shit. You hit the nail on the head with how much (bad) comedy there is and how so much of the movie outside of the action setpieces are cringe-worthy. It meanders entirely too much, has some extremely questionable moments and is just not that great for a James Cameron flick.
I never picked up too much on the racism, other than how completely inept the terrorists were in just about every aspect of their mission. I just chalked that up to the comedy aspects. But the misogyny was a bit much and made me feel slightly uncomfortable. Most of it was played off for laughs and even Tom Arnold calls him out for a lot of shit, but it was still a bit over the top.
The action is still better than most movies out today, which is a testament to Cameron's craft. I still prefer it over Avatar, which I just never really cared all that much for. But you're definitely right in that the comedy is extremely weak and pacing was really bad. I still enjoyed (most of) it despite those issues and still consider it better than his last two pieces.
I loved it. Dad loved it. We bought the (shitty) DVD when we saw it on sale one time in the store several years later and still enjoyed it then. I think up past that point, I'd watched the movie probably four or five times. What can I say, I was a huge fan of Arnold and those types of flicks.
So browsing the Starz or Encore app a few months ago, I stumbled onto True Lies and decided to watch it with my wife. It had been nearly a decade since I'd last watched it. Holy shit. You hit the nail on the head with how much (bad) comedy there is and how so much of the movie outside of the action setpieces are cringe-worthy. It meanders entirely too much, has some extremely questionable moments and is just not that great for a James Cameron flick.
I never picked up too much on the racism, other than how completely inept the terrorists were in just about every aspect of their mission. I just chalked that up to the comedy aspects. But the misogyny was a bit much and made me feel slightly uncomfortable. Most of it was played off for laughs and even Tom Arnold calls him out for a lot of shit, but it was still a bit over the top.
The action is still better than most movies out today, which is a testament to Cameron's craft. I still prefer it over Avatar, which I just never really cared all that much for. But you're definitely right in that the comedy is extremely weak and pacing was really bad. I still enjoyed (most of) it despite those issues and still consider it better than his last two pieces.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Nah, that's it exactly.
Your low effort contribution is admirable in the face of my sweaty flailing.
You make "oh yeah, there's some foul shit in this" sound like I put on a (old navy) headband and gym socks and did calisthenics for 15 minutes before centering myself and humming for another ten... and then hitting play.
I have no clue how you pulled something hyperbolic and out-of-the-ordinary out of that.
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
popping in to say this is a totally great movie. arnold is in rare form, and tom arnold is perfectly cast. it is shockingly funny.
what kind of a sick bitch takes the ice cube trays out of the freezer!
what kind of a sick bitch takes the ice cube trays out of the freezer!
BattleMonkey
Member
Still haven't seen any convincing comment on why this movie is racist.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Then you haven't been convinced. You're probably not gonna get much more than what people have already thoroughly explained in the thread via their own words or via links back to the 8-10 critical pieces written both at the film's release and decades later.
If you read all that and are still not convinced, then you're just not convinced.
MilkyJoe
Member
Having just read up on it, the accusations and accounts of protesting its cartoonish** depiction of fanatical, kaffiyeh-clad Arab terrorists.
So in a nutshell, it's monster of the week bad guy, just like it was Russians in the 80s.
**probably referring to the nuts slamming into the Harrier tail, shot...
The Lamonster
Member
Love this movie. It's campy and self-aware. I think the comedy perfectly hits its marks.
OP maybe just grab some popcorn and relax next time you watch an action comedy.
OP maybe just grab some popcorn and relax next time you watch an action comedy.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Sir_Crocodile
Member
I was uncomfortable with the Curtis thing back when it came out, let alone now.
Still the movie has large amounts of cheese and corny fun, and I'd certainly rather watch it then Avatar and Titanic. I think Avatar is Cameron's worse non-piranha film.
Still the movie has large amounts of cheese and corny fun, and I'd certainly rather watch it then Avatar and Titanic. I think Avatar is Cameron's worse non-piranha film.
Turin Turambar
Member
What a great popcorn flick. A true 'minor' classic.
MilkyJoe
Member
It's more Austin Powers than James Bond, it's Basically Dad joke: The Movie
So you'd kind of expect that, or at least accept it as part of the tone, you'd think.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Considering I said it's racist and still somewhat likable anyway (and said the same for Temple of Doom, a film I directly compared this one to) I'm unsure why the people who like it even more than me can't roll with that.
Like, you don't have to deny the flat obviousness of its racism in order to freely enjoy it more than I do. I'm sure that makes it easier, but it doesn't really make any sense, either.
While people are going on about how unconvincing the arguments are (which I don't agree with, but hey) I'm equally as unconvinced by the really thin arguments that there's no racism there at all.
This is a straight-face argument, for example:
"There is a (minor) arab character on the good guy team? This excuses 24 apparently"
Literally appealing to tokenism to get away with a cartoonish negative stereotype being hammered on for the rest of the film.
"but it's a comedy, like you said"
And that specific aspect of the comedy is based almost entirely on just presenting a stereotype and then further cranking it up to 11. None of the members of Crimson Jihad are people. They're cartoons. Even Paxton gets to be a person, as cartoonish as he is.
