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[shintoki]

People think Big Trouble In Little China is racist?

I'm Chinese, I fucking love that movie, and so does every other Chinese friend of mine.

The best part: listening to the characters insult Kurt Russell in Chinese in between lines in English.

If you don't speak Cantonese? Tough shit, you won't get the joke.

When you realise this movie is a merciless parody of the "white man comes to save the ethnics from themselves" movie, it is impossible to see it as racist.

It's like Blazing Saddles. It's a film that wouldn't get made today, but it reverses the tropes you typical expect and is making fun of those stereotypical norms.

 

[Castef]

Terrific movie, still holds up after all this time.

Yup, loved it.

 

[AmaterasuOni]

True Lies is fantastic. Just like with Starship Troopers, people doesn't get its satire and social critcism. Movie is great fun and awesome.

4/5

 

[Bobby Roberts]

True Lies is fantastic. Just like with Starship Troopers, people doesn't get its satire and social critcism.

How is True Lies like Starship Troopers

What satire/social criticism is being essayed in True Lies

The closest thing to "social criticism" in True Lies is maybe the aspects of the film dealing with taking your spouse for granted. But the way it addresses those aspects isn't really what you'd call "satirical."

 

[Fuchsdh]

I love dad jokes, though. *shrug*

I honestly can't remember any of the other stuff you bring up though, so I take your word it's probably somewhere on the spectrum of dated to racist.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I love dad jokes, though. *shrug*

Some of 'em worked alright

 

[SirMossyBloke]

True Lies is an amazing movie. First time I've seen people who don't like it. Gaf can be weird sometimes.

 

[Glass Rebel]

Anybody wanna help me out here

This thread is sorta amazing

There seems to be a very casual dismissal of not just young people, but a dismissal of young people specifically because they might think things that older people didn't think when they were younger people.

It's kind of a weirdly angry conservative streak shot through this thread every couple pages as people blithely assume the 39 year old man who rewatched a movie he saw the second it hit VHS in his teenage years is a "millennial."

It's not that complicated.

People who watched True Lies and liked it back then are protective of the purity of their experience. Pointing out problematic elements in media is seen by these people as a recent phenomenon i.e. perpetuated by young people in the social media age aka Millenials. Someone in 2017 rightfully pointing out that the film was racist in 1994 and is still racist in 2017 (you) is then attacked and called a Millenial because they cannot reconcile that someone in their age bracket might hold such "special snowflake" views.

It all stems from an unwillingness or inability to reflect on the media one consumes beyond whether a setpiece was cool.

in short: old people were a mistake, sorry Bobby.

 

[AmaterasuOni]

How is True Lies like Starship Troopers

What satire/social criticism is being essayed in True Lies

The closest thing to "social criticism" in True Lies is maybe the aspects of the film dealing with taking your spouse for granted. But the way it addresses those aspects isn't really what you'd call "satirical."

It satirizes (spelling?) the whole action genre of that time. It also makes fun of the fans of the genre. Being all "racist" and all the typical stuff. It's basically saying: goddamn you people are stupid if you watch this shit. It's really fun! And cartooney.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

It satirizes (spelling?) the whole action genre of that time. It also makes fun of the fans of the genre. Being all "racist" and all the typical stuff. It's basically saying: goddamn you people are stupid if you watch this shit. It's really fun! And cartooney.

Are you confusing it with Last Action Hero?

True Lies doesn't really do this. It's being self-aware, sure, but it's not really trying to mock its audience for liking action movies.

It's not being "ironically" racist/sexist. It just is those things.

It's not that complicated.

People who watched True Lies and liked it back then are protective of the purity of their experience. Pointing out problematic elements in media is seen by these people as a recent phenomenon i.e. perpetuated by young people in the social media age aka Millenials. Someone in 2017 rightfully pointing out that the film was racist in 1994 and is still racist in 2017 (you) is then attacked and called a Millenial because they cannot reconcile that someone in their age bracket might hold such "special snowflake" views.

It all stems from an unwillingness or inability to reflect on the media one consumes beyond whether a setpiece was cool.

in short: old people were a mistake, sorry Bobby.

It sorta does seem like "millennial" has become, amazingly, some sort of dogwhistle for "SJW." Weird as shit.

 

[Ristifer]

True Lies is amazing. That is all.

 

[AmaterasuOni]

Are you confusing it with Last Action Hero?

True Lies doesn't really do this. It's being self-aware, sure, but it's not really trying to mock its audience for liking action movies.

It's not being "ironically" racist/sexist. It just is those things.

I see it "ironically", I've always seen it like that. To me it's like Robocop or Starship Troopers, it makes fun of the audience who thinks racism is cool and violence is great laughs. I think it's really verhoeven-like.

