shinra-bansho
Member
Wake me up when Orrin Hatch gives a crap about you trying to hold him accountable for this dying in committee.
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Bernie Sanders To Announce Single-Payer Healthcare Medicare For All Legislation
- Thread starter flkraven
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metalslimer
Member
Yes, we all know. That was when there was the possibility of him voting on actual bill that would take their healthcare away. No one is going to hound republicans for failing to get a bill out of committee. Are we forgetting that the healthcare bill died because it didn't take healthcare away from people fast enough?
Imperfected
Member
Timing matters. Turns out that when everyone is already very intensely talking about health care, that might be the highest-visibility time to propose health care bills.
Who could have known.
shinra-bansho
Member
John Conyers Jr reintroduced his bill this year too...
He has 70-odd cosponsors.
I guess he should have waited a month. And then we'd all be talking about it for sure.
And the House Ways and Means committee will rue the day they let his bill die in committee for like the 17th time.
He has 70-odd cosponsors.
I guess he should have waited a month. And then we'd all be talking about it for sure.
And the House Ways and Means committee will rue the day they let his bill die in committee for like the 17th time.
Yup the problem is just that Bernie is smarter and stronger than Conyers
Thank god Bernie is around to show that amateur neoliberal sellout John Conyers how legislation is really done
boiled goose
good with gravy
It's interesting getting pushback on this from people with clear political insight about how to actually get stuff done.
Losing presidency, both houses, Supreme court, like a thousand seats in state governments.
Sometimes it's time to step aside.
What a complete strawman. So Sanders shouldn't be opportinistic with timing because Conyers has a lower national profile? Wat. Did Sanders oppose Conyers previous effort? Like what are you even arguing here???
Losing presidency, both houses, Supreme court, like a thousand seats in state governments.
Sometimes it's time to step aside.
What a complete strawman. So Sanders shouldn't be opportinistic with timing because Conyers has a lower national profile? Wat. Did Sanders oppose Conyers previous effort? Like what are you even arguing here???
Autoignition
Member
You can't have any sort of discussion about any policy without considering the Republican spin on it. Legislation doesn't exist in a vacuum. Without a Dem president willing to use the bully pulpit to push this thing, it's either dead in committee, thus wasting time, or the GOP will nuke it into orbit with spin if it does somehow make it to the floor.
boiled goose
good with gravy
Using his (smaller) bully pulpit is exactly what Sanders is doing here...
People can listen to his framing and consider what the government should be spending our tax dollars on.
You dont counter spin by agreeing to the spin. You explain why it's dishonest framing and hypocritical.
Autoignition
Member
Sanders doesn't have a bully pulpit.
boiled goose
good with gravy
He doesn't? He gets press now. Him doing this now is more useful than all of his previous attempts when noone knew who he was
He has a considerable audience and pretty high nation wide approval ratings. This is exactly what he should be doing.
Autoignition
Member
No, he doesn't. Him getting press gives him absolutely zero sway over GOP members of congress. And being a Senator, he has no pull with Democratic House members.
boiled goose
good with gravy
Now we are arguing semantics about how much sway qualifies as bully pulpit. Sure a President has more. What High profile Senators say matters too.
A lot? Dont know. Do I want my reps doing this. Hell Yes. You think this is completely useless. I think it's not. That's that I guess.
Autoignition
Member
Not really. The House notoriously hates the Senate. It's not semantics; it's facts of the Capitol. Even if Sanders somehow got every single Dem in the House to push for this (which he won't), McConnell would let it die anyway.
Hell, God Himself could come down from Heaven and proclaim Sanders to be the second coming of Christ and McConnell would still let it die out of spite.
boiled goose
good with gravy
I dont get your argument. So now not even god has a bully pulpit?
metalslimer
Member
Right. I think it's worth it to blow a lot of capital when the tone comes to save lives but the idea that the pearly gates will open and God will descend to lavish this bill with his blessing is our of touch.
It will be an extremely hard fought process that will have to go through the courts when the insurance industry sues the shit out of the government if the red states don't get there first
Autoignition
Member
You're really going to discount everything I've been saying over an obvious joke?
boiled goose
good with gravy
Another lovely beautiful strawman. Has anyone said anything remotely close to that?