"But it's just a joke!"
And again, that's okay! But jokes can get criticized too! Jokes are criticized. People are slammed for being not funny on this forum all day. It's not an out of bounds notion to look at something trying to be funny, finding it lacking, and saying so (and maybe even explaining why you thought so).
People are doing it in this thread. To me. While simultaneously arguing that the existence of comedic intent shields any joke from criticism!
And considering the large majority of my criticism is that it's an action/comedy that doesn't do its comedy very well at all (the racism certainly doesn't help here) I'm sorta confused, I guess, as to why "But there's a nice arab guy on Harry's team" is supposed to hold weight, especially in comparison to something like 24.
You don't have to work so hard (I mean, some of you aren't really working hard at all, and are oddly proud of the lack of thought and/or effort being applied) to handwave racism as un-racism in order to enjoy the film. It's there and you still like the movie.
Guess what: we have that in common. You just like the movie more than I do.
Like, you don't have to deny the flat obviousness of its racism in order to freely enjoy it more than I do. I'm sure that makes it easier, but it doesn't really make any sense, either.
While people are going on about how unconvincing the arguments are (which I don't agree with, but hey) I'm equally as unconvinced by the really thin arguments that there's no racism there at all.
This is a straight-face argument, for example:
"There is a (minor) arab character on the good guy team? This excuses 24 apparently"
Literally appealing to tokenism to get away with a cartoonish negative stereotype being hammered on for the rest of the film.
"but it's a comedy, like you said"
And that specific aspect of the comedy is based almost entirely on just presenting a stereotype and then further cranking it up to 11. None of the members of Crimson Jihad are people. They're cartoons. Even Paxton gets to be a person, as cartoonish as he is.
"But it's just a joke!"
And again, that's okay! But jokes can get criticized too! Jokes are criticized. People are slammed for being not funny on this forum all day. It's not an out of bounds notion to look at something trying to be funny, finding it lacking, and saying so (and maybe even explaining why you thought so).
People are doing it in this thread. To me. While simultaneously arguing that the existence of comedic intent shields any joke from criticism!
And considering the large majority of my criticism is that it's an action/comedy that doesn't do its comedy very well at all (the racism certainly doesn't help here) I'm sorta confused, I guess, as to why "But there's a nice arab guy on Harry's team" is supposed to hold weight, especially in comparison to something like 24.
You don't have to work so hard (I mean, some of you aren't really working hard at all, and are oddly proud of the lack of thought and/or effort being applied) to handwave racism as un-racism in order to enjoy the film. It's there and you still like the movie.
Guess what: we have that in common. You just like the movie more than I do.
Glass Rebel
Member
Alessandro
Member
Preach it brother, true lies is the Nutella of movies. Can't get enough.
Tom Arnold a bro too, he keeps hype up for the sequel every once and then.
So many great flicks, they don't make movies fun to watch like the old nineties early nineties action movies.
Fancy Clown
Member
Yeah bobby please stop thinking so much, wearing hoodies, being a 39 year old millennial, being homophobic (!!), being an oversensitive PC SJW, criticizing jokes, ragging on stereotypes, and/or otherwise pointing out anything you may not have liked about the movie.
Ok there, I've laid out my counter analysis of why True Lies is actually a good movie.
Ok there, I've laid out my counter analysis of why True Lies is actually a good movie.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
It's a guilty pleasure of mine.
It's bad in all the good ways.
It's bad in all the good ways.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
So because this ignorant question was prompted by nothing at all it's stupid?
(Ask questions related to what the person is actually saying, not what you imagine they are saying based on your own flawed assumptions.)
Again, what specific negative stereotypes about arabs are present in the movie? You say they are cartoonish (this could apply to any silly 80s-90s action movie) making the terrorists one dimensional and kinda goofy isn't really racist.
MaddenNFL64
Member
It's a fucking comedy with cheesy jokes, and over the top action.
Plus beautiful women fighting.
A+
Plus beautiful women fighting.
A+
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Again - it's been discussed, referenced, and linked back multiple times in the thread proper.
Read.
FrontalMonk
Banned
Yeah, True Lies is definitely one of those movies I loved when I saw it as a kid, but looking back is pretty problematic, in that same kind of schlocky Temple of Doom sense. Personally I still love the movie, but I think I love it in spite of its faults, not because of them. The whole striptease bit with Jaime Lee Curtis always felt a little weird to me, and while some of the inept terrorist moments were funny as hell (specifically the batteries in the camcorder dying mid-speech), I can totally see the racism there.
Despite its problems though, there were some *great* setpieces, and the buddy cop chemistry of Tom and Arnie were really great, and Paxton of course added that little extra in the middle.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Yep, same, and I think this is most of what Bobby Roberts is saying too.
I'm cracking up at how personally so many people are taking an old movie review.
SomewhatGroovy
Banned
I remember sitting in the theater watching this and thinking: "Man , I don't know what's worse: this or Avatar."
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