 

[Skiptastic]

Anybody wanna help me out here

This thread is sorta amazing

There seems to be a very casual dismissal of not just young people, but a dismissal of young people specifically because they might think things that older people didn't think when they were younger people.

It's kind of a weirdly angry conservative streak shot through this thread every couple pages as people blithely assume the 39 year old man who rewatched a movie he saw the second it hit VHS in his teenage years is a "millennial."

Defense mechanism to lazily attack something they enjoy, as if the world cannot exist where a film can be enjoyed and criticized. It's pretty awful to diminish an entire group of people based solely on their age.

Full Disclosure: I am at the top end of the millennial definition (I'm 34).

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I see it "ironically", I've always seen it like that. To me it's like Robocop or Starship Troopers, it makes fun of the audience who thinks racism is cool and violence is great laughs. I think it's really verhoeven-like.

That's not really what Cameron is doing at all though. It's not Verhoeven-like, and he's not mocking his audience. I just can't see that read. Plus, I don't know if Cameron's ever bought into that notion, either. He seems to be a guy that has always tried as hard as he can to connect/relate with the audience. Not fuck with 'em like that.

 

[VeryGooster]

I don't think True Lies is really mocking its audience so much as just being self-aware (a bit) about action tropes and having fun with them but not on that parody level like Last Action Hero. Like the last 45 minutes, hour, of True Lies is just a straight action movie after the dom com plot and the spy stuff intertwine.

True Lies always felt like the least Cameron-esque film to me in a way.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Anybody wanna help me out here

This thread is sorta amazing

There seems to be a very casual dismissal of not just young people, but a dismissal of young people specifically because they might think things that older people didn't think when they were younger people.

It's kind of a weirdly angry conservative streak shot through this thread every couple pages as people blithely assume the 39 year old man who rewatched a movie he saw the second it hit VHS in his teenage years is a "millennial."

It starts to make sense when you realize we are primarily on a video game enthusiast forum. Video Game "culture" is largely defined by insecure man children, raised on marketing that panders to their adolescence, and the majority of the extra-textual "critical analyses" of the medium are written, or performed, in such a way that they're basically just masurtbatory marketing by other fans who really have no experience in literary criticism or other artistic/journalistic backgrounds, such that they might otherwise have allowed them the ability to accept nuanced criticism. Look no further than Pewdiepie threads where any critical evaluations of the guy or his work will lead to hoards of the same responses you see here: "You're just part of the outrage PC culture, they're just jokes" ad nauseum.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

I kinda like the original, though!



So like I said in the big ol' post you quoted on the last page, the presence of a single token good guy (who isn't in the film that much, either) negates the rest of the film's presentation. That's the argument you're going to roll with.

okay.

I would argue that having Arab supervillains is basically immaterial, given the film deals in stereotypes and cliches across the board. Moreover, I am pretty much universally skeptical of "media causes harm by reinforcing stereotypes" types of arguments, given their rhetorical malleability and the inherent censoriousness that has crept into them the past few years.

 

[LakeEarth]

Yeah, True Lies is definitely one of those movies I loved when I saw it as a kid, but looking back is pretty problematic, in that same kind of schlocky Temple of Doom sense. Personally I still love the movie, but I think I love it in spite of its faults, not because of them.

Same here. I re-watched the movie a few years back and forgot how silly it got. It got to the part where he double-headbutts the guard dogs to knock them out, and it suddenly dawned on me what the movie was.

 

[demon]

Anybody wanna help me out here

This thread is sorta amazing

There seems to be a very casual dismissal of not just young people, but a dismissal of young people specifically because they might think things that older people didn't think when they were younger people.

It's kind of a weirdly angry conservative streak shot through this thread every couple pages as people blithely assume the 39 year old man who rewatched a movie he saw the second it hit VHS in his teenage years is a "millennial."

Sounds like something a middle aged millennial would say.

 

[Peltz]

The Rock is better than True Lies.

No way. The Rock sucks and the soundtrack makes it feel like a parody of an action movie.

 

[brandonh83]

It's called ice and it gets a little slick

But seriously the Jamie Lee dance.

 

[Mortimer Brewster]

I don't think True Lies is really mocking its audience so much as just being self-aware (a bit) about action tropes and having fun with them but not on that parody level like Last Action Hero. Like the last 45 minutes, hour, of True Lies is just a straight action movie after the dom com plot and the spy stuff intertwine.

True Lies always felt like the least Cameron-esque film to me in a way.

True Lies was one of Arnold's passion projects that Cameron developed as a favour as a friend and in order to get a project off the ground after Carolco and Spider-Man collapsed. It's also the first film in his unprecedented development deal with Fox.

 

[Staccat0]

True Lies is the film Michael Bay wishes he made.