Come on now.
It's been.
Glad he did this. Good to shift debate. Etc.
Vs
This is useless.
Your "joke" undercut your own argument. Had to point it out.
Summary
Democrat president could use bully pulpit, but Senator is useless.
Actually, I think high profile Senator can do a bit too.
No, high profile Senator can't. Because actually not even god could?
What?
Who cares? Sanders himself acknowledged that the bill doesn't have the support to pass. He said the Democrats should push for a public option and lowering the Medicare reitirement age. He's putting this proposal out as an end goal. He's also putting it out as something he personally believes would be best for the country, even if others don't. He's willing to comprise while working towards a long term vision that he believes is beneficial but others don't. I think other Democrats could learn from that.
That there are a lot of posters who pay attention to almost nothing in politics except what Bernie Sanders says and does because they believe he's the Socialist Messiah and every other politician is a neoliberal sellout, which wouldn't even be so bad (that is to some degree Bernie's purpose in life) except that they also seem to think that they know way more about politics than anybody else on GAF, to the degree that people who actually agree with their side on a given issue feel like arguing with their terrible posts anyway.
Sorry that wasn't clear!
metalslimer
Member
Well for the most part right now it is useless. You seem to be arguing that because it's Bernie it means more but it really doesn't. I'm fine with him introducing it but it will go as far as any other member which is nowhere
I will very happily eat many crows though!
My republican dad explained to me that the reason we pay so much for prescription drugs is due to hospitals and doctors having to pay off legal fees because people try to sue doctors left and right for anything that goes wrong. I'm democratic and haven't done much research on that issue, but if that argument is true, wouldn't Bernie's argument about comparing the cost of prescription drugs in America to the price in Canada be due to less legal fees that drug companies, hospitals, doctors, etc. are still paying off?
Not really sure what to think on this issue, as much as I like Bernie.
Not really sure what to think on this issue, as much as I like Bernie.
shinra-bansho
Member
Whynotbothgirl.
It's nice he did this. Also useless. Because it will die in committee like countless other bills and his past attempts and that will be the end of it.
Claire McCaskill isn't campaigning on this. Tammy Baldwin isn't. Tester isn't. None of the vulnerable seats are. And none of the GOP targets like Heller will be fought on this.
It's nice he did this. Also useless. Because it will die in committee like countless other bills and his past attempts and that will be the end of it.
Claire McCaskill isn't campaigning on this. Tammy Baldwin isn't. Tester isn't. None of the vulnerable seats are. And none of the GOP targets like Heller will be fought on this.
Wait wait wait...
So now it's Democrats who need to learn how to compromise. From Bernie Sanders...?
Am I missing something here?
My only fear with Bernie pushing this legislation right now is this. There are vulnerable Dems who might not support this legislation. They need to not be targeted if they don't. But, given Bernie's penchant for making enemies out of Dems...
Like is or not Sanders is a high profile Democrat who is also massively popular, even if people don't agree with everything he proposes. So, yeah, him doing something does have outsize impact. I'm sorry that fact vexes some people.
Edit: Yes, royalan. You are missing the fact that in order to compromise you have to have a stated position to begin with.
Edit: Yes, royalan. You are missing the fact that in order to compromise you have to have a stated position to begin with.
Lord_Byron28
Member
Regardless of the likelihood of this going anywhere. The majority here seem to agree that it would be a major step in the right direction for healthcare. I hope everyone here is calling their local representatives to vote for the bill. Even if it doesn't go anywhere we need to make sure that it is known that there are people out there that want single payer.
Autoignition
Member
As mentioned previously in this thread, he's proposed this bill at least four other times. They've all died the same death. At most, this'll get two seconds of attention on cable news tomorrow, and then it'll fade away into the ether. This literally is nothing more than a gigantic waste of time.
Also, Bernie Sanders isn't a Democrat, so there are no "other Democrats" in this equation. If Sanders really wanted to help, he'd focus his efforts first on rallying grassroots efforts to keep Tom Price from gutting funding for the ACA. Nothing is safe yet. We can't try to move forward until our footing is stable first.