Holy shit

 

[riotous]

I see it "ironically", I've always seen it like that. To me it's like Robocop or Starship Troopers, it makes fun of the audience who thinks racism is cool and violence is great laughs. I think it's really verhoeven-like.

I really don't think that was the intention. It's just an Arnold movie.

Arnold was self aware of "tough guy" action movie tropes; cheesy one liners and surviving crazy explosions. But if you've seen Collateral Damage or are aware that Arnold is a devout Republican who sees himself as a patriotic immigrant; you know Arnold isn't "self aware" of the racism in his movies. Either is his buddy Stalone.

 

[Pegasus Actual]

Age is just a number Bobby, but the posing for a selfie avatar is millennial through and through!

Seriously though this Gen X and Millennials stuff is some of the silliest and most arbitrary shit. Maybe I feel that way since I'm right on the border, but it just seems like another way to lump people together and label them.

 

[Foggy]

True Lies is definitely revelling in genre tropes and is self-deprecating , but in no way is it satirical in any meaningful way. Its treatment of the villains is so banal, I think it's hard to get worked up over the larger representational implications or even try to subscribe to the idea that their portrayal is subversive.

 

[TBiddy]

Again, how is this a surprise to you.

What's surprising about it.

It's not "mental preparation" even so much as it is just very basic awareness.

I doubt you go into every possible movie, book, or game as a perfectly blank slate in a Zen state of openness. If you've ever remembered a trailer, or a commercial, or a review score before you sat down to watch/read/play, you've done the exact same "mental preparation" you're marveling at right now.

I'm surprised that you're mentally preparing yourself for something in a movie, that might be unpleasant for you.

When I watch a movie, I sit down and start it, like I assume most normal people do.

 

[Lego Boss]

It starts to make sense when you realize we are primarily on a video game enthusiast forum. Video Game "culture" is largely defined by insecure man children, raised on marketing that panders to their adolescence, and the majority of the extra-textual "critical analyses" of the medium are written, or performed, in such a way that they're basically just masurtbatory marketing by other fans who really have no experience in literary criticism or other artistic/journalistic backgrounds, such that they might otherwise have allowed them the ability to accept nuanced criticism. Look no further than Pewdiepie threads where any critical evaluations of the guy or his work will lead to hoards of the same responses you see here: "You're just part of the outrage PC culture, they're just jokes" ad nauseum.

Do you write for Rock Paper Shotgun?

 

[Messofanego]

I see it "ironically", I've always seen it like that. To me it's like Robocop or Starship Troopers, it makes fun of the audience who thinks racism is cool and violence is great laughs. I think it's really verhoeven-like.

What

WHAT

True Lies ain't making fun of people who think racism is cool. You better back this up with a bit more explanation. True Lies doesn't have an anti-violence streak going on. True Lies isn't suddenly akin to a Michael Haneke film, christ.

And to compare True Lies to Verhoeven is ridiculous, just the reach of it. Back in my day, controversial film interpretation had to be backed up with evidence

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I'm surprised that you're mentally preparing yourself for something in a movie, that might be unpleasant for you.

When I watch a movie, I sit down and start it, like I assume most normal people do.

This whole line you're pushing right now, where basic awareness of a thing is now "mental preparation" at a level that confuses you, is weird, dude.

It's weird to suggest knowing a thing about a movie you're going to watch, that having paid attention to it and remembered the things that are in it, is some sort of strenuous mental calisthenics.

I don't get it.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Do you write for Rock Paper Shotgun?

I'm unfamiliar with them lol. This is the second time someone's asked me that on here though weirdly enough.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I'm unfamiliar with them lol. This is the second time someone's asked me that on here though weirdly enough.

It's a pretty damn good outlet.

And that was a pretty damn good post.

 

[methane47]

One of my favorite Arnie movies..

The one liners are great, the action was great, the humor was great... it was great

 

[Lego Boss]

No way. The Rock sucks and the soundtrack makes it feel like a parody of an action movie.

I love the way that all the Bay films of this era (Bad Boys, The Rock) had effectively the same music.

Actually I thought they were the same film, but then realised that Nicholas Cage turned down the opportunity to star in every single film ever made and the Bad Boys took over.

Needs to be a Bad Boys 3 I think.

Edit: Unless there already is one?

 

[Miles Quaritch]

No-one ever talks about the "ass like a ten year old boy" line from Paxton's character.

Who the fuck thibks that when comparing asses.

 

[Megawarrior]

This movie made me take notice of curtis as a child. I wanted to go back and see what else she was in.

 

[NealMcCauley]

Always loved (Tom) Arnold's deadpan "Boy I remember the first time I got shot out of a cannon" after seeing Dushku in a helmet.

This movie made me take notice of curtis as a child. I wanted to go back and see what else she was in.

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