I never claimed to be a comedic genius.
boiled goose
good with gravy
It wasn't clear and based on thread posts I don't think that is an accurate characterization at all. Sorry, don't see it at all.
I also think there's also a weird amount of projection and defensiveness in this post. But don't worry, I get it. The election was frustrating.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
It's not really the issue at all. There's a lot of things the country can do but doesn't to lower drug prices, like regulating how much companies can spend, writing price controls, forcing companies to give up their patents to allow other companies to make cheap generics, or using the bargaining power of the enormous pool of people insured by the government. Tort reform is an issue brought up by conservatives so they can point at something without really addressing the real issues.
Kinda hard to have a stated position when you're an entire political party vs one man who's been pushing the same thing for decades. It's almost like this is a complex issue or something.
shinra-bansho
Member
So again, I feel like it needs to be pointed out that the next step in the legislative process is a bill once introduced is referred to an appropriate committee. Where they may choose to hold hearings towards issuing a report. And calling your local representatives, assuming you mean House members would be entirely fruitless because this is the Senate.
People already heard about it because it was widely reported today. He is going to get much more exposure now because he is (a) more well known after the primary and (b) proposing it at a time when healthcare is in the news.
Further, he's already gone to great lengths to defend the ACA since January. He's done a hell of a lot more to defend the bill than many actual Democrats.
Further, he's already gone to great lengths to defend the ACA since January. He's done a hell of a lot more to defend the bill than many actual Democrats.
LegendofJoe
Member
Local representatives as in their US Senators? Because that's who would be voting on this if McConnell loses his mind and allows a floor vote for it.
Pelosi actually talked extensively about the Democratic position on healthcare in her town hall yesterday, including the note that if we want single-payer to pass a critical first step would be getting a single-payer program up and running in a state for the federal government to reference, the way that Obamacare referred to the Massachusetts system.
Unfortunately Bernie Sanders wasn't at Nancy Pelosi's town hall, so I'm guessing some people missed it.
boiled goose
good with gravy
Do your research. Your dad is basically almost entirely wrong. That adds to healthcare costs, not directly drug prices (set by pharma companies largely not hospitals)
I dont think Your dad knows how drugs are made and who sells them.
Also side note, I'm pretty sure I saw Sanders talking about first improving aca as we move towards single payer end goal.
metalslimer
Member
Which democrats haven't fought to protect the 3 ACA
Well political parties can state things through their platforms and messaging. Of course, individual members of the party are to deviate depending on party discipline.
In any case, I was referring to how individual politicians communicate regarding an issue.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
fwiw I'm going to be working with an org advocating Oregon pass single payer this summer so I got you
Not too surprising, really!
boiled goose
good with gravy
Strawman question. That's not what poster said.
Ditto.
You made claim. Find posts from this thread supporting your characterization and I'm happy to concede that your characterization was accurate.
Then there shouldn't be a problem with Bernie proposing this since everyone agrees this is the end goal!
boiled goose
good with gravy
Indeeed, if you read my first post in the thread you'll find it's full of unqualified praise for Bernie for taking this valuable step to keep the party focused on positive policy goals and positioning us effectively for future elections.
Not sure everyone agrees. See thread and Democrats a year ago.
Oh believe me, I know.
sugarhigh4242
Banned
He been featured in several 1-hour televised town halls and debated Ted Cruz on CNN since the election. Plus, the OurRevolution list continues to put out statements, action items, and occasionally video statements from Sanders.
So he's got a bit of a pulpit, I'd say.
You are the real America. Good luck! I look forward to it.
California really ought to be pushing for single payer as well.
sugarhigh4242
Banned
Democrats don't.
Nancy Pelosi told meet the press last year she preferred single payer to the ACA, but this year she opposes it:
CNN said:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/27/politics/nancy-pelosi-bernie-sanders-taxes/
Chuck Schumer was part of the Democratic negotiation of the ACA who proposed to dramatically water down the proposal for a public non-profit health insurance option. Hilariously, this put him to the left of the Democrats who won the issue.